The only help MJ had in 88' was a raw talent like Monk that he turned into a HOF'er

[3ba11]

MJ would've done that with any raw talent that had potential like Monk, Ingram, Hughes or Kuzma.

Meanwhile, Lebron needs ready-made stara and hand-picked league favorites

Lebron's needs far more supporting TALENT to win because his skillset employs inferior STRATEGY (ball-dominance) than MJ's skillset (ball movement)

[coastalmarker99]

MJ would've done that with any raw talent that had potential like Monk, Ingram, Hughes or Kuzma.

Meanwhile, Lebron needs ready-made stara and hand-picked league favorites

Lebron's needs far more supporting TALENT to win because his skillset employs inferior STRATEGY (ball-dominance) than MJ's skillset (ball movement)


Comparing Monk to Pippen is a retarded take 3ball.


Pippen was elite on both sides of the court and was a top ten defender of all-time who was getting paid basically nothing by the Bulls for the entire 1990's

[RRR3]

Comparing Monk to Pippen is a retarded take 3ball.
This is what he does. LeBron isn’t allowed to play with anyone competent, ever. Even if the Lakers didn’t have AD and WB (who’s just a bad player at this point but 3ball pretends he isn’t) would be whining about Monk averaging 21 PPG or whatever he would be averaging as the second option as if he’s some noteworthy player. He whined about LeBron having Mo frigging Williams ffs. So I always find it hilarious he acts like he’s “outraged” because LeBron is playing with other all-stars when he will shit on LeBron for having “too much help” from guys like Mo Williams and Malik Monk

[3ba11]

This is what he does. LeBron isn’t allowed to play with anyone competent, ever. Even if the Lakers didn’t have AD and WB (who’s just a bad player at this point but 3ball pretends he isn’t) would be whining about Monk averaging 21 PPG or whatever he would be averaging as the second option as if he’s some noteworthy player. He whined about LeBron having Mo frigging Williams ffs. So I always find it hilarious he acts like he’s “outraged” because LeBron is playing with other all-stars when he will shit on LeBron for having “too much help” from guys like Mo Williams and Malik Monk


Monk is better than Pippen offensively, yet he's their 4th option after AD, Lebron and Westbrook.

So the issue is that Lebron needs way more help, while Jordan just needed ONE raw talent like Monk.

Furthermore, Mo Williams didn't join a good team in 2008 - they were a bummy, 45-win team that his spacing effect made a league favorite.

The 2009 Cavs had the #3 defense compared to #19 for the 1990 Bulls, while Mo was superior to Pippen offensivelyacross the board (scoring, efficiency, PER, BPM, VORP, WS/48)..

This matters because it means Lebron had a better team on both sides of the ball, yet Jordan beat him to titles by winning the following year in 91', while Lebron lost in 10' despite adding Jamison/Shaq to a 66-win league favorite.

[SpaceJam]

This notion that MJ picked up Scottie Pippen like he didn't get taken 5th overall is hilarious. Like he just went down to the local rec center and said yep you'll do, I'll turn you into a HoF player.

Did MJ improve Scottie's game and had him reach a potential that he would not have hit without defending Michael in practice, absolutely. But let's not act like he was some 2nd round scrub

Also, just for 3ball, why couldn't MJ do that to Larry Hughes in '03?

[3ba11]

This notion that MJ picked up Scottie Pippen like he didn't get taken 5th overall is hilarious. Like he just went down to the local rec center and said yep you'll do, I'll turn you into a HoF player.

Did MJ improve Scottie's game and had him reach a potential that he would not have hit without defending Michael in practice, absolutely. But let's not act like he was some 2nd round scrub

Also, just for 3ball, why couldn't MJ do that to Larry Hughes in '03?


Did you know that Horace Grant had an identical twin brother named Harvey that peaked at a higher level than Horace in the NBA?

That's the difference between playing with MJ (6-time champion and household name), and not playing with him (Harvey).

Ultimately, Pippen was a 7 ppg rookie that needed a truckload of development and would've been just another athlete if he never played with Jordan.. Jordan's off-ball game simply elevates ball-handlers like Ingram, Pippen, Monk, Kuzma and Hughes..

[TheGoatest]

LeBron with a supporting cast that was able to win 55 games without him = 82-0 season

[RRR3]

Did you know that Horace Grant had an identical twin brother named Harvey that peaked at a higher level than Horace in the NBA?

That's the difference between playing with MJ (6-time champion and household name), and not playing with him (Harvey).

Ultimately, Pippen was a 7 ppg rookie that needed a truckload of development and would've been just another athlete if he never played with Jordan.. Jordan's off-ball game simply elevates ball-handlers like Ingram, Pippen, Monk, Kuzma and Hughes..
No, because this never happened. Lol at Kuzma being a ball handler. Watch him play you ****ing tard

[SpaceJam]

Did you know that Horace Grant had an identical twin brother named Harvey that peaked at a higher level than Horace in the NBA?

That's the difference between playing with MJ (6-time champion and household name), and not playing with him (Harvey).

Ultimately, Pippen was a 7 ppg rookie that needed a truckload of development and would've been just another athlete if he never played with Jordan.. Jordan's off-ball game simply elevates ball-handlers like Ingram, Pippen, Monk, Kuzma and Hughes..

What. :oldlol:

Also, just for 3ball, why couldn't MJ do that to Larry Hughes in '03?

[SATAN]

Horace Grant could finally be his true all star caliber self after Mikey left to pursue being bad at baseball.

[SATAN]

Not to mention raw talent BJ Armstrong btw.

[TheGoatest]

Horace Grant could finally be his true all star caliber self after Mikey left to pursue being bad at baseball.

Moron OP once said that the all-star and 4 x all-defender Horace Grant was an inferior player than Tristan Thompson. :roll:

[RRR3]

Moron OP once said that the all-star and 4 x all-defender Horace Grant was an inferior player than Tristan Thompson. :roll:
It’s honestly incredible how stupid he is. How does he manage to even use the internet?

[expansionera]

So why didn’t he turn BJ Armstrong until a Hall of Famer? He certainly played at an all star level (along with Horace Grant) when Jordan left, as did Grant.

Jordan turns all star players such as Harper, Grant, Rodman, and Armstrong into defensive role players and spot up shooters

[AussieSteve]

Did you know that Horace Grant had an identical twin brother named Harvey that peaked at a higher level than Horace in the NBA?



Wierd how they listed as identical twins but Harvey was two inches shorter and 20lb lighter.

Anyway. Harvey peaked at 3ppg higher than Horace on way less efficiency, on 20-30 win teams. Horace averaged more rebounds, assists, steals, blocks and was All D. In other words, your an idiot, you have no credibility and no one takes you seriously.

[ShawkFactory]

Jordan played with Hughes. And “diminished” him too.

[Johnny32]

jordone would turn monk into steve kerr.

[StrongLurk]

It's pretty wild how little shame OP has. He is broadcasting his massive insecurities and misery daily for the past decade (yes that's right, at least ten years of the same shit) on basketball internet forums...and not once has he stepped back and evaluated his problems. It's crazy how little perspective OP has, like seriously go outside and camp in the wilderness for a week or for fuc.ks sake go see a therapist.

[tontoz]

OP needs a job :lol

[SouBeachTalents]

LeBron’s got this dude making threads about Malik Monk at 4:30 in the morning. Completely shook :lol

[sdot_thadon]

What. :oldlol:

Also, just for 3ball, why couldn't MJ do that to Larry Hughes in '03?

Yeah, I've always asked this same question. If he was capable of "making" a Pippen caliber player, why couldn't he ever make another one?

[Ne 1]

I always hear you say how MJ developed guys, but then later on when people give MJ’s teammates credit, we're told by those same ppl that MJ didn’t play with any real stars and his teammates weren't all that great and all the other jabs. So if he had marginal help, why didn't Jordan develop anyone into stars?

[Ne 1]

Don’t you say that the ‘90s Bulls were built "organically", so in that case, MJ had a stable full of Monk's that he could've made into HOFers. I guess Oakley and Grant weren't worthy? lol

[3ba11]

No, because this never happened.





Harvey was Horace's brother that peaked at 19 ppg - he was considered better than Horace during the 1st three-peat specifically, where he averaged 18/7 compared to 12/9 for Horace.. I'm not making this up - Harvey was considered better from 91-93'.

Horace was just a dunker, while Harvey had scoring ability.. But again, Horace played with MJ and Harvey didn't.. It's often joked about in interviews with Horace.. Let me know if you need links - I'll get em'

[Full Court]

jordone would turn monk into steve kerr.

Yes he would. And win three straight titles with him.

How's Brony doing with Monk?

[3ba11]

Lol at Kuzma being a ball handler. Watch him play you ****ing tard





Lebron destroys spotty-shooting ball-handlers (Wade, Ingram, Hughes) and also scoring forwards (Jamison, Love, Bosh, Kuzma)

Isn't it annoying that none of this is an "argument" - it's the historical record - Lebron lowers the assists of teammates and increases their assisted rate, so he turns them into play-finishers (reduces them).. He can't elevate them by standing in the corner and playing the "shooter" role himself.

Lower teammate assists equals low TEAM assists and a brand that struggles on the championship level..

[imdaman99]

You know a young building team has already given up on Monk right? And guess who of all people is the owner of the team that GAVE UP on him? Do you remember the owner slapping Monk because one of his boneheaded plays at the end of the game? Hello? Is this thing on?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6j9yN9tsR4

[3ba11]

You know a young building team has already given up on Monk right? And guess who of all people is the owner of the team that GAVE UP on him? Do you remember the owner slapping Monk because one of his boneheaded plays at the end of the game? Hello? Is this thing on?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6j9yN9tsR4


They simply cleared out the backcourt for LaMelo, which will prove a BIG mistake because Monk is coming into his own as I knew he would (I was surprised the last couple years to see him on the bench)

Monk plays like Michael - off-ball with the lean-in tomahawk style/footwork and silky J (with ELEVATION)

[ShawkFactory]

Lebron destroys spotty-shooting ball-handlers (Wade, Ingram, Hughes) and also scoring forwards (Jamison, Love, Bosh, Kuzma)

Isn't it annoying that none of this is an "argument" - it's the historical record - Lebron lowers the assists of teammates and increases their assisted rate, so he turns them into play-finishers (reduces them).. He can't elevate them by standing in the corner and playing the "shooter" role himself.

Lower teammate assists equals low TEAM assists and a brand that struggles on the championship level..

And when he does, as he's done quite a bit this season, you'll say something like he's making his teammates work to get him the ball or some shit.

[Johnny32]

Harvey was Horace's brother that peaked at 19 ppg - he was considered better than Horace during the 1st three-peat specifically, where he averaged 18/7 compared to 12/9 for Horace.. I'm not making this up - Harvey was considered better from 91-93'.

Horace was just a dunker, while Harvey had scoring ability.. But again, Horace played with MJ and Harvey didn't.. It's often joked about in interviews with Horace.. Let me know if you need links - I'll get em'

ho grant made an all star game as soon as ball hog jordone wasn't on the team.

[Phoenix]

Did you know that Horace Grant had an identical twin brother named Harvey that peaked at a higher level than Horace in the NBA?

That's the difference between playing with MJ (6-time champion and household name), and not playing with him (Harvey).

Ultimately, Pippen was a 7 ppg rookie that needed a truckload of development and would've been just another athlete if he never played with Jordan.. Jordan's off-ball game simply elevates ball-handlers like Ingram, Pippen, Monk, Kuzma and Hughes..

Peaked higher as in he scored 18ppg on a team that won 25 games? Don't be fukking stupid, Horace was a better player.

[3ba11]

And when he does, as he's done quite a bit this season, you'll say something like he's making his teammates work to get him the ball or some shit.


No, I literally said he's elevating teammates by providing them spacing and a bailout assist target, while elevating their role to playmaker instead of reducing them to spot-up roles.

But it's just one-off's here and there.

Ultimately, Lebron never evolved out of offenses that revolve around him, so he never learned to elevate teammates beyond spot-up roles, and therefore never learned how to WIN (organic) - he only learned how to team-hop (talent-based winning), and talent-based winning loses to organic ball movement (lottery record against Spurs, Mavs, Warriors)

[3ba11]

Peaked higher as in he scored 18ppg on a team that won 25 games? Don't be fukking stupid, Horace was a better player.


here's Horace Grant saying that he'd be like his no-name brother Harvey Grant (long-time NBA veteran) without MJ:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8_aYOQVWSCY&t=14m42s

[Phoenix]

here's Horace Grant saying that he'd be like his no-name brother Harvey Grant (long-time NBA veteran) without MJ:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8_aYOQVWSCY&t=14m42s

I'm not interested in your bullshit videos. The point wasn't whether Horace benefitted from playing on the Bulls and with MJ. The point was that Harvey Grant wasn't better regardless of where they played respectively.

[Johnny32]

here's Horace Grant saying that he'd be like his no-name brother Harvey Grant (long-time NBA veteran) without MJ:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8_aYOQVWSCY&t=14m42s

ho grant averaged 18-11 on 65% while eliminating jordone's bulls from the playoffs in 95.

[3ba11]

I'm not interested in your bullshit videos. The point wasn't whether Horace benefitted from playing on the Bulls and with MJ. The point was that Harvey Grant wasn't better.


The only reason Horace ever gets talked about is because of MJ - that doesn't make him good or better than his brother Harvey, who was considered better by many

[ShawkFactory]

No, I literally said he's elevating teammates by providing them spacing and a bailout assist target, while elevating their role to playmaker instead of reducing them to spot-up roles.

But it's just one-off's here and there.

Ultimately, Lebron never evolved out of offenses that revolve around him, so he never learned to elevate teammates beyond spot-up roles, and therefore never learned how to WIN (organic) - he only learned how to team-hop (talent-based winning), and talent-based winning loses to organic ball movement (lottery record against Spurs, Mavs, Warriors)

He's taking 4 catch and shoot 3s a game this year, almost 20% of his total volume. 40% of his FGs in general are with zero dribbles.

Just last night 7 of his 12 field goals were assisted.

[Phoenix]

The only reason Horace ever gets talked about is because of MJ - that doesn't make him good or better than his brother Harvey, who was considered better by many

That wasn't my point....again.... you fukking inbred. Playing with MJ or not playing with him has nothing to do with whether Horace was better or worse than Harvey. Harvey scoring 18 a game on 46% on a shitty ass team isn't 'peaking higher' except for dumbasses who reduce everything to mere PPG. Horace peaked at 15/11 and made the all-star team playing next to that 'bum' Pippen with MJ off the team in 94.

[3ba11]

That wasn't my point....again.... you fukking inbred. Playing with MJ or not playing with him has nothing to do with whether Horace was better or worse than Harvey. Harvey scoring 18 a game on 46% on a shitty ass team isn't 'peaking higher' except for dumbasses who reduce everything to mere PPG.


The fact that Horace had a brother of similar caliber that no one ever heard of proves the point I'm making, not yours

[Phoenix]

The fact that Horace had a brother of similar caliber that no one ever heard of proves the point I'm making, not yours

Except people who watched NBA ball back then were aware that Horace had a brother, so your point that 'nobody ever heard of Harvey' is another 'tales from 3balls nut$ack' fable. The fact that you're saying 'many people considered Harvey better' quite literally suggests that people were in fact aware of him. If nobody was aware of him, then how could 'many' say he was better?

[3ba11]

Except people who watched NBA ball back then were aware that Horace had a brother, so your point that 'nobody ever heard of Harvey' is another 'tales from 3balls *******' tale.


Horace is famous and Harvey isn't

Horace would be just like Harvey (unknown) without Mike

You better check - maybe Pippen had a brother in the league too

[Phoenix]

Horace is famous and Harvey isn't

Horace would be just like Harvey (unknown) without Mike

You better check - maybe Pippen had a brother in the league too

Being more famous has nothing to do with who's better. You can keep making that retarded claim till the cows come home. I saw both of them in the early 90's. Horace was better. You're so stupid that on one hand you're saying 'many people considered Harvey better', then on the other hand you're saying 'nobody knew that Horace had a brother'. If you don't see how these statements contradict each other, you're a fukking idiot. Actually there's no 'if' about that.

[RRR3]

He's taking 4 catch and shoot 3s a game this year, almost 20% of his total volume. 40% of his FGs in general are with zero dribbles.

Just last night 7 of his 12 field goals were assisted.
The 3bot had no response for this :yaohappy:

[sdot_thadon]

Harvey was Horace's brother that peaked at 19 ppg - he was considered better than Horace during the 1st three-peat specifically, where he averaged 18/7 compared to 12/9 for Horace.. I'm not making this up - Harvey was considered better from 91-93'.

Horace was just a dunker, while Harvey had scoring ability.. But again, Horace played with MJ and Harvey didn't.. It's often joked about in interviews with Horace.. Let me know if you need links - I'll get em'

Only thing i want to know is why be disingenuous about it if you actually knew about Harvey?

The Real difference between the 2 was fga, something Horace was always upset at during his tenure with the Bulls. Harvey did those numbers as a 2nd.....aaaand a 1st option. Horace would never approach 16 fga playing with Mike, that's just the way things were.

Btw....how many all league teams or allstar teams good ol Harvey make?

[ShawkFactory]

The 3bot had no response for this :yaohappy:

Just to take it one further:

He has scored 38.4% of his baskets without a dribble. That is more than Curry (36.3%), Durant (28.7%), Giannis (22.1%), AND Kawhi from last year (25.8%)

[RRR3]

Just to take it one further:

He has scored 38.4% of his baskets without a dribble. That is more than Curry (36.3%), Durant (28.7%), Giannis (22.1%), AND Kawhi from last year (25.8%)
3bot malfunction! 3bot malfunction! Irrelevant copy paste essay incoming! 89 Pippen! 09 Mo Williams! Error! Error!

[Phoenix]

3bot malfunction! 3bot malfunction! Irrelevant copy paste essay incoming! 89 Pippen! 09 Mo Williams! Error! Error!

And the latest edition, 22 Monk.

[RRR3]

And the latest edition, 22 Monk.
LeBron makes everyone worse but he turned Malik Monk into a better player than Scottie Pippen. Makes sense if you're on PCP I guess.

[Honor Boost]

MJ could shape raw talent from a 5th draft pick into all star. LeBron did it with Kyrie but Kyrie was a #1 pick so MJ develops talent at a better rate.

[Hey Yo]

Harvey was Horace's brother that peaked at 19 ppg - he was considered better than Horace during the 1st three-peat specifically, where he averaged 18/7 compared to 12/9 for Horace.. I'm not making this up - Harvey was considered better from 91-93'.

Horace was just a dunker, while Harvey had scoring ability.. But again, Horace played with MJ and Harvey didn't.. It's often joked about in interviews with Horace.. Let me know if you need links - I'll get em'

Bosh put up 12-9 in the 2013 Finals.

It's settled, Bulls had a 3 headed monster that was a superteam.

[expansionera]

MJ could shape raw talent from a 5th draft pick into all star. LeBron did it with Kyrie but Kyrie was a #1 pick so MJ develops talent at a better rate.

How many titles does James Jones have due to Lebron? Matthew Dellavodova received $60million from the Bucks due to his defense on Curry in the 2016 Finals

When did Jordan ever develop an undrafted player into a legitimate starter? Phil Jackson and Scottie Pippen, however, developed undrafted guard Pete Myers into a starter and won 55 games with him in place of MJ.

Jordan benefited from being developed by Pippen and Phil, not the other way around.

[Phoenix]

LeBron makes everyone worse but he turned Malik Monk into a better player than Scottie Pippen. Makes sense if you're on PCP I guess.

Apparently at 12ppg he's better offensively per 3bot. ISH has descended to the level of allowing morons like this to drive traffic.

[Hey Yo]

You know a young building team has already given up on Monk right? And guess who of all people is the owner of the team that GAVE UP on him? Do you remember the owner slapping Monk because one of his boneheaded plays at the end of the game? Hello? Is this thing on?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6j9yN9tsR4

What a ****ing asshole to embarrass Monk like that. Not once, but twice. Monk should've knocked that ego manic fakkit TFO.

[Honor Boost]

How many titles does James Jones have due to Lebron? Matthew Dellavodova received $60million from the Bucks due to his defense on Curry in the 2016 Finals

When did Jordan ever develop an undrafted player into a legitimate starter? Phil Jackson and Scottie Pippen, however, developed undrafted guard Pete Myers into a starter and won 55 games with him in place of MJ.

Jordan benefited from being developed by Pippen and Phil, not the other way around.

Timofey Mozgov also got his bag of 4 yrs, 64 million

[Honor Boost]

What a ****ing asshole to embarrass Monk like that. Not once, but twice. Monk should've knocked that ego manic fakkit TFO.

MJ was out of pocket with this antics he reminds me of the grumpy grandpa that grew up under different rules and isnt conforming to current living norms. Bad look for MJ here no way about it. Hitting isnt cool especially if youre a leader/in charge.

[SouBeachTalents]

3ball getting his shit pushed in in this thread :lol

[3ba11]

He's taking 4 catch and shoot 3s a game this year, almost 20% of his total volume. 40% of his FGs in general are with zero dribbles.

Just last night 7 of his 12 field goals were assisted.


You seem happy that he's doing anything AT ALL, because those aren't impressive numbers that you've been posting in this post and others.

Lebron holds the ball for 6 and a half minutes per game

He lacks the skill (elite jumpshooting skill and pure, off-the-cuff scoring ability) to rely on quick scores

Most of his scores are lengthy forays or lullaby's, which have poor fits with teammates and employs poor strategy (low ball movement and low team assists), hence the shit record with a damn super-team.

Carry-on

[Magic Is Magic]

Scottie Pippen was nothing majorly special but he became something majorly special. So now you ask, okay then was that Jordan's doing? Yes it was. Was that Pippen's doing? Yes it was. His development was influenced by MJ and Pip and I'm not sure why that is so hard to grasp and process. Pippen was who he was for 24 years, MJ wasn't his dad and raised him up until that point but MJ pushed him enough and showed him greatness to climb a little higher into reaching his potential.

[Axe]

Kobe bryant has never gotten to the finals without useful big men like shaq or gasol.

Anyway, learn how to quit talking about king kong 24/7 already you insufferable asshole. It's already 2022 and you still have mental illness just like many of his stans.

[sdot_thadon]

Damn yall sent him back to the bum-cave in this one.

[SATAN]

Once again, OP gets completely destroyed with ease in his own thread.

You can't make this shit up.

[ShawkFactory]

You seem happy that he's doing anything AT ALL, because those aren't impressive numbers that you've been posting in this post and others.

Lebron holds the ball for 6 and a half minutes per game

He lacks the skill (elite jumpshooting skill and pure, off-the-cuff scoring ability) to rely on quick scores

Most of his scores are lengthy forays or lullaby's, which have poor fits with teammates and employs poor strategy (low ball movement and low team assists), hence the shit record with a damn super-team.

Carry-on

Nope. Just pointing out that you're wrong :confusedshrug:

Those numbers are not impressive but they're better than what..the 3 best players in the league at the moment?

Lebron has a high(ish) TOP because he gets so many touches (3rd in the league), and tends to dribble up court as his teams PG on offense. His time PER touch and dribbles per touch are also below Curry, Durant, and Giannis. Indicating that in the half court the ball sees a lot of different people. Well Russ anyway.

[PP34Deuce]

Lol monk is a talented but inconsistent starter lol

[sdot_thadon]

While you out here bumping and making useless threads....bring your ass back in this one and answer some questions.