Only 1 guy carried most important category for his entire career

[3ba11]

It isn't coincidence that it's the GOAT

if Dominique Wilkins was the only guy that did it, then it wouldn't matter

but Mr. 6/6 is the only guy that did it, aka the guy with goat winning as the best player and goat team ceiling/championship record despite the least number of teammates that were all-stars alongside him (least help).

[Johnny32]

what would lebron average if his role was to score first, hide on defense second, and pass only when you can't shoot third. 40 ppg?

[TheCorporation]

what would lebron average if his role was to score first, hide on defense second, and pass only when you can't shoot third. 40 ppg?

:roll:

Thread. Over.

[3ba11]

what would lebron average if his role was to score first, hide on defense second, and pass only when you can't shoot third. 40 ppg?


Lebron's role is to score first (he's the #1 option), and he hasn't been all-defense in a decade, so he hides on defense and gets pushed into defense by teammates.

So everything you said applies to Lebron.

Otoh, Jordan was top 5 DPOY from 88-98', including more DPOY votes than Pippen every year, while also leading Lebron in APG for the first 9 years of their respective playoff careers...

So Jordan was the main defender and only elite playmaker on his team.. while also carrying the most important category (scoring) at a singular level that no one is anywhere NEAR

[Gohan]

what would lebron average if his role was to score first, hide on defense second, and pass only when you can't shoot third. 40 ppg?

I admit it was funny.. even if you are just a lebron jizzrag

[AirBonner]

What would happen if MJ didn’t play with Pippen?

[Gohan]

What would happen if MJ didn’t play with Pippen?

He would leave in free agency to join hakeem and magic

[Hey Yo]

What would happen if MJ didn’t play with Pippen?

No chips

[3ba11]

What would happen if MJ didn’t play with Pippen?


What would've happened to Lebron's career if he never team-hopped for MULTIPLE pip's

No chips obviously

[AirBonner]

What would've happened to Lebron's career if he never team-hopped for MULTIPLE pip's

No chips obviously
Difference is LeBron turned many players into “Pippen” but MJ couldn’t win with prime Larry Hughes (better than Pippen)

[highwhey]

what would lebron average if his role was to score first, hide on defense second, and pass only when you can't shoot third. 40 ppg?

:roll: OP got ETHERED

[ImKobe]

what would lebron average if his role was to score first, hide on defense second, and pass only when you can't shoot third. 40 ppg?

Except Jordan was ahead of Pippen in Playoffs in DRAPM in the 2nd 3-Peat and also led the Bulls in assists in 3 out of 6 title runs. Nice try though. Maybe the Bulls wouldn't have needed MJ to be clutch if Pippen had been competent at putting the ball in the hoop..

[aj1987]

Except Jordan was ahead of Pippen in Playoffs in DRAPM in the 2nd 3-Peat and also led the Bulls in assists in 3 out of 6 title runs. Nice try though. Maybe the Bulls wouldn't have needed MJ to be clutch if Pippen had been competent at putting the ball in the hoop..

Nice to have Rodman, Harper, and Pip on the defensive end. Lets have this conversation when Ordan can carry a team with Irving and Love to a top 10 defense.

[ImKobe]

Nice to have Rodman, Harper, and Pip on the defensive end. Lets have this conversation when Ordan can carry a team with Irving and Love to a top 10 defense.

You left out TT and JR and Richard Jefferson, who all played a big role on the defensive side. Irving was out for a huge stretch that year as well so that probably helped their defensive numbers. Love's a decent defender, I wouldn't call him a net-negative, he's average and can be solid inside, he actually had the best DRTG on the team that year. Him and Irving made the 2 biggest defensive stops in Game 7 of that Finals by stopping Steph 1 on 1 at the end but we only talk about Lebron's block which was on an injured Iggy, who was already taking a contested shot against JR.

[John8204]

He would leave in free agency to join hakeem and magic

I think they bring in Barkley and Mullin...he would either win with them or join LA with Shaq and Kobe in the late 90's.

He wouldn't go 6-0

[3ba11]

.
.

BPG (Rim Protection)

20' AD'................. 2.5
04' Zydrunas....... 2.5
19' McGee........... 2.0
08' Wallace......... 1.7
10' Shaq.............. 1.5
15' Mosgov......... 1.2 (1.8 in playoffs)
13' Bosh.............. 1.4
14' Birdman......... 1.3
11' J Anthony...... 1.3

88' Jordan........... 1.6
92' H Grant.......... 1.6
93' H Grant.......... 1.2
88' Corzine.......... 1.2
89' Cartwright..... 0.5
96' Longley.......... 0.4


Lebron had elite rim protection and never led his team in blocks, while Jordan had zero rim protection and led his team in blocks in 88'.

In addition to having far superior rim protection, Lebron simply played with far more good defenders like Zydrunas, Hughes, Varejao, Mosgov, Birdman, Bosh, Wade, AD, McGee, Shumpert, Battier, Rondo, and many more.. Otoh, Jordan only played with Oakley, Pippen, Grant, Rodman and Harper..

So Lebron had a lot more defensive help and obviously more offensive help.. That's why Lebron had better defenses than the 1st three-peat Bulls in 07', 09', 10', 11', 12, and 20'.

[3ba11]

Nice to have Rodman, Harper, and Pip on the defensive end. Lets have this conversation when Ordan can carry a team with Irving and Love to a top 10 defense.


Lebron had better team defenses then the 1st three-peat Bulls in 07', 09', 10', 11', 12', 20'

Jordan played with 5 good defenders in his career (Oakley, Pippen, Grant, Rodman, Harper), while Lebron played with 15 good defenders (Hughes, Zydrunas, Varejao, Wallace, Mozgov, Battier, Wade, Birdman, Shumpert, Bosh, AD, Rondo, Bradley and more)

[Dray n Klay]

Jordan went 1-9 without Pippen, lost with an all star teammate in 1990 and 1995, and missed the playoffs in his 14th and 15th season

[3ba11]

.
ONLY MJ LED HIS TEAM IN PPG FOR EVERY SERIES (15.4 AVERAGE MARGIN OVER 2ND OPTION)


.........................PPG for #1 scorer.......... PPG for #2 scorer.......... Difference


1985 Round 1 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1985-nba-eastern-conference-first-round-bulls-vs-bucks.html):...... Jordan 29.3............... Woolrige 20.5.................. 8.8

1986 Round 1 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1986-nba-eastern-conference-first-round-bulls-vs-celtics.html):...... Jordan 43.7............... Woolrige 21.0................ 22.7

1987 Round 1 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1987-nba-eastern-conference-first-round-bulls-vs-celtics.html):...... Jordan 35.7............... C Oakley 20.0................ 15.7

1988 Round 1 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1988-nba-eastern-conference-first-round-cavaliers-vs-bulls.html):...... Jordan 45.2............... C Oakley 10.8................ 34.4
1988 Round 2 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1988-nba-eastern-conference-semifinals-bulls-vs-pistons.html):...... Jordan 27.4............... C Oakley 12.8................ 14.6

1989 Round 1 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1989-nba-eastern-conference-first-round-bulls-vs-cavaliers.html):...... Jordan 39.8............... S Pippen 15.0................ 25.0
1989 Round 2 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1989-nba-eastern-conference-semifinals-bulls-vs-knicks.html):...... Jordan 35.7............... S Pippen 14.8................ 20.9
1989 Round 3 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1989-nba-eastern-conference-finals-bulls-vs-pistons.html):...... Jordan 29.7............... C Hodges 12.0............... 17.7

1990 Round 1 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1990-nba-eastern-conference-first-round-bucks-vs-bulls.html):...... Jordan 36.8............... S Pippen 22.5................ 14.3
1990 Round 2 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1990-nba-eastern-conference-semifinals-76ers-vs-bulls.html):...... Jordan 43.0............... S Pippen 20.8................ 22.2
1990 Round 3 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1990-nba-eastern-conference-finals-bulls-vs-pistons.html):...... Jordan 32.1............... S Pippen 16.6................ 15.5

1991 Round 1 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1991-nba-eastern-conference-first-round-knicks-vs-bulls.html):...... Jordan 29.0............... S Pippen 19.7................ 9.3
1991 Round 2 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1991-nba-eastern-conference-semifinals-76ers-vs-bulls.html):...... Jordan 33.4............... S Pippen 23.4................ 10.0
1991 Round 3 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1991-nba-eastern-conference-finals-pistons-vs-bulls.html):...... Jordan 29.8............... S Pippen 22.0................ 7.8
1991 Round 4 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1991-nba-finals-lakers-vs-bulls.html):...... Jordan 31.2............... S Pippen 20.8................ 10.4

1992 Round 1 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1992-nba-eastern-conference-first-round-heat-vs-bulls.html):...... Jordan 45.0............... S Pippen 24.0.............. 21.0
1992 Round 2 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1992-nba-eastern-conference-semifinals-knicks-vs-bulls.html):...... Jordan 31.3............... S Pippen 16.0.............. 15.3
1992 Round 3 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1992-nba-eastern-conference-finals-cavaliers-vs-bulls.html):...... Jordan 31.7............... S Pippen 19.8.............. 11.9
1992 Round 4 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1992-nba-finals-trail-blazers-vs-bulls.html):...... Jordan 35.8............... S Pippen 20.8.............. 15.0

1993 Round 1 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1993-nba-eastern-conference-first-round-hawks-vs-bulls.html):...... Jordan 34.3............... S Pippen 15.3.............. 19.0
1993 Round 2 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1993-nba-eastern-conference-semifinals-cavaliers-vs-bulls.html):...... Jordan 31.0............... S Pippen 18.3.............. 12.7
1993 Round 3 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1993-nba-eastern-conference-finals-bulls-vs-knicks.html):...... Jordan 32.2............... S Pippen 22.5.............. 9.8
1993 Round 4 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1993-nba-finals-bulls-vs-suns.html):...... Jordan 31.0............... S Pippen 21.2.............. 19.8

1995 Round 1 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1995-nba-eastern-conference-first-round-bulls-vs-hornets.html):...... Jordan 32.3............... T Kukocs 17.3.............. 15.0
1995 Round 2 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1995-nba-eastern-conference-semifinals-bulls-vs-magic.html):...... Jordan 31.0............... S Pippen 19.0.............. 12.0

1996 Round 2 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1996-nba-eastern-conference-semifinals-knicks-vs-bulls.html):...... Jordan 36.0............... S Pippen 15.6.............. 20.4
1996 Round 3 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1996-nba-eastern-conference-finals-magic-vs-bulls.html):...... Jordan 29.5............... S Pippen 18.5.............. 11.0
1996 Round 4 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1996-nba-finals-supersonics-vs-bulls.html):...... Jordan 27.3............... S Pippen 15.7.............. 11.6

1997 Round 1 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1997-nba-eastern-conference-first-round-bullets-vs-bulls.html):...... Jordan 37.3............... S Pippen 16.7.............. 20.6
1997 Round 2 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1997-nba-eastern-conference-semifinals-hawks-vs-bulls.html):...... Jordan 26.6............... S Pippen 22.2.............. 4.4
1997 Round 3 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1997-nba-eastern-conference-finals-heat-vs-bulls.html):...... Jordan 30.2............... S Pippen 16.8.............. 17.4
1997 Round 4 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1997-nba-finals-jazz-vs-bulls.html):...... Jordan 32.3............... S Pippen 20.0.............. 12.3

1998 Round 1 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1998-nba-eastern-conference-first-round-nets-vs-bulls.html):...... Jordan 36.3............... S Pippen 18.0.............. 18.3
1998 Round 2 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1998-nba-eastern-conference-semifinals-hornets-vs-bulls.html):...... Jordan 29.6............... S Pippen 17.8.............. 11.8
1998 Round 3 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1998-nba-eastern-conference-finals-pacers-vs-bulls.html):...... Jordan 31.7............... S Pippen 16.6.............. 15.1
1998 Round 3 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1998-nba-finals-bulls-vs-jazz.html):...... Jordan 33.5............... S Pippen 15.7.............. 17.8
.................................................. ............................................______
.................................................. ........................15.4 average difference



Everyone in history needed equal-scoring partners to attract equal defensive attention for numerous playoff runs and Finals, so they didn't always face maximum defensive attention - any period without facing maximum defensive attention is inflated stats compared to Jordan, who always faced maximum defensive attention by carrying the scoring load in every SERIES, let alone playoff run.

[aj1987]

You left out TT and JR and Richard Jefferson, who all played a big role on the defensive side.
TT, JR, and RJ? LMAO! I knew you were a casual, but this is borderline autistic. During the title season in '16, JR and RJ were net negative defenders.


Irving was out for a huge stretch that year as well so that probably helped their defensive numbers.
Yes, it did and one of the reasons why the Cavs were 10th defensively in '16. Not to mention the fact that he had Shump and Delly. They lost them the next season and their defense tanked.


Love's a decent defender, I wouldn't call him a net-negative, he's average and can be solid inside, he actually had the best DRTG on the team that year. Him and Irving made the 2 biggest defensive stops in Game 7 of that Finals by stopping Steph 1 on 1 at the end but we only talk about Lebron's block which was on an injured Iggy, who was already taking a contested shot against JR.
Did you just call Love a decent defender? The dude is a net negative for his career and that can be proved by simple watching a game or two and there's literally tons of stats to back that up as well. Heck, he has a negative DBPM for his career. Love was 151st in the league is DRPM during the '16 season. He was never a good defender and it's not even close.

As for DRtg and LeBron's block, Iggy was injured? FOH. LeBron literally saved the Finals with his block. Oh, and of the players, who played meaningful minutes, LeBron had BY FAR the best DRtg on the team at 101. The next closest player was RJ at 107. Irving and Love were at 109 and 111. JR at 113.

With all that being said, the fact that you brought up Love, JR, RJ, and Irving when we're talking about defense, and the fact that I specifically was talking about Pippen and Rodman (two GOAT level defenders) and Harper, shows the lack of your basketball knowledge. Just stop posting.

[Full Court]

TT, JR, and RJ? LMAO! I knew you were a casual, but this is borderline autistic. During the title season in '16, JR and RJ were net negative defenders.


Yes, it did and one of the reasons why the Cavs were 10th defensively in '16. Not to mention the fact that he had Shump and Delly. They lost them the next season and their defense tanked.


Did you just call Love a decent defender? The dude is a net negative for his career and that can be proved by simple watching a game or two and there's literally tons of stats to back that up as well. Heck, he has a negative DBPM for his career. Love was 151st in the league is DRPM during the '16 season. He was never a good defender and it's not even close.

As for DRtg and LeBron's block, Iggy was injured? FOH. LeBron literally saved the Finals with his block. Oh, and of the players, who played meaningful minutes, LeBron had BY FAR the best DRtg on the team at 101. The next closest player was RJ at 107. Irving and Love were at 109 and 111. JR at 113.

With all that being said, the fact that you brought up Love, JR, RJ, and Irving when we're talking about defense, and the fact that I specifically was talking about Pippen and Rodman (two GOAT level defenders) and Harper, shows the lack of your basketball knowledge. Just stop posting.

The funny thing is that you spent how much time writing a wall of text...

and STILL Lebron has multiple epic choke jobs, has 2011, is 4/10, is -86, and is a chronic loser.

Hmmmmm, chronic loser....no wonder you idolize him.

:lebroncry:

[aj1987]

The funny thing is that you spent how much time writing a wall of text...

and STILL Lebron has multiple epic choke jobs, has 2011, is 4/10, is -86, and is a chronic loser.

Hmmmmm, chronic loser....no wonder you idolize him.

:lebroncry:

Looks like all those FACTS has popped one of your two remaining brain cells. Time to go jump off a cliff, retard. :cheers:

[Axe]

The funny thing is that you spent how much time writing a wall of text...

and STILL Lebron has multiple epic choke jobs, has 2011, is 4/10, is -86, and is a chronic loser.

Hmmmmm, chronic loser....no wonder you idolize him.

:lebroncry:
Guy is absolutely nuts. He makes it a habit to backtrack so he can reply on responses that have been made a week or more ago lmao.

[aj1987]

Guy is absolutely nuts. He makes it a habit to backtrack so he can reply on responses that have been made a week or more ago lmao.

Unlike you, I don't post here or lurk here 24/7. I login once or twice a week and go to my subscribed threads list. Not a hard concept to understand, shit for brains. :cheers:

[Axe]

Unlike you, I don't post here or lurk here 24/7. I login once or twice a week and go to my subscribed threads list. Not a hard concept to understand, shit for brains. :cheers:
Okay. If you say so, whiny maggot. :rolleyes:

[HylianNightmare]

what would lebron average if his role was to score first, hide on defense second, and pass only when you can't shoot third. 40 ppg?

Not with all his clunky ass moves

[aj1987]

Okay. If you say so, whiny maggot. :rolleyes:

Go jump off a cliff, you autistic loser. :cheers:

[Axe]

Go jump off a cliff, you autistic loser. :cheers:
Meltdown from angry apu :(

Backtracking threads and replies again :oldlol:

[aj1987]

Meltdown from angry apu :(

Backtracking threads and replies again :oldlol:

What the **** does that even mean, autistic loser?

[HunterSThompson]

what would lebron be if his role was to score first, hide on defense second, and pass only when he can't shoot third. 40 ppg?



https://img.bleacherreport.net/img/images/photos/003/779/440/hi-res-4e82acf8bd87b2b6523fb8c4d4a9781d_crop_north.jpg?15 44292817&w=3072&h=2048

2004 to 2015

[1987_Lakers]

https://img.bleacherreport.net/img/images/photos/003/779/440/hi-res-4e82acf8bd87b2b6523fb8c4d4a9781d_crop_north.jpg?15 44292817&w=3072&h=2048

2004 to 2015

That's a lazy comparison, Mark Jackson couldn't jump over a rock and he's like 7 inches shorter than Bron.