why has lebron never won without a goat level sidekick or performance by a sidekick

[HunterSThompson]

2012 - Kobe/Jordan level sidekick
2013 - Kobe/Jordan level sidekick
2016 - Kobe/Jordan level performance by a sidekick
2020 - Shaq/Wilt level performance by a sidekick


meanwhile for Kobe


2000 - Shaq level sidekick duh
2001 - Shaq level sidekick duh
2002 - Shaq level sidekick duh
2009 - Derrick Coleman level sidekick
2010 - Derrick Coleman level sidekick


and Jordan

1991 - Shawn Marion level sidekick
1992 - Shawn Marion level sidekick
1993 - Shawn Marion level sidekick
1996 - Paul Millsap level sidekick
1997 - Shawn Marion level sidekick
1998 - Paul Millsap level sidekick

[SouBeachTalents]

Kobe was the sidekick for most of his titles

[SouBeachTalents]

And the audacity to claim 2013 Wade averaging less than 16 ppg was Jordan level :lol Blasphemous

[Dray n Klay]

Lebron won without having any all star teammates in 2016


Has Kobe?

[HunterSThompson]

Kobe was the sidekick for most of his titles

1b for 2 of them. 1a for those 2 vs the best teams

bit we've already went through this.

and regardless Kobe has 2 without a legendary sidekick or legendary sidekick performance

lebron has zero

[HunterSThompson]

Lebron won without having any all star teammates in 2016


Has Kobe?

legendary performance by a sidekick. kyrie was basically kobe/jordan level in the 2016 finals and none of it came off lebrons passing either lmao

[Dray n Klay]

legendary performance by a sidekick. kyrie was basically kobe/jordan level in the 2016 finals :loland none of it came off lebrons passing either lmao

Yet lebron averaged more points, rebounds, assists, stls, blocks and higher FG% than him


So LeBron > > Kobe/Jordan level lol? :oldlol:

[SouBeachTalents]

1b for 2 of them. 1a for those 2 vs the best teams

bit we've already went through this.

and regardless Kobe has 2 without a legendary sidekick or legendary sidekick performance

lebron has zero
That non legendary sidekick outplayed the opposing teams best player in half their series during their title run

[HunterSThompson]

Yet lebron averaged more points, rebounds, assists, stls, blocks and higher FG% than him


So LeBron > > Kobe/Jordan level lol? :oldlol:

all came in garbage time remember




cavs first victory:

0-2 +2 K. Irving makes 2-pt shot from 12 ft
0-4 +2 L. James makes 2-pt shot from 1 ft
0-6 +2 K. Irving makes 2-pt shot from 1 ft
4-13 +2 L. James makes 2-pt shot at rim
4-19 +2 L. James makes 2-pt shot at rim
6-21 +2 K. Irving makes 2-pt shot from 20 ft
8-23 +2 K. Irving makes 2-pt shot from 18 ft
10-25+2 K. Irving makes 2-pt shot from 13 ft
10-30+3 K. Irving makes 3-pt shot from 24 ft
13-33+3 K. Irving makes 3-pt shot from 27 ft

game over... cavs never looked back


----------------------------



cavs 2nd victory tied 61-61 at half time

K. Irving makes 2-pt shot from 1 ft +2 63-61
L. James makes 3-pt shot from 26 ft +3 67-64
K. Irving makes 2-pt shot from 9 ft +2 69-66
L. James makes 2-pt shot at rim +2 71-66
K. Irving makes 3-pt shot from 26 ft +3 74-66
L. James makes 2-pt shot from 2 ft +2 77-71
K. Irving makes 3-pt shot from 28 ft (assist by L. James) +3 80-73
L. James makes 3-pt shot from 25 ft +3 89-80
K. Irving makes 2-pt shot from 9 ft +2 95-87
L. James makes 2-pt shot from 16 ft +2 97-88
K. Irving makes 2-pt shot from 8 ft +2 101-92
K. Irving makes 2-pt shot from 8 ft +2 104-96
K. Irving makes 2-pt shot from 14 ft +2 106-96
K. Irving makes 3-pt shot from 26 ft +3 109-96


game over.. cavs never looked back



-----------------------



cavs 3rd victory

0-4 +2 K. Irving makes 2-pt shot from 13 ft
0-6 +2 L. James makes 2-pt shot at rim
0-8 +2 L. James makes 2-pt shot from 3 ft
2-11 +3 K. Irving makes 3-pt shot from 28 ft
2-13 +2 L. James makes 2-pt shot at rim
7-20 +2 K. Irving makes 2-pt shot from 18 ft
9-26 +2 L. James makes 2-pt shot from 1 ft
13-34 +3 K. Irving makes 3-pt shot from 27 ft
18-37 +2 K. Irving makes 2-pt shot from 17 ft
26-43 +2 K. Irving makes 2-pt shot at rim


game over ... cavs never looked back



kyrie scored 51 points in key moments
lebron scored 26 points in key moments

[Dray n Klay]

all came in garbage time remember




cavs first victory:

0-2 +2 K. Irving makes 2-pt shot from 12 ft
0-4 +2 L. James makes 2-pt shot from 1 ft
0-6 +2 K. Irving makes 2-pt shot from 1 ft
4-13 +2 L. James makes 2-pt shot at rim
4-19 +2 L. James makes 2-pt shot at rim
6-21 +2 K. Irving makes 2-pt shot from 20 ft
8-23 +2 K. Irving makes 2-pt shot from 18 ft
10-25+2 K. Irving makes 2-pt shot from 13 ft
10-30+3 K. Irving makes 3-pt shot from 24 ft
13-33+3 K. Irving makes 3-pt shot from 27 ft

game over... cavs never looked back


----------------------------



cavs 2nd victory tied 61-61 at half time

K. Irving makes 2-pt shot from 1 ft +2 63-61
L. James makes 3-pt shot from 26 ft +3 67-64
K. Irving makes 2-pt shot from 9 ft +2 69-66
L. James makes 2-pt shot at rim +2 71-66
K. Irving makes 3-pt shot from 26 ft +3 74-66
L. James makes 2-pt shot from 2 ft +2 77-71
K. Irving makes 3-pt shot from 28 ft (assist by L. James) +3 80-73
L. James makes 3-pt shot from 25 ft +3 89-80
K. Irving makes 2-pt shot from 9 ft +2 95-87
L. James makes 2-pt shot from 16 ft +2 97-88
K. Irving makes 2-pt shot from 8 ft +2 101-92
K. Irving makes 2-pt shot from 8 ft +2 104-96
K. Irving makes 2-pt shot from 14 ft +2 106-96
K. Irving makes 3-pt shot from 26 ft +3 109-96


game over.. cavs never looked back



-----------------------



cavs 3rd victory

0-4 +2 K. Irving makes 2-pt shot from 13 ft
0-6 +2 L. James makes 2-pt shot at rim
0-8 +2 L. James makes 2-pt shot from 3 ft
2-11 +3 K. Irving makes 3-pt shot from 28 ft
2-13 +2 L. James makes 2-pt shot at rim
7-20 +2 K. Irving makes 2-pt shot from 18 ft
9-26 +2 L. James makes 2-pt shot from 1 ft
13-34 +3 K. Irving makes 3-pt shot from 27 ft
18-37 +2 K. Irving makes 2-pt shot from 17 ft
26-43 +2 K. Irving makes 2-pt shot at rim


game over ... cavs never looked back



kyrie scored 51 points in key moments
lebron scored 26 points in key moments


How many accounts did you make this year :oldlol:

[HunterSThompson]

That non legendary sidekick outplayed the opposing teams best player in half their series during their title run

2011 first round:
Wade - 22/8/5 with 53%ts PERFORMED BETTER
Bosh - 20/9/1 with 54%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Best 76er player Brand - 15/8/0 with 57%ts


2011 2nd round:
Wade - 30/7/5 with 55%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Best celtic player Pierce - 19/5/3 with 57%ts


2011 3rd round:
Bosh - 23/8/1 with 69%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Bulls best player Rose - 23/4/6 with 43%ts


2011 finals:
Wade - 27/7/5 with 61%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Mavs best player Dirk - 26/9/2 with 53%ts


2012 2nd round:
Wade - 26/6/3 with 54%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Pacers best player Granger - 13/4/3 with 48%ts

2012 3rd round:
Wade - 21/6/5 with 52%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Bostons best player Garnett - 19/9/1 with 52%ts????
or Pierce - 18/4/2 with 43%ts? lol


2013 1st round:
Allen - 17/4/2 with 66%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
bucks best player Ellis - 14/3/5 with 45%ts

2013 2nd round:
Bosh - 14/9/2 with 56%ts EVEN
vs
Bulls best player butler - 15/6/2 with 58%ts

2013 Finals:
Wade - 20/4/5/2 with 51%ts EVEN
vs
Spurs best player Duncan 18/12/1 with 55%ts

2014 2nd round:
Wade - 18/4/4 with 55%ts EVEN
vs
nets best player johnson 20/4/2 with 65%ts

2014 finals:
Wade - 15/4/3/2 with 50%ts EVEN
vs
Spurs best player Kawhi - 17/6/2/2 with 75%ts

2015 first round:
Kyrie - 23/5/4 with 58%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Boston best player Thomas - 17/3/7 with 51%ts

2015 2nd round:
Kyrie - 18/2/3 with 59%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Bulls best player Rose - 21/5/6 with 45%ts

2015 3rd round:
Jr Smith - 18/8/2 with 66%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Hawks best player - Teague 21/3/4 with 52%ts

2016 first round:
Kyrie - 28/2/5 with 59%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Pistons best player Drummond - 16/9/0 with 48%ts

2016 2nd round:
Kyrie - 21/2/6 with 62%ts PERFORMED BETTER
Love - 19/13/3 with 50%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Hawks best player millsap - 17/10/3 with 50%ts

2016 3rd round:
Kyrie - 24/3/5 with 56%ts EVEN
vs
Raptors best player derozan - 23/3/3 with 56%ts

2016 finals:
Kyrie - 27/4/4/2 with 56%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Warriors best player curry - 22/5/4 with 58%ts

2017 2nd round:
Kyrie - 22/3/9 with 50%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Raptors best player derozan - 20/4/4 with 51%ts

2017 3rd round:
Kyrie - 26/2/5 with 76%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Boston best player Bradley 19/4/2 with 48%ts

2018 2nd round:
Love - 21/12/2 with 59%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Raptors best player lowry - 18/3/9 with 73%ts

2020 1st round:
Davis - 30/9/4 with 66%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
blazers best player lillard - 24/3/4 with 61%ts

2020 2nd round:
Davis - 26/12/4 with 66%ts PERFORMED BETTER(defense included)
vs
rockets best player harden - 29/4/7 with 66%ts

2020 3rd round:
Davis - 31/6/3 with 67%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Nuggets best player Murray - 25/4/7 with 63%ts

2020 finals:
Davis - 25/11/3 with 67%ts PERFORMED BETTER(defense included)
vs
Heat best player Butler - 26/8/9 with 65%ts



:confusedshrug:

[Axe]

Kobe went 0/5 in finals mvp count (with regards to finals trips) before winning his first in his sixth try (2009).

[Johnny32]

Yet lebron averaged more points, rebounds, assists, stls, blocks and higher FG% than him


So LeBron > > Kobe/Jordan level lol? :oldlol:

LeREKT.

[Spurs m8]

He just simply isn't good enough.

[ELITEpower23]

Lebron won without having any all star teammates in 2016


Has Kobe?

Guys? We done now?

[BigShotBob]

2011 first round:
Wade - 22/8/5 with 53%ts PERFORMED BETTER
Bosh - 20/9/1 with 54%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Best 76er player Brand - 15/8/0 with 57%ts


2011 2nd round:
Wade - 30/7/5 with 55%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Best celtic player Pierce - 19/5/3 with 57%ts


2011 3rd round:
Bosh - 23/8/1 with 69%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Bulls best player Rose - 23/4/6 with 43%ts


2011 finals:
Wade - 27/7/5 with 61%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Mavs best player Dirk - 26/9/2 with 53%ts


2012 2nd round:
Wade - 26/6/3 with 54%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Pacers best player Granger - 13/4/3 with 48%ts

2012 3rd round:
Wade - 21/6/5 with 52%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Bostons best player Garnett - 19/9/1 with 52%ts????
or Pierce - 18/4/2 with 43%ts? lol


2013 1st round:
Allen - 17/4/2 with 66%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
bucks best player Ellis - 14/3/5 with 45%ts

2013 2nd round:
Bosh - 14/9/2 with 56%ts EVEN
vs
Bulls best player butler - 15/6/2 with 58%ts

2013 Finals:
Wade - 20/4/5/2 with 51%ts EVEN
vs
Spurs best player Duncan 18/12/1 with 55%ts

2014 2nd round:
Wade - 18/4/4 with 55%ts EVEN
vs
nets best player johnson 20/4/2 with 65%ts

2014 finals:
Wade - 15/4/3/2 with 50%ts EVEN
vs
Spurs best player Kawhi - 17/6/2/2 with 75%ts

2015 first round:
Kyrie - 23/5/4 with 58%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Boston best player Thomas - 17/3/7 with 51%ts

2015 2nd round:
Kyrie - 18/2/3 with 59%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Bulls best player Rose - 21/5/6 with 45%ts

2015 3rd round:
Jr Smith - 18/8/2 with 66%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Hawks best player - Teague 21/3/4 with 52%ts

2016 first round:
Kyrie - 28/2/5 with 59%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Pistons best player Drummond - 16/9/0 with 48%ts

2016 2nd round:
Kyrie - 21/2/6 with 62%ts PERFORMED BETTER
Love - 19/13/3 with 50%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Hawks best player millsap - 17/10/3 with 50%ts

2016 3rd round:
Kyrie - 24/3/5 with 56%ts EVEN
vs
Raptors best player derozan - 23/3/3 with 56%ts

2016 finals:
Kyrie - 27/4/4/2 with 56%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Warriors best player curry - 22/5/4 with 58%ts

2017 2nd round:
Kyrie - 22/3/9 with 50%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Raptors best player derozan - 20/4/4 with 51%ts

2017 3rd round:
Kyrie - 26/2/5 with 76%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Boston best player Bradley 19/4/2 with 48%ts

2018 2nd round:
Love - 21/12/2 with 59%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Raptors best player lowry - 18/3/9 with 73%ts

2020 1st round:
Davis - 30/9/4 with 66%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
blazers best player lillard - 24/3/4 with 61%ts

2020 2nd round:
Davis - 26/12/4 with 66%ts PERFORMED BETTER(defense included)
vs
rockets best player harden - 29/4/7 with 66%ts

2020 3rd round:
Davis - 31/6/3 with 67%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Nuggets best player Murray - 25/4/7 with 63%ts

2020 finals:
Davis - 25/11/3 with 67%ts PERFORMED BETTER(defense included)
vs
Heat best player Butler - 26/8/9 with 65%ts



:confusedshrug:

It's over....

[TheGoatest]

Lebron won without having any all star teammates in 2016


Has Kobe?

Not just without any all-stars. A player winning a chip without all-star teammates is rare, but not that rare.
The thing that makes LeBron's 2016 ring special is that he won it without any teammates getting any individual awards or accolades/all-NBA/defensive teams whatsoever. The only championship in history like that was Hakeem's 1993-94 Rockets. 1999 Duncan/Spurs was kind of like this, but there was no all-star game that year and David Robinson was an all-star in both 1998 and 2000.

And let's not forget him winning a chip with a #2 scorer averaging 15.9 ppg in the playoffs in 2013. 2016 and 2013 are two of the most impressive chips ever won, teammates and competition taken into consideration. :applause:

[Spurs m8]

2011 first round:
Wade - 22/8/5 with 53%ts PERFORMED BETTER
Bosh - 20/9/1 with 54%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Best 76er player Brand - 15/8/0 with 57%ts


2011 2nd round:
Wade - 30/7/5 with 55%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Best celtic player Pierce - 19/5/3 with 57%ts


2011 3rd round:
Bosh - 23/8/1 with 69%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Bulls best player Rose - 23/4/6 with 43%ts


2011 finals:
Wade - 27/7/5 with 61%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Mavs best player Dirk - 26/9/2 with 53%ts


2012 2nd round:
Wade - 26/6/3 with 54%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Pacers best player Granger - 13/4/3 with 48%ts

2012 3rd round:
Wade - 21/6/5 with 52%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Bostons best player Garnett - 19/9/1 with 52%ts????
or Pierce - 18/4/2 with 43%ts? lol


2013 1st round:
Allen - 17/4/2 with 66%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
bucks best player Ellis - 14/3/5 with 45%ts

2013 2nd round:
Bosh - 14/9/2 with 56%ts EVEN
vs
Bulls best player butler - 15/6/2 with 58%ts

2013 Finals:
Wade - 20/4/5/2 with 51%ts EVEN
vs
Spurs best player Duncan 18/12/1 with 55%ts

2014 2nd round:
Wade - 18/4/4 with 55%ts EVEN
vs
nets best player johnson 20/4/2 with 65%ts

2014 finals:
Wade - 15/4/3/2 with 50%ts EVEN
vs
Spurs best player Kawhi - 17/6/2/2 with 75%ts

2015 first round:
Kyrie - 23/5/4 with 58%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Boston best player Thomas - 17/3/7 with 51%ts

2015 2nd round:
Kyrie - 18/2/3 with 59%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Bulls best player Rose - 21/5/6 with 45%ts

2015 3rd round:
Jr Smith - 18/8/2 with 66%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Hawks best player - Teague 21/3/4 with 52%ts

2016 first round:
Kyrie - 28/2/5 with 59%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Pistons best player Drummond - 16/9/0 with 48%ts

2016 2nd round:
Kyrie - 21/2/6 with 62%ts PERFORMED BETTER
Love - 19/13/3 with 50%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Hawks best player millsap - 17/10/3 with 50%ts

2016 3rd round:
Kyrie - 24/3/5 with 56%ts EVEN
vs
Raptors best player derozan - 23/3/3 with 56%ts

2016 finals:
Kyrie - 27/4/4/2 with 56%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Warriors best player curry - 22/5/4 with 58%ts

2017 2nd round:
Kyrie - 22/3/9 with 50%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Raptors best player derozan - 20/4/4 with 51%ts

2017 3rd round:
Kyrie - 26/2/5 with 76%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Boston best player Bradley 19/4/2 with 48%ts

2018 2nd round:
Love - 21/12/2 with 59%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Raptors best player lowry - 18/3/9 with 73%ts

2020 1st round:
Davis - 30/9/4 with 66%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
blazers best player lillard - 24/3/4 with 61%ts

2020 2nd round:
Davis - 26/12/4 with 66%ts PERFORMED BETTER(defense included)
vs
rockets best player harden - 29/4/7 with 66%ts

2020 3rd round:
Davis - 31/6/3 with 67%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Nuggets best player Murray - 25/4/7 with 63%ts

2020 finals:
Davis - 25/11/3 with 67%ts PERFORMED BETTER(defense included)
vs
Heat best player Butler - 26/8/9 with 65%ts



:confusedshrug:

Shut.it.down.

She's done.

[Nb1]

2011 first round:
Wade - 22/8/5 with 53%ts PERFORMED BETTER
Bosh - 20/9/1 with 54%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Best 76er player Brand - 15/8/0 with 57%ts


2011 2nd round:
Wade - 30/7/5 with 55%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Best celtic player Pierce - 19/5/3 with 57%ts


2011 3rd round:
Bosh - 23/8/1 with 69%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Bulls best player Rose - 23/4/6 with 43%ts


2011 finals:
Wade - 27/7/5 with 61%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Mavs best player Dirk - 26/9/2 with 53%ts


2012 2nd round:
Wade - 26/6/3 with 54%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Pacers best player Granger - 13/4/3 with 48%ts

2012 3rd round:
Wade - 21/6/5 with 52%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Bostons best player Garnett - 19/9/1 with 52%ts????
or Pierce - 18/4/2 with 43%ts? lol


2013 1st round:
Allen - 17/4/2 with 66%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
bucks best player Ellis - 14/3/5 with 45%ts

2013 2nd round:
Bosh - 14/9/2 with 56%ts EVEN
vs
Bulls best player butler - 15/6/2 with 58%ts

2013 Finals:
Wade - 20/4/5/2 with 51%ts EVEN
vs
Spurs best player Duncan 18/12/1 with 55%ts

2014 2nd round:
Wade - 18/4/4 with 55%ts EVEN
vs
nets best player johnson 20/4/2 with 65%ts

2014 finals:
Wade - 15/4/3/2 with 50%ts EVEN
vs
Spurs best player Kawhi - 17/6/2/2 with 75%ts

2015 first round:
Kyrie - 23/5/4 with 58%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Boston best player Thomas - 17/3/7 with 51%ts

2015 2nd round:
Kyrie - 18/2/3 with 59%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Bulls best player Rose - 21/5/6 with 45%ts

2015 3rd round:
Jr Smith - 18/8/2 with 66%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Hawks best player - Teague 21/3/4 with 52%ts

2016 first round:
Kyrie - 28/2/5 with 59%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Pistons best player Drummond - 16/9/0 with 48%ts

2016 2nd round:
Kyrie - 21/2/6 with 62%ts PERFORMED BETTER
Love - 19/13/3 with 50%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Hawks best player millsap - 17/10/3 with 50%ts

2016 3rd round:
Kyrie - 24/3/5 with 56%ts EVEN
vs
Raptors best player derozan - 23/3/3 with 56%ts

2016 finals:
Kyrie - 27/4/4/2 with 56%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Warriors best player curry - 22/5/4 with 58%ts

2017 2nd round:
Kyrie - 22/3/9 with 50%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Raptors best player derozan - 20/4/4 with 51%ts

2017 3rd round:
Kyrie - 26/2/5 with 76%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Boston best player Bradley 19/4/2 with 48%ts

2018 2nd round:
Love - 21/12/2 with 59%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Raptors best player lowry - 18/3/9 with 73%ts

2020 1st round:
Davis - 30/9/4 with 66%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
blazers best player lillard - 24/3/4 with 61%ts

2020 2nd round:
Davis - 26/12/4 with 66%ts PERFORMED BETTER(defense included)
vs
rockets best player harden - 29/4/7 with 66%ts

2020 3rd round:
Davis - 31/6/3 with 67%ts PERFORMED BETTER
vs
Nuggets best player Murray - 25/4/7 with 63%ts

2020 finals:
Davis - 25/11/3 with 67%ts PERFORMED BETTER(defense included)
vs
Heat best player Butler - 26/8/9 with 65%ts



:confusedshrug:

Lmfao at this. How can you say someone performed better when they had less points, less rbs, less assists lol. Your list is full of sh**. 90% of your list the guy gets outperformed and you either write performed better or even looooool

Your list actually shows how great Lebron must have been to reach the finals with those crappy team mates!Thx for making the goat argument so much easier!

[ELITEpower23]

Lebron won without having any all star teammates in 2016


Has Kobe?

Cute run OP.

So can we close it up now?

[expansionera]

Zero .500 seasons
Lower seeding than an all-star-less team whose best player by far and leading scorer by a significant margin was rookie Chuck Person
1-9
Outscored by Terry Cummings despite his game being based on scoring
Lost in first round to a team that got swept in the second round by a team that went on to lose in the conference finals to a team that went on to lose in the finals
Emptiest stat season of all time

Then...

https://i.postimg.cc/sxQfmm9F/23has-Asavior-PIP.jpg

[Axe]

Zero .500 seasons
Lower seeding than an all-star-less team whose best player by far and leading scorer by a significant margin was rookie Chuck Person
1-9
Outscored by Terry Cummings despite his game being based on scoring
Lost in first round to a team that got swept in the second round by a team that went on to lose in the conference finals to a team that went on to lose in the finals
Emptiest stat season of all time

Then...

https://i.postimg.cc/sxQfmm9F/23has-Asavior-PIP.jpg
Shit, dup exposed. :biggums:

[expansionera]

Shit, dup exposed. :biggums:

The GOAT poll exposed enough, there are dozens of unique IPs that support Bron. Not really the case for Jordan

[Axe]

The GOAT poll exposed enough, there are dozens of unique IPs that support Bron. Not really the case for Jordan
Lol at mentioning chuck person tho..

[ELITEpower23]

Zero .500 seasons
Lower seeding than an all-star-less team whose best player by far and leading scorer by a significant margin was rookie Chuck Person
1-9
Outscored by Terry Cummings despite his game being based on scoring
Lost in first round to a team that got swept in the second round by a team that went on to lose in the conference finals to a team that went on to lose in the finals
Emptiest stat season of all time

Then...

https://i.postimg.cc/sxQfmm9F/23has-Asavior-PIP.jpg

Well that settles that then

RIP to OP

[DJmicah]

Clear troll post but ill entertain it


2012 - Kobe/Jordan level sidekick
2013 - Kobe/Jordan level sidekick wade wasnt anymore
2016 - Kobe/Jordan level performance by a sidekick kyrie did his thing so ill give you that he balled out
2020 - Shaq/Wilt level performance by a sidekick AD has some great stats but idk about shaq or wilt level


meanwhile for Kobe


2000 - Shaq level sidekick duh kobe was the sidekick
2001 - Shaq level sidekick duh upped his game but still 2nd to shaq
2002 - Shaq level sidekick duh same as 01
2009 - Derrick Coleman level sidekick gasol aint no damn derrick coleman, plus they played the magic cuz KG was hurt
2010 - Derrick Coleman level sidekick gasol still aint no coleman smh but they did play a better team, thus kobe having a worse finals than 09


and Jordan

[B]1991 - Shawn Marion level sidekick you disrespected the hell outta pippen here smfh you know this aint true bruh
1992 - Shawn Marion level sidekick
1993 - Shawn Marion level sidekick
1996 - Paul Millsap level sidekick
1997 - Shawn Marion level sidekick
1998 - Paul Millsap level sidekick

[HunterSThompson]

Lmfao at this. How can you say someone performed better when they had less points, less rbs, less assists lol. Your list is full of sh**. 90% of your list the guy gets outperformed and you either write performed better or even looooool

Your list actually shows how great Lebron must have been to reach the finals with those crappy team mates!Thx for making the goat argument so much easier!

59%ts to 45%ts.. thats how.. one more point, rebound or assists doesn't even remotely make up for that

it would have to be like 10 more points. and even then you morons say gasol outperformed Kobe cause of efficiency lmao.. so shut the hell up

[HunterSThompson]

Cute run OP.

So can we close it up now?

kyrie was injured during the season in 2016. he was obviously already an allstar since he won allstar mvp in 2014 lmao. and he averaged prime mj/kobe type numbers in the finals and hit the title winning shot. he wasn't just allstar level. he was goat level for that series and most of the playoffs.

[expansionera]

D Wade’s individual 2013 Finals performance would be good enough to win a title in the 90s, correct?

[warriorfan]

2012 - Kobe/Jordan level sidekick
2013 - Kobe/Jordan level sidekick
2016 - Kobe/Jordan level performance by a sidekick
2020 - Shaq/Wilt level performance by a sidekick


meanwhile for Kobe


2000 - Shaq level sidekick duh
2001 - Shaq level sidekick duh
2002 - Shaq level sidekick duh
2009 - Derrick Coleman level sidekick
2010 - Derrick Coleman level sidekick


and Jordan

1991 - Shawn Marion level sidekick
1992 - Shawn Marion level sidekick
1993 - Shawn Marion level sidekick
1996 - Paul Millsap level sidekick
1997 - Shawn Marion level sidekick
1998 - Paul Millsap level sidekick

:roll:

So funny watching theses clowns meltdown and try to tear down superstars like D Wade and Anthony Davis. Poor bron stans.

[1987_Lakers]

A Kobe stan and a Curry stan talking about help when both players had a top 10-15 player ever at their peak, Shaq & KD. LOL.

[SouBeachTalents]

A Kobe stan and a Curry stan talking about help when both players had a top 10-15 player ever at their peak, Shaq & KD. LOL.
Also ironic considering they were the help for most of their titles.

[Spurs m8]

:roll:

So funny watching theses clowns meltdown and try to tear down superstars like D Wade and Anthony Davis. Poor bron stans.

Why is it, when they first get these stars off in the off-season, the bron stans start the 'championship cruise' threads...as they know the player is going to have a huge impact.

Then once the player carries bron to a chip, suddenly they need to meltdown and tear them down for the rest of their career.

It's so weird

Why do you do that, wheels?

[HunterSThompson]

A Kobe stan and a Curry stan talking about help when both players had a top 10-15 player ever at their peak, Shaq & KD. LOL.

wade would have gone down as a top 10 to 15 player had lebron not sabotaged the 2011 finals and ditched his ass for a younger big 3

imagine if kobe didn't save shaq in the 2000 wcf in game 7 and Portland goes onto win then he quits on the Lakers after 4 years and goes to sanantonio. shaqs nowhere near a top 10 player all time either. he probly never wins a title. the Spurs clean up the next 4 or 5 in a row and shaqs finished.

[Hey Yo]

1b for 2 of them. 1a for those 2 vs the best teams

bit we've already went through this.

and regardless Kobe has 2 without a legendary sidekick or legendary sidekick performance

lebron has zero

The other day you posted all the extreme injuries Kobe was dealing with, now you wanna say he was 1b to Shaq those 3yrs??

Can't have it both ways.

[1987_Lakers]

wade would have gone down as a top 10 to 15 player had lebron not sabotaged the 2011 finals and ditched his ass for a younger big 3

imagine if kobe didn't save shaq in the 2000 wcf in game 7 and Portland goes onto win then he quits on the Lakers after 4 years and goes to sanantonio. shaqs nowhere near a top 10 player all time either. he probly never wins a title. the Spurs clean up the next 4 or 5 in a row and shaqs finished.

'12 & '13 Wade in the playoffs: 19/5/5 on 52 TS%
'09 & '10 Gasol in the playoffs: 19/11/3 on 2 blks & 61 TS%

Kobe also won 3 chips with probably the most dominant big man we have ever seen peak wise.

Thank you.

[SouBeachTalents]

wade would have gone down as a top 10 to 15 player had lebron not sabotaged the 2011 finals and ditched his ass for a younger big 3

imagine if kobe didn't save shaq in the 2000 wcf in game 7 and Portland goes onto win then he quits on the Lakers after 4 years and goes to sanantonio. shaqs nowhere near a top 10 player all time either. he probly never wins a title. the Spurs clean up the next 4 or 5 in a row and shaqs finished.
Nah, the FMVP in 2011 would've been a big boost, but Wade's longevity, for ATG standards, was way too short for top 10 or honestly even top 15 consideration. You could get away with it if you have a stupidly successful career like Magic or Bird, but one additional FMVP ain't making Wade jump from top 25 to top 10 :lol

[1987_Lakers]

Nah, the FMVP in 2011 would've been a big boost, but Wade's longevity, for ATG standards, was way too short for top 10 or honestly even top 15 consideration. You could get away with it if you have a stupidly successful career like Magic or Bird, but one additional FMVP ain't making Wade jump from top 25 to top 10 :lol

Wade had a great peak but only had like 5 seasons where he played at a superstar level, how that would have been good enough for top 10 ever is beyond me.

[SouBeachTalents]

Wade had a great peak but only had like 5 seasons where he played at a superstar level, how that would have been good enough for top 10 ever is beyond me.
It's a nonsense argument. Of Wade's 7 legit peak seasons, 2 of them he was injured and another he got hurt in the playoffs. He had the talent to potentially be top 10-15, but he clearly lacked the durability.

[HunterSThompson]

The other day you posted all the extreme injuries Kobe was dealing with, now you wanna say he was 1b to Shaq those 3yrs??

Can't have it both ways.

I said 2 out of the 3 titles he was 1b and during the series vs the real competition out west he was 1A most of the time

and he was. and those 2 years he was only injured during part of the regular season in 2001 and for one series in 2002. had kobe not gotten intentional food poisoning he would have been the best player in the kings and spurs series both years for all 4.

[HunterSThompson]

Nah, the FMVP in 2011 would've been a big boost, but Wade's longevity, for ATG standards, was way too short for top 10 or honestly even top 15 consideration. You could get away with it if you have a stupidly successful career like Magic or Bird, but one additional FMVP ain't making Wade jump from top 25 to top 10 :lol

4 rings and 2 finals mvps with wades stats and level of play easily puts him top 11 to 15 or so.. hes probly right there with Oscar and west. possibly curry

[1987_Lakers]

4 rings and 2 finals mvps with wades stats and level of play easily puts him top 11 to 15 or so.. hes probly right there with Oscar and west. possibly curry

If Kobe with 5 rings & 2 FMVP with superior longevity isn't even considered top 10 then I'm sure Wade's 2 FMVP wouldn't even sniff top 15.

[Dray n Klay]

4 rings and 2 finals mvps with wades stats and level of play easily puts him top 11 to 15 or so.. hes probly right there with Oscar and west. possibly curry

Wade would still have 0 MVPs, you can’t be in the Top 10 without at least 2 MVPs

[Axe]

4 rings and 2 finals mvps with wades stats and level of play easily puts him top 11 to 15 or so.. hes probly right there with Oscar and west. possibly curry
Meanwhile, stephen curry has zero finals mvps. So what's his business being there rofl.

[tpols]

Its been gone over a lot... weak ball movement teams. That's why he needs prime wade, peak kyrie, and peak AD to win and All NBA 3rd options, loaded supporting casts of elite snipers and defenders. And even then he still mostly loses.

Imagine LeBron going 6/6 with prime Iggy... That's what MJ did with Pippen.

And conversely imagine MJ playing with prime Barkley, Robinson, KJ, Kemp, and Thunder Dan... instead of just Pippen and Horace Grant. It wouldn't even be worth watching. He would quit for baseball even earlier because thered be no challenge.

[HunterSThompson]

Wade would still have 0 MVPs, you can’t be in the Top 10 without at least 2 MVPs

I said more around 11 to 15.. it's usually a spot for guys missing one major award but have tons of other stuff or having a low balance of everything. and it's not just about awards. I factor in skills and eras and public opinion

personally I would have it

#11 hakeem 2 titles, 2fmvps, 1 mvp + opinion boost
#12 Durant 2 titles, 2fmvps, 1 mvp + skills boost
#13 Moses 1 title, 1fmvp, 3 mvp's + era boost
#14 Dr J - 1 nba title, 1 mvp + ABA goat boost
#15 Wade - 4 rings, 2 fmvps, 0 mvps + skills boost
#16 Curry - 3 rings, 0 fmvps, 2 mvps + opinion boost
#17 west - 1 ring, 1 fmvp, 0 mvps + opinion boost
#18 Oscar - 1 ring, 0 fmvps, 1 mvp + opinion boost


I would have mikan in there but his era was shit and opinion is pretty low for him sadly. not much skills and strictly pioneer/career based

[1987_Lakers]

I said more around 11 to 15.. it's usually a spot for guys missing one major award but have tons of other stuff or having a low balance of everything. and it's not just about awards. I factor in skills and eras and public opinion

personally I would have it

#11 hakeem 2 titles, 2fmvps, 1 mvp + opinion boost
#12 Durant 2 titles, 2fmvps, 1 mvp + skills boost
#13 Moses 1 title, 1fmvp, 3 mvp's + era boost
#14 Dr J - 1 nba title, 1 mvp + ABA goat boost
#15 Wade - 4 rings, 2 fmvps, 0 mvps + skills boost
#16 Curry - 3 rings, 0 fmvps, 2 mvps + opinion boost
#17 west - 1 ring, 1 fmvp, 0 mvps + opinion boost
#18 Oscar - 1 ring, 0 fmvps, 1 mvp + opinion boost


I would have mikan in there but his era was shit and opinion is pretty low for him sadly. not much skills and strictly pioneer/career based

Hakeem won a title with less help than Kobe could ever dream of, also has an MVP to boot and is regarded as the best defensive player ever since Russell.

Hakeem > Kobe

[tpols]

The crazy thing is a lot of people still don't accept that AD put up a better performance for a whole playoff run in 2020 than Shaq ever did. 28/10 on 130 ORTG and elite defense. Shaq scored the same and grabbed more boards but he never scored on ADs efficiency (few ever have) due to horrible FT shooting. And AD is also a better defender. So LeBron basically needed peak shaq to beat jimmy butler and Tyler herro.

[TheCorporation]

Why hasn't any players been able to thrive alongside FMVP winners Kobe and Jordan like they were with LeBron?

Easy answer: LeBron can get the most out of his teammates while Kobe/MJ reduce their teammates.

Next

:dancin

[Spurs m8]

Its been gone over a lot... weak ball movement teams. That's why he needs prime wade, peak kyrie, and peak AD to win and All NBA 3rd options, loaded supporting casts of elite snipers and defenders. And even then he still mostly loses.

Imagine LeBron going 6/6 with prime Iggy... That's what MJ did with Pippen.

And conversely imagine MJ playing with prime Barkley, Robinson, KJ, Kemp, and Thunder Dan... instead of just Pippen and Horace Grant. It wouldn't even be worth watching. He would quit for baseball even earlier because thered be no challenge.

:applause::applause:

Fantastic post.

And it's funny, because MJ would have just never done that, his integrity would have never allowed it.

He would have been flat out embarrassed of himself had he done that, and rightfully so.

MJ lost and hit the gym harder....didn't sit in the GM office or create a lame ass war room

[1987_Lakers]

The crazy thing is a lot of people still don't accept that AD put up a better performance for a whole playoff run in 2020 than Shaq ever did. 28/10 on 130 ORTG and elite defense. Shaq scored the same and grabbed more boards but he never scored on ADs efficiency (few ever have) due to horrible FT shooting. And AD is also a better defender. So LeBron basically needed peak shaq to beat jimmy butler and Tyler herro.

Wow, that's impressive. Surely AD had lots of team success before teaming up with Bron, right?

[TheCorporation]

The crazy thing is a lot of people still don't accept that AD put up a better performance for a whole playoff run in 2020 than Shaq ever did. 30/10 on 130 ORTG and elite defense. Shaq scored the same and grabbed more boards but he never scored on ADs efficiency (few ever have) due to horrible FT shooting. And AD is also a better defender. So LeBron basically needed peak shaq to beat jimmy butler and Tyler herro.

And are you surprised by this? Kobe is a bad passer, terrible teammate, ball hog while LeBron is a selfless player, often letting his teammates get theirs, GOAT level passer, and incredible teammate.

Tell me you're not surprised that having Kobe as a teammate reduces other player's stats/potential? :lol Tpols...

[HunterSThompson]

Wow, that's impressive. Surely AD had lots of team success before teaming up with Bron, right?

its amazing what a bubble can do for a fragile homosexual soft ass ***** and an old fat alcoholic roided cheater


the bubble made.donovan Mitchell, Jamaal Murray and Tyler herro all look like peak kobe

something definitely wasn't right.

[tpols]

Wow, that's impressive. Surely AD had lots of team success before teaming up with Bron, right?

He had about as much success as Shaq did before Kobe. When he was getting swept out the playoffs every year. And AD never had anybody as good as Penny Hardaway on the Pelicans.

FYI ... AD averaged 31/10 in the playoffs with New Orleans. Can't beat that. He was carrying scrubs.

[HunterSThompson]

He had about as much success as Shaq did before Kobe. When he was getting swept out the playoffs every year. And AD never had anybody as good as Penny Hardaway on the Pelicans.

FYI ... AD averaged 31/10 in the playoffs with New Orleans. Can't beat that. He was carrying scrubs.

this ^

bigs can't do anything without a legendary wing player

only Walton and hakeem really ever did anything great

[TheCorporation]

He had about as much success as Shaq did before Kobe. When he was getting swept out the playoffs every year. And AD never had anybody as good as Penny Hardaway on the Pelicans.

FYI ... AD averaged 31/10 in the playoffs with New Orleans. Can't beat that. He was carrying scrubs.

Total # of playoff series won in the last four years prior to LeBron:

Wade, Bosh, Davis, Love, Kyrie = 1

Not a typo. Wade, Bosh, Davis, Love and Kyrie COMBINED won a total of one playoff series in the 4 years prior to Lebron arriving :lol

[Dray n Klay]

The crazy thing is a lot of people still don't accept that AD put up a better performance for a whole playoff run in 2020 than Shaq ever did. 28/10 on 130 ORTG and elite defense. Shaq scored the same and grabbed more boards but he never scored on ADs efficiency (few ever have) due to horrible FT shooting. And AD is also a better defender. So LeBron basically needed peak shaq to beat jimmy butler and Tyler herro.

But LeBron outproduced AD those playoffs

So you’re admitting 35 year old lebron >> Peak Shaq?

[expansionera]

D Wade’s individual 2013 Finals performance would be good enough to win a title in the 90s, correct?

Anyone?

[ShawkFactory]

The crazy thing is a lot of people still don't accept that AD put up a better performance for a whole playoff run in 2020 than Shaq ever did. 28/10 on 130 ORTG and elite defense. Shaq scored the same and grabbed more boards but he never scored on ADs efficiency (few ever have) due to horrible FT shooting. And AD is also a better defender. So LeBron basically needed peak shaq to beat jimmy butler and Tyler herro.

Can you imagine what peak Shaq would do in 2020? Stop it

[1987_Lakers]

He had about as much success as Shaq did before Kobe. When he was getting swept out the playoffs every year. And AD never had anybody as good as Penny Hardaway on the Pelicans.

FYI ... AD averaged 31/10 in the playoffs with New Orleans. Can't beat that. He was carrying scrubs.

Also had a 34-48 season & a 30-52 season with the Pelicans, carrying was the last thing he was doing, he was going down with the ship. Like damn, imagine a peak Shaq leading his team to that amount of wins.

You had guys like Spurs m8 saying he was an empty stats player before he joined the Lakers, now all of a sudden he is as good as Shaq.

AD was a hell of a player in 2020, for sure LeBron's best sidekick, but to say he was as good as Shaq just exposes you as a poster.

[SouBeachTalents]

The crazy thing is a lot of people still don't accept that AD put up a better performance for a whole playoff run in 2020 than Shaq ever did. 28/10 on 130 ORTG and elite defense. Shaq scored the same and grabbed more boards but he never scored on ADs efficiency (few ever have) due to horrible FT shooting. And AD is also a better defender. So LeBron basically needed peak shaq to beat jimmy butler and Tyler herro.
Jesus Christ, you really can be as bad as 3ball :lol Shaq averaged 30/15/2.5 blocks in '00 & '01, AD averaged 28/10/1.5 blocks. And Shaq did this in a significantly lower scoring era. And while I won't say Shaq's center competition was anything to write home about, AD was going up against teams who literally didn't even play a center in half of their series. And there's also the matter of Shaq winning in 2000 with a pre prime Kobe, while AD won with a still elite LeBron who won unanimous FMVP, while Shaq was outscoring Kobe 38-16 in the Finals, an NBA record, to take home the title.

Claiming AD's title run was better than 2000 Shaq's, or '94/'95 Hakeem as the other 3ball disciple ImKobe argued, is so ridiculous it's the basketball equivalent of QAnon. That's not even getting into the awe inspiring hypocrisy of claiming the bubble was an asterisk with inflated numbers, then claiming that same asterisked title run is better than peak Shaq.

[1987_Lakers]

its amazing what a bubble can do for a fragile homosexual soft ass ***** and an old fat alcoholic roided cheater


the bubble made.donovan Mitchell, Jamaal Murray and Tyler herro all look like peak kobe

something definitely wasn't right.

Wrong, we lost home court because of the bubble, we lost Avery Bradley as well because he decided to not play. Things got HARDER for us and we still prevailed thanks to LeBron who had a better Finals performance than Kobe could ever dream of.

[Johnny32]

The crazy thing is hurrr, durrr

indeed.

[SouBeachTalents]

Wrong, we lost home court because of the bubble, we lost Avery Bradley as well because he decided to not play. Things got HARDER for us and we still prevailed thanks to LeBron who had a better Finals performance than Kobe could ever dream of.
Delaying the season was legit the worst thing that could have happened to the Lakers at the time. They were on pace to have HCA and they had just beaten the Bucks & Clippers in b2b statement games right before the season was suspended. I'd still like to know if the bubble was such a joke, why did the Bucks get steamrolled by the Heat, the Clippers have such a spectacular choke, and Giannis & Kawhi (for their standards) have such pedestrian series.

[tpols]

It is what it is mate. You just posted the stats that show they scored about the same, but AD was far more efficient because for an athletic 7 footer he probably has the best jumpshooting skill in basketball history. Blocks don't equal defense, AD is a far more mobile and active defensive player. And AD was also the one hitting the clutch shots.


https://youtu.be/eJOkrA3VB7c

^^^ That was on Jokic who will go down as one of the best centers ever.

Meanwhile Shaq needed Kobe to do the heavy lifting in crunch time. ('01 and '02 Kobe led the NBA playoffs in points scored for 4th Q.. and sealed the win in the epic '00 WCF comeback)

[1987_Lakers]

^^^ That was on Jokic who will go down as one of the best centers ever.

I didn't know Jokic was known for his defense.

[TheCorporation]

It is what it is mate. You just posted the stats that show they scored about the same, but AD was far more efficient because for an athletic 7 footer he probably has the best jumpshooting skill in basketball history. Blocks don't equal defense, AD is a far more mobile and active defensive player. And AD was also the one hitting the clutch shots.


https://youtu.be/eJOkrA3VB7c

^^^ That was on Jokic who will go down as one of the best centers ever.

Meanwhile Shaq needed Kobe to do the heavy lifting in crunch time. ('01 and '02 Kobe led the NBA playoffs in points scored... and sealed the win in the epic '00 WCF comeback)

So again, you're wondering why AD was more mobile and efficient with LeBron passing him the ball than Shaq having....Kobe passing him the ball :lol

Are we there yet or are you stuck at the yellow light?

[ShawkFactory]

Just for reference:

Lakers 2000 playoff pace: 89.75

Lakers 2020 playoff pace: 97

[tpols]

I didn't know Jokic was known for his defense.

The point is south beach said AD had horrible center competition when he had to duel Jokic who was easily better than any center shaq faced in the 3peat...

[SouBeachTalents]

The point is south beach said AD had horrible center competition when he had to duel Jokic who was easily better than any center shaq faced in the 3peat...
AD was going going up against Jeff Green & Bam at center. I don't even wanna fathom what peak Shaq is doing against those guys :lol And even if he went up against Jokic Shaq would obliterate him on the offensive end.

[1987_Lakers]

The point is south beach said AD had horrible center competition when he had to duel Jokic who was easily better than any center shaq faced in the 3peat...

Shaq was destroying a DPOY in 2001, when did AD go up against a defender like that?

I mean, you don't even have to look at the numbers to see who was better, just watch them play. Shaq was changing defenses out there, getting triple teamed every time he touched the ball inside and still dominating. AD was not even close to receiving that type of attention.

I'll just leave it that.

[Johnny32]

Shaq was destroying a DPOY in 2001, when did AD go up against a defender like that?

I mean, you don't even have to look at the numbers to see who was better, just watch them play. Shaq was changing defenses out there, getting triple teamed every time he touched the ball inside and still dominating. AD was not even close to receiving that type of attention.

I'll just leave it that.

mia did focus on stopping ad i think in gm 3 after he went off in gm 2. they doubled him and he was useless.

[SouBeachTalents]

Shaq was destroying a DPOY in 2001, when did AD go up against a defender like that?

I mean, you don't even have to look at the numbers to see who was better, just watch them play. Shaq was changing defenses out there, getting triple teamed every time he touched the ball inside and still dominating. AD was not even close to receiving that type of attention.

I'll just leave it that.
The bitter irony is he argues that production makes AD as good or even better than peak Shaq, yet insists Kobe is better than LeBron. You seriously cannot make this shit up :lol

[Spurs m8]

He had about as much success as Shaq did before Kobe. When he was getting swept out the playoffs every year. And AD never had anybody as good as Penny Hardaway on the Pelicans.

FYI ... AD averaged 31/10 in the playoffs with New Orleans. Can't beat that. He was carrying scrubs.

Give 1987 that D

[3ba11]

2012 - Kobe/Jordan level sidekick
2013 - Kobe/Jordan level sidekick
2016 - Kobe/Jordan level performance by a sidekick
2020 - Shaq/Wilt level performance by a sidekick


meanwhile for Kobe


2000 - Shaq level sidekick duh
2001 - Shaq level sidekick duh
2002 - Shaq level sidekick duh
2009 - Derrick Coleman level sidekick
2010 - Derrick Coleman level sidekick


and Jordan

1991 - Shawn Marion level sidekick
1992 - Shawn Marion level sidekick
1993 - Shawn Marion level sidekick
1996 - Paul Millsap level sidekick
1997 - Shawn Marion level sidekick
1998 - Paul Millsap level sidekick


f'ing GOLD

5 stars

[Johnny32]

2012 - Kobe/Jordan level sidekick
2013 - Kobe/Jordan level sidekick
2016 - Kobe/Jordan level performance by a sidekick
2020 - Shaq/Wilt level performance by a sidekick


meanwhile for Kobe


2000 - Shaq level sidekick duh
2001 - Shaq level sidekick duh
2002 - Shaq level sidekick duh
2009 - Derrick Coleman level sidekick
2010 - Derrick Coleman level sidekick


and Jordan

1991 - Shawn Marion level sidekick
1992 - Shawn Marion level sidekick
1993 - Shawn Marion level sidekick
1996 - Paul Millsap level sidekick
1997 - Shawn Marion level sidekick
1998 - Paul Millsap level sidekick

competition matters. finals sidekicks below.

91 - injured worthy
92 - terry porter
93 - kj
96 - lazy kemp
97 - 6'0 white guy
98 - 6'0 white guy

embarrassing.

[1987_Lakers]

Give 1987 that D

Didn't you call Anthony Davis "empty stats" before he joined the Lakers?

[tpols]

Shaq was destroying a DPOY in 2001, when did AD go up against a defender like that?

I mean, you don't even have to look at the numbers to see who was better, just watch them play. Shaq was changing defenses out there, getting triple teamed every time he touched the ball inside and still dominating. AD was not even close to receiving that type of attention.

I'll just leave it that.

:oldlol:

2001 (or any version) Mutumbo isn't even close to as good of a center or player as Jokic.

Do you know the defensive effort a player has to expend guarding a 7 foot Larry Bird? Shaq didn't have to expend any effort defensively against that sixer team and old stiff mutumbo, which will keep anybody fresher for offense. Ironically, Kobe was the one who had to guarding Iverson, their only decent offensive player.

And even despite AD having a much tougher defensive challenge stopping jokic and the nuggets he still went off and even hit a huge game winner. While Shaq elbowed and plowed his way through a stick thin dikembe mutumbo.

[1987_Lakers]

:oldlol:

2001 (or any version) Mutumbo isn't even close to as good of a center or player as Jokic.

Do you know the defensive effort a player has to expend guarding a 7 foot Larry Bird? Shaq didn't have to expend any effort defensively against that sixer team and old stiff mutumbo, which will keep anybody fresher for offense. Ironically, Kobe was the one who had to guarding Iverson, their only decent offensive player.

And even despite AD having a much tougher defensive challenge stopping jokic and the nuggets he still went off and even hit a huge game winner. While Shaq elbowed and plowed his way through a stick thin dikembe mutumbo.

It sure as hell makes it easier to score when that 7 foot Larry Bird can't play defense, not to mention Dwight Howard spent a good chunk of time defending Jokic as well and played better defense on him than AD did.

[GrayGoat]

Kobe was a sidekick

[1987_Lakers]

Just for reference:

Lakers 2000 playoff pace: 89.75

Lakers 2020 playoff pace: 97


The bitter irony is he argues that production makes AD as good or even better than peak Shaq, yet insists Kobe is better than LeBron. You seriously cannot make this shit up :lol

tpols, not gonna respond to this? How convenient of you to ignore these points.

[3ba11]

Only Lebron has sidekicks that destroy league MVP's like Bosh in the 11' ECF, or Kyrie in the Finals, or AD in the 20' WCF

Sidekicks destroying league MVP = most help possible and only Lebron had it

[1987_Lakers]

Only Lebron has sidekicks that destroy league MVP's like Bosh in the 11' ECF, or Kyrie in the Finals, or AD in the 20' WCF

Sidekicks destroying league MVP = most help possible and only Lebron had it

You forgot Pippen destroying Magic.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eibq7MpTAvE

[GrayGoat]

Only Lebron has sidekicks that destroy league MVP's like Bosh in the 11' ECF, or Kyrie in the Finals, or AD in the 20' WCF

Sidekicks destroying league MVP = most help possible and only Lebron had it
Shaq had Kobe

[Johnny32]

Only Lebron has sidekicks that destroy league MVP's like Bosh in the 11' ECF, or Kyrie in the Finals, or AD in the 20' WCF

Sidekicks destroying league MVP = most help possible and only Lebron had it

rose shot 35% in the ecf because of le1thru5.

"It's hard where a guy, he's running at top speed, he can easily catch up with you," Rose said. "It's extremely hard where a 6-8 guy can easily defend you."