Scoring champions if Jordan had never been born

[000]

MJ won from 87-93, then from 96-98

1987: Nique
1988: Nique
1989: Karl Malone
1990: Karl Malone
1991: Karl Malone
1992: Karl Malone
1993: Nique
1996: Hakeem
1997: Karl Malone
1998: Shaq

Adjusted scoring titles:

Karl Malone: 5x
Dominique: 4x
Shaq: 3x
Hakeem: 1x

Thoughts?

[Baller789]

MJ won from 87-93, then from 96-98

1987: Nique
1988: Nique
1989: Karl Malone
1990: Karl Malone
1991: Karl Malone
1992: Karl Malone
1993: Nique
1996: Hakeem
1997: Karl Malone
1998: Shaq

Adjusted scoring titles:

Karl Malone: 5x
Dominique: 4x
Shaq: 3x
Hakeem: 1x

Thoughts?

Malone would probably won at least a chip and would be in the conversation as a top ten player imo.

[000]

Malone would probably won at least a chip and would be in the conversation as a top ten player imo.
He would've also won 3 straight MVP awards from 97-99.

[TheGoatest]

Just confirms the relative weakness of that era, especially at the perimeter positions.

[Spurs m8]

Just confirms the relative weakness of that era, especially at the perimeter positions.

You are a special kind of stupid :cheers:

[HunterSThompson]

Just confirms the relative weakness of that era, especially at the perimeter positions.

defense was actually physical back then so it was more of an inside/out game. if you didn't have a back to the basket game you were a role player or ran off screens. only the absolute top athletic guys freestyle dribbled on the perimeter cause you needed strength and quickness to evade the body/handchecking. a guy like curry back then would get fouled and stripped in 2 seconds and the refs wouldn't call shit cause you had to get shoved on your ass to get a call

[Full Court]

If Jordan hadn't been born......














There would be no Space Jam 2.

[000]

Just confirms the relative weakness of that era, especially at the perimeter positions.
Karl Malone in this alternate reality:

5x scoring titles
3x MVPs in a row
Back-to-back Finals with Jeff Hornacek at 2nd option
1-2 FMVPs
Top 3 in career points
Top 7 in career rebounds
4x all-defense
11x all-nba first team

PS: Wilkins would've won 4x scoring titles like Durant. (though KD will get a 5th this season and possibly a 6th after that)

[HunterSThompson]

If Jordan hadn't been born......



There would be no Space Jam 2.

kobe and lebron probly never exist either. that or they come into the league with way different team oriented philosophies..and the nba stays like a more 80s style offense and the Supreme isolation superstar is probly never born. that or Dominique gets all the love and worship instead

[expansionera]

defense was actually physical back then so it was more of an inside/out game. if you didn't have a back to the basket game you were a role player or ran off screens. only the absolute top athletic guys freestyle dribbled on the perimeter cause you needed strength and quickness to evade the body/handchecking. a guy like curry back then would get fouled and stripped in 2 seconds and the refs wouldn't call shit cause you had to get shoved on your ass to get a call

Is that why a 5’10 160lbs Michael Adams was an all star in that era averaging 28ppg? Is that why Mike Price was multiple times all NBA? Lmao weak era, retards shoving and not being able to play zone is not defense

[TheGoatest]

You are a special kind of stupid :cheers:

Which makes it even more remarkable that someone as "stupid" as me is constantly destroying you in basketball-related arguments. :banana:

[TheCorporation]

Just confirms the relative weakness of that era, especially at the perimeter positions.

[TheGoatest]

Thread adjusted for perimeter scoring champions of the 90s:

1990-91: 34 year-old Bernard King
1991-92: Chris Mullin
1992-93: 33 year-old Dominique Wilkins
1993-94: 34 year-old Dominique Wilkins
1994-95: Sophmore Jamal Mashburn
1995-96: Mitch Richmond
1996-97: Glen Rice
1997-98: Mitch Richmond
1998-99: Allen Iverson
1999-00: Allen Iverson

[TheGoatest]

Why perimeter scorers? Why not all scorers?

To illustrate how weak the perimeter was during the 90s, and anyone worth a damn was a PF/C.

[TheCorporation]

Thread adjusted for perimeter scoring champions of the 90s:

1990-91: 34 year-old Bernard King
1991-92: Chris Mullin
1992-93: 33 year-old Dominique Wilkins
1993-94: 34 year-old Dominique Wilkins
1994-95: Sophmore Jamal Mashburn
1995-96: Mitch Richmond
1996-97: Glen Rice
1997-98: Mitch Richmond
1998-99: Allen Iverson
1999-00: Allen Iverson

That's terribly embarrassing. Jesus what a shitty era for guards :roll:

[000]

To illustrate how weak the perimeter was during the 90s, and anyone worth a damn was a PF/C.

That's terribly embarrassing. Jesus what a shitty era for guards :roll:
Are any of those guys weaker than Jason Terry?

[Gohan]

That's terribly embarrassing. Jesus what a shitty era for guards :roll:

You would have a point if the juggernaut iverson wasnt on the list

[3ba11]

The 90's didn't have today's perimeter-friendly format, so most wings had less offensive opportunity back then, but there were still plenty of elite wing athletes and scorers.

Jordan, Hill, Penny, Drexler, Dominique, Barkley, Larry Johnson, Nance, Kersey, Clifford Robinson, Sean Elliott, Michael Finley, Glenn Robinson, Mashburn, Schrempf, Miller, Jim Jackson, Mason, Isiah Rider, Sprewell, and many more... I missed a lot of them - this was a list off the top of my head

[1987_Lakers]

The 90's didn't have today's perimeter-friendly format, so most wings had less offensive opportunity back then, but there were still plenty of elite wing athletes and scorers.

Jordan, Hill, Penny, Drexler, Dominique, Barkley, Larry Johnson, Nance, Kersey, Clifford Robinson, Sean Elliott, Michael Finley, Glenn Robinson, Mashburn, Schrempf, Miller, Jim Jackson, Mason, Isiah Rider, Sprewell, and many more... I missed a lot of them - this was a list off the top of my head

Now compare that to the perimeter players from the 10's.

LeBron
Harden
Curry
KD
Kawhi
Kobe
Wade
Ginobili
Melo
Parker
PG13
Westbrook
Lillard
Butler
CP3
Klay

And I didn't even mention DeRozan who is probably better than most of the guys you listed. The fact that you named a bunch of borderline All-stars and try to pass it on as impressive is weak. You even tried to pass Barkley as a perimeter player, lol.

[3ba11]

Now compare that to the perimeter players from the 10's.

LeBron
Harden
Curry
KD
Kawhi
Kobe
Wade
Ginobili
Melo
Parker
PG13
Westbrook
Lillard
Butler
CP3
Klay

And I didn't even mention DeRozan who is probably better than most of the guys you listed. The fact that you named a bunch of borderline All-stars and try to pass it on as impressive is weak.

Those guys aren't better than what I listed

And you included short PG's like Lillard

And DeRozan < Bernard King, Dantley or Alex English

Facts.

Heck, even Worthy... Show me where DeRozan was FMVP and scoring leader on B2B champs, including 30 on 62% in WCF

[1987_Lakers]

Those guys aren't better than what I listed

And you included short PG's like Lillard

And DeRozan < Bernard King, Dantley or Alex English

Facts

Damn, so now you are so desperate that you are naming players who peaked in the 80's.

[3ba11]

Damn, so now you are so desperate that you are naming players who peaked in the 80's.


Dominique and Drexler from the 90's (see the 93' 1st Round matchup of Nique vs Pippen) have even greater margins over Derozan than Dantley and company from the 80's... Or Penny and Hill.. Derozan = Glenn Robinson or Mashburn-caliber.. Peak Sean Elliot was probably better in today's era because of the 3ball

[SouBeachTalents]

Those guys aren't better than what I listed

And you included short PG's like Lillard

And DeRozan < Bernard King, Dantley or Alex English

Facts.

Heck, even Worthy... Show me where DeRozan was FMVP and scoring leader on B2B champs, including 30 on 62% in WCF
Why the fck are you naming guys who peaked in the 80's in a discussion about 90's players :oldlol:

Roughly 10 best perimeter players each decade

1990's
Jordan
Drexler
Stockton
Pippen
Payton
Reggie
Hill
Mullin
Wilkins
Richmond

2010's
LeBron
Durant
Curry
Kobe
Kawhi
Wade
CP3
Harden
Westbrook
Lillard

Anyone who can't admit the 2010's was clearly superior is laughably biased

[000]

Why the fck are you naming guys who peaked in the 80's in a discussion about 90's players :oldlol:

Roughly 10 best perimeter players each decade

1990's
Jordan
Drexler
Stockton
Pippen
Payton
Reggie
Hill
Mullin
Wilkins
Richmond

2010's
LeBron
Durant
Curry
Kobe
Kawhi
Wade
CP3
Harden
Westbrook
Lillard

Anyone who can't admit the 2010's was clearly superior is laughably biased

Hello there. What's your opinion on Karl Malone's hypothetical resume:

5x scoring titles
3x MVPs in a row
Back-to-back Finals with Jeff Hornacek at 2nd option
1-2 FMVPs
Top 3 in career points
Top 7 in career rebounds
4x all-defense
11x all-nba first team

[warriorfan]

Lebron has only 3

[000]

Lebron has only 3

Only 3 what?

[3ba11]

Why the fck are you naming guys who peaked in the 80's in a discussion about 90's players :oldlol:

Roughly 10 best perimeter players each decade

1990's
Jordan
Drexler
Stockton
Pippen
Payton
Reggie
Hill
Mullin
Wilkins
Richmond

2010's
LeBron.... Jordan
Durant.... Bird
Curry......
Kobe...... Bird
Kawhi
Wade..... Magic
CP3
Harden
Westbrook
Lillard

Anyone who can't admit the 2010's was clearly superior is laughably biased


^^^ that isn't an accurate list, nor does the perimeter-friendly era show any superiority

If you're going to include guys that only had 1 or 2 years of prime in the 2010's like Kobe or Wade, then you have to include guys like Magic and Bird for the 90's because Magic was runner-up for MVP in 1991 - MJ beat a prime Magic, while Bird was still Bird.

You also didn't include Penny, so when you include Magic, Bird, Penny and then consider that the 90's was an interior game with far superior PF's and centers than today's weak game, while having a NON-perimeter-friendly format - it's no contest - Jordan had the far tougher path, even without considering his own weak cast (6 chips with 1 all-star teammate, while Lebron needed 8 all-star teammates to get 4 colluded garbage chips)

[FKAri]

Only 3 what?

Legs

[000]

Legs
lol

[SouBeachTalents]

^^^ that isn't an accurate list, nor does the perimeter-friendly era show any superiority

If you're going to include guys that only had 1 or 2 years of prime in the 2010's like Kobe or Wade, then you have to include guys like Magic and Bird for the 90's because Magic was runner-up for MVP in 1991 - MJ beat a prime Magic, while Bird was still Bird.

You also didn't include Penny, so when you include Magic, Bird, Penny and then consider that the 90's was an interior game with far superior PF's and centers than today's weak game, while having a NON-perimeter-friendly format - it's no contest - Jordan had the far tougher path, even without considering his own weak cast (6 chips with 1 all-star teammate, while Lebron needed 7 all-star teammates to get 4 colluded garbage chips)
Nice to see you admit Wade was out of his prime by 2011 :lol

[3ba11]

Nice to see you admit Wade was out of his prime by 2011 :lol


In 2012, Wade had a 26 PER and was top 5 in everything (PER, BPM, WS/48, VORP)

Pippen never came anywhere near that at any point in his career.

Only from 2013-2016 did Wade fall to prime Pippen level, which is why you guys bitched about him so much.. that's how I felt about Pippen for his entire career

But at least Wade was a near-equal-scoring partner in 2013 Finals to attract equal defensive attention, so Lebron never defeated maximum defensive attention/burden, while MJ did it 6 times

[SouBeachTalents]

In 2012, Wade had a 26 PER and was top 5 in everything (PER, BPM, WS/48, VORP)

Pippen never came anywhere near that at any point in his career.

Only from 2013-2016 did Wade fall to prime Pippen level, which is why you guys bitched about him so much.. that's how I felt about Pippen for his entire career

But at least Wade was a near-equal-scoring partner in 2013 Finals to attract equal defensive attention, so Lebron never defeated maximum defensive attention/burden, while MJ did it 6 times by always carrying the load/burden
You literally just said Wade was only in his prime in 2010 & 2011.

[3ba11]

You literally just said Wade was only in his prime in 2010 & 2011.


Lebron wanted him to defer in 2012 - that was Wade's transition year between his prime and his pippen-level years (13-16')

[TheCorporation]

Lebron has only 3


Only 3 what?


Legs

:lebronamazed:

[Kawhi_Why_Not]

Malone would of won a bunch of scoring titles but still never any rings. He would of just found another team to choke against.

He was the James harden of his era

[3ba11]

It's funny watching Jordan attack seams in a paint with 4 defenders, and then marveling at how he'd score in today's paint that have zero defenders on every play:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGsQEB-rl9E&t=134s

[000]

Malone would of won a bunch of scoring titles but still never any rings. He would of just found another team to choke against.

He was the James harden of his era
You think he couldn't have beaten Mourning/Hardaway? He beat Shaq & Hakeem.

[3ba11]

You think he couldn't have beaten Mourning/Hardaway? He beat Shaq & Hakeem.


And Duncan/Popovich/Robinson

Only Kemp really destroyed him but that was 96'

[000]

And Duncan/Popovich/Robinson
Well that was next season. But yeah he got them all in 1998.

[TheCorporation]

It's funny watching Jordan attack seams in a paint with 4 defenders, and then marveling at how he'd score in today's paint that have zero defenders on every play:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGsQEB-rl9E&t=134s

Don't forget there are no more Jeff Hornacek or John Starks types defending the perimeter. Now it's long and strong defenders like:

Butler, George, Kawhi, LeBron, Bridges, Thybulle, Draymond, Klay, Simmons, etc.

All long and strong defenders. No more getting checked by 6'2 midgets with no strength. He'd still do okay tho.

[000]

Don't forget there are no more Jeff Hornacek or John Starks types defending the perimeter. Now it's long and strong defenders like:

Butler, George, Kawhi, LeBron, Bridges, Thybulle, Draymond, Klay, Simmons, etc.

All long and strong defenders. No more getting checked by 6'2 midgets with no strength. He'd still do okay tho.
Kawhi vs Simmons & Butler at the same time:

35 on 63% TS.

Compare to his regular season 27 on worse efficiency.

[TheCorporation]

Kawhi vs Simmons & Butler at the same time:

35 on 63% TS.

Compare to his regular season 27 on worse efficiency.

Kawhi had an exceptional series, it happens. Also don't forget they held DiAngelo Russell to 19 on 36%

[000]

Kawhi had an exceptional series, it happens. Also don't forget they held DiAngelo Russell to 19 on 36%
Wow. DAngelo Russell.

MJ better watch out.:eek:

[Axe]

Lebron has only 3
You have three ashtrays left for new year you mean?