Who’s better, current LeBron or Prime Kobe?

[Dray n Klay]

The stats say current LeBron is a better scorer, rebounder, playmaker with higher FG% than Prime Kobe

[expansionera]

Kobe is the better perimeter defender, but Lebron is anchoring the rim protection at age 38 on a playoff Western Conference team (prime Kobe missed playoffs). I have to even given the nod defensively to Lebron at this stage in his career given to his versatility and the importance of two way play at the center position.

[HunterSThompson]

I'd say kobe just cause of the defense. but lebrons definitely having his best season ever offensively. I would put it on the same level as kobes 2013 year. dunno about 2003, 2006, or 2007 kobe though. those versions could average 40. has lebron even gotten to 40 yet this year

btw as good as lebron is (his best version offensively ever) he's still not on jokic, giannis or durants level.

I will however admit that lebron right now is slightly better than curry ever was. I thought 2012 to 2018 was his run as being better than curry. but he reclaimed that juice to put him over the top again. good job. good effort. no really. he's the best ever at keeping himself in top physical condition. I can't wait to see him pass 40k averaging 30/8/9/2/2 on 54% shooting

[Phoenix]

I'd say kobe just cause of the defense. but lebrons definitely having his best season ever offensively.

Just in the last 5 years, I'd argue Lebron's 2018 season was better offensively. 27.5ppg along with 9 assists and similar TS%, then 34ppg in the playoffs with multiple game winners and peaking with 51 against the Warriors in the finals. I don't see in the same situation current Lebron sustaining *that* over 82 games and a deep playoff run.

[Gohan]

Id take prime kobe over prime lebron, only if i want to win though

[TheCorporation]

If I want to blow a 3-1 lead, it's 2006 Prime Kobe

[Full Court]

Take your pick. Both are fringe top-10ers.

[HunterSThompson]

Just in the last 5 years, I'd argue Lebron's 2018 season was better offensively. 27.5ppg along with 9 assists and similar TS%, then 34ppg in the playoffs with multiple game winners and peaking with 51 against the Warriors in the finals. I don't see in the same situation current Lebron sustaining *that* over 82 games and a deep playoff run.

like I said yesterday. lebron was too beta at the time. remember how the refs had to help him past Indiana and Boston. then he choked game 1 of OT. got soft picked off Durant to lose game 3 then quit game 4 for the finals sweep.

he was shook as hell. he forgot to call timeout too you know. and he was closer to the ref. then he asked if they had a timeout and the coach said yes. then he started crying


pathetic


2022 >>>>>> 2018

[Spurs m8]

Take your pick. Both are fringe top-10ers.

This

[LAL]

I'd say kobe just cause of the defense. but lebrons definitely having his best season ever offensively. I would put it on the same level as kobes 2013 year. dunno about 2003, 2006, or 2007 kobe though. those versions could average 40. has lebron even gotten to 40 yet this year

btw as good as lebron is (his best version offensively ever) he's still not on jokic, giannis or durants level.

I will however admit that lebron right now is slightly better than curry ever was. I thought 2012 to 2018 was his run as being better than curry. but he reclaimed that juice to put him over the top again. good job. good effort. no really. he's the best ever at keeping himself in top physical condition. I can't wait to see him pass 40k averaging 30/8/9/2/2 on 54% shooting

You're funny as **** :oldlol:

[MadDog]

Prime Kobe was better. Adjusting for the era, a better scorer and defender.

[Phoenix]

like I said yesterday. lebron was too beta at the time. remember how the refs had to help him past Indiana and Boston. then he choked game 1 of OT. got soft picked off Durant to lose game 3 then quit game 4 for the finals sweep.

he was shook as hell. he forgot to call timeout too you know. and he was closer to the ref. then he asked if they had a timeout and the coach said yes. then he started crying


pathetic


2022 >>>>>> 2018

What does any of this have to do with him being a better offensive player in the seasons being discussed?

[PeroAntic]

Kobe

[HunterSThompson]

What does any of this have to do with him being a better offensive player in the seasons being discussed?

part of being good is being good when it matters

[Phoenix]

part of being good is being good when it matters

And how are you able to determine how good 2022 Lebron is relative to 2018 'when it matters' when we aren't even halfway through the season yet?

[HunterSThompson]

And how are you able to determine how good 2022 Lebron is relative to 2018 'when it matters' when we aren't even halfway through the season yet?

the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. not f*cking up royally yet is automatically better than f*cking up royally

[Phoenix]

the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. not f*cking up royally yet is automatically better than f*cking up royally

Oh please STFU you inbreed. The only way to make any informed opinion with 2022 vs 2018 Lebron is to wait until the season ends. Would you like to argue that 2023 Lebron is better than 2018 Lebron too, a version that we haven't seen yet? What about 2024 Lebron? Stupid fukk.

[MadDog]

Oh please STFU you inbreed. The only way to make any informed opinion with 2022 vs 2018 Lebron is to wait until the season ends. Would you like to argue that 2023 Lebron is better than 2018 Lebron too, a version that we haven't seen yet? What about 2024 Lebron? Stupid fukk.

Yeah why give this season benefit of the doubt? He's 37, not 34. :confusedshrug: We don't know how he'll play in the second half, or the playoffs...assuming the Lakers even get there. The fanboys will whine over his "injury" last year (not gonna entertain them), but there was visible decline in the postseason. The 4 games prior to that Phoenix series, he looked pretty good. And then a dropoff.

[HunterSThompson]

Oh please STFU you inbreed. The only way to make any informed opinion with 2022 vs 2018 Lebron is to wait until the season ends. Would you like to argue that 2023 Lebron is better than 2018 Lebron too, a version that we haven't seen yet? What about 2024 Lebron? Stupid fukk.

so far lebrons come up big for the lakers with them needing him to step up. the 2018 cavs had a pretty easy path to the playoffs. i'm more impressed by this season cause theres real adversity

and i havent seen any crazy ref take overs like in 2018 either. its refreshing. and why are you so flustered. no need to get snooty

[SouBeachTalents]

Yeah why give this season benefit of the doubt? He's 37, not 34. :confusedshrug: We don't know how he'll play in the second half, or the playoffs...assuming the Lakers even get there. The fanboys will whine over his "injury" last year (not gonna entertain them), but there was visible decline in the postseason. The 4 games prior to that Phoenix series, he looked pretty good. And then a dropoff.
Nah, he looked like a shell of himself athletically in the play in game too

[Thenameless]

Prime Kobe, but for a different reason than most. Lebron is actually playing a little better - let's get that out of the way. But, I'd prefer a guy in his prime because of injury proneness.

Lebron used to be the Iron Man. But, the last few years, he's been getting nicked up regularly and I think some of that is due to age. As good as a player is, if he's missing games, he's hurting your team.

[ImKobe]

It's obviously Kobe, I'd take 2013 Kobe over current Lebron and in a heart beat, he started the 2012-13 season out averaging 31/5/5/2 on 59.3%TS in 32 games and then shifted into playing PG with all the injuries and averaged 29/6/7 post-ASB to lead them to a top 5 record post-ASB and the Playoffs after all the injuries.

[Dray n Klay]

It's obviously Kobe, I'd take 2013 Kobe over current Lebron and in a heart beat, he started the 2012-13 season out averaging 31/5/5/2 on 59.3%TS in 32 games and then shifted into playing PG with all the injuries and averaged 29/6/7 post-ASB to lead them to a top 5 record post-ASB and the Playoffs after all the injuries.

But 2013 Kobe missed the playoffs...

[ImKobe]

But 2013 Kobe missed the playoffs...

They were in the Playoffs after the Warriors game so you're wrong.

[Dray n Klay]

They were in the Playoffs after the Warriors game so you're wrong.

Kobe didnt finish that game. Lakers were the 9th seed at the time Kobe was playing. So he missed the playoffs.

[ImKobe]

Kobe didnt finish that game. Lakers were the 9th seed at the time Kobe was playing. So he missed the playoffs.

He played over 30 minutes and they won, so he was in the POs you moron.

[Dray n Klay]

He played over 30 minutes and they won, so he was in the POs you moron.

Show me his playoff highlights

[Axe]

They were in the Playoffs after the Warriors game so you're wrong.
So kobe played against the spurs in the first round way back in 2013?

[ImKobe]

So kobe played against the spurs in the first round way back in 2013?

He led them to the Playoffs. Getting injured doesn't mean you miss the Playoffs when you helped your team get there, moron.

[Axe]

He led them to the Playoffs. Getting injured doesn't mean you miss the Playoffs when you helped your team get there, moron.
I was just asking. Why the tears, amigo. :confusedshrug:

[kawhileonard2]

Kobe didnt finish that game. Lakers were the 9th seed at the time Kobe was playing. So he missed the playoffs.

Lebron missed the playoffs with a stacked squad and won bronze medal. Only won in the olympics once Kobe came.

[ImKobe]

I was just asking. Why the tears, amigo. :confusedshrug:

Maybe stop being retarded and actually have a legitimate basketball discussion for once? If you want to shitpost go on reddit.

[Phoenix]

so far lebrons come up big for the lakers with them needing him to step up. the 2018 cavs had a pretty easy path to the playoffs. i'm more impressed by this season cause theres real adversity

and i havent seen any crazy ref take overs like in 2018 either. its refreshing. and why are you so flustered. no need to get snooty

Flustered? Please. One can only tolerate so much bullshit but that's my fault for giving your comments any time and energy in the first place.

[Bronbron23]

The stats say current LeBron is a better scorer, rebounder, playmaker with higher FG% than Prime Kobe

Kobe easily. He drew way more defensive attention.

[HoopsNY]

Prime Kobe. If prime Kobe plays in this era, he's putting up 35/7/7/2 on great efficiency. Not to mention he'd be one of the best defensive players in the league.

[Johnny32]

Prime Kobe. If prime Kobe plays in this era, he's putting up 35/7/7/2 on great efficiency. Not to mention he'd be one of the best defensive players in the league.

kobe's probably the most overrated defender in nba history. his advanced defensive stats are laughable.

[HoopsNY]

kobe's probably the most overrated defender in nba history. his advanced defensive stats are laughable.

Maybe so, but it doesn't take away from him potentially being one of the best defensive players in today's game.

Kobe had the size and athleticism to guard 4 positions in today's game. And depending on who's playing the 5, he'd guard that too.

He had the speed and lateral quickness similar to Klay but even better. He'd be a lock for All-Defensive 1st Team, with some DPOY votes.

[TheGoatest]

Prime Kobe. If prime Kobe plays in this era, he's putting up 35/7/7/2 on great efficiency. Not to mention he'd be one of the best defensive players in the league.

:oldlol:

Kobe + great efficiency = https://images4.imagebam.com/81/2b/e7/ME68Q2P_o.gif

20 seasons played and didn't shoot 47% once in his career.

[HoopsNY]

:oldlol:

Kobe + great efficiency = https://images4.imagebam.com/81/2b/e7/ME68Q2P_o.gif

20 seasons played and didn't shoot 47% once in his career.

Kobe played in a much tougher defensive era. Keep in mind, he came into the league in 1996. He won the scoring title shooting 45% and 46%, respectively.

Kobe '06: 45% | 35% | 85%
kobe '07: 46% | 34% | 87%

PS '06-'07: 48% | 38% | 84%

So why wouldn't he put up great efficiency? I guess it boils down to what is great efficiency to you. I think it's entirely reasonable that Kobe puts up 48%/36%/87% in today's game. That would probably equal something just shy of a 59% TS%.

[Johnny32]

Maybe so, but it doesn't take away from him potentially being one of the best defensive players in today's game.

Kobe had the size and athleticism to guard 4 positions in today's game. And depending on who's playing the 5, he'd guard that too.

He had the speed and lateral quickness similar to Klay but even better. He'd be a lock for All-Defensive 1st Team, with some DPOY votes.

he has a career negative dbpm. he had one season in his career as good as lebron's this season. he made all nba def teams because he plays aggressive on ball defense that impresses casual basketball minds.

[TheGoatest]

Kobe played in a much tougher defensive era. Keep in mind, he came into the league in 1996. He won the scoring title shooting 45% and 46%, respectively.

Kobe '06: 45% | 35% | 85%
kobe '07: 46% | 34% | 87%

PS '06-'07: 48% | 38% | 84%

So why wouldn't he put up great efficiency? I guess it boils down to what is great efficiency to you. I think it's entirely reasonable that Kobe puts up 48%/36%/87% in today's game. That would probably equal something just shy of a 59% TS%.

A 3rd year 6'4 Dwyane Wade shot .495 in 2005-06. Peak 6'6 Kobe shot .450 that season.

[HoopsNY]

A 3rd year 6'4 Dwyane Wade shot .495 in 2005-06. Peak 6'6 Kobe shot .450 that season.

Yea, and? Kobe got way more defensive attention. If you recall, his team was garbage those years. 2006 Wade had Shaq on his team amongst much better role players.

The point still stands. If Kobe is doing 46% those years, then it's not entirely unreasonable he shoots 48/36/87 in today's game. I also noticed you ignored his postseason splits those years as well.

Look I get it, you guys are diehard LeBron fans and hate Kobe. Great. No one is saying Kobe > LeBron here. But to put this version of LeBron over prime Kobe is absurd.

[TheGoatest]

Yea, and? Kobe got way more defensive attention. If you recall, his team was garbage those years. 2006 Wade had Shaq on his team amongst much better role players.

The point still stands. If Kobe is doing 46% those years, then it's not entirely unreasonable he shoots 48/36/87 in today's game. I also noticed you ignored his postseason splits those years as well.

Look I get it, you guys are diehard LeBron fans and hate Kobe. Great. No one is saying Kobe > LeBron here. But to put this version of LeBron over prime Kobe is absurd.

Wade had trash teammates in 2008-09 (first season after Shaq), got all the defensive attention and then some. Still shot .491. Again, the highest Kobe ever shot was .469.

To put "Kobe" and "great efficiency" in the same sentence is absurd.

[Johnny32]

steph curry has a better dbpm for his career than kobe. i'll say it one more time. most overrated defender in nba history.

[TheGoatest]

steph curry has a better dbpm for his career than kobe. i'll say it one more time. most overrated defender in nba history.

I've heard Kobe fans admit that several of his latter all-defensive 1st team selections are crap.
But in a way I can understand why he got them. It's so much easier to get an all-defensive spot as a G, where you can get selected on name recognition alone since few really pay attention to the defense of guards. Whereas it's so much more difficult to get selected as a F, where you have to compete with the likes of Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett.

[HoopsNY]

Wade had trash teammates in 2008-09 (first season after Shaq), got all the defensive attention and then some. Still shot .491. Again, the highest Kobe ever shot was .469.

To put "Kobe" and "great efficiency" in the same sentence is absurd.

Nice try. Stop being stubborn. Kobe neared 47% several times in his career. To think that a prime version of him would be incapable of putting up 48% in today's game is silly.

Furthermore, look at the shooting splits of Wade vs. Kobe from 2009 and 2006-07 from 10-16 ft, 16-29 ft, and 3P based on FGA.

Wade '09: 9% | 33% | 16%

Kobe '06-'07: 14% | 31% | 24%

Wade shot the ball beyond 10 ft 57% of the time, whereas Kobe shot beyond 10 ft 70% of the time, so obviously Wade could put up a few % points higher than Kobe. You're not being fair.

[TheGoatest]

Yeah, he "neared" 47%, which should've been his lower field goal percentages.

The rest of your argument is pure crap. You might as well say that a player who shoots nothing but 75 foot shots has an excuse for shooting .003 because he takes extremely difficult shots.
If a player is capable of getting better, higher percentage shots, then that should count in favor of that player, not against him when he's compared to a player who takes less efficient shots.

[Johnny32]

Wade shot the ball beyond 10 ft 57% of the time, whereas Kobe shot beyond 10 ft 70% of the time, so obviously Wade could put up a few % points higher than Kobe. You're not being fair.

kobe settles for bad shots...we know.

[HoopsNY]

Yeah, he "neared" 47%, which should've been his lower field goal percentages.

The rest of your argument is pure crap. You might as well say that a player who shoots nothing but 75 foot shots has an excuse for shooting .003 because he takes extremely difficult shots.
If a player is capable of getting better, higher percentage shots, then that should count in favor of that player, not against him when he's compared to a player who takes less efficient shots.

We're not evaluating peak Wade and peak Kobe here. Furthermore, the fact that Wade put up 49% doesn't do anything for your argument. All it tells us is that Wade - too - would shoot a higher percentage if he's at his peak in this era.

So like peak Kobe shooting 48% (which is literally 1.1% points higher than his highest FG%s), peak Wade would do even higher than that. So how does any of this help your argument?

[ImKobe]

07-10 Playoffs
Kobe: 30 ppg 46.4%FG/56.8%TS
Lebron: 29 ppg 45.4%FG/56.1%TS
Wade: 29 ppg 47.6%FG/57.1%TS

Take into account that Kobe shot more 3s and Lebron & Wade, he actually shot better than Lebron on 2s in this stretch and took .4 more 3PA on better efficiency and Lebron's TS% was still lower despite 3.3 more FTA.

[TheGoatest]

We're not evaluating peak Wade and peak Kobe here. Furthermore, the fact that Wade put up 49% doesn't do anything for your argument. All it tells us is that Wade - too - would shoot a higher percentage if he's at his peak in this era.

So like peak Kobe shooting 48% (which is literally 1.1% points higher than his highest FG%s), peak Wade would do even higher than that. So how does any of this help your argument?

You said that he shot 49% because he played with Shaq and got less defensive attention. But he shot 49% the first year he played without Shaq. And this somehow not only doesn't help my argument but makes it worse? :oldlol:

You mentioning Shaq was actually perfect, because just like Wade Kobe himself played with Shaq for several years. An even better version of Shaq who unlike the one who played with Wade ACTUALLY got the bulk of the defensive attention. Yet Kobe could never shoot 47% a single one of those years. With Shaq, without Shaq, he was just inefficient.

[HoopsNY]

You said that he shot 49% because he played with Shaq and got less defensive attention. But he shot 49% the first year he played without Shaq. And this somehow not only doesn't help my argument but makes it worse? :oldlol:

You mentioning Shaq was actually perfect, because just like Wade Kobe himself played with Shaq for several years. An even better version of Shaq who unlike the one who played with Wade ACTUALLY got the bulk of the defensive attention. Yet Kobe could never shoot 47% a single one of those years. With Shaq, without Shaq, he was just inefficient.

Fair point, but you're still grasping at straws while isolating data. You're focusing only on the 2008-2009 season, which is to Wade's credit (I agree). But look at the sample from when Shaq was actually on the team, with the amount of games that he missed between 2005-2008.

Wade w/o Shaq: 88 games | 47.5 FG% | 24% 3pt % | 56% TS%

Kobe's TS% between 2005-2010 was also 56%. You're splitting hairs here for no reason. Fact remains, if prime Kobe AND prime Wade were in this era, then they'd both see a rise in their efficiency.

[MadDog]

Again, the answer here is Kobe. He was efficient relative to his era, and at his peak, Kobe put up 32-35 on 57%TS. Then there's defense, which we know LeBron plays zero of. Depending on the years, peak and prime Kobe is comparable to peak and prime LeBron. Sorry, but this version of LeBron doesn't hold a candle.


steph curry has a better dbpm for his career than kobe. i'll say it one more time. most overrated defender in nba history.

You do know "dbpm" only tracks steals and blocks. Right? Kobe is a career + in DRAPM, which accounts for on-ball and help defense.

[ImKobe]

Again, the answer here is Kobe. He was efficient relative to his era, and at his peak, Kobe put up 32-35 on 57%TS. Then there's defense, which we know LeBron plays zero of. Depending on the years, peak and prime Kobe is comparable to peak and prime LeBron. Sorry, but this version of LeBron doesn't hold a candle.



You do know "dbpm" only tracks steals and blocks. Right? Kobe is a career + in DRAPM, which accounts for on-ball and help defense.

DBPM is also based on rebounding numbers which can also be very misleading.
Look at Westbrook's DBPM numbers. He was never a good defensive player but he had a stretch there in the mid/late-2010s where his DBPM numbers would lead you to believe that he was elite on that end, but if you watched the games he would often leave his man open to go for the rebound and he's always been prone to making mistakes on the defensive end in crunch time. Klay is an example of someone who's a really good defensive player but his DBPM numbers don't show it as he doesn't chase rebounds or steals. In fact, he's never had a positive DBPM season, though we know he was above-average to elite on the defensive end as a guard.

[Johnny32]

craig ehlo with his 3.6 rpg, 1.1 spg and 0.3 bpg has a much better dbpm than kobe. but it's a rebounding, blocks and steals stat lol.

[Johnny32]

lindsey hunter - 2.2 rpg, 1.2 spg, 0.2 bpg, much better dbpm than plz wuv my kobe.

[Johnny32]

rafer alston - 2.5 rpg, 1.2 spg, 0.2 bpg...you guessed it...much better dbpm than coby 'don't call me karl' bryant.

[Johnny32]

muggsy bogues - 2.6 rpg, 1.5 spg, 0.0 bpg...much better dbpm than garter snake bryant.


LeDONE.

[Spurs m8]

Why is Johnny melting down so early in the day?

Calm down, bro

[Johnny32]

Why is Johnny melting down so early in the day?

Calm down, bro

you live on this board, don't you?

[Johnny32]

rafer alston - 2.5 rpg, 1.2 spg, 0.2 bpg...you guessed it...much better dbpm than coby 'don't call me karl' bryant.

speaking of coby karl. he and bryant have the same dbpm for their careers lol.

[Johnny32]

steve kerr - 1.2 rpg, 0.5 spg, 0.1 bpg...much better dbpm than kobe.

[MrFonzworth]

Take your pick. Both are fringe top-10ers.

This.