Stacey King: I didn’t like the way Pippen was portrayed in Jordan documentary

[TheGoatest]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/stacey-king-didn-t-way-110114577.html

Another one of Jordan's teammates exposing that Joseph Goebbels-approved, Leni Riefenstahl-made piece of propaganda dogshyt "documentary" for what it is. :applause:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQJH8RJX4AA4i05?format=jpg&name=large

[Spurs m8]

Still the GOAT and it kills you

[AirBonner]

Still the GOAT and it kills you

1st reply every time

[Axe]

Another day, another thread where baldone continues to give op dayly nightmares. :sleeping

[SpaceJam]

HAHAHA forgot about the hitler stache

[TheGoatest]

HAHAHA forgot about the hitler stache

It's no surprise that he decided to make such a blatantly lying, pro-self piece of propaganda, just like Hitler used to commission:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-3Ls43emv3tw/UoYJ0aKIi8I/AAAAAAAAAOM/bBJTjPv_R38/s1600/Abbildung1.jpg

[HoopsNY]

I'm not sure what King said, but if he did say this, then I do believe he's correct. Pippen's woes were highlighted throughout the docuseries. From the migraine, to being bullied by Charles Oakley, to his problems with his contract, sitting out a big shot, his back problems, sabotaging the team, etc.

While all of the aforementioned is true of Pippen, his contributions to the team were grossly overlooked. He was the best 2nd option of the '90s and doesn't get enough credit where that is concerned. He also doesn't get enough credit for keeping that team as a legitimate playoff contender and elite defense for the years that MJ didn't play.

MJ is a narcissist. He played to the highest level and worked to get to that level, but he was blessed with great instincts and godly athleticism. To dwell on the woes of his teammates like Rodman and Pippen wasn't fair, especially when in the second three-peat, there wasn't any serious opponents for a team - if healthy - would have won 70+ games all three years.

[Da_Realist]

Should the 1994 season have been brought up? You can't talk about Pippen's MVP caliber season without also talking about the playoffs and what happened there. If the doc skipped over the 94 season entirely, I have a feeling Pippen would have had an issue with that as if MJ didn't want to highlight his best season. But to talk about it also brought up the necessity of talking about the playoffs. And they could not talk about the 1994 Playoffs without talking about the 1.8 seconds.

So which would Pippen have preferred? Talk about the whole 94 season good and bad or skip over it altogether?

[tontoz]

One day Jordan saw King walking towards him with a box in his hand. Jordan said:

"I hope you got a jump shot in there".

[Da_Realist]

Toni Kukoc talked about the 1.8 seconds. Steve Kerr talked about it. John Paxson talked about it. Phil Jackson talked about it. Bill Cartwright talked about it. Horace Grant talked about it. Bill Wennington talked about it. MJ talked about it. Scottie Pippen himself talked about it.

What did they think the people creating the documentary was going to do with all those interviews? Keep them in a private stash? Scottie didn't think for 2 seconds that the documentary would cover it as he's giving his explanation on camera?

[Phoenix]

What I don't understand about this whole situation......MJ had creative control or whatever but wouldn't Scottie be in the loop about the contents of the documentary prior to it coming out? I would have thought especially anyone who was important enough to have their own segment would have been given heads up. Like Rodman had his own episode and it went in-depth on some of the issues keeping him reined it, but you don't hear him going off about it a year later.

[HoopsNY]

What I don't understand about this whole situation......MJ had creative control or whatever but wouldn't Scottie be in the loop about the contents of the documentary prior to it coming out? I would have thought especially anyone who was important enough to have their own segment would have been given heads up. Like Rodman had his own episode and it went in-depth on some of the issues keeping him reined it, but you don't hear him going off about it a year later.

Yea, this is a good point. Pippen chose to throw himself under the bus numerous times in the docuseries, so for that he has no one to blame but himself.

I just feel like after watching the docuseries, Pippen seemed to be more of a liability than an asset. Yes, MJ said that there is no MJ without Pippen and he couldn't have done it without him, but the docuseries still seemed to dwell on a lot of mishaps that happened with Pippen.

Case in point, the docuseries spoke about MJ's first retirement, but didn't dwell on the fact that MJ retired three weeks before the season began, leaving Chicago to scramble for a replacement and having to settle for Pete Myers.

Yet the docuseries dwelled on Pippen postponing his surgery until the season began in 1998. So who looked worse when comparing the two? Both teams were returning champions. Both teams saw their star players make a selfish move, yet one player was demonized for it.

[Johnny32]

What I don't understand about this whole situation......MJ had creative control or whatever but wouldn't Scottie be in the loop about the contents of the documentary prior to it coming out? I would have thought especially anyone who was important enough to have their own segment would have been given heads up. Like Rodman had his own episode and it went in-depth on some of the issues keeping him reined it, but you don't hear him going off about it a year later.

rodman embraces his crazy image. i haven't watched the fluff piece so idk how pippen was portrayed.

[expansionera]

Only a narcissist would produce their own documentary, I haven’t seen that garbage but I did see that Colin Kaepernick autodocumentary series and felt no matter how truthful the contents of the production something designed by the subject could not help but be self serving.

[97 bulls]

What I don't understand about this whole situation......MJ had creative control or whatever but wouldn't Scottie be in the loop about the contents of the documentary prior to it coming out? I would have thought especially anyone who was important enough to have their own segment would have been given heads up. Like Rodman had his own episode and it went in-depth on some of the issues keeping him reined it, but you don't hear him going off about it a year later.

We don't know how long the interview with Pippen was. Obviously he knew that 1.8 seconds would be discussed. But why not mention he finished 3rd in MVP voting and 2nd in DPOY award in the two years Jordan left? Why leave out one of the most controversial calls in sports history? That Hue Hollins call was just as big as the Pippen sitting out situation.

[JBSptfn]

Only a narcissist would produce their own documentary, I haven’t seen that garbage but I did see that Colin Kaepernick autodocumentary series and felt no matter how truthful the contents of the production something designed by the subject could not help but be self serving.

That's why Brian Tuohy (author of The Fix is In and Larceny Games) didn't watch it. He heard that Jordan was co-producer or something. He knew that certain subjects would be avoided, like how Jordan was told to go away from the NBA in 1993 for a time for gambling (that's not a conspiracy, that's reality).

[97 bulls]

Thinking about what happened during that Bulls run, there wasn't one thing that Jordanite hold against Jordan's teammates, that he didn't do similarly.

Rodman was given shit for going to Vegas during the Championship run, Jordan was excused for going to Atlanta to gamble during the Bulls playoff run in 92.

Pippen was selfish for opting to have surgery and rehab during the season, thus putting a strain on the Bulls run, Jordan abruptly retires less than a month before the season starts not giving the Bulls a chance to put the best possible team in place to defend their title.

Pippen is castigated for sitting out that 1.8 Seconds because he didn't get the last shot, Jordan blows up a play that Phil Jackson calls for Kukoc because the play wasn't drawn up for him in game 5 vs Utah.

[RogueBorg]

Pippen is castigated for sitting out that 1.8 Seconds because he didn't get the last shot, Jordan blows up a play that Phil Jackson calls for Kukoc because the play wasn't drawn up for him in game 5 vs Utah.

There is nothing Jordan did that was remotely close to sitting out the final 1.8 seconds. Pippen quit on his team, he went full on no mas. And the worst part is he said if he had to do all over, he would sit out again. Even if that's true you don't say it. Pippen isn't the smartest guy around.

[PeroAntic]

Lebron stans hating the MJ documentary. Shocking!

[97 bulls]

There is nothing Jordan did that was remotely close to sitting out the final 1.8 seconds. Pippen quit on his team, he went full on no mas. And the worst part is he said if he had to do all over, he would sit out again. Even if that's true you don't say it. Pippen isn't the smartest guy around.

As a former athlete myself, if the coach calls a play, and my teammate purposely sabotages the play because he's only concerned about his own glory. I'd be pissed. And I see not much of a difference. Both are selfish acts

And Jordan also decided to sabotage the team when he decided to not shoot in that playoff game vs the Pistons.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Toni Kukoc talked about the 1.8 seconds. Steve Kerr talked about it. John Paxson talked about it. Phil Jackson talked about it. Bill Cartwright talked about it. Horace Grant talked about it. Bill Wennington talked about it. MJ talked about it. Scottie Pippen himself talked about it.

What did they think the people creating the documentary was going to do with all those interviews? Keep them in a private stash? Scottie didn't think for 2 seconds that the documentary would cover it as he's giving his explanation on camera?

Word.

I only watched TLD when it aired, but didn't it cover Mike's gambling? His unwillingness to play team ball and some bad play? It even portrayed MJ as an asshole bully :lol

If Pippen had an issue then not sure why he agreed to talk about these things. Maybe he didn't believe sitting out the final seconds of a playoff game would be crucified, and by the media. That might explain his complete 180.

[FKAri]

Lebron stans hating the MJ documentary. Shocking!

Infamous Lebron stan "97 bulls" :oldlol:


That's why Brian Tuohy (author of The Fix is In and Larceny Games) didn't watch it. He heard that Jordan was co-producer or something. He knew that certain subjects would be avoided, like how Jordan was told to go away from the NBA in 1993 for a time for gambling (that's not a conspiracy, that's reality).

It's not reality. It's speculation.

[3ba11]

Stacey King was one of the biggest draft busts and underachievers that's never talked about.

He was supposed to be a skilled lefty big man - and he was - except he was soft as grapes and became another bum that MJ carried.

Ultimately, nearly every good sidekick in the 90's wasn't really a "sidekick", aka 2nd option - they took turns leading the team in scoring and stats, or both guys competed closely for the statistical lead from series to series - so it was a 1a/1b situation where the 1st and 2nd option often achieved similar stats.

SO ONLY PIPPEN WAS CARRIED IN EVERY SERIES because he never got within 10 ppg of MJ on far less efficiency, while also having a lower peak than most other sidekicks (22 ppg and always carried in every series by the 1st option, aka probably unprecedented for ANY sidekick in history).

[warriorfan]

Amazing how MJ dragged this pouting piece of shit to 6 championships. That’s the stuff GOATs are made of.

We all know if LeBron had to play with pippen it would all be about how “bron needs more help” :lol

[expansionera]

Stacey King was one of the biggest draft busts and underachievers that's never talked about.

He was supposed to be a skilled lefty big man - and he was - except he was soft as grapes and became another bum that MJ carried.

Ultimately, nearly every good sidekick in the 90's wasn't really a "sidekick", aka 2nd option - they took turns leading the team in scoring and stats, or both guys competed closely for the statistical lead from series to series - so it was a 1a/1b situation where the 1st and 2nd option often achieved similar stats.

SO ONLY PIPPEN WAS CARRIED IN EVERY SERIES because he never got within 10 ppg of MJ on far less efficiency, while also having a lower peak than most other sidekicks (22 ppg and always carried in every series by the 1st option, aka probably unprecedented for ANY sidekick in history).
Jordan stifled a lot of talent, guys like Stacey King and Bison Dele who would have ordinarily been All Star level talents became role players on extremely deep Bulls rosters.

Can’t blame a guy for not making an impact at the 4 when he’s got Hall of Famers like Dennis Rodman and Toni Kukoc soaking up major minutes there.

[guy]

I just feel like after watching the docuseries, Pippen seemed to be more of a liability than an asset. Yes, MJ said that there is no MJ without Pippen and he couldn't have done it without him, but the docuseries still seemed to dwell on a lot of mishaps that happened with Pippen.


Thats a huge exaggeration. A liability literally means they would've been better off without him. He was not presented like that at all. At worse, a large number of viewers may not think he was as great as some people make him out to be - which has been up for debate for years. Pippen is one of those guys thats constantly being argued as either underrated or overrated

The mishaps they dwelled on were big stories at the time - the migraine, sitting out that last play, and holding off surgery. Its not like these were secrets. Same thing they did with Jordan - they dwelled on the mishaps that were big stories at the time - being an asshole to play with, the gambling, and rumors of his issues being involved with his dad's death.



Case in point, the docuseries spoke about MJ's first retirement, but didn't dwell on the fact that MJ retired three weeks before the season began, leaving Chicago to scramble for a replacement and having to settle for Pete Myers.

Yet the docuseries dwelled on Pippen postponing his surgery until the season began in 1998. So who looked worse when comparing the two? Both teams were returning champions. Both teams saw their star players make a selfish move, yet one player was demonized for it.

Because it was a non-story back then and should be a non-story now if it weren't for nerds on the internet finding a way to hate on Jordan ~30 years later.

There was an old sportscenter clip on the ESPN app around the time the Last Dance aired where Stuart Scott interviews Jordan and Jordan mentions that he told Reinsdorf after the 93 finals he was thinking of retiring and Reinsdorf told him to think about it over the summer before making the decision. So if you look at the timeline, this was before Jordan's dad died. Then about a month later, Jordan's dad goes missing on July 23rd. His body wasn't identified until August 13. Jordan retired on October 6.

So Jordan retired within 2 months after his dad was confirmed dead. I think its very understandable that it took 2 months after his dad died to make a decision like that especially when he already made the owner aware of his desire to retire and the owner told him to take the whole summer to think about it. You'd have to be an asshole to be critical of something like that.

Completely different from the Pippen situation.

[97 bulls]

Thats a huge exaggeration. A liability literally means they would've been better off without him. He was not presented like that at all. At worse, a large number of viewers may not think he was as great as some people make him out to be - which has been up for debate for years. Pippen is one of those guys thats constantly being argued as either underrated or overrated

The mishaps they dwelled on were big stories at the time - the migraine, sitting out that last play, and holding off surgery. Its not like these were secrets. Same thing they did with Jordan - they dwelled on the mishaps that were big stories at the time - being an asshole to play with, the gambling, and rumors of his issues being involved with his dad's death.



Because it was a non-story back then and should be a non-story now if it weren't for nerds on the internet finding a way to hate on Jordan ~30 years later.

There was an old sportscenter clip on the ESPN app around the time the Last Dance aired where Stuart Scott interviews Jordan and Jordan mentions that he told Reinsdorf after the 93 finals he was thinking of retiring and Reinsdorf told him to think about it over the summer before making the decision. So if you look at the timeline, this was before Jordan's dad died. Then about a month later, Jordan's dad goes missing on July 23rd. His body wasn't identified until August 13. Jordan retired on October 6.

So Jordan retired within 2 months after his dad was confirmed dead. I think its very understandable that it took 2 months after his dad died to make a decision like that especially when he already made the owner aware of his desire to retire and the owner told him to take the whole summer to think about it. You'd have to be an asshole to be critical of something like that.

Completely different from the Pippen situation.

But the same logic doesn't apply to Pippen. How many assholes have given Pippen shit over the years for playing 42 minutes with migraine because he didn't play great? Totally disregarding that Pippens dad died about a month before that game 7? And I've never seen you step up and defend Pippen.

I find it funny that Pippen is always expected to put the team first regardless of a death in his family, blatant mistreatment and disrespect by management, he's supposed to turn the other cheek. Why? He's no more obligated to have surgery and rehab during the off-season than Jordan was to retire within an amount of time to give the Bulls a change to replace him competently. Especially when he's stated that he was pondering retirement almost a year before he did it.

I understand why both men made the decision that they did.

[FilmyCogTurner]

As much as the documentary gloried their success as individuals and as a team it also focused on their missteps along the way, Jordan included. A good series is filled with drama and their tenure with the Bulls had plenty of it.

I would sympathize with Pip a bit more if some of these stories were fabricated but they're not. It's what happened.

[Axe]

Jordan stifled a lot of talent, guys like Stacey King and Bison Dele who would have ordinarily been All Star level talents became role players on extremely deep Bulls rosters.

Can’t blame a guy for not making an impact at the 4 when he’s got Hall of Famers like Dennis Rodman and Toni Kukoc soaking up major minutes there.
Well, those scrub suck anyways because according to you and your main account which is none other than op, the 90s are a weak era because it's watered-down due to the expansion as well.

[97 bulls]

As much as the documentary gloried their success as individuals and as a team it also focused on their missteps along the way, Jordan included. A good series is filled with drama and their tenure with the Bulls had plenty of it.

I would sympathize with Pip a bit more if some of these stories were fabricated but they're not. It's what happened.

What individual success did the documentary mention outside of Jordan?

[FilmyCogTurner]

What individual success did the documentary mention outside of Jordan?

I dunno how about episode two. You know the one that was entirely dedicated to Scottie Pippen.

[expansionera]

Well, those scrub suck anyways because according to you and your main account which is none other than op, the 90s are a weak era because it's watered-down due to the expansion as well.

Context, just because they’d get run off the floor today doesn’t mean they weren’t good for their primitive era.

[Axe]

Context, just because they’d get run off the floor today doesn’t mean they weren’t good for their primitive era.
Liar. If that's true, then they would have gotten a ring without the aid of their ball-hogging first option bt.

[97 bulls]

I dunno how about episode two. You know the one that was entirely dedicated to Scottie Pippen.

You mean the episode dedicated to Pippen's low points? Lol.

[expansionera]

Liar. If that's true, then they would have gotten a ring without the aid of their ball-hogging first option bt.

Replacing their ball hog first option with an overseas player hurt them enough for them to win 55 games. If you replace Lebron with a literal random, not even Michael Kidd-Gilchrist tier player, in the starting lineup none of his teams in the past or today make the playoffs.

[FilmyCogTurner]

You mean the episode dedicated to Pippen's low points? Lol.

I only watched the series the one time but it felt like the first few episodes were more of a celebration of the players if anything. Then the drama was peppered in throughout the series however I definitely could be wrong and this is coming from a guy who grew up idolizing Scottie Pippen :oldlol:

[getting_old]

HAHAHA forgot about the hitler stache


Kind of only culturally archived in the Bill Buckner episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm.

[Axe]

Replacing their ball hog first option with an overseas player hurt them enough for them to win 55 games. If you replace Lebron with a literal random, not even Michael Kidd-Gilchrist tier player, in the starting lineup none of his teams in the past or today make the playoffs.
But i thought they had laughingstock competition to begin with? Therefore, they shouldn't have any excuses for not winning it all when they didn't have him for a whole season. Even moreso when they became more capable of putting in more stats for that period since he wasn't there to diminish them at all.

[Bawkish]

But i thought they had laughingstock competition to begin with? Therefore, they shouldn't have any excuses for not winning it all when they didn't have him for a whole season. Even moreso when they became more capable of putting in more stats for that period since he wasn't there to diminish them at all.

Bronstains with their double standards

They mocked the 90s weak competition but then praised the MJ-less Bulls for being competitive in that era

[Round Mound]

I didn't watch the documentary but its obvious that Pippen would be badly portrayed in a way to pump up MJ and seem as he carried scrubs to all those finals. Instead they should have showed how Pippen grew to all star level for the Bulls to win. I think MJ is the GOAT Btw but he did have the best small forward of the 90's in his team. That is also obvious.