What changed for Karl Malone starting around 96-97 season?

[iamgine]

Suddenly was playing much better than seasons prior at around age 33.

[HylianNightmare]

Probably started sodomizing 12 year olds

[Akeem34TheDream]

@eliteballer We need some Malone pics in this thread

[Johnny32]

weakest era in nba history happened.

[1987_Lakers]

I wouldn't even say he was that much better around '97, guys like Hakeem, Barkley, D-Rob, & Ewing were starting to decline so Malone's season stood out more.

[dankok8]

Malone became an elite passer and a really good defender compared to his younger self. As a scorer Malone definitely peaked around 1990 but in the late 90's he was a better overall player. But yes as 1987_Lakers said, some one his ascension has to do with a few other legends declining. The late 80's and early 90's was an easy era to get overlooked with so many ridiculous players peaking.

[eliteballer]

@eliteballer We need some Malone pics in this thread

He was a lumbering forward reliant on his jump shot with a 4 inch vertical at this stage. Night and day comparison with LeRoid.

[SouBeachTalents]

Malone's 1999 MVP was a total farce. Forget even the 50 game angle, from a production standpoint that was by FAR his worst season in over a decade :lol

[Johnny32]

Malone's 1999 MVP was a total farce. Forget even the 50 game season angle, from a production standpoint it was by FAR his worst season in over a decade :lol

it was a make up for 98. he easily had a better season than mj.

[3ba11]

Suddenly was playing much better than seasons prior at around age 33.


It's called organic winning

Great players like Karl, Hakeem and Dirk figure it - that's how we know that Lebron would've figured it out had he stayed in Cleveland (probably wins the 1-star organic ring that was up for grabs in 2011 with his 3-year-running league favorite).

[SouBeachTalents]

It's called organic winning

Great players like Karl, Hakeem and Dirk figure it - that's how we know that Lebron would've figured it out had he stayed in Cleveland (probably wins the 1-star organic ring that was up for grabs in 2011 with his 3-year-running league favorite).
So now players who never won and often shrunk in the playoffs get the "organic winning" label too :lol

[3ba11]

So now players who never won and often shrunk in the playoffs get the "organic winning" label too :lol


Guys that stuck it and tried to win rings that have real integrity deserve credit

At Malone's peak, his team was destroying everyone, aka Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan, Kemp

Basically beating 3 or 4 Giannis' just to make the Finals.. and every Western contender was like a 10-15 year organic juggernaut (the kind of team that destroys lebron).. 90's West was a bloodbath

[ShawkFactory]

So now players who never won and often shrunk in the playoffs get the "organic winning" label too :lol

.205 career WS/48 in the regular season.

.140 in the playoffs.

[3ba11]

.205 career WS/48 in the regular season.

.140 in the playoffs.


That's because he had to beat 5 Giannis to make the Finals - Hakeem, Robinson, Shaq, Duncan and Kemp... It took him like 15 years to finally do it, at which point he would've been a goat-level champion if not for the actual GOAT

Again, the fact that guys like Hakeem, Dirk, Giannis and Malone eventually figured it out and won organically lets us know that Lebron could've similarly figured it out but he simply bailed and sought the easy route by forming super-teams in a conference that 1-star teams were routinely winning (iverson, dwight, kidd)

[SouBeachTalents]

.205 career WS/48 in the regular season.

.140 in the playoffs.
Regular season
TS%: 58%
PER: 23.9
BPM: 5.1

Playoffs
TS%: 53%
PER: 21.1
BPM: 4.1

Worse across the board in the playoffs + zero titles = Organic winning

[SouBeachTalents]

Again, the fact that guys like Hakeem, Dirk, Giannis and Malone eventually figured it out and won organically lets us know that Lebron would've similarly figured it out and still won at least 4 chips because organic teams win more than colluded ones.
Those guys have 4 titles combined

[3ba11]

Those guys have 4 titles combined


They ran into the GOAT or they didn't play for 20 years like Lebron

Heck, Lebron could've won this season for the Cavs by being their starting PG.. MJ certainly would win with that team - about 4 pippen's on that team

[1987_Lakers]

They ran into the GOAT or they didn't play for 20 years like Lebron

Heck, Lebron would've won this season for the Cavs by being their starting point guard.

You're right. They played close to 70 seasons instead.

[3ba11]

You're right. They played close to 70 seasons instead.


you're right that organic rings are much harder.. so that explains it

i misspoke when i said that organic teams win more rings - they don't because it's harder to win organically in the first place because you have to actually learn how to WIN (not team-hop)...

but once the player wins organically (learns how to win) they can duplicate it over and over - that's the beauty of learning to win..

We saw Kawhi take his organic knowlege to Toronto and win.. We saw MJ return in 1995 to a completely new roster and carry them to another 3-peat (pippen averaged 17 on 40% for the 2nd three-peat playoffs, aka carried)

[L.Kizzle]

He never had any injures until his final season at 42, that's why.

[Johnny32]

but once the player wins organically (learns how to win) they can duplicate it over and over - that's the beauty of learning to win..

in the dino era with limited player movement via free agency this was true. in today's nba it's not.

[3ba11]

in the dino era with limited player movement via free agency this was true. in today's nba it's not.


We saw Kawhi take his organic knowlege to Toronto and ran through that shit conference like butter.. And we saw MJ return in 1995 to a completely new roster and carry them to another 3-peat (pippen averaged 17 on 40% for the 2nd three-peat playoffs, aka carried)

So learning to win happens in any era...

Ultimately, Lebron only knows how to team-hop and doesn't know how to win (organic)..

He never evolved out of offenses that revolve around him, so he never learned to elevate teammates beyond spot-up roles, and therefore never learned how to WIN (organic) - he only learned how to team-hop (talent-based winning), and talent-based winning loses to organic ball movement (lottery record against Spurs, Mavs, Warriors)

[Johnny32]

We saw Kawhi take his organic knowlege to Toronto and win.. And we saw MJ return in 1995 to a completely new roster and carry them to another 3-peat (pippen averaged 17 on 40% for the 2nd three-peat playoffs, aka carried)

So learning to win happens in any era...

and we saw lebron do it in cle in 16 and lal in 20. what we didn't see in the dino era was 2 of the top 3 players in the lg teaming up via free agency to challenge the champs. that was the point.

[3ba11]

and we saw lebron do it in cle in 16 and lal in 20. what we didn't see in the dino era was 2 of the top 3 players in the lg teaming up via free agency to challenge the champs. that was the point.


Lebron's team-hopping simply amasses enough supporting talent to win (talent-based winning), whereas organic winners don't collude to have massive talent advantages and must win with what they have - this means they must develop chemistry and adjust their game to teammates and produce without the offense revolving around them - learning how to win like this requires a lot more skill than simply amassing enough talent to win

[Johnny32]

Lebron's team-hopping simply amasses enough supporting talent to win (talent-based winning), whereas organic winners don't have massive talent advantages and must win via chemistry and adjusting their game to teammates and producing without the offense revolving around them -

you continue to miss the point.

[3ba11]

you continue to miss the point.


You don't seem to understand the difference between talent-based winning (team-hopping/colluding) and organic winning (winning with what you have)

learning to win with what you have = learning to win...

team-hopping = stacking the deck (you didn't learn shit or really accomplish anything)



Btw, god-forbid a player should actually LOSE with one of these colluded super-teams, which Lebron has MOSTLY DONE - he's mostly lost with super-teams (3/7 with super-teams from 11-17'... then he lost by record amount with a veteran champion, 2-star team in 18')

[Johnny32]

but once the player wins organically (learns how to win) they can duplicate it over and over - that's the beauty of learning to win..

once again for the slow kid. this isn't happening in today's highly competitive nba. back in the dino era teams hands were tied on ways to improve the roster of a contending team. now championship teams can be built overnight.

[3ba11]

once again for the slow kid. this isn't happening in today's highly competitive nba. back in the dino era teams hands were tied on ways to improve the roster of a contending team. now championship teams can be built overnight.


Kawhi literally did this in 2019 - he took his knowledge of how to win (organic) to Toronto and sliced through that shit conference of 0-star teams like butter.

And Giannis just won organically in 21', exactly like Jordan did in 91'

[Johnny32]

Kawhi literally did this in 2019 - he took his organic knowledge to Toronto and sliced through that shit conference of 0-star teams like butter.

Giannis just won organically in 21', exactly like Jordan did in 91'

they can't duplicate it over and over is the point you simple minded ****. lol jfc i even bolded it for you.

[3ba11]

they can't duplicate it over and over is the point you simple minded ****. lol jfc i even bolded it for you.


Kawhi just did.

Giannis will win many more rings in his career.

You just have to be THAT GOOD and Lebron never was because his skillset prevents organic winning - his skill restriction to ball-domination imposes spot-up roles that stall young players, thereby needing ready-made stars to win (team-hopping, talent-based winning).

Furthermore, Lebron needs equal-scoring partners to attract equal defensive attention, and therefore never defeated max defensive attention in the Finals.. He's the only guy in history that needed elite 1st option studs to play 2nd and 3rd option because his high scoring is too ball-dominant to beat the best teams.. He isn't enough of a jumpshooter to carry the scoring load against the best teams.. facts

[Hey Yo]

They ran into the GOAT or they didn't play for 20 years like Lebron

Heck, Lebron could've won this season for the Cavs by being their starting PG.. MJ certainly would win with that team - about 4 pippen's on that team

MJ couldnt win shit his 15th season in 19yrs, but you think he could win with the Cavs in his 19th season?