The historical record confirms that Lebron's teams underachieve their talent

[3ba11]

From 2010-2016, the preseason favorite turned to Finals underdog or loser - that's hardcore proof that Lebron underachieves the expectation - he turned preseason favorites into underdogs or losers for 7 straight years.

So don't bitch about Lebron's cast because he's always had the most help and the most preseason favorites (talent favorite), but his AAU strategy/ball-dominance simply underachieves the team's talent as the season progresses - for 7 straight years (10-16') his hand-picked favorites turn to underdog or loser, smh

[TheCorporation]

1-9

Also: Merry Xmas Kobestan

[3ba11]

1-9

Also: Merry Xmas Kobestan


There's so much hardcore evidence and proof that Lebron is a fraud and far below the goat standard.

In this case, we know that Lebron is nowhere near goat because he turns talented favorites into losers and underdogs - he couldn't even beat Harden's Nets.. And he turned preseason favorites into losers or underdogs for 7 straight years (2010-2016).. So he's literal trash compared to the goat standard

[TheCorporation]

There's so much hardcore evidence and proof that Lebron is a fraud and far below the goat standard.

In this case, we know that Lebron is nowhere near goat because he turns talented favorites into losers and underdogs - he couldn't even beat Harden's Nets.. And he turned preseason favorites into losers or underdogs for 7 straight years 2010-2016).. He's literal trash compared to the goat standard

Kobe's 12th all time and no amount of shitty, biased novels will change that. Have you accepted this?

[Spurs m8]

3ball with the facts.

Lebron is exposing himself more than ever

[Baller789]

Kobe's 12th all time and no amount of shitty, biased novels will change that. Have you accepted this?

So your only defence of Lebron's failure is to insult other players?
Cool.

[3ba11]

Kobe's 12th all time and no amount of shitty, biased novels will change that. Have you accepted this?


Kobe cleared several required hurdles to be in the goat convo:



1) he proved that he knew how to WIN (organic), while other guys only learned to team-hop

2) He proved that he could defeat maximum defensive attention/burden (average 10 more than teammates in playoffs and Finals while winning chip, aka all eyes on you).. Defeating max defensive attention requires elite jumpshooting skill.

3) He had elite jumpshooting skill and goat pure scoring diversity, so he could fit with any teammate or system to achieve the highest team ceilings/Finals record

[Thenameless]

Kobe cleared several required hurdles to be in the goat convo:



1) he proved that he knew how to WIN (organic), while other guys only learned to team-hop

2) He proved that he could defeat maximum defensive attention/burden (average 10 more than teammates in playoffs and Finals while winning chip, aka all eyes on you).. Defeating max defensive attention requires elite jumpshooting skill.

3) He had elite jumpshooting skill and goat pure scoring diversity, so he could fit with any teammate or system to achieve the highest team ceilings/Finals record

Take this from a Laker fan who's older than you.

1. Is not true. After he got what he wanted when Shaq left, he realized he couldn't win, and whined to be traded. We got lucky that Jerry West helped us out with Gasol.
2. He is an inefficient scorer. Take enough shots, and some will go in.
3. Doesn't matter how you score. Shaq carried the load for the first three.

What I like about Kobe over Lebron is that he did have more of that killer instinct which Lebron lacks. Like Bird and Jordan, he wants that last shot. We all talk about Lebron being bailed out by Ray Allen and AD in last second shots. There were times in the Shaq/Kobe era when it was guys like Horry and Fisher bailing out the team.

[SouBeachTalents]

Kobe cleared several required hurdles to be in the goat convo:



1) he proved that he knew how to WIN (organic), while other guys only learned to team-hop

2) He proved that he could defeat maximum defensive attention/burden (average 10 more than teammates in playoffs and Finals while winning chip, aka all eyes on you).. Defeating max defensive attention requires elite jumpshooting skill.

3) He had elite jumpshooting skill and goat pure scoring diversity, so he could fit with any teammate or system to achieve the highest team ceilings/Finals record
I love how without the slightest bit of irony 3ball claims Kobe “learned to win organically”, but he did so with Shaq, not him, winning their first title together while receiving “max defensive attention”, including outscoring Kobe by a whopping 38-16 in the Finals. And to add insult to injury, he did this while having literally zero “elite jumpshooting skill” :lol

[3ba11]

I love how without the slightest bit of irony 3ball claims Kobe “learned to win organically”, but he did so with Shaq, not him, winning their first title together while receiving “max defensive attention”, including outscoring Kobe by a whopping 38-16 in the Finals. And to add insult to injury, he did this while having literally zero “elite jumpshooting skill” :lol


Kobe won 2 more organic rings with Pau, while facing max defensive attention (carried the scoring load)

Accordingly, similar to Kawhi winning in 2019, Kobe's rings in 09/10 prove that knowledge of how to win (fit best with teammates) IS TRANSFERRABLE - kawhi took organic knowledge to the Raptors, while Kobe used his organic knowledge to win with Pau and a completely new roster...

MJ actually won his 2nd three-peat with a 100% different roster except Pippen (who averaged 17 on 41% for the entire 2nd three-peat playoffs, aka carried).

[SouBeachTalents]

Kobe won 2 more organic rings with Pau, while facing max defensive attention (carried the scoring load)

Accordingly, similar to Kawhi winning in 2019, Kobe's rings in 09/10 prove that knowledge of how to win (fit best with teammates) IS TRANSFERRABLE - kawhi took organic knowledge to the Raptors, while Kobe used his organic knowledge to win with Pau and a completely new roster...

MJ actually won his 2nd three-peat with a 100% different roster except Pippen (who averaged 17 on 41% for the entire 2nd three-peat playoffs, aka carried).
Didn’t address a single thing I said :lol

[Thenameless]

Kobe won 2 more organic rings with Pau, while facing max defensive attention (carried the scoring load)


Stop ducking the fact that it wasn't organic. Once you whine like a little bitch and ask for a trade, you've basically abandoned your team and pussied out. He wanted to take his ball and go home. He wanted Garnett on his team or he wanted to be traded. That's not being organic - either of those solutions is essentially teaming up with other good players in order to win. We were lucky to get Gasol to help Kobe out, just like we were lucky to get AD to help Lebron out. It's a team sport.

[Phoenix]

Accordingly, similar to Kawhi winning in 2019, Kobe's rings in 09/10 prove that knowledge of how to win (fit best with teammates) IS TRANSFERRABLE - kawhi took organic knowledge to the Raptors, while Kobe used his organic knowledge to win with Pau and a completely new roster...



Take a team who won 59 games with the best player being at best top 20ish, replace him with a top 5ish player, and have one of the top 2-3 players in the league(KD) get injured in the finals. 'Organic' knowledge had little to do with the 2019 chip.

[StrongLurk]

OP with another meltdown. Dude is the biggest pu.ssy in ISH's posting history.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Take this from a Laker fan who's older than you.

1. Is not true. After he got what he wanted when Shaq left, he realized he couldn't win, and whined to be traded. We got lucky that Jerry West helped us out with Gasol.
2. He is an inefficient scorer. Take enough shots, and some will go in.
3. Doesn't matter how you score. Shaq carried the load for the first three.

What I like about Kobe over Lebron is that he did have more of that killer instinct which Lebron lacks. Like Bird and Jordan, he wants that last shot. We all talk about Lebron being bailed out by Ray Allen and AD in last second shots. There were times in the Shaq/Kobe era when it was guys like Horry and Fisher bailing out the team.

Agree with every word here as someone who watched the finals in the 80s'. Kobe was a great player, but he did throw a fit after Shaq left. That Gasol trade still stumps many to this day. He was flashy but very inefficient. Still light-years ahead of LBJ from a pure skills perspective, but I view Kobe as about 80% of Michael and a copy/clone. Still 80% of the GOAT is pretty damn good, and he had the same competitive drive (but tinier hands per Phil J.) and just wasn't as good.

[GrayGoat]

No Pip no chip. Pippen was like a Shaq for the perimeter

[kawhileonard2]

We saw this already when he won two bronze medals for America, lost to Dwight Howard with hca and molested a few kids.

[Baller789]

No Pip no chip. Pippen was like a Shaq for the perimeter

Like No Dip... No chip?

Collusion is the real MVP.

[2ball]

We saw this already when he won two bronze medals for America, lost to Dwight Howard with hca and molested a few kids.

Kawhi is like MJ with down syndrome and he still dominated :biggums:

[3ba11]

I love how without the slightest bit of irony 3ball claims Kobe “learned to win organically”, but he did so with Shaq, not him, winning their first title together while receiving “max defensive attention”, including outscoring Kobe by a whopping 38-16 in the Finals. And to add insult to injury, he did this while having literally zero “elite jumpshooting skill” :lol


Kobe was carried in 2000, but that doesn't change the fact that he learned to win organically (fit with teammates/develop chemistry), and therefore didn't need to be a talent-based winner like team-hoppers (who give up on developing a great brand with existing teammates and decide to simply amass enough supporting talent to win via team-hopping/colluding).

Since Kobe learned to win organically (fit with teammates & develop chemistry), he was able to win with good chemistry and relatively less supporting talent, aka Bosh at 2nd option.. edit: I mean Pau.

Ultimately, the facts tell the story - Lebron needed super-teams or 1b's to win, while Kobe won organically while defeating max defensive attention/burden (carried the scoring load)

[lakerstekkenn]

From 2010-2016, the preseason favorite turned to Finals underdog or loser - that's hardcore proof that Lebron underachieves the expectation - he turned preseason favorites into underdogs or losers for 7 straight years.

So don't bitch about Lebron's cast because he's always had the most help and the most preseason favorites (talent favorite), but his AAU strategy/ball-dominance simply underachieves the team's talent as the season progresses - for 7 straight years (10-16') his hand-picked favorites turn to underdog or loser, smh

Because they can't create their own shots, when they are asked to they shot bricks, when James had talent that could create their own offense, they beat a 70 plus win team in Golden State the Lakers two years ago had players that could create their own offense, but this year's Lakers can't create their own offense plus their defense is terrible it's taking too long to teach them correct defense that's what happens when you gut previous championship playoff teams they become lottery teams overnight, unless their All Star players can carry these teams they end up lottery teams, this is what's happening to my Lakers.

[Airupthere]

Because they can't create their own shots, when they are asked to they shot bricks, when James had talent that could create their own offense, they beat a 70 plus win team in Golden State the Lakers two years ago had players that could create their own offense, but this year's Lakers can't create their own offense plus their defense is terrible it's taking too long to teach them correct defense that's what happens when you gut previous championship playoff teams they become lottery teams overnight, unless their All Star players can carry these teams they end up lottery teams, this is what's happening to my Lakers.

Truth. Must be tough for real lakers fans at this point. The only ones rejoicing losses are branstans at this point.

[Hey Yo]

Nothing organic about refusing to play for the team who wants to draft you.

Nothing organic about wanting to play for one team only who were a contender the year before and the 2nd winningest franchise in NBA history.

[3ba11]

Because they can't create their own shots, when they are asked to they shot bricks,

Lebron won when he had equal-scoring partners to attract equal defensive attention, and therefore didn't face maximum defensive attention/burden.. These equal-scoring partners also outplayed league MVP's (his sidekicks outplayed league MVP's in 11' ECF, 16' Finals and 20' WCF), they beat a 70 plus win team in Golden State the Lakers two years ago had players that could create their own offense, but this year's Lakers can't create their own offense plus their defense is terrible it's taking too long to teach them correct defense that's what happens when you gut previous championship playoff teams they become lottery teams overnight, unless their All Star players can carry these teams they end up lottery teams, this is what's happening to my Lakers.


Fixed

AD led the NBA in points and PPG for the 2020 Playoffs (more than Lebron), including a domination of the future league MVP (jokic) in the "real" Finals (WCF).. He turned the lottery Lakers into champs by giving them a #1 defense and dominating the playoffs at the same level as Lebron (equal-scoring partner to attract equal attention).

And Kyrie outplayed the only unanimous league MVP in history - outplaying the league MVP is the most help possible, and only Lebron had this caliber of help (elite 1st option studs to play 2nd and 3rd option in their prime).

So Lebron never carried teams.. Specifically, Lebron can't carry the scoring load on the Finals level or carry bed-wetting teammates over top 5 SRS opponents (no carry-jobs against top teams in 2 decades) because his high scoring is too ball-dominant to beat good teams (09'), or inefficient at the higher jumpshooting volume (15'), or some combination of both.. The inability to carry teams is intertwined with his inability to beat max defensive attention (needs equal-scoring partners).. These less-than-stellar results (inability to carry teams and needing more help to win) stem from 2 skill deficits - lack of elite jumpshooting skill and inability to produce off-ball (which are intertwined of course)

.