Westbrook has to be benched for the Lakers to be remotely competitive

[RRR3]

For those who think I’m exaggerating, take a look at the following information


2020 Lakers: 60 win pace for an 82 game season, championship

2021 Lakers: 55 win pace when LeBron played (this includes games AD missed). Obviously they lost in the first round but they were up before AD got hurt and had an excellent shot at repeating if they had been healthy

2022 Lakers: 40 win pace. Even with LeBron they’re only winning at a 42 win pace, so can’t really blame him being out that much. Granted AD has been out too and that has killed their defense. Now it’s quite possibly LeBron is just that much less impactful now, but the easier conclusion to draw is that the guy who’s barely shooting over 50% TS% and struggling to maintain an ORTG over 100, plays hideously bad defense and has dreadful RAPTOR ratings but somehow is given huge minutes and a huge role is the one turning an elite team into a mediocre one. Westbrook was a good player in his prime (although that was years ago at this point) but a combination of the league changing and his athleticism and skills diminishing has made him dogshit.

[Spurs m8]

What about 2019?

In the end, whilst Westbrook isn't great, this team is going nowhere without AD...like it never has.

2020 wasn't real, either

[TheGoatest]

Hopefully Nunn comes back soon. That will give Vogel the opportunity to bench him for 5-10 minutes extra per game.

[RRR3]

Hopefully Nunn comes back soon. That will give Vogel the opportunity to bench him for 5-10 minutes extra per game.
That isn’t enough. He shouldn’t play at all. Nunn is MASSIVELY better than him, he should get all his minutes. Nunn isn’t even great but he’s solid. At least he was last year.

[ArbitraryWater]

you realize AD is not there?

You're basically adding Russ to the 2019 team

[RRR3]

you realize AD is not there?

You're basically adding Russ to the 2019 team
They weren’t world beaters with AD either. Starting WB is like playing with a chain around your leg.

[paksat]

LeGM tho

Le200IQ tho

[Johnny32]

westbrook had 0 turnovers again!

[StrongLurk]

The Lakers are screwed regardless if Lebron or AD are injured. It really is that simple.

[expansionera]

That scuffle with Gordon is the most embarrassing thing I’ve seen in my life, Westbrook is officially washed

[Full Court]

The Lakers have systemic issues that go well beyond Westbrook sucking. Benching Westbrook won't make the Lakers competitive. They need to fix their atrocious defense and lack of team cohesion.

[3ba11]

Nope - Lebron just has to resort to a Reggie Miller/Rip Hamilton/MJ style OFF-BALL, which allows both Lebron and Westbrook to achieve their max production - with both guys getting their expected production, the Lakers'would be the dominant favorite that everyone expected.

Unfortunately.... is this thing on??? (tap tap)... The bum can't play off-ball!!!!!!!!!! That's the problem - Lebron can't play off-ball.... Bad fit = skill deficit

Heck, everyone did better with Westbrook than LeBallDominate, including KD, PG13 and Harden - they all won more with Westbrick

[PP34Deuce]

They don't even play bron ball.

Cohesion and roles is an issue.

[3ba11]

They don't even play bron ball.

Cohesion and roles is an issue.


Lebron is a frontcourt player that holds the ball a point guard amount

This trait is singular to Lebron (frontcourt ball-dominance)

So if people can't see that this is why Lebron's team is performing worse with Westbrook than anyone else did (Beal, Harden, PG13, and KD won more with Westbrook), then they don't understand the game at a sufficient level to properly assess what's going on

Lebron's frontcourt ball-dominance has ALWAYS been inherently suboptimal, which is why he couldn't develop organic chemistry to win and always needed super-team help (more help than anyone else needed).

[StrongLurk]

Westbrook leads the league in turnovers, is ranked bottom five in the entire league for volume jumpshooters, has a NEGATIVE BPM, and has the ball more than anyone on the Lakers...I think he can turn it around a little bit but yeah he is pretty washed. The eye test is horrible for him as well.

Really though Westbrook is just part of the issue...the other issue is AD/Lebron missing too many games due to injury, and the Lakers themselves being extremely old in a league that plays fast.

[PP34Deuce]

Time of ball possession and bron ball aren't the same.

Bron plays like a less athletic slightly less efficient miami bron.

[bladefd]

That isn’t enough. He shouldn’t play at all. Nunn is MASSIVELY better than him, he should get all his minutes. Nunn isn’t even great but he’s solid. At least he was last year.

The ego of Westbrook would never allow that. He would put on a tantrum.

Look at how difficult it was to get Melo relegated to the bench in Houston. Former stars in later years don't understand when they are not a star anymore

[HoopsNY]

Westbrook's turnovers are a problem, but I think they're being overblown here. When Westbrook has 3 of fewer turnovers, the Lakers are 7-9. In games that LeBron plays, they're 6-8.

He's an 18/8/8/1 on 42% player in games that he has 3 or fewer turnovers, which is around his season averages. So clearly, turnovers aren't the overarching problem here.

[WhiteKyrie]

What about 2019?

In the end, whilst Westbrook isn't great, this team is going nowhere without AD...like it never has.

2020 wasn't real, either
Well, he's right.

[Spurs m8]

It's been said, but imagine LeBarry could play off the ball.

They could actually sort of work

[Ne 1]

Nope - Lebron just has to resort to a Reggie Miller/Rip Hamilton/MJ style OFF-BALL, which allows both Lebron and Westbrook to achieve their max production - with both guys getting their expected production, the Lakers'would be the dominant favorite that everyone expected.

Unfortunately.... is this thing on??? (tap tap)... The bum can't play off-ball!!!!!!!!!! That's the problem - Lebron can't play off-ball.... Bad fit = skill deficit

Heck, everyone did better with Westbrook than LeBallDominate, including KD, PG13 and Harden - they all won more with Westbrick

LeBron has better chance of winning if he is playing in a system. Look at Miami. Spoelstra made sure Rio/Wade orchestrated the offense and Lebron showed he was capable of playing off the ball. Won back to back.

[Ne 1]

But even if L.A. finds their offense, the problem is their defense sucks so I don’t think they’re gonna make it regardless.

[Phoenix]

I don't think relegating him to a bench role helps much either, it seems like if you handed him a 10 point lead he's likely to lose it rather than increase it or at least maintain it. And Russ just strikes me as he thinks he's still 'that dude' from OKC days, he's going to Iverson himself out of the league the moment he's dragged kicking and screaming to the bench.

He can still get his stats, but they're effectively meaningless. And there's an increasing number of 2/15 nights, 8 turnover nights. There's nothing you can do with that coming from one of your 3 best players who also commands the ball that much. At least in his MVP season, there was a correlation between his triple doubles and the W/L column, but we're well past those days.

[HoopsNY]

I don't think relegating him to a bench role helps much either, it seems like if you handed him a 10 point lead he's likely to lose it rather than increase it or at least maintain it. And Russ just strikes me as he thinks he's still 'that dude' from OKC days, he's going to Iverson himself out of the league the moment he's dragged kicking and screaming to the bench.

He can still get his stats, but they're effectively meaningless. And there's an increasing number of 2/15 nights, 8 turnover nights. There's nothing you can do with that coming from one of your 3 best players who also commands the ball that much. At least in his MVP season, there was a correlation between his triple doubles and the W/L column, but we're well past those days.

These are factors that contribute to the downfall of the team, but aren't they being overblown? When he doesn't turn the ball over a whole lot, the team still maintains a similar record. The Lakers are 7-9 in games where he has 3 or fewer turnovers.

[Manny98]

He shouldn't be playing at all get rid of him even if it means you get back nothing

[Phoenix]

These are factors that contribute to the downfall of the team, but aren't they being overblown? When he doesn't turn the ball over a whole lot, the team still maintains a similar record. The Lakers are 7-9 in games where he has 3 or fewer turnovers.

It's hard to really assess them, big picture, because the big 3 haven't played much together. They'd have a better record no doubt if Lebron, AD and Russ had played more together. Westbrook is under a bigger spotlight than he otherwise would be because he was clearly brought in to be the third option. Without AD there as a buffer, it's just Lebron who is playing great individually, but even with that they're obviously very mediocre.

[Bankaii]

It's been said, but imagine LeBarry could play off the ball.

They could actually sort of work
Lebron has played off the ball this entire season. He’s playing center on offense to open up the floor for Russ.
Russ has been trash even when lebron isn’t on the court.
You cry about lebron literally every day. Log off.

[Spurs m8]

Lebron has played off the ball this entire season. He’s playing center on offense to open up the floor for Russ.
Russ has been trash even when lebron isn’t on the court.
You cry about lebron literally every day. Log off.

He doesn't play off the ball though.
Like, at all.

And he barely plays C, properly.

Watch the games, you fvcking moron

[RRR3]

He shouldn't be playing at all get rid of him even if it means you get back nothing
Yes exactly. This is what I meant some people are misunderstanding me.

[RRR3]

Duh-uhhhhh-uhhhhh
:facepalm

[FKAri]

KD sends his regards.

[Nike D'Antoni]

Played 28 minutes today. He was benched for almost the entire 4th quarter. From 3:46 left in the 3rd quarter to 3:24 left in the 4th quarter he was benched.
Lakers made their run in that period.

[RRR3]

Played 28 minutes today. He was benched for almost the entire 4th quarter. From 3:46 left in the 3rd quarter to 3:24 left in the 4th quarter he was benched.
Lakers made their run in that period.
I do know what I’m talking about, believe it or not.