California gun control bill would let shooting victims sue firearm manufacturers, sel

[j3lademaster]

https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article257038052.html


California’s homicide rate rose 31% in 2020, according to the California Department of Justice, making it the deadliest year since 2007. Three-quarters of the 2020 homicides involved a firearm.

Read more at: https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article257038052.html#storylink=cpy

Designed to put the responsibility on the sales, but doesn't hurt gun owners.

[Patrick Chewing]

https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article257038052.html



Designed to put the responsibility on the sales, but doesn't hurt gun owners.

:facepalm


Please tell me you don't support this.

[j3lademaster]

:facepalm


Please tell me you don't support this.I'm just posting news and putting a quick blurb on what the bill is supposed to do.

Personally, I don't know enough about the bill to make an informed decision. Like what if you buy a gun in AZ and commit a crime with it in CA? Does CA have the jurisdiction to punish a seller from another state? I don't even know if the scope of this will work out legally. But cities with a high amount of gun violence getting guns out of state IS a problem. A lot of guns used to commit crimes in Chicago are linked to Indiana.

I think I've had this discussion with you before about my beliefs on firearms. I think it's more street culture and inner city poverty which causes fatherless households and not enough positive programs for kids to do after school. NH has the most guns per capita in the US(at least they did a few years back last I checked) and has almost no gun violence. How are they doing it?

But I do believe gun violence is a problem and does need a fix. I just don't know what it is.

[TheCorporation]

Criminals aren't reading the gun laws like "Oh shit, 10-round max in California I better swap this firearm out." Or "Oh shit, I need to get this registered first before using it!" :lol

Also:

https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/38163493.jpg

[Patrick Chewing]

I'm just posting news and putting a quick blurb on what the bill is supposed to do.

Personally, I don't know enough about the bill to make an informed decision. Like what if you buy a gun in AZ and commit a crime with it in CA? Does CA have the jurisdiction to punish a seller from another state? I don't even know if the scope of this will work out legally. But cities with a high amount of gun violence getting guns out of state IS a problem. A lot of guns used to commit crimes in Chicago are linked to Indiana.

I think I've had this discussion with you before about my beliefs on firearms. I think it's more street culture and inner city poverty which causes fatherless households and not enough positive programs for kids to do after school. NH has the most guns per capita in the US(at least they did a few years back last I checked) and has almost no gun violence. How are they doing it?

But I do believe gun violence is a problem and does need a fix. I just don't know what it is.

Punishing the gun manufacturer or the store that sold the gun is the most unethical thing I have ever seen. This is government basically stating, we can't control the mob and the minds of the individual, but we can take down and fine corporations because that's what we're good at. Can you imagine if you're a small Mom and Pop gun store in some small town and you sell a gun to someone who then commits a mass shooting, and then the government starts to come after you?? Your way of life ruined for the actions of another person. Like, how backwards of a society have we become where we shift focus from the actual criminal in these matters, and then shift the focus to the innocent party here.

Gun violence as a whole is down from the 80's and 90's. So crime is down all together. It only spiked in 2020 and 2021 because of weak and ineffective leaders caving to the mob and buying into this notion that the police is the enemy, and that less police on the streets actually equals safer streets. And now we're seeing with our own eyes how wrong they were. Dead wrong.

[tpols]

Punishing the gun manufacturer or the store that sold the gun is the most unethical thing I have ever seen. This is government basically stating, we can't control the mob and the minds of the individual, but we can take down and fine corporations because that's what we're good at. Can you imagine if you're a small Mom and Pop gun store in some small town and you sell a gun to someone who then commits a mass shooting, and then the government starts to come after you?? Your way of life ruined for the actions of another person. Like, how backwards of a society have we become where we shift focus from the actual criminal in these matters, and then shift the focus to the innocent party here.

Gun violence as a whole is down from the 80's and 90's. So crime is down all together. It only spiked in 2020 and 2021 because of weak and ineffective leaders caving to the mob and buying into this notion that the police is the enemy, and that less police on the streets actually equals safer streets. And now we're seeing with our own eyes how wrong they were. Dead wrong.

Yea that's pretty insane. Its probably designed to get less guns in peoples hands in general. People will be scared to sell guns. And you know where that's going...go look at a country like Australia where the guns are almost all gone. They've turned into a full out police state.

[Patrick Chewing]

Yea that's pretty insane. Its probably designed to get less guns in peoples hands in general. People will be scared to sell guns. And you know where that's going...go look at a country like Australia where the guns are almost all gone. They've turned into a full out police state.

Oh without a doubt this is the desired effect. They know exactly what they're doing. If gun stores close up shop so they won't get hounded by the government, then voila, no guns for people to buy. That's how the Liberal mind works to solve crime. We won't address the mental state of these individuals ever, we'll just take away the tools they can use to commit crime.


And sadly, it may not be in the next 25 years or the next 50 years, but as Jordan Peterson so eloquently put it, they will never stop going after what they want and they will never stop pushing you until you give up inch by inch until you have nothing left. They will win.

[bladefd]

It's a bill that has not even passed, has it? States propose many bills, many more get proposed than passed..

[j3lademaster]

It's a bill that has not even passed, has it? States propose many bills, many more get proposed than passed..No, it hasn't been passed yet.

[Patrick Chewing]

It's a bill that has not even passed, has it? States propose many bills, many more get proposed than passed..

Your nonchalantness about these things is what gets me :oldlol:. Deep down inside you know it's a bad and morally wrong idea, but because it's your side that proposed it, you come out with responses like yours.


"It's a bill that has not even passed and probably won't. So what's the big deal guys?? Everyone relax! Many more get proposed than passed. How about that game last night!"


But the reality is, the mere fact that we are having this conversation and the mere fact that something like this is being proposed in the first place by members of government should scare the shit out of you. You should be outraged. You should take a stand against your own party for once. Look at Republicans. They can't get along. There's so much infighting between Republicans right now because not everyone has to agree and bend the knee to the Party. Be a Joe Manchin and Kristen Sinema in a sea of Eric Swallwells.

[j3lademaster]

Oh without a doubt this is the desired effect. They know exactly what they're doing. If gun stores close up shop so they won't get hounded by the government, then voila, no guns for people to buy. That's how the Liberal mind works to solve crime. We won't address the mental state of these individuals ever, we'll just take away the tools they can use to commit crime.


And sadly, it may not be in the next 25 years or the next 50 years, but as Jordan Peterson so eloquently put it, they will never stop going after what they want and they will never stop pushing you until you give up inch by inch until you have nothing left. They will win.Honestly I've only heavily thought about this from a small business standpoint. Gun shops are the last big industry that hasn't been completely taken over by walmart and online shopping. Even when you purchase a gun online you have to have it delivered to a local shop to facilitate the sale and they get an understandable admin fee out of it. The shop I go to is a father and son shop who are good honest people. When I bought my m4 he said he had to order it and told me they can order it for $150 less than what it states online, and will charge me $100 less for that reason(he didn't have to tell me that), so he will charge me just the usual $50 surcharge to for my paperwork. They're not rich people, they work hard and do okay. I know everything they have is poured into that shop so if they lose that they'd lose everything. Little anecdotal reference here, but I'm sure there are thousands of owners out there just like them.

And if you're still wondering about the m4, I ended up insisting on paying him the listed price, since i was expecting to pay that, a shipping fee and the paperwork fee on top of it anyway.

[j3lademaster]

Be a Joe Manchin and Kristen Sinema in a sea of Eric Swallwells.Manchin and Sinema were the fall guys for the Build Back Better bill, they weren't opposing it because they were standing up for their beliefs. Whether you agree with the bill itself or not, it's obvious it's something corporations wouldn't want, so it wasn't going to get passed in the first place. You can tell by Biden's "oh schucks" attitude about it after failing. The bill was carrot on a stick to pander votes.

[bladefd]

Your nonchalantness about these things is what gets me :oldlol:. Deep down inside you know it's a bad and morally wrong idea, but because it's your side that proposed it, you come out with responses like yours.


"It's a bill that has not even passed and probably won't. So what's the big deal guys?? Everyone relax! Many more get proposed than passed. How about that game last night!"


But the reality is, the mere fact that we are having this conversation and the mere fact that something like this is being proposed in the first place by members of government should scare the shit out of you. You should be outraged. You should take a stand against your own party for once. Look at Republicans. They can't get along. There's so much infighting between Republicans right now because not everyone has to agree and bend the knee to the Party. Be a Joe Manchin and Kristen Sinema in a sea of Eric Swallwells.

I have seen many crazy bills get proposed over the years by people from both parties that get tossed out. Just because one person threw out an idea doesn't mean much by itself. It must have majority support before it can be considered seriously. This is a democracy, not Nazi Germany or Roman empire

[j3lademaster]

I have seen many crazy bills get proposed over the years by people from both parties that get tossed out. Just because one person threw out an idea doesn't mean much by itself. It must have majority support before it can be considered seriously. This is a democracy, not Nazi Germany or Roman empire
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-07-29/californians-lose-faith-in-effectiveness-of-gun-control-in-new-poll

The poll found 56% of California voters don't believe that the assault weapons ban law violates the U.S. Constitution

It's an antigun bill in an antigun state, though. California has had a steady increase through the recent years.
https://calmatters.org/explainers/california-gun-laws-policy-explained/

Since 1999, there have been 40 gun restricting laws passed in that state.

[Patrick Chewing]

Honestly I've only heavily thought about this from a small business standpoint. Gun shops are the last big industry that hasn't been completely taken over by walmart and online shopping. Even when you purchase a gun online you have to have it delivered to a local shop to facilitate the sale and they get an understandable admin fee out of it. The shop I go to is a father and son shop who are good honest people. When I bought my m4 he said he had to order it and told me they can order it for $150 less than what it states online, and will charge me $100 less for that reason(he didn't have to tell me that), so he will charge me just the usual $50 surcharge to for my paperwork. They're not rich people, they work hard and do okay. I know everything they have is poured into that shop so if they lose that they'd lose everything. Little anecdotal reference here, but I'm sure there are thousands of owners out there just like them.

And if you're still wondering about the m4, I ended up insisting on paying him the listed price, since i was expecting to pay that, a shipping fee and the paperwork fee on top of it anyway.


And that's the scariest part is that small business cannot survive anymore with the big boys (Walmart, Cabelas, Dick's, etc.) and if the government turns their back on them, that's it. Small business is the backbone of America and the last thing these mom and pop stores need is to be forcefully shut down because of someone's agenda. What's the endgame here?

Good deal on the M4. With our without the carry handle? Easiest way to carry your rifle from position to position.


I am a fan of these too.

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/BPgAAOSw8q9d1v0p/s-l400.jpg

[Patrick Chewing]

I have seen many crazy bills get proposed over the years by people from both parties that get tossed out. Just because one person threw out an idea doesn't mean much by itself. It must have majority support before it can be considered seriously. This is a democracy, not Nazi Germany or Roman empire

And he doubles down.


If you don't see the parallels or see where we're headed and what slippery slope lies ahead, then you're just willfully ignorant. Think about what happened last year. Vaccine mandates for some. Shit would have been unheard of 5-10 years ago. 5-10 years ago you would have said that would have been a crazy proposition. And yet, that is the issue that faces us front and center today.


You're right, this isn't Nazi Germany. But you don't let it become Nazi German either.

[j3lademaster]

And that's the scariest part is that small business cannot survive anymore with the big boys (Walmart, Cabelas, Dick's, etc.) and if the government turns their back on them, that's it. Small business is the backbone of America and the last thing these mom and pop stores need is to be forcefully shut down because of someone's agenda. What's the endgame here?

Good deal on the M4. With our without the carry handle? Easiest way to carry your rifle from position to position.


I am a fan of these too.

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/BPgAAOSw8q9d1v0p/s-l400.jpgNo carry handle at all on mine. I did go quad-rail though. When I have some extra cash lying around I may spring for a scope so naturally get a handle so it can sit higher.

[bladefd]

And he doubles down.


If you don't see the parallels or see where we're headed and what slippery slope lies ahead, then you're just willfully ignorant. Think about what happened last year. Vaccine mandates for some. Shit would have been unheard of 5-10 years ago. 5-10 years ago you would have said that would have been a crazy proposition. And yet, that is the issue that faces us front and center today.


You're right, this isn't Nazi Germany. But you don't let it become Nazi German either.

There will always be legislators proposing bills that might be extreme.

-Representative Lucus Miller in 1893 proposed that USA be renamed "United States of Earth" and be allowed to annex every nation around the world into a single entity of Earth
-Representative Ralph Shortey in 2012 proposed to ban the use of aborted fetuses in food (nobody uses aborted fetuses in food :oldlol: )
-FairTax Act that abolishes the IRS and ends income taxes & other taxes
-North Carolina tried to establish Christianity as state religion.. it's unconstitutional
-Florida legislator wanted to repeal law that banned dwarf-tossing