here's the MOST LIKELY scenario if Lebron stayed in Cleveland in 2011

[3ba11]

The Cavs would've been league favorites for the 3td straight year - and we know they would've won because no one ever lost as the league favorite for 3 straight years..

Plus they would've had the reputed defense and organic chemistry needed to beat the 1-star Mavs.

After winning the title in 2011, Lebron would've easily recruited all the league's stars for the rest of his career to his organic Cavs ...

So those 8 straight Finals would potentially be CHIPS, because organic champions have higher ceilings/Finals record - 8 chips to match Russell that MJ passed up on by playing baseball... POTENTIALLY...

But instead of potentially passing MJ and Russell, Lebron opted to go 4/10 with hand-picked super-teams and barely met perennial underdog status.

[SATAN]

No Pip No Chip

1-9

[3ba11]

No Pip


would've been more chips and easier chips

that bum made MJ face maximum defensive attention/burden in every series of their career, while everyone else in history had equal-scoring partners to attract equal defensive attention, so they didn't face maximum defensive attention/burden like MJ.

[SATAN]

here's the MOST LIKELY scenario if Jordan never had Pippen as a teammate

https://i1.wp.com/ontapsportsnet.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/DeMar-DeRozan-Bulls.png?resize=1200%2C639&ssl=1

[FireDavidKahn]

Here's what you said about Stanley Johnson


If that jumpshot is for real, then he could be the next Elgin Baylor.. :lol:

[John8204]

If Lebron stays in Cleveland...Dwayne Wade likely brings in Tracy Mcgrady and Amare Stoudemire and that Heat teams wins the chip

Shaq stays in Cleveland and they likely bring in Joe Johnson

[Baller789]

If Lebron stays in Cleveland...Dwayne Wade likely brings in Tracy Mcgrady and Amare Stoudemire and that Heat teams wins the chip

Shaq stays in Cleveland and they likely bring in Joe Johnson

What happens to Lebron?

[John8204]

What happens to Lebron?

I don't think he stays in Cleveland I think he demands a trade after two seasons. I think Boston makes another finals appearance I don't think we get that Brooklyn trade. I think that if he were to be traded it would be to the West and likely to play with Dirk or Paul and the Clippers. And the Knicks and Heat are both going to have cap space and room for stars.

[TheCorporation]

No Pip No Chip

1-9


here's the MOST LIKELY scenario if Jordan never had Pippen as a teammate

https://i1.wp.com/ontapsportsnet.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/DeMar-DeRozan-Bulls.png?resize=1200%2C639&ssl=1

Case CLOSED :roll:

[Baller789]

I don't think he stays in Cleveland I think he demands a trade after two seasons. I think Boston makes another finals appearance I don't think we get that Brooklyn trade. I think that if he were to be traded it would be to the West and likely to play with Dirk or Paul and the Clippers. And the Knicks and Heat are both going to have cap space and room for stars.

Any guess where he lands?

[000]

The Cavs would've been league favorites for the 3td straight year - and we know they would've won because no one ever lost as the league favorite for 3 straight years..

Plus they would've had the reputed defense and organic chemistry needed to beat the 1-star Mavs.

After winning the title in 2011, Lebron would've easily recruited all the league's stars for the rest of his career to his organic Cavs ...

So those 8 straight Finals would potentially be CHIPS, because organic champions have higher ceilings/Finals record - 8 chips to match Russell that MJ passed up on by playing baseball... POTENTIALLY...

But instead of potentially passing MJ and Russell, Lebron opted to go 4/10 with hand-picked super-teams and barely met perennial underdog status.
If Lebron is a fraud who can't carry against good teams or win a Finals with 10+ ppg more than 2nd option (requirements to win with mo williams), how is he going to win a chip with that Cavs squad?

???

[Thenameless]

The Cavs would've been league favorites for the 3td straight year - and we know they would've won because no one ever lost as the league favorite for 3 straight years..

Plus they would've had the reputed defense and organic chemistry needed to beat the 1-star Mavs.

After winning the title in 2011, Lebron would've easily recruited all the league's stars for the rest of his career to his organic Cavs ...

So those 8 straight Finals would potentially be CHIPS, because organic champions have higher ceilings/Finals record - 8 chips to match Russell that MJ passed up on by playing baseball... POTENTIALLY...

But instead of potentially passing MJ and Russell, Lebron opted to go 4/10 with hand-picked super-teams and barely met perennial underdog status.

Be serious man, Lebron ain't winning no 8 Championships in Cleveland. I agree that he would have attracted stars - no doubt. But it still takes time to win. And if Golden State still forms up the way it did, that's one of the best teams of all time.

[3ba11]

If Lebron is a fraud who can't carry against good teams or win a Finals with 10+ ppg more than 2nd option (requirements to win with mo williams), how is he going to win a chip with that Cavs squad?

???


The Cavs would've added an all-star-caliber player for the third straight year in 2011.

But you're right - Lebron never carried the scoring load in the Finals or carried bed-wetting teammates over a top 5 SRS team...

However, with the deepest team in the league, it wouldn't be a carry-job but still an organic chip to build dynasties off of... 12 straight chips potentially from 2011-2022

[000]

The Cavs would've added an all-star-caliber player for the third straight year in 2011.

But you're right - Lebron never carried the scoring load in the Finals or carried bed-wetting teammates over a top 5 SRS team...

However, with the deepest team in the league, it wouldn't be a carry-job but still an organic chip to build dynasties off of... 12 straight chips potentially from 2011-2022
This is what the 2011 Cavs would've been:

PG: Mo Williams (korver all-star 2 years ago)
SG: Anthony Parker/5 ppg Danny Green
SF: Lebron
PF: 35 year old Jamison
C: Ilgauskas in his last season or Shaq in his last season

Which allstar turns this team into a championship team

[Baller789]

This is what the 2011 Cavs would've been:

PG: Mo Williams (korver all-star 2 years ago)
SG: Anthony Parker/5 ppg Danny Green
SF: Lebron
PF: 35 year old Jamison
C: Ilgauskas in his last season or Shaq in his last season

Which allstar turns this team into a championship team

Current Curry perhaps?

[ELITEpower23]

No Pip No Chip

1-9


here's the MOST LIKELY scenario if Jordan never had Pippen as a teammate

https://i1.wp.com/ontapsportsnet.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/DeMar-DeRozan-Bulls.png?resize=1200%2C639&ssl=1


Case CLOSED :roll:

Body bag city :oldlol:

[BigShotBob]

No dip....

No chip....

[John8204]

This is what the 2011 Cavs would've been:

PG: Mo Williams (korver all-star 2 years ago)
SG: Anthony Parker/5 ppg Danny Green
SF: Lebron
PF: 35 year old Jamison
C: Ilgauskas in his last season or Shaq in his last season

Which allstar turns this team into a championship team

Just Dirk really, but I think the best they could have gotten Joe Johnson

[Baller789]

No dip....

No chip....

This.

No dip... No Chip.

He would be a bigger Westbrook.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

would've been more chips and easier chips

that bum made MJ face maximum defensive attention/burden in every series of their career, while everyone else in history had equal-scoring partners to attract equal defensive attention, so they didn't face maximum defensive attention/burden like MJ.

These same "No Pip, No chip" idiots give Lebron a huge pass for his massive fail in the 2007 finals (22 PPG, 35% shooting, 6+ turnovers per game, swept) after 4 full years in the league. BUT, they give Scottie credit for helping Jordan win his first after Scottie was...you guessed it, 4th year in the league.
So either Lebron was just awful in 2007 *or* Scottie didn't help that much in 1991. Pick one.

[Kblaze8855]

and we know they would've won because no one ever lost as the league favorite for 3 straight years..


Thinking basketball(or anything) works that way and convincing anyone you know anything about the game is an amazing combo. People have to look past so much obvious idiocy from this guy to give him any credibility.

Just gonna win the title…..because.

With this line of thinking how did anything new ever happen? Things are only possible in sports when they have already happened….

How did like….the second thing ever happen?

How did the Sonics lose to the 8th seed when it had never happened? How did Jordan lead a dynasty without a HOF center? Nobody ever had.

Only previously observed things are possible right?

What kind of bullshit is…

**** it.

Youre such a chore to even try to read. Some mind bending nonsense is waiting around every corner to spring out and **** my day up. I’m going to bed. It was a mistake to come in here.

[SaintzFury13]

These same "No Pip, No chip" idiots give Lebron a huge pass for his massive fail in the 2007 finals (22 PPG, 35% shooting, 6+ turnovers per game, swept) after 4 full years in the league. BUT, they give Scottie credit for helping Jordan win his first after Scottie was...you guessed it, 4th year in the league.
So either Lebron was just awful in 2007 *or* Scottie didn't help that much in 1991. Pick one.

No one is denying that LeBron was awful in 2007. But to give him shit for playing awful against the Spurs with the team he had is pretty idiotic to say the least.

[John8204]

These same "No Pip, No chip" idiots give Lebron a huge pass for his massive fail in the 2007 finals (22 PPG, 35% shooting, 6+ turnovers per game, swept) after 4 full years in the league. BUT, they give Scottie credit for helping Jordan win his first after Scottie was...you guessed it, 4th year in the league.
So either Lebron was just awful in 2007 *or* Scottie didn't help that much in 1991. Pick one.

Um is this an analogy? Because I don't know who you are comparing who to here? Are you comparing Lebron to Pippen because Pippen won because of Jordan...are you comparing Jordan to Lebron because Lebron never had a Pippen

[dankok8]

No one is denying that LeBron was awful in 2007. But to give him shit for playing awful against the Spurs with the team he had is pretty idiotic to say the least.

To be fair it's not idiotic to criticize how he played. Jordan played on equally putrid rosters his first four or five years with the Bulls and never had a series as bad as Lebron in the 2007 finals.

[jbryan1984]

Honestly, I think it would of stayed the same until Danny Ferry was gone. As a Cavs fan, I almost always felt Ferry did cheap trades. This guy would trade for Ben Wallace, 2 years after his last AS appearance or DPOTY award. He would trade for a 38 year old Shaq or freaking Antawn Jamison (Although Shaq made a little sense because their thinking at the time was someone to combat Howard). No doubt, LeBron deserved better help the first time around. Danny Ferry is good at unloading big contracts and re-building. He is not good at building a contender.

[Baller789]

Um is this an analogy? Because I don't know who you are comparing who to here? Are you comparing Lebron to Pippen because Pippen won because of Jordan...are you comparing Jordan to Lebron because Lebron never had a Pippen

Why would Lebron need a Pippen when he has you?

[John8204]

Why would Lebron need a Pippen when he has you?

So is this the thing with the forum where people make sentences that don't make any sense.

Lebron did help a HS classmate of mine win a title...so that was nice of him.

[Baller789]

So is this the thing with the forum where people make sentences that don't make any sense.

Lebron did help a HS classmate of mine win a title...so that was nice of him.

Your HS classmate is?

[John8204]

Your HS classmate is?

Just some bench player you wouldn't care about.

[Baller789]

Just some bench player you wouldn't care about.

Uh ok :whatever:

[SATAN]

"lEbRoN sHoUlD pLaY mOrE oFf BaLl!

LeBrOn ShOuLd TaKe ChArGe!"

You can't make this shit up. :facepalm

[Baller789]

"lEbRoN sHoUlD pLaY mOrE oFf BaLl!

LeBrOn ShOuLd TaKe ChArGe!"

You can't make this shit up. :facepalm

Mad :lol

Dumb Satan is even OT. :roll:

[Airupthere]

"lEbRoN sHoUlD pLaY mOrE oFf BaLl!

LeBrOn ShOuLd TaKe ChArGe!"

You can't make this shit up. :facepalm

Yes. Sad that lebron cant figure out when to let teammates do their stuff so they can work together as a team and when to take over during crucial moments.

Imagine having a micromanager boss that does everything for the team and claims he has the most output. But upon realizing they still lack total output at the deadline, the team finds him missing, and now having gotten used to the boss ballhogging everything in the first 3 quarters, the team finds themselves ill equipped to take over for the boss that went MIA

[Baller789]

Yes. Sad that lebron cant figure out when to let teammates do their stuff so they can work together as a team and when to take over during crucial moments.

Imagine having a micromanager boss that does everything for the team and claims he has the most output. But upon realizing they still lack total output at the deadline, the team finds him missing, and now having gotten used to the boss ballhogging everything in the first 3 quarters, the team finds themselves ill equipped to take over for the boss that went MIA

The story of PEDron's teams right there...

[warriorfan]

The Cavs would've been league favorites for the 3td straight year - and we know they would've won because no one ever lost as the league favorite for 3 straight years..

Plus they would've had the reputed defense and organic chemistry needed to beat the 1-star Mavs.

After winning the title in 2011, Lebron would've easily recruited all the league's stars for the rest of his career to his organic Cavs ...

So those 8 straight Finals would potentially be CHIPS, because organic champions have higher ceilings/Finals record - 8 chips to match Russell that MJ passed up on by playing baseball... POTENTIALLY...

But instead of potentially passing MJ and Russell, Lebron opted to go 4/10 with hand-picked super-teams and barely met perennial underdog status.

This is all true. I felt the same way all those years ago. I was actually a fan of LeBron and it looked like he was going to do it and become the GOAT. The table was set for him…then he gave up and bailed, didn’t even tell his hometown team what he was gonna do until the last second when it got unveiled during a TV special. He fled to join a player who already won a title in the most dominant fashion plus one of the best young power forwards in the league. While bragging about how they are gonna win 6 and 7+ championships and how it was “going to be easy”. After all this what happens? He chokes and cucks out while getting outscored by Jason Terry in the NBA finals.

Any fan who is not a cuck with low iq knew at that moment…he was not the goat, not the chosen one, just a whiny fraud, not even a real man.

[3ba11]

This is what the 2011 Cavs would've been:

PG: Mo Williams (korver all-star 2 years ago)
SG: Anthony Parker/5 ppg Danny Green
SF: Lebron
PF: 35 year old Jamison
C: Ilgauskas in his last season or Shaq in his last season

Which allstar turns this team into a championship team


Team-hoppers destroy teams - so we don't know what would've happened if Lebron stayed because the 2011 Cavs were destroyed by Lebron's departure and infact lost their entire starting 5 - they lost Mo, Zydrunas, Varejao, Shaq and Delonte - this was 50 ppg and actually more than losing Lebron's 30 ppg... But again, team-hoppers destroy franchises, so the Cavs were gutted in 2011.

Ultimately, we have to look at the historical record... The Cavs were a bummy, 45-win team in 2008 until Mo Williams' spacing effect turned them into 66-win league favorites the following year.. The Cavs' revamped offense wore teams out defensively, so they had less capacity on offense - essentially, the Cavs didn't have to play as well on defense because the opponent was more worn out, and this effect made the Cavs top 5 on both sides of the ball when Mo arrived.

Then the 2010 Cavs added Jamison/Shaq to a 66-win league favorite but lost to a dominant Rondo, who led the underdog Celtics over the Cavs specifically because Lebron averaged 21 on 34% for the last 3 games.

Ultimately, the 09' Cavs had the 3rd ranked defense compared to 19th for the 90' Bulls, while Mo Williams was superior offensively to Pippen across the board (scoring, efficiency, PER, BPM, VORP, WS/48) - this shows that Lebron started with a better team on both sides of the ball, but Jordan still beat him to titles by winning the following year in 91', while Lebron lost again as the favorite in 10' despite adding Jamison/Shaq to a 66-win league favorite.

[000]

Team-hoppers destroy teams - so we don't know what would've happened if Lebron stayed because the 2011 Cavs were destroyed by Lebron's departure and infact lost their entire starting 5 - they lost Mo, Zydrunas, Varejao, Shaq and Delonte - this was 50 ppg and actually more than losing Lebron's 30 ppg... But again, team-hoppers destroy franchises, so the Cavs were gutted in 2011.

Ultimately, we have to look at the historical record... The Cavs were a bummy, 45-win team in 2008 until Mo Williams' spacing effect turned them into 66-win league favorites the following year.. The Cavs' revamped offense wore teams out defensively, so they had less capacity on offense - essentially, the Cavs didn't have to play as well on defense because the opponent was more worn out, and this effect made the Cavs top 5 on both sides of the ball when Mo arrived.

Then the 2010 Cavs added Jamison/Shaq to a 66-win league favorite but lost to a dominant Rondo, who led the underdog Celtics over the Cavs specifically because Lebron averaged 21 on 34% for the last 3 games.

Ultimately, the 09' Cavs had the 3rd ranked defense compared to 19th for the 90' Bulls, while Mo Williams was superior offensively to Pippen across the board (scoring, efficiency, PER, BPM, VORP, WS/48) - this shows that Lebron started with a better team on both sides of the ball, but Jordan still beat him to titles by winning the following year in 91', while Lebron lost again as the favorite in 10' despite adding Jamison/Shaq to a 66-win league favorite.
How is that even a response to what I posted:lol

[000]

This is what the 2011 Cavs would've been:

PG: Mo Williams (korver all-star 2 years ago)
SG: Anthony Parker/5 ppg Danny Green
SF: Lebron
PF: 35 year old Jamison
C: Ilgauskas in his last season or Shaq in his last season

Which allstar turns this team into a championship team
The best guys they could have gotten in free agency were Bosh and Iso Joe as another poster said. I seriously doubt Joe Johnson is the answer here and Bosh is one of the guys Lebron used his Monstar powers on, I mean reduced to spot-up shooter.

Answer: none???

[3ba11]

The best guys they could have gotten in free agency were Bosh and Iso Joe as another poster said. I seriously doubt Joe Johnson is the answer here and Bosh is one of the guys Lebron used his Monstar powers on, I mean reduced to spot-up shooter.

Answer: none???


They didn't need anyone else and would've won off a nearly 10-year organic chemistry and defense, like Dirk did that year, who was carrying "bums" as well.

Unlike the 2011 Heat, the 2011 Cavs would've had the organic chemistry and reputed defense to beat the 1-star Mavs.

Now if they added Bosh at 2nd option, they would have the most talent in the league by far, but that's overkill and not necessary.

[000]

They didn't need anyone else and would've won off a nearly 10-year organic chemistry and defense, like Dirk did that year, who was carrying "bums" as well.

Unlike the 2011 Heat, the 2011 Cavs would've had the organic chemistry and reputed defense to beat the 1-star Mavs.

Now if they added Bosh at 2nd option, they would have the most talent in the league by far, but that's overkill and not necessary.
Nah, I'd say 2009 and 2010 proved fairly conclusively they needed more

[Hey Yo]

Did team hopping Kareem destroy the Lakers?

Walton destroy Boston? Moses destroy Sixers?

[000]

They didn't need anyone else and would've won off a nearly 10-year organic chemistry and defense, like Dirk did that year, who was carrying "bums" as well.

Unlike the 2011 Heat, the 2011 Cavs would've had the organic chemistry and reputed defense to beat the 1-star Mavs.

Now if they added Bosh at 2nd option, they would have the most talent in the league by far, but that's overkill and not necessary.
Think about what a crazy ass argument this is, you (of all people) are sitting here saying that Lebron totally didn't need Wade & Bosh & Kyrie & AD, he could've easily won not 1, not 2, not 3 but 8 with just Mo Williams and 35 year old Jamison. Even the Bronstans usually accept he had to leave Cleveland...

[SaintzFury13]

They didn't need anyone else and would've won off a nearly 10-year organic chemistry and defense, like Dirk did that year, who was carrying "bums" as well.

Dirk didn't do anything of the such. The Mavericks added Tyson Chandler in 2011 via free agency, who was instrumental to providing Dallas with the lockdown paint defense that they desperately needed given that Dirk couldn't fit that role. If it wasn't for Chandler's defense, not only do they not beat Miami, they don't even make the Finals.

[SaintzFury13]

Think about what a crazy ass argument this is, you (of all people) are sitting here saying that Lebron totally didn't need Wade & Bosh & Kyrie & AD, he could've easily won not 1, not 2, not 3 but 8 with just Mo Williams and 35 year old Jamison. Even the Bronstans usually accept he had to leave Cleveland...

Not only this, but now he's shitting on all of his previous arguments again. Either LeBron needed super teams or he didn't. You can't have it both ways.

[Airupthere]

If Lebron never left CLE. I don't think he wins 4 chips. As we are seeing now, he never was capable of creating a winning and sustainable game for himself and his teammates. We look down on his past teammates because not only did they not win, they weren't put in a position to have strong reliable roles in their team. My guess is that bron would have ended up bronballing his teammates if he stayed in CLE. Who knows which players they may have recruited in those years.

[dankok8]

Considering Mo and Varejao both got injured and missed a lot of time in 2011 I don't think the Cavs were likely to win a title. In fact had Lebron stayed in Cleveland, it's very possible he retired ringless. The Cavs would never be bad enough to draft the likes of Kyrie, Wiggins etc. and improve that roster much. Marquee free agents didn't want to come to Cleveland. Perhaps in a few years they unloaded some contract that could chance but they were in a tough situation.

[3ba11]

Dirk didn't do anything of the such. The Mavericks added Tyson Chandler in 2011 via free agency, who was instrumental to providing Dallas with the lockdown paint defense that they desperately needed given that Dirk couldn't fit that role. If it wasn't for Chandler's defense, not only do they not beat Miami, they don't even make the Finals.


The Cavs had the league's best defensive teams and far better than the Mavs.

It's funny because everyone said that MJ, Isiah, Giannis and others couldn't win until they won... Lebron would be the same way.

Ultimately, Dirk waited 10 years to win, so Lebron could've done the same and certainly beaten the 1-star Mavs in 2011 - then Lebron would've recruited all the stars to his organic juggernaut and won many more titles between 2011 and now... more than 4 for sure

[Airupthere]

3ball, if he stayed I dont think Lebron would have won much. What is made evident now even if he had the benefit of winning rings with wade and bosh is that he never can create that competitive team organically and be able to sustain that level for a long period.

[3ba11]

3ball, if he stayed I dont think Lebron would have won much.





I agree, but after winning the 1-star organic ring that was up for grabs in 2011, Lebron would've recruited all the stars and won many more.

And everyone's assumption that a 1-star team with Lebron (and a better team defense) can't beat a 1-star team with Dirk confirms why Lebron is vastly overrated.