Is there a player that mattered more to his franchise than Dirk and the Mavs?

[AirBonner]

MJ probably but anyone else?

[TheCorporation]

Boston = Bill Russell
Chicago = Scottie Pippen
Dallas = Dirk Nowitzki
Cleveland = LeBron James

[AirBonner]

Boston = Bill Russell
Chicago = Scottie Pippen
Dallas = Dirk Nowitzki
Cleveland = LeBron James

Warriors = Iggy

[John8204]

Wes Unseld - Washington Bullets
Bob Pettitt - St Louis Hawks
Tim Duncan - Spurs

[FultzNationRISE]

You could argue Reggie Miller is up there with Dirk in terms of longevity and exclusivity of being the franchise identity.

And obviously Lebron for the Cavs in terms of general importance.

[000]

Lebron was more impactful for the Mavs

[PeroAntic]

Boston = Bill Russell
Chicago = Scottie Pippen
Dallas = Dirk Nowitzki
Cleveland = LeBron James

:oldlol:

The man bailed on them... not once but twice lol

[HunterSThompson]

Boston = Bill Russell
Chicago = Scottie Pippen
Dallas = Dirk Nowitzki
Cleveland = LeBron James


Dallas = jj barea

[SpaceJam]

Hakeem

[Akeem34TheDream]

Obviously Duncan. Duncan is the goat franchise player.

[HunterSThompson]

Obviously Duncan. Duncan is the goat franchise player.

the spurs are a joke with a shit fan base. the bulls sold out for over a decade after jordan retired and the minute they had a good player again they gave him the mvp and now that they have a 2nd great player he might also get mvp and is leading the east guards in voting when on the Raptors and spurs he was a nobody to fans around the world

jordan elevated the bulls brand. Duncan didn't elevate the spurs. just look at how kawhi shit on them and the city and now cuckovich has them about to become the first franchise to have a female head coach that's probly got trained by half the roster already.

nobody wants to go there. their titles meant nothing. Duncan's a top 10 player ever but he flew under the radar his entire career and never really faced any criticism. he didn't have any adversity. he wasn't a compelling story

[Akeem34TheDream]

the spurs are a joke with a shit fan base. the bulls sold out for over a decade after jordan retired and the minute they had a good player again they gave him the mvp and now that they have a 2nd great player he might also get mvp and is leading the east guards in voting when on the Raptors and spurs he was a nobody to fans around the world

jordan elevated the bulls brand. Duncan didn't elevate the spurs. just look at how kawhi shit on them and the city and now cuckovich has them about to become the first franchise to have a female head coach that's probly got trained by half the roster already.

nobody wants to go there. their titles meant nothing. Duncan's a top 10 player ever but he flew under the radar his entire career and never really faced any criticism. he didn't have any adversity. he wasn't a compelling story

I'm not american but i am pretty sure Chicago is a bigger market than San antonio. New york is still one of the biggest franchises. Is it because of a player or the city itself?
Bulls always had a drama when Jordan was around. Always some bs either with coach, gm or between players. Spurs had nothing all those years, NONE. First thing was Kawhi and Duncan was retired by then. Duncan brought such a winning culture that he made people believe it was a perfect organization and coaching. Like Duncan lucked out into the best franchise, when the truth was he was simply the easiest superstar to build a team around ever.
Now, Jordan was the better player easily but Duncan's impact has been more to his franchise. If Pop didn't pull him out in 2013 finals he might had 6 titles.

[Hey Yo]

:oldlol:

The man bailed on them... not once but twice lol

So did Jordan.

[kawhileonard2]

So did Jordan.

After two three peats. Like saying Magic bailed on the lakers or Russell on the Celtics.

[kawhileonard2]

Cleveland = Mark Price/Brad Daugherty/Kyrie Irving

[Vino24]

Raptors- Kyle Lowry

[rmt]

the spurs are a joke with a shit fan base. the bulls sold out for over a decade after jordan retired and the minute they had a good player again they gave him the mvp and now that they have a 2nd great player he might also get mvp and is leading the east guards in voting when on the Raptors and spurs he was a nobody to fans around the world

jordan elevated the bulls brand. Duncan didn't elevate the spurs. just look at how kawhi shit on them and the city and now cuckovich has them about to become the first franchise to have a female head coach that's probly got trained by half the roster already.

nobody wants to go there. their titles meant nothing. Duncan's a top 10 player ever but he flew under the radar his entire career and never really faced any criticism. he didn't have any adversity. he wasn't a compelling story

Duncan didn't elevate the spurs/nobody wants to go there - they have gone down now that he has retired. But over the 18 years that Duncan was there, the Spurs were a model franchise with the highest winning percentage (~70%) in ALL major sports (not just NBA).

Their titles meant nothing? - since when are titles invalidated. 5 titles - and Duncan's the major reason why.

[TheCorporation]

:oldlol:

The man bailed on them... not once but twice lol

Um...This is awkward.

You DO know Jordan retired THREE times right? :lol

[HunterSThompson]

I'm not american but i am pretty sure Chicago is a bigger market than San antonio. New york is still one of the biggest franchises. Is it because of a player or the city itself?
Bulls always had a drama when Jordan was around. Always some bs either with coach, gm or between players. Spurs had nothing all those years, NONE. First thing was Kawhi and Duncan was retired by then. Duncan brought such a winning culture that he made people believe it was a perfect organization and coaching. Like Duncan lucked out into the best franchise, when the truth was he was simply the easiest superstar to build a team around ever.
Now, Jordan was the better player easily but Duncan's impact has been more to his franchise. If Pop didn't pull him out in 2013 finals he might had 6 titles.

its not just about the market. the Nets even in Brooklyn with 3 of the biggest names in basketball still have half empty stadiums and their crowd cheers for opposing teams best players. the bulls were a joke before jordan got there. Vancouver was one of the top markets and they couldn't even keep the grizzlies. if the team is an embarrassing place to play or go see games then nothing can save them except a transcendental player. Duncan was amazing as a talent. but as a star he was never must see TV or worth paying to go see. he could barely fill a coffee shop for an autograph signing

[Stephonit]

Right before Steph was given the reins to to the Warriors, the team was sold for $450 million. Now the Golden State Warriors are estimated to be worth around $6 billion. Steph can be credited for a significant part of that $5.5 billion give or take increase in franchise value.

[HoopsNY]

This is actually a great thread. I guess the first thing would be to define "matter" or importance. Is it just championships? Or does it include more like wins, playoff wins, finals appearances, ticket sales, viewership, jersey sales, etc.

Some obvious names that come to mind include Russell, Kareem (Millwaukee), Havlicek, Bird, MJ, Hakeem, Duncan, Dirk, LeBron, and Steph. Interested to read everyone's takes (at least the mature ones).

[HoopsNY]

Right before Steph was given the reins to to the Warriors, the team was sold for $450 million. Now the Golden State Warriors are estimated to be worth around $6 billion. Steph can be credited for a significant part of that $5.5 billion give or take increase in franchise value.

This is another one, an ability to raise the franchise value. Would be interesting to see how much the franchise was valued before the player arrived, and what the franchise was valued at their retirement or at least when the player left or declined.

[expansionera]

Celtics - Russell/Bird
Bulls - Pippen
Cavs - Bron
Pistons - IT
Warriors - Curry
Rockets - Hakeem
Pacers - Miller
Lakers - West/Magic/Kobe
Bucks - Giannis
Spurs - Duncan
Jazz - Stockton
Wizards - Unseld

[000]

Right before Steph was given the reins to to the Warriors, the team was sold for $450 million. Now the Golden State Warriors are estimated to be worth around $6 billion. Steph can be credited for a significant part of that $5.5 billion give or take increase in franchise value.

:applause:

[Spurs m8]

the spurs are a joke with a shit fan base. the bulls sold out for over a decade after jordan retired and the minute they had a good player again they gave him the mvp and now that they have a 2nd great player he might also get mvp and is leading the east guards in voting when on the Raptors and spurs he was a nobody to fans around the world

jordan elevated the bulls brand. Duncan didn't elevate the spurs. just look at how kawhi shit on them and the city and now cuckovich has them about to become the first franchise to have a female head coach that's probly got trained by half the roster already.

nobody wants to go there. their titles meant nothing. Duncan's a top 10 player ever but he flew under the radar his entire career and never really faced any criticism. he didn't have any adversity. he wasn't a compelling story

Their titles very much meant something and for 2 decades they were a model franchise.

Sorry we hurt you with our success

[HunterSThompson]

Their titles very much meant something and for 2 decades they were a model franchise.

Sorry we hurt you with our success

yeah to a hardcore basketball fan the spurs and Duncan were great. but to a casual fan they were insignificant and for the franchise going forward none of what happened from 1999 to 2014 mattered because they can't attract or keep anyone so how was Duncan more important to them than Jordan was to Chicago.

in fact jordan is arguably more important to most of the nbas franchises than any player that has ever played for those franchises.. only teams like the bulls or Celtics and few others could have gotten to where they are without Jordan's impact on the nba. which is why even Miami retired his number. and the mavs retired kobes to signify his world wide value to the game and its history. Duncan didn't elevate the nba or the spurs. he's just an all time great top 10 all time player and the spurs were one of the best and most consistent teams for their time. but all of that is in the past and now theyre basically starting from scratch

[Spurs m8]

yeah to a hardcore basketball fan the spurs and Duncan were great. but to a casual fan they were insignificant and for the franchise going forward none of what happened from 1999 to 2014 mattered because they can't attract or keep anyone so how was Duncan more important to them than Jordan was to Chicago.

in fact jordan is arguably more important to most of the nbas franchises than any player that has ever played for those franchises.. only teams like the bulls or Celtics and few others could have gotten to where they are without Jordan's impact on the nba. which is why even Miami retired his number. and the mavs retired kobes to signify his world wide value to the game and its history. Duncan didn't elevate the nba or the spurs. he's just an all time great top 10 all time player and the spurs were one of the best and most consistent teams for their time. but all of that is in the past and now theyre basically starting from scratch

The fact theyre a small market is a MASSIVE part of why they're having trouble sustaining it.
Plus the front office went to shit, as well.

I'm also not dusputing that MJ was probably the most important....

I am disputing Tim and the Spurs being insignificant though.

It's healthy that a small market team had some solid success...healthy for the league

[AirBonner]

Yao Ming on the rockets might be the BIGGEST

[HunterSThompson]

The fact theyre a small market is a MASSIVE part of why they're having trouble sustaining it.
Plus the front office went to shit, as well.

I'm also not dusputing that MJ was probably the most important....

I am disputing Tim and the Spurs being insignificant though.

It's healthy that a small market team had some solid success...healthy for the league

to casuals they're insignificant. I was a big raptor fan after kobe retired and followed them every game during the kawhi title season and even il admit they're totally insignificant to the history of the nba. kawhi is like Tim. he's not popular at all. the Raptors outside of Canada is must NOT see TV to any American

the Raptors might not get another nationally televised game for a decade. that title meant nothing to building the Raptors brand

[Spurs m8]

I get that...and that Raps season was 1 year.
They haven't done much else ever.

But the spurs run was 2 decade of being a highly respected franchise who were quite relevant, for the most part.

I think Tim and that era of the Spurs will always be remembered and respected.

[Hey Yo]

They'll be remembered most for losing to an 8th seed in the first round.

[HunterSThompson]

I get that...and that Raps season was 1 year.
They haven't done much else ever.

But the spurs run was 2 decade of being a highly respected franchise who were quite relevant, for the most part.

I think Tim and that era of the Spurs will always be remembered and respected.

i dunno I feel like if I went to a random pub and asked everyone there what they thought about the spurs like 9 out of 10 people would be like "what's that a basketball team" and after I said yes they would say "I dunno lol I haven't watched basketball in a while. not since kobe and shaq back in 2004"

that's literally the average person over the age of 30


and then the few people that do watch basketball still randomly would be like "oh yeah Tim Duncan. I heard of him. lebron though... maaaaan... he's niiice. da goat? what you say. him or jordan. and don't bring up kobe!"



the average person literally doesn't care about the spurs or duncan

[AirBonner]

Everyone in Asia knows Yao Ming. And since they have the most people yao wins. The rockets were huge back then

[Gohan]

Cleveland = Mark Price/Brad Daugherty/Kyrie Irving

Iverson to philly