If prime MJ, Kobe and Lebron are in a team together, who'd be the alpha?

[iamgine]

Or at least who'd be perceived as the alpha?

We know MJ was perceived as the alpha over Pippen

We know Kobe was perceived as the alpha over Gasol

We know Lebron was perceived as the alpha over Wade/Kyrie/AD

[bullettooth]

LeBron was not alpha over A.D.

:whatever:

[Johnny32]

lebron and it's not up for debate. he'd be running the show on offense as he's a much better decision maker than the other two. he'd also be barking out orders on defense as he has the loudest voice and by far the highest basketball iq.

[Full Court]

Kobe wasn't the alpha when he was on Shaq's team. So of the three, Kobe's the only one who's been a clear beta.

[bullettooth]

lebron and it's not up for debate. he'd be running the show on offense as he's a much better decision maker than the other two. he'd also be barking out orders on defense as he has the loudest voice and by far the highest basketball iq.

https://i.postimg.cc/k5XJ92Lg/jabroni-lames-defense.gif

https://i.postimg.cc/B66RXPQY/lebron-terrible-defence.gif

[AirBonner]

LeBron appears to be leading the poll

[GrayGoat]

I’ll take the one that would lead everyone in everything (LeBron)

[Full Court]

Kobe wasn't the alpha when he was on Shaq's team. So of the three, Kobe's the only one who's been a clear beta.

But we also know that the alpha certainly wouldn't be the one who tried to copy one of the other ones, using their jersey number, doing a sequel to their movie, etc.

I guess that leaves MJ.

[warriorfan]

MJ would be the top alpha dog and Kobe would be his right hand man. Lebron would be the Pippen who gets bullied by everyone.

[GrayGoat]

MJ would be the top alpha dog and Kobe would be his right hand man. Lebron would be the Pippen who gets bullied by everyone.

Kobe might shoot them out of the series trying to keep up with the big dogs

[Baller789]

I doubt it would work.
Too many huge egos.

[warriorfan]

Kobe might shoot them out of the series trying to keep up with the big dogs

No he would defer to MJ.

[Full Court]

It would be interesting to see how Jordan and Lebron would play together, but I suspect it wouldn't turn out well. They both have way too big of egos to be on the same team.

[Full Court]

I doubt it would work.
Too many huge egos.

Beat me to it.

[SouBeachTalents]

I honestly think LeBron/Jordan & LeBron/Kobe would work very well, but even without LeBron, Jordan/Kobe would be a potential disaster waiting to happen. WAY too redundant, both want to score 30+ and establish themselves as the leader. Kobe simply wouldn't accept being the 2nd option for long, he wasn't cut out for that.

[ShawkFactory]

It would be interesting to see how Jordan and Lebron would play together, but I suspect it wouldn't turn out well. They both have way too big of egos to be on the same team.

Nah, they’re both smart players and I think they figure out how to play to each other’s strengths together.

Jordan would let Bron run the offense but Bron would defer regularly. Both guys get what they need.

[Full Court]

Nah, they’re both smart players and I think they figure out how to play to each other’s strengths together.

Jordan would let Bron run the offense but Bron would defer regularly. Both guys get what they need.

If that actually happened, it would be an unbeatable team.

[GrayGoat]

No he would defer to MJ.

We saw how Kobe deferred to Shaq in 2004

[ShawkFactory]

If that actually happened, it would be an unbeatable team.

Yep. More so than Kobe and Jordan together for sure.

For all the flak Bron gets on here for being tough to play with and destroying teammates or whatever...he knows what he’s doing.

He could attack the basket, give off to Jordan who scores. If Jordan is doubled then Bron runs the rim; Jordan of course finds him. And Bron with the hands and ability to track the ball in traffic and finish? Over.

[Bawkish]

Yep. More so than Kobe and Jordan together for sure.

For all the flak Bron gets on here for being tough to play with and destroying teammates or whatever...he knows what he’s doing.

He could attack the basket, give off to Jordan who scores. If Jordan is doubled then Bron runs the rim; Jordan of course finds him. And Bron with the hands and ability to track the ball in traffic and finish? Over.

And Bron would also provide the scoring help, both are capable of shooting lights out

MJ was more off ball and Bron's ball dominant. No coach needed for them, just let them dictate everything

[3ba11]

.

2011 Playoffs

Wade....... 24.5 ppg... 26.3 PER... 8.4 bpm... 2.2 vorp.. 0.216 ws/48
Lebron..... 23.7 ppg... 23.7 PER... 7.1 bpm... 2.1 vorp.. 0.195 ws/48


Wade was clearly the alpha in 2011 that knew how to perform under pressure - he had to literally DECIDE to hand the reigns over to Lebron.

So obviously, Jordan would be alpha over Lebron even more - Wade couldn't win with Lebron playing like Pippen (18/6/5 and frightened in the clutch), while MJ went 6/6 with that.

Regarding Kobe - who do you think sounds like the alpha here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SOFTlUoHck)?

/thread

[TheGoatest]

At a gambling table? Jordan would definitely be willing to gamble away the highest amount of money.
On a basketball court in an organized 5 on 5 game? LeBron would definitely be the best player.

[LLL3]

Kobe wasn't the alpha when he was on Shaq's team. So of the three, Kobe's the only one who's been a clear beta.

Kyrie was the alpha over Lebron in 2016 as a 23 year old kid over a full-grown prime man. :roll:

[Spurs m8]

Honestly, whoever answered bron must be beta.

If you think THAT is alpha.

And against those 2

Lmfao

Or you're lying, like usual

Maybe he can get the refs to kick MJ and Kobe out?
Or does he just get women kicked out?

[TheCorporation]

Not the guy who is an Iverson scorer only.

The guy that can do everything.

[TheCorporation]

Kyrie was the alpha over Lebron in 2016 as a 23 year old kid over a full-grown prime man. :roll:

That makes sense you'd think that the guy who did literally less in every category was the alpha :lol

[expansionera]

Lil Mikey would look up to LeBron literally and figuratively as a mentor, he’d take the off ball responsibilities and be more than happy to let LeBron do all the playmaking and defending for him not unlike a certain someone Jordan’s fans like to forget.

Kobe, however, would be a major problem once he came to appreciate he’d be little more than a third wheel on this team. If you think WB is bad now wait till you see Kobe single handedly shoot the GOAT and GOAT shoe salesman out of games

[Airupthere]

MJ/Kobe would be working together and I see them agreeing on a lot of things. Lebron would be biting his nail at the back listening to how MJ/Kobe talk.

[HunterSThompson]

8 votes for lebron

0 votes for Kobe



and kobe/lebron were teammates in 2008 and the team captain was kobe and he was the one with the ball in his hands the entire 4th quarter of the gold medal game


https://youtu.be/fhpVE5Yfvhc


we have literal evidence of who is the alpha leader that "revolutionized USA basketball and taught players work ethic/leadership/attention to defense"


and insidehoops revisionists take a giant shit on reality


go figure

[ThRRR3tardSatan]

Only 3 users with a combined 8 votes using alts have voted Lebron?


https://c.tenor.com/xABKhXj6xbIAAAAC/abrahatschi-trump.gif

[Airupthere]

8 votes for lebron

0 votes for Kobe



and kobe/lebron were teammates in 2008 and the team captain was kobe and he was the one with the ball in his hands the entire 4th quarter of the gold medal game


https://youtu.be/fhpVE5Yfvhc


we have literal evidence of who is the alpha leader that "revolutionized USA basketball and taught players work ethic/leadership/attention to defense"


and insidehoops revisionists take a giant shit on reality


go figure

This. Good example of who would take the backseat if the 3 were teammates. MJ/Kobe being co-alpha and just playing together with mutual respect. Kobe was the difference maker in that team making sure that they brought home the gold.

[GrayGoat]

Kobe would shoot them out of games. LeBron might average 15 rebounds a game with the amount of Kobe misses

[Airupthere]

Kobe would shoot them out of games. LeBron might average 15 rebounds a game with the amount of Kobe misses

MJ averaged more offensive rebounds per game than Lebron.

[GrayGoat]

MJ averaged more offensive rebounds per game than Lebron.

MJ had rules tailored to his game

[Johnny32]

MJ had rules tailored to his game

guards also didn't get back on defense in the 80s and instead went for offensive rebounds. it's how teams played.

[Johnny32]

sidney moncrief, a 6'3 180 lb guard averages more offensive rebounds for his career than mj. so it's not like jordan was some great offensive rebounder.

[FKAri]

Look at all those stans voting for their guy lmao.

I think this is a trick question. Being the most alpha isn't necessarily a good thing. The answer is easily Lebron because the other two don't control a team to the extent he does. Lebron dominates not just the ball, but he dictates how the team should play, which players it should have, etc. He always becomes the defacto leader of a team.

[3ba11]

Look at all those stans voting for their guy lmao.

I think this is a trick question. Being the most alpha isn't necessarily a good thing. The answer is easily Lebron because the other two don't control a team to the extent he does. Lebron dominates not just the ball, but he dictates how the team should play, which players it should have, etc.


The guy that closes the possession (highest usage) is the alpha - that's Jordan

Ball-dominators don't control a possession - the bailout option that they pass to does - the catch-and-shoot or quick iso guy

Also, old Jordan shot 47% on 3.6 attempts in clutch time of the 97' and 98' Playoffs, compared to 40% on 3.0 attempts for Lebron and Kobe's playoff career

[FKAri]

The guy that closes the possession (highest usage) is the alpha - that's Jordan

Ball-dominators don't control a possession - the bailout option that they pass to does

Ball-dominators use teammates as bailout options, while off-guard assassin closers ARE the bailout option

Let's agree that the term, "alpha" is stupid. But if it means anything, it means the leader of the team. The closer is not necessarily the leader.

[3ba11]

Let's agree that the term, "alpha" is stupid. But if it means anything, it means the leader of the team. The closer is not necessarily the leader.


Neither is a dumb ball-dominator - there's no way the 11-ring knowledge of MJ & Kobe would let anyone dominate the ball and play losing basketball that always underwhelms and needs more help regardless of cast and basically never results in a juggernaut - Lebron is not going to turn MJ & Kobe into 4/10 guys

You just don't understand that frontcourt ball-dominance is inherently suboptimal and more importantly, you don't understand that ball-dominance is a role player function - a team can move the ball or dominate it - either way, it's something role players do.. aka Mike Conley runs a tight ship, so he could dominate the ball and pass to MJ/Kobe - a superstar like Lebron isn't needed for that, yet that's all Lebron has the skill to do alongside MJ and Kobe (get them the ball)

So the alpha guys are the guys that can carry the SCOREBOARD, and therefore can defeat maximum defensive attention - remember, Lebron needs equal-scoring partners to attract equal defensive attention on the Finals level, so he can't defeat max defensive attention like alpha Kobe, MJ, or even 06' Wade

[3ba11]

.
Thread Cliffs

Lebron would have a Mike Conley role or player function alongside Kobe/MJ - get them the ball and gtfo the way

[TheMan]

LeBron appears to be leading the poll

To be fair, most of those are just one poster and his alts...

[GrayGoat]

Thread cliffs: Kobe would still shoot over 5 defenders despite having the two GOAT play finishers

[TheMan]

But we also know that the alpha certainly wouldn't be the one who tried to copy one of the other ones, using their jersey number, doing a sequel to their movie, etc.

I guess that leaves MJ.

:lol

[Johnny32]

.
Thread Cliffs

Lebron would have a Mike Conley role or player function alongside Kobe/MJ - get them the ball and gtfo the way

in autistic fantasy land maybe. in reality lebron is a more efficient scorer than either of the chuck brothers.

[FKAri]

Neither is a dumb ball-dominator - there's no way the 11-ring knowledge of MJ & Kobe would let anyone dominate the ball and play losing basketball that always underwhelms and needs more help regardless of cast and basically never results in a juggernaut - Lebron is not going to turn MJ & Kobe into 4/10 guys

They won't be able to stop Lebron. Lebron will install his own coach, GM, etc. Lebron infiltrates a team completely. He won't be denied.

[3ba11]

in autistic fantasy land maybe. in reality lebron is a more efficient scorer than either of the chuck brothers.


Lebron's ball-dominant rim attacks yield weaker team offense than Jordan's elite jumpshooting skill, which yielded better ball movement, higher team assists, better teammate fits and many #1 offenses with less offensive help.

In addition to weaker team offense,, Lebron's ball-dominant rim attacks require greater defensive effort (ball-dominance lets defenses rest so they have more capacity to go off offensively, while ball movement wears down teams and reduces their offensive capacity).

So Lebron's high scoring is suboptimal, which is why he can't beat good teams with high scoring and needs equal-scoring partners on the Finals level or in the West (same thing)..

[Johnny32]

Lebron's ball-dominant rim attacks yield weaker team offense than Jordan's elite jumpshooting skill, which yielded better ball movement, higher team assists, better teammate fits and many #1 offenses with less offensive help.

In addition to weaker team offense,, Lebron's ball-dominant rim attacks require greater defensive effort (ball-dominance lets defenses rest so they have more capacity to go off offensively, while ball movement wears down teams and reduces their offensive capacity).

So Lebron's high scoring is suboptimal, which is why he can't beat good teams with high scoring and needs equal-scoring partners on the Finals level or in the West (same thing)..

wrong again. jordan's teams rarely cracked 110+ points as everyone stood around watching him chuck 25 times a gm.

[3ba11]

wrong again. jordan's teams rarely cracked 100+ points as everyone stood around watching him chuck 25 times a gm.


The Bulls had four #1 offenses in 91', 92', 96', and 97', including goat margins above league ortg

so Jordan had vastly superior team offense despite FAR less offensive help than lebron had

Accordingly, Jordan would be alpha because his brand of ball yielded better team offense, while his skillset was a star skillset (teammates sought to get him the ball), while Lebron's skillset is Mike Conley/role player (getting the star scorers the ball).

[Johnny32]

we saw the real impact pippen has when he missed about 40 games in 98. bulls offense went from 1st in ppg and 1st in efficiency in 97 to 9th and 9th in 98.

[3ba11]

we saw the real impact pippen has when he missed about 40 games in 98. bulls offense went from 1st in ppg and 1st in efficiency in 97 to 9th and 9th in 98.


Lebron never had a #1 offense in 2 decades despite FAR more offensive help than MJ had.. Whereas Jordan had 4 top offenses with less offensive help

[Johnny32]

and then the wizard years lol. 21st and 24th in ppg.

[Johnny32]

has mj ever had a good offensive team without pippen running the show? it appears the answer is no.

[3ba11]

and then the wizard years lol. 21st and 24th in ppg.


Similar to Lebron in 04', 05', and 19', Wizards Jordan was improving a 20 win team to nearly 40 wins

There's levels to this - no one carried a 20-win team to 50-60 wins except rookie Bird (rookie Robinson added Terry Cummings as well)

[Johnny32]

85 - 15th in ppg
86 - 13th in ppg
87 - 20th in ppg

answer is definitely a no.

[3ba11]

85 - 15th in ppg
86 - 13th in ppg
87 - 20th in ppg

answer is definitely a no.


Do Lebron's from his rookie year to before Mo arrived

Mo added 21 wins...

Ultimately, the East didn't require a good cast and Lebron is lottery out West without AD, so Lebron never carried teams

[Johnny32]

85 - 15th in ppg
86 - 13th in ppg
87 - 20th in ppg

answer is definitely a no.

88 - 19th in ppg
89 - 17th in ppg

lol horrible offenses. mj only succeeded once the pace and scoring around the lg plummeted. which obviously makes it easier for a 25 shots per gm ball hog to impact wins and losses more efficiently. mj in today's 120 ppg era is mj in the 80s. we already saw it.

[3ba11]

88 - 19th in ppg
89 - 17th in ppg

lol horrible offenses. mj only succeeded once the pace and scoring around the lg plummeted. which obviously makes it easier for a 25 shots per gm ball hog to impact wins and losses more efficiently. mj in today's 120 ppg era is mj in the 80s. we already saw it.


Jordan had better offenses than Lebron with less offensive help... :confusedshrug:

Lebron never had a #1 offense in 2 decades

2 decades of shit

[GrayGoat]

Thread cliffs: Kobe would still shoot over 5 defenders despite having the two GOAT play finishers

Anyone?

[Gudo]

I honestly think LeBron/Jordan & LeBron/Kobe would work very well, but even without LeBron, Jordan/Kobe would be a potential disaster waiting to happen. WAY too redundant, both want to score 30+ and establish themselves as the leader. Kobe simply wouldn't accept being the 2nd option for long, he wasn't cut out for that.

You didn't answer it though

[3ba11]

.
* Lebron wasn't alpha over a 6'4" Jordan in 2011 (Wade), so how could he be alpha over a 6'6" Jordan?

* Shouldn't the alpha be capable of defeating maximum defensive attention on the highest level?.. Lebron never did because he never carried the scoring load while winning a Finals, whereas MJ/Kobe did 8 times.. They had the elite jumpshooting skill and pure scoring ability to be the bailout option that teammates look for on every possession, while Lebron's ball-dominant, deferring style makes teammates the bailout option.

* NBA com's tracking stats show that KD, Kawhi or Harden take many contested jumpers, while Lebron avoids contested jumpers (defers them to lesser teammates) - this obviously reduces his capacity to be alpha or clutch compared to MJ.

* It's routine for a role player to bring the ball up or pass/move the ball on offense, or find the top scorer (pass them the ball), but only the best superstars can close a large number of possessions and are sought by teammates to close many possessions.. "Closing" is simply the top function.. MJ/Kobe had the elite jumpshooting skill and pure scoring ability to be the bailout option that teammates look for on every possession, while Lebron's ball-dominant, deferring style makes teammates the bailout option.

[Dagoods]

LeBron would be in favor of sharing the court alongside shooters:

Curry - PG
Jordan - SG
LeBron - SF
Dirk - PF
Hakeem - C

Here LeBron would be the PG of course. This line-up contains optimal floor spacing:

Hakeem could hit jumpers 10-15ft away from the basket;
MJ's midrange game is unmatched;
Curry will drain 3s all game;
and Dirk can stretch the floor.

HOWEVER, MJ would be in favor of a more defensive team.

Curry - PG
Jordan - SG
LeBron - SF
Garnett - PF
Hakeem - C

By adding Garnett into the mix, this team defensively, (minus Curry) would be unstoppable. Even scarier than the 96 Bulls defensively. Garnett can guard the perimeter and Hakeem was a beast as a defender. Jordan and LeBron on the wings. Let's not forget that Curry has led the NBA in steals before so he would have to play D or else he'll get punched in the face by MJ.

Even though Garnett's midrange game was decent (pick and pop), spacing or lack of thereof could potentially be a problem.

MJ's formula of success revolved playing top notch D. Whereas, LeBron's winning formula constitutes surrounding him with shooters.

Which lineup do you guys think they would end up with at the end?

[Johnny32]

LeBron would be in favor of sharing the court alongside shooters:

Curry - PG
Jordan - SG
LeBron - SF
Dirk - PF
Hakeem - C

Here LeBron would be the PG of course. This line-up contains optimal floor spacing:

Hakeem could hit jumpers 10-15ft away from the basket;
MJ's midrange game is unmatched;
Curry will drain 3s all game;
and Dirk can stretch the floor.

HOWEVER, MJ would be in favor of a more defensive team.

Curry - PG
Jordan - SG
LeBron - SF
Garnett - PF
Hakeem - C

By adding Garnett into the mix, this team defensively, (minus Curry) would be unstoppable. Even scarier than the 96 Bulls defensively. Garnett can guard the perimeter and Hakeem was a beast as a defender. Jordan and LeBron on the wings. Let's not forget that Curry has led the NBA in steals before so he would have to play D or else he'll get punched in the face by MJ.

Even though Garnett's midrange game was decent (pick and pop), spacing or lack of thereof could potentially be a problem.

MJ's formula of success revolved playing top notch D. Whereas, LeBron's winning formula constitutes surrounding him with shooters.

Which lineup do you guys think they would end up with at the end?

a lineup where dirk is replaced with kd.

[Dagoods]

a lineup where dirk is replaced with kd.

Stephen A. Smith went with this following lineup:

Curry - PG
Jordan - SG
LeBron - SF
Durant - PF
Shaq - C

Shaq has no midrange game and would only clog the lane. KD has played the majority of his career at the 3 spot, he's considered a SF by most. However, he has played as a PF since returning from injury. Personally, I think playing him at the 4 suits him better, the same goes for BIRD (who originally played as a PF).

CURRY - PG
JORDAN - SG
LEBRON - SF
DURANT - PF
HAKEEM - C

DURANT: 27.1 ppg | 7.1 rbg | 1.1 bpg
DIRK: 20.7 ppg | 7.5 rbg | 0.8 bpg

DURANT is a better defensive player and more mobile. This season alone Durant is averaging 7.4 rebounds a game not bad for someone who is so lanky.

[SouBeachTalents]

If I were to build a lineup around Jordan/LeBron I'd prob go

Curry
Jordan
LeBron
Bird
Hakeem

[3ba11]

The only position that Lebron can play without underachieving the talent level is point guard

otherwise his ball-dominance is ridiculously abnormal for the position, which creates 2 point guard lineups that give teammates less hold-time and assists than they get in 1 point guard lineups.. Lower teammate assists results in low TEAM assists and a brand that struggles on the championship level.

so you could put lebron at point guard, but that's the only spot i'd consider him at.. And I'd still rather go with a Kobe/MJ backcourt because of their seamless interchangeability in on-ball and off-ball roles - completely unpredictable to defend - plus their defensive intensity and clutch would also make the team unbeatable..

And their jumpshooting would yield better ball movement, teammate fits and offensive strategy than Lebron's ball-dominant driving.

[GrayGoat]

Kobe underachieved with a 35/15 Shaq. I think Kobe would find a way to ruin the trio

[3ba11]

Kobe underachieved with a 35/15 Shaq. I think Kobe would find a way to ruin the trio


When did Kobe lose with a 35/15 Shaq

[GrayGoat]

When did Kobe lose with a 35/15 Shaq

Shaq was a 35/15 player till Kobe tried to bite off more than he can chew and reducing shaq

[3ba11]

Shaq was a 35/15 player till Kobe tried to bite off more than he can chew and reducing shaq


once kobe hit his prime in 2000, he never lost with shaq until shaq got old and didn't want to hand the team over.

if the lakers had started focusing the team and chemistry around kobe in 2001, the Lakers would've run off many rings in a row - that's because even 2006 shaq was better than the pau that kobe repeated with in 09' and 10'

look how kobe played in the 01' WCF against the Spurs (the REAL finals) - that's as good as you'll see someone play

[GrayGoat]

once kobe hit his prime in 2000, he never lost with shaq until shaq got old and didn't want to hand the team over.

if the lakers had started focusing the team and chemistry around kobe in 2001, the Lakers would've run off many rings in a row - that's because even 2006 shaq was better than the pau that kobe repeated with in 09' and 10'

look how kobe played in the 01' WCF against the Spurs (the REAL finals) - that's as good as you'll see someone play
Shaq was “old” yet Wade won with an even older Shaq. Just shows most perimeter star players can win with a prime Shaq

[bison]

https://i.postimg.cc/B66RXPQY/lebron-terrible-defence.gif

You would NEVER see Kukoc push and disrespect Jordan like this. And you would NEVER see Derek Fisher push and disrespect Kobe like this. Youc an argue who is the most alpha but it sure as hell isn't lebron.

[3ba11]

Shaq was “old” yet Wade won with an even older Shaq. Just shows most perimeter star players can win with a prime Shaq


Shaq bought in and let Wade be the focal point and THE GUY - that's the whole point

he never did that with Kobe, who was likely superior to Wade or at least as good

[BigKobeFan]

Shaq bought in and let Wade be the focal point and THE GUY - that's the whole point

he never did that with Kobe, who was likely superior to Wade or at least as good

Bran was crying next to wade in 2011 and 2012.

He copied all of wade's actions and let wade answer all the questions during post game interviews after making fun of dirk

[Axe]

Shaq bought in and let Wade be the focal point and THE GUY - that's the whole point

he never did that with Kobe, who was likely superior to Wade or at least as good
If alpha shaq relegated himself next to kobe, then the latter would have ended up with more missed shots resulting to disastrous results and lesser chips in their times as dynamic duo.

[kawhileonard2]

Kobe underachieved with a 35/15 Shaq. I think Kobe would find a way to ruin the trio

Lebron only made round 2 with Shaq.

[3ba11]

Lebron only made round 2 with Shaq.


In a horrible East with home court advantage, while the Celtics were an old, post-Garnett injury team that only won 50 games and weren't good - they were massive underdogs (+500) and Rondo was the best player in the series that demolished Lebron down the stretch - the only reason the Cavs were upset is because Lebron averaged 21 on 34% for the last 3 games.

[1987_Lakers]

I can only imagine how dysfunctional a team with Jordan/Kobe would be. Both are way too similar in play styles for it to work. Imagine them taking turns going 1 on 1, tuning out the rest of their teammates. That's what made Pippen a perfect teammate for MJ, he could take over playmaking duties as well as anchor the defense while MJ does his thing.

[iamgine]

So far 48% for MJ, 38% for Lebron, 14% for Kobe

[3ba11]

So far 48% for MJ, 38% for Lebron, 14% for Kobe


Why didn't you include Wade in the poll?... Is that because we already know the answer is 100% for Wade since he was alpha in the 2011 Playoffs and Finals?.. In 2010, Lebron asked the league: "aside from me, who has the #2 PER in the league?"... And he teamed up with that guy - Wade was #2 in PER, BPM, VORP, and WS/48, and this includes doubling Kobe's BPM and 8 more points in PER.

Furthermore, a player needs to be willing to take and make contested jumpshots to be alpha and exude maximum confidence, rather than defer the tough shots/possessions to lesser teammates.. A willingness to take these shots confidently rubs off on teammates so they confidently make the shots when passed to like Paxson or Kerr, rather than Donyell Marshall or Korver it.

But the stats tell the story - the player that would dictate style of play the most is the player that had the best team offenses - that's MJ - he had four #1 offenses with goat margins above league ortg, so the system must have MJ as #1 option.

He would be the off-ball assist target/closer/bailout option that teammates can use whenever they need throughout a possession - and anyone can pass another player the ball, so any role player can get MJ the ball - it doesn't need a ball-dominator turning him into spot-up shooter.. The MJ offense doesn't have a PG role for anyone - it's a ball movement, high team assist offense similar to the Warriors' offense, or the triangle, or a low-ball-dominance Spurs offense (all the teams with the best Finals records/team ceilings that beat Lebron's teams)

[iamgine]

Why didn't you include Wade in the poll?... Is that because we already know the answer is 100% for Wade since he was alpha in the 2011 Playoffs and Finals?.. In 2010, Lebron asked the league: "aside from me, who has the #2 PER in the league?"... And he teamed up with that guy - Wade was #2 in PER, BPM, VORP, and WS/48, and this includes doubling Kobe's BPM and 8 more points in PER.

Furthermore, a player needs to be willing to take and make contested jumpshots to be alpha and exude maximum confidence, rather than defer the tough shots/possessions to lesser teammates.. A willingness to take these shots confidently rubs off on teammates so they confidently make the shots when passed to like Paxson or Kerr, rather than Donyell Marshall or Korver it.

But the stats tell the story - the player that would dictate style of play the most is the player that had the best team offenses - that's MJ - he had four #1 offenses with goat margins above league ortg, so the system must have MJ as #1 option.

He would be the off-ball assist target/closer/bailout option that teammates can use whenever they need throughout a possession - and anyone can pass another player the ball, so any role player can get MJ the ball - it doesn't need a ball-dominator turning him into spot-up shooter.. The MJ offense doesn't have a PG role for anyone - it's a ball movement, high team assist offense similar to the Warriors' offense, or the triangle, or a low-ball-dominance Spurs offense (all the teams with the best Finals records/team ceilings that beat Lebron's teams)

If I include everyone the poll will be too long. Someone want Wade, then other want Bird, then other want Durant, Iverson etc

[Jasper]

Or at least who'd be perceived as the alpha?

We know MJ was perceived as the alpha over Pippen

We know Kobe was perceived as the alpha over Gasol

We know Lebron was perceived as the alpha over Wade/Kyrie/AD

not even a question MJ all day every day(.)

[FKAri]

It appears that 3ball is in a conundrum. Either admit that Lebron completely commandeers the teams he is on or admit that MJ isn't an alpha. :oldlol:

[FromDowntown]

It appears that 3ball is in a conundrum. Either admit that Lebron completely commandeers the teams he is on or admit that MJ isn't an alpha. :oldlol:

:roll::oldlol: good call

which is it

[Hey Yo]

Why didn't you include Wade in the poll?... Is that because we already know the answer is 100% for Wade since he was alpha in the 2011 Playoffs and Finals?.. In 2010, Lebron asked the league: "aside from me, who has the #2 PER in the league?"... And he teamed up with that guy - Wade was #2 in PER, BPM, VORP, and WS/48, and this includes doubling Kobe's BPM and 8 more points in PER.

Furthermore, a player needs to be willing to take and make contested jumpshots to be alpha and exude maximum confidence, rather than defer the tough shots/possessions to lesser teammates.. A willingness to take these shots confidently rubs off on teammates so they confidently make the shots when passed to like Paxson or Kerr, rather than Donyell Marshall or Korver it.

But the stats tell the story - the player that would dictate style of play the most is the player that had the best team offenses - that's MJ - he had four #1 offenses with goat margins above league ortg, so the system must have MJ as #1 option.

He would be the off-ball assist target/closer/bailout option that teammates can use whenever they need throughout a possession - and anyone can pass another player the ball, so any role player can get MJ the ball - it doesn't need a ball-dominator turning him into spot-up shooter.. The MJ offense doesn't have a PG role for anyone - it's a ball movement, high team assist offense similar to the Warriors' offense, or the triangle, or a low-ball-dominance Spurs offense (all the teams with the best Finals records/team ceilings that beat Lebron's teams)
In the horrible East, right?

[John8204]

I think Lebron would likely have to run the offense if the three of them were on the same team. Kobe would likely work the perimeter and MJ would be the first option but often double covered.

[La Frescobaldi]

https://i.postimg.cc/B66RXPQY/lebron-terrible-defence.gif

“Now lil bronnie I know you already have your jammies on under your jersey but
GO GET THE BALL”

[AirFederer]

https://i.postimg.cc/k5XJ92Lg/jabroni-lames-defense.gif

https://i.postimg.cc/B66RXPQY/lebron-terrible-defence.gif
Never gets old

[3ba11]

It appears that 3ball is in a conundrum. Either admit that Lebron completely commandeers the teams he is on or admit that MJ isn't an alpha. :oldlol:


Lebron's game and career in layman's terms

Iverson, Kidd, Dwight and 07' Lebron won the East with 1-star teams, so a good team wasn't needed to win the East most years, while Lebron was lottery out West without AD.. People forget that the 18' Cavs had the best sidekick the conference, while previous runs with super-teams provided an experience edge that was unmatched - they had a 2-star team of veteran champions against young, 0-star opponents... The East was simply weak while Lebron could only win out West as "pippen" - AD led the Lakers in scoring for regular season and playoffs, while elevating the Lakers' defense from worst to first.

The stats confirm that Lebron cannot carry teams - Lebron never carried bed-wetting sidekicks over top 5 SRS teams (no carry-jobs against good teams in 2 decades) and he can't beat maximum defensive attention on the highest level (never carried scoring load while winning a Finals).

Lebron's inability to carry teams stems from his lack of elite jumpshooting skill (no off-ball/pure scoring or running off screens), which makes his high scoring levels too ball dominant and predictable to beat good teams (09'), or too inefficient at the extra jumpshooting volume (15').

Ultimately, he never evolved out of ball-dominant offenses that revolve around him, so he never learned to elevate teammates beyond spot-up roles.. Since he can't elevate teammates, he never learned how to win (organic chemistry) and therefore needed to team-hop (talent-based winning).. Talent-based winning loses to organic ball movement, so Lebron has a lottery record against the Spurs, Mavs, and Warriors.

[FKAri]

Lebron's game and career in layman's terms

Iverson, Kidd, Dwight and 07' Lebron won the East with 1-star teams, so a good team wasn't needed to win the East most years, while Lebron was lottery out West without AD.. People forget that the 18' Cavs had the best sidekick the conference, while previous runs with super-teams provided an experience edge that was unmatched - they had a 2-star team of veteran champions against young, 0-star opponents... The East was simply weak while Lebron could only win out West as "pippen" - AD led the Lakers in scoring for regular season and playoffs, while elevating the Lakers' defense from worst to first.

The stats confirm that Lebron cannot carry teams - Lebron never carried bed-wetting sidekicks over top 5 SRS teams (no carry-jobs against good teams in 2 decades) and he can't beat maximum defensive attention on the highest level (never carried scoring load while winning a Finals).

Lebron's inability to carry teams stems from his lack of elite jumpshooting skill (no off-ball/pure scoring or running off screens), which makes his high scoring levels too ball dominant and predictable to beat good teams (09'), or too inefficient at the extra jumpshooting volume (15').

Ultimately, he never evolved out of ball-dominant offenses that revolve around him, so he never learned to elevate teammates beyond spot-up roles.. Since he can't elevate teammates, he never learned how to win (organic chemistry) and therefore needed to team-hop (talent-based winning).. Talent-based winning loses to organic ball movement, so Lebron has a lottery record against the Spurs, Mavs, and Warriors.

Lebron takes over an organization like a cancer or a parasite. But because he ends up controlling his host he is more like a conqueror. There is no way anyone could play along side him without being consumed by him. You've said as much in the past. Therefore him being the Alpha of the team he is on is an established axiom of basketball discussion.

[FKAri]

3ball?

[Baller789]

Lebron takes over an organization like a cancer or a parasite. But because he ends up controlling his host he is more like a conqueror. There is no way anyone could play along side him without being consumed by him. You've said as much in the past. Therefore him being the Alpha of the team he is on is an established axiom of basketball discussion.

So you are you also saying he is the Alpha of the Bronze Winning Team USAs?

[Axe]

I can only imagine how dysfunctional a team with Jordan/Kobe would be. Both are way too similar in play styles for it to work. Imagine them taking turns going 1 on 1, tuning out the rest of their teammates. That's what made Pippen a perfect teammate for MJ, he could take over playmaking duties as well as anchor the defense while MJ does his thing.
But baldone, at least, had adjusted and adapted himself to the triangle for the sake of perennial team success during the 90s dynasty. With the zenmaster as the mastermind, he didn't become too appalled or hesitant when the time came for that, although i'm not sure if it has something to do with him being the primary option of his team that he was able to live with it. Mamba, otoh, never became fond of the triangle nor in playing sidekick to alpha shaq. So ofc he was only forced to stick with the system tho but there are times that he doesn't abide to it. Thus, he was more selfish and more ballhog than the guy he idolized. In one of phil's books, he even called him a 'callous gunslinger' too but his stans would never acknowledge it.

[Micku]

I can only imagine how dysfunctional a team with Jordan/Kobe would be. Both are way too similar in play styles for it to work. Imagine them taking turns going 1 on 1, tuning out the rest of their teammates. That's what made Pippen a perfect teammate for MJ, he could take over playmaking duties as well as anchor the defense while MJ does his thing.

Eh...It's not really as bad as like that. MJ did play within the offense and let the game come to him. He didn't really stop the ball and go 1 on 1 like some stars did in 00s with the iso ball era unless he really have to.

But Kobe tho. That was kind'a bad. Phil Jackson brought MJ to try to tell Kobe how important it was to play within the team offense in 99 or 00, but Kobe was like I could beat you one on one.

Kobe/MJ did play really similar, but MJ had the two or three dribbles or less rule with him. So, he'll attack really quickly or gave it up. Probably due to the double team that'll go very fast. But he mostly played off the ball. It's not like how James Harden plays or whatever.

One thing for sure tho. If MJ or Kobe bring the ball up after a miss, they would try to shoot. That'll be either ugly or unstoppable. Due to MJ and Kobe being so deadly one on one tho, it could be dangerous for the other team.

Kobe and MJ had different skills that could make it work if they were willing.

Problem is that there are so many egos. But they would have a lot respect for each other. Kobe, MJ and LeBron got great work ethic. Kobe was a gym rat tho. LeBron keeping his body in shape. MJ for his crazy competitiveness.

They could definitely try to push each other and make each other better. All three of them might become more efficient, take care of their body better, and become more intense on the defensive end.

But who is alpha? Like the leader? Pttf. I dunno. Maybe MJ cuz of how intense he is and his insane competitive fire. LeBron might not care like that, but he is definitely gonn'a be barking orders on offense because I see him playing the point. Kobe will be right up there with MJ tho in the competitive fire. But they are going to yell at each other. Might get into a fight in practice. MJ and Kobe would try to punk each other and then would respect each other after that. Either a fight or a one on one. But who knows.

I do think all of them would challenge one on ones. Whoever wins, will be the alpha.

[RogueBorg]

No way in hell is Lebron the alpha over Kobe let alone Jordan.

[Phoenix]

The issue with Kobe and MJ is more their respective egos than any redundancy in skillset. There's obviously some play tendency crossover, but MJ was proficient enough off-ball with Kobe more initiating the offense but with an offensive greenlight as well. I just don't think mentally they co-exist.

[noonereal]

Why on earth is this forum overrun with posts of MJ, James and Kobe?

WTF is wrong with you people? Seriously?


Good grief.

[FKAri]

So you are you also saying he is the Alpha of the Bronze Winning Team USAs?

Nah he was a beta back then. He didn't surpass the other 2 in alpha-ness until 2015. So I guess it depends which version you want.

If all 3 are young. I got Kobe(forced his way onto LA and took over the team-something the others couldn't do at the same age).
If all 3 are in the tail end of their primes or older I got Lebron(maximum alpha - complete control of the team - no one else has achieved this level).
In between those ages, it's MJ(he had Reisendorf and GarPax doing all his bidding earlier than Bron did at the same age and more than Kobe ever could).

This is an unbiased, scientific take on the matter.

[3ba11]

Lebron takes over an organization like a cancer or a parasite. But because he ends up controlling his host he is more like a conqueror. There is no way anyone could play along side him without being consumed by him. You've said as much in the past. Therefore him being the Alpha of the team he is on is an established axiom of basketball discussion.


Wade was alpha over Lebron in 2011

Kyrie was the closer alongside Lebron

AD make Lebron the "pippen" (lower producer)

Lebron-ball is a shit offense compared to Jordan-ball (goat team offense)


So what were you saying about Jordan again?.. there's a REASON that the poll is over 50% for Jordan (mostly millennials voting).. Lebron would be a role player tasked with getting MJ the ball - another "jordanaire"

[Airupthere]

Lol at people thinking bronballing is being alpha. Alpha is all about your resolve, leadership, mental makeup. Lebron would always be the worst of the 3, regardless of the age.

[FKAri]

Alpha is all about your resolve, leadership, mental makeup.

Alpha is about leadership and exertion of control. Not mental resolve or anything like that. Brush up on your sociology.

[3ba11]

Alpha is about leadership and exertion of control. Not mental resolve or anything like that. Brush up on your sociology.


Lebron's ball-dominant style makes his teammates the bailout option/closer, whereas Jordan was the closer that teammates looked for on every possession - no one closed more possessions than Jordan each game, while also having more team assists than Lebron's team

So Lebron main task would be finding MJ and being his "stockton".. And they would have to run the offense that Jordan wants because he had #1 offenses with little offensive help, while Lebron never did despite goat offensive help.

[FKAri]

Lebron's ball-dominant style makes his teammates the bailout option/closer, whereas Jordan was the closer that teammates looked for on every possession - no one closed more possessions than Jordan each game, while also having more team assists than Lebron's team

So Lebron main task would be finding MJ and being his "stockton".. And they would have to run the offense that Jordan wants because he had #1 offenses with little offensive help, while Lebron never did despite goat offensive help.

Thread is about being alpha. Stay on topic.

[3ba11]

Thread is about being alpha. Stay on topic.


So why did you include Lebron in the thread title

A guy that LITERALLY melts down over mommy and whines until he's gifted super-teams and Year 1 league favorite

[Spurs m8]

I'll tell you what's fvcking alpha?

Grabbing the ref by the arm and getting him to kick females out of the arena, for hurting your feelings...

And doing it multiple times.

ALPHA

[3ba11]

I'll tell you what's fvcking alpha?

Grabbing the ref by the arm and getting him to kick females out of the arena, for hurting your feelings...

And doing it multiple times.

ALPHA


lol

alphas keep their cool and never let a female rattle them

that's why pippen has lost his mind lately.. Lebron is closer to a "pippen" and this is common knowledge

[FKAri]

So why did you include Lebron in the thread title

A guy that LITERALLY melts down over mommy and whines until he's gifted super-teams and Year 1 league favorite

You're confused. It's not whining when you're the decision maker. Whining would be leaving desperate messages on Reinsdorf's answering machine while he's out vacationing in Montauk. or threatening to fire Krause but not having the cachet or testicular fortitude to see his threats through. A dog with a bark but no bite. Lebron actually fired Magic and became the de facto GM of the team. He usurped the throne. That's what alphas do.

Oh and I didn't make the thread.

[3ba11]

You're confused. It's not whining when you're the decision maker. Whining would be leaving desperate messages on Reinsdorf's answering machine while he's out vacationing in Montauk. or threatening to fire Krause but not having the cachet or testicular fortitude to see his threats through. A dog with a bark but no bite. Lebron actually fired Magic and became the de facto GM of the team. He usurped the throne. That's what alphas do.

Oh and I didn't make the thread.


Alphas don't get rattled by females or taking chances, and they don't fear failure (they don't fear)

Otoh, betas get rattled and need sure-things

Hence the "decision" to hand-pick all the best players in the league to guarantee Finals runs after failing to win East with homecourt in 09' and 10'

It's literally THE MOST BETA MOVE EVER

[FKAri]

Alphas don't get rattled by females or taking chances, and they don't fear failure (they don't fear)

Otoh, betas get rattled and need sure-things

Hence the "decision" to hand-pick all the best players in the league to guarantee Finals runs after failing to win East with homecourt in 09' and 10'

It's literally THE MOST BETA MOVE EVER

Uh..That's EXACTLY what alphas do. Please refer to this post:

Alpha is about leadership and exertion of control. Not mental resolve or anything like that. Brush up on your sociology.
You have some reading to do.

[ClipperRevival]

You think MJ would follow this guy's lead?

https://ratchetfridaymedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/Website-Upload-2021-11-25T091545.019-678x381.jpg

https://media1.tenor.com/images/1a6b48687a22ef14f40e7ab012e5a224/tenor.gif?itemid=1373914

[ClipperRevival]

LeSnitch would follow this guy's lead.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/0adc9ce761d71fde56e50097e200f172/tenor.gif?itemid=21439210

https://c.tenor.com/vyFOwE7Y5qgAAAAM/the-last-dance-michael-jordan.gif