Healthy Kyrie would've won 18' East without star cast like Dwight, AI, Lebron, Kidd,

[3ba11]

Butler or Kawhi - the East was won by 1-star teams the majority of years outside of the super-team years (11-17').

Unfortunately, the return of Gordon Hayward in 2019 cratered Tatum/Brown across the board (PER, BPM, VORP, WS/48), effectively ruining what Kyrie had going.. Fortunately, Tatum/Brown were able to recover in 2020 and become stars.


CONCLUSION #1: Kyrie is that top caliber similar to all the guys that won the East with 1-star teams this century,

CONCLUSION #2: healthy Kyrie was the historic difference-maker between the 15' Cavs (losers) and 16' Cavs (winners) - this historical precedent confirms that a healthy Kyrie would've been the difference-maker in 18' and 21', while granting the top team ceilings to any team he's on (the 21' Nets were demolishing the great Giannis before Kyrie got hurt).

[Gohan]

No he wouldnt kyrie is not close to the players that you mentioned. Kyrie is overrated he is best as a second option

[RRR3]

Snivelball

[StrongLurk]

OP coming up on what, like half a million to a million posts over the last decade that center around MJ and Bron? I'd bet that number is close considering that OP use to post on multiple forums over the last twelve years minimum.

[ShawkFactory]

Butler, or Kawhi - the East was won by 1-star teams the majority of years outside of the super-team years (11-17').

Unfortunately, the return of Gordon Hayward in 2019 cratered Tatum/Brown across the board (PER, BPM, VORP, WS/48), effectively ruining what Kyrie had going.. Fortunately, Tatum/Brown were able to recover in 2020 and become stars.


CONCLUSION #1: Kyrie is that top caliber similar to all the guys that won the East with 1-star teams this century..

CONCLUSION #2: healthy Kyrie was the historic difference-maker between the 15' Cavs (losers) and 16' Cavs (winners) - this historical precedent confirms that a healthy Kyrie would've been the difference-maker in 18' and 21' too.

No it doesn't

[3ba11]

OP coming up on what, like half a million to a million posts over the last decade that center around MJ and Bron? I'd bet that number is close considering that OP use to post on multiple forums over the last twelve years minimum.


This thread is about Kyrie and how the 18' Celtics confirmed how weak the conference was (Kyrie would've won it if healthy)

This thread is also about how the media/fans use their own bias to judge how a healthy Kyrie would've done in 18' and 21', instead of using the HISTORICAL PRECEDENT that Kyrie set in his legendary 2016 run - that run confirmed (against the best comp) that Kyrie is a goat difference-maker, since the 15' Cavs lost to a worse opponent without him

[StrongLurk]

This thread is about Kyrie and how the 18' Celtics confirmed how weak the conference was (Kyrie would've won it if healthy)

This thread is also about how the media/fans use their own bias to judge how a healthy Kyrie would've done in 18' and 21', instead of using the HISTORICAL PRECEDENT that Kyrie set in his legendary 2016 run.

Nah it's about Lebron and we all know it. Just like Pippen threads are really about MJ.

[3ba11]

Nah it's about Lebron and we all know it. Just like Pippen threads are really about MJ.


No Pippen is historically overrated and it amounts to sports fraud

That's why I post about him...

I see myself as a hoops fraud buster... so Lebron and Pippen are the top targets for that in hoops history

But again, this thread is about how underappreciated Kyrie is... don't you think?

[ShawkFactory]

This thread is about Kyrie and how the 18' Celtics confirmed how weak the conference was (Kyrie would've won it if healthy)

This thread is also about how the media/fans use their own bias to judge how a healthy Kyrie would've done in 18' and 21', instead of using the HISTORICAL PRECEDENT that Kyrie set in his legendary 2016 run - that run confirmed (against the best comp) that Kyrie is a goat difference-maker, since the 15' Cavs lost to a worse opponent without him

Difference-maker perhaps. But historical record also shows that he averaged 20 on 35% as the lead guy in 2019 against a championship caliber team.

Couldn't carry a team. Needs to have a Lebron to do all of the other work on the court that he can't provide.

[SouBeachTalents]

The only year from 2017-2020 the Celtics didn't make the ECF was with Kyrie in 2019, getting destroyed in the 2nd round instead.

Kyrie's numbers over the last 4 games of that series: 19/4/5 on 41%TS and 4 TO's. Absolutely disgusting.

[3ba11]

The only year from 2017-2020 the Celtics didn't make the ECF was with Kyrie in 2019, getting destroyed in the 2nd round instead.

Kyrie's numbers over the last 4 games of that series: 19/4/5 on 41%TS with 4 TO's. Absolutely disgusting.


Gordon Hayward ruined the chemistry on the 2019 team (Tatum/Brown cratered across the board), so they weren't the juggernauts that they were with Kyrie the prior year

And Lebron averaged 21 on 34% to lose the last 3 games of the 10' ECSF as a massive favorite... Or 17 ppg in the 11' Finals... Or 22 on 35% against the 07' Spurs.. or 26 on 35% against the 08' Celtics.. or 22 ppg against Paul George in 2014 ECF .. And on... And on...

So I guess Kyrie is okay and his dominance of the only unanimous MVP in league history will stand the test of time.. Hakeem over 95' Robinson is the only other time someone destroyed an MVP at thelr position, so Lebron had 95' Hakeem-like help from his sidekick

[SouBeachTalents]

Gordon Hayward ruined the chemistry on the 2019 team (Tatum/Brown cratered across the board), so they weren't the juggernauts that they were with Kyrie the prior year

And Lebron averaged 21 on 34% to lose the last 3 games of the 10' ECSF as a massive favorite... Or 17 ppg in the 11' Finals... Or 22 on 35% against the 07' Spurs.. or 26 on 35% against the 08' Celtics.. or 22 ppg against Paul George in 2014 ECF .. And on... And on...

So I guess Kyrie is okay and his dominance of the only unanimous MVP in league history will stand the test of time.. Hakeem over 95' Robinson is the only other time someone destroyed an MVP at thelr position, so Lebron had 95' Hakeem-like help from his sidekick
So LeBron led a '95 Hakeem level player. the only unanimous MVP in league history, and THREE other all-star players in every single category? That's some GOAT level shit.

[FireDavidKahn]

More hypotheticals that never happened nor would have happened.

[ShawkFactory]

Both Kyrie and Pippen have played a series against a real contender in the second round as the man of their team

Kyrie: 20/6/4 on 36%; 11.6 gamescore; 102.9 pace

Pippen: 22/8/5 on 41%; 15.6 gamescore; 84.6 pace

[FireDavidKahn]

Both Kyrie and Pippen have played a series against a real contender in the second round as the man of their team

Kyrie: 20/6/4 on 36%; 11.6 gamescore; 102.9 pace

Pippen: 22/8/5 on 41%; 15.6 gamescore; 84.6 pace

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/001/470/tumblr_lndumwiCey1qdh05go1_400.jpg

[RRR3]

Both Kyrie and Pippen have played a series against a real contender in the second round as the man of their team

Kyrie: 20/6/4 on 36%; 11.6 gamescore; 102.9 pace

Pippen: 22/8/5 on 41%; 15.6 gamescore; 84.6 pace
Rat poison.

[Manny98]

Both Kyrie and Pippen have played a series against a real contender in the second round as the man of their team

Kyrie: 20/6/4 on 36%; 11.6 gamescore; 102.9 pace

Pippen: 22/8/5 on 41%; 15.6 gamescore; 84.6 pace

Everyone knows Kyrie threw that series on purpose because he was done with the Celtics

How about 27/4/4 off elite efficiency whilst outplaying a unanimous MVP in the finals and hitting the biggest shot in NBA history

Pippen or Lillard could never...

[FireDavidKahn]

Everyone knows Kyrie threw that series on purpose because he was done with the Celtics

How about 27/4/4 off elite efficiency whilst outplaying a unanimous MVP in the finals and hitting the biggest shot in NBA history

Pippen or Lillard could never...

Kyrie was only able to do that as the second banana. He can't be the best player on a championship team. Not even the best player on the Nets

[Manny98]

Kyrie was only able to do that as the second banana. He can't be the best player on a championship team. Not even the best player on the Nets
He can be the best player on a championship team see 2018 Celtics they would have literally won the title if he didn't get hurt :oldlol:

[FireDavidKahn]

He can be the best player on a championship team see 2018 Celtics they would have literally won the title if he didn't get hurt :oldlol:

But that never happened.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Both Kyrie and Pippen have played a series against a real contender in the second round as the man of their team

Kyrie: 20/6/4 on 36%; 11.6 gamescore; 102.9 pace

Pippen: 22/8/5 on 41%; 15.6 gamescore; 84.6 pace

3ball after reading this


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_0LTvnDEeI&ab_channel=PewDew

[ShawkFactory]

Everyone knows Kyrie threw that series on purpose because he was done with the Celtics

How about 27/4/4 off elite efficiency whilst outplaying a unanimous MVP in the finals and hitting the biggest shot in NBA history

Pippen or Lillard could never...

In this day? Playing with Lebron? Lillard certainly could.

I don't think you realize how freeing it is for a guy like Kyrie or Lillard to literally not have to do anything but get buckets. No weight in any capacity outside of that.

[3ba11]

Both Kyrie and Pippen have played a series against a real contender in the second round as the man of their team

Kyrie: 20/6/4 on 36%; 11.6 gamescore; 102.9 pace

Pippen: 22/8/5 on 41%; 15.6 gamescore; 84.6 pace


^^^ That isn't apples to apples - Kyrie's team had been destroyed by Gordon Hayward/Ainge/Stevens in 2019 and was no longer the juggernaut they were in 2018, while Pippen was gifted a 3-peat team with 3-peat chemistry and know-how.. Yet he destroyed this dynasty to lottery in less than 18 months before MJ returned in 95'.

Good 1st options are supposed to improve a team each year, but Pippen destroyed a 3-peat dynasty to lottery in less than 18 months... Otoh, rookie Kyrie improved the Cavs each year so Lebron viewed them as attractive enough to return in 2015 - he knew that Kyrie was that killer he needed to close and be equal-scoring partner.

[RRR3]

Everyone knows Kyrie threw that series on purpose because he was done with the Celtics

How about 27/4/4 off elite efficiency whilst outplaying a unanimous MVP in the finals and hitting the biggest shot in NBA history

Pippen or Lillard could never...
Amazing you think this makes Kyrie look good.

[3ba11]

Amazing you think this makes Kyrie look good.


Gordon ruined his sidekicks - it's like Krause bringing in Danny Ainge and playing him ahead of 89' Pippen and Grant ..... :hammerhead:... of course Jordan would be mad if Krause did that just like Kyrie was mad

[FireDavidKahn]

Its everyone's fault but Kyrie's

:(:cry:

[3ba11]

Its everyone's fault but Kyrie's

:(:cry:


It's a statistical fact that Tatum/Brown cratered in 2019 when Hayward returned and gobbled up their touches at the insistence of Ainge and Stevens - this ruined what Kyrie had going - imagine Kyrie growing this whole time with Tatum/Brown - they would be a juggernaut, but Hayward's big contract (and the inclination to play him) ruined everything... The stats again tell the story - Kyrie/Tatum/Brown destroy Hayward

[FireDavidKahn]

It's a statistical fact that Tatum/Brown cratered in 2019 when Hayward returned and gobbled up their touches at the insistence of Ainge and Stevens - this ruined what Kyrie had going - imagine Kyrie growing this whole time with Tatum/Brown - they would be a juggernaut, but Hayward's big contract (and the inclination to play him) ruined everything... The stats again tell the story - Kyrie/Tatum/Brown destroy Hayward

It's a statistical fact Kyrie has not nor ever will lead a team to a championship as the best player.

You just like to bloviate diarrhea all over the place.

[ShawkFactory]

^^^ That isn't apples to apples - Kyrie's team had been destroyed by Gordon Hayward/Ainge/Stevens in 2019 and was no longer the juggernaut they were in 2018, while Pippen was gifted a 3-peat team with 3-peat chemistry and know-how.. Yet he destroyed this dynasty to lottery in less than 18 months before MJ returned in 95'.

Good 1st options are supposed to improve a team each year, but Pippen destroyed a 3-peat dynasty to lottery in less than 18 months... Otoh, rookie Kyrie improved the Cavs each year so Lebron viewed them as attractive enough to return in 2015 - he knew that Kyrie was that killer he needed to close and be equal-scoring partner.

You CERTAINLY don’t live by that mantra.

But anyway...we’re talking about Gordon fvcking Hayward destroying Kyries ability to be functional in a series?

Oof

[FKAri]

^^^ That isn't apples to apples - Kyrie's team had been destroyed by Gordon Hayward/Ainge/Stevens in 2019 and was no longer the juggernaut they were in 2018, while Pippen was gifted a 3-peat team with 3-peat chemistry and know-how.. Yet he destroyed this dynasty to lottery in less than 18 months before MJ returned in 95'.

Good 1st options are supposed to improve a team each year, but Pippen destroyed a 3-peat dynasty to lottery in less than 18 months... Otoh, rookie Kyrie improved the Cavs each year so Lebron viewed them as attractive enough to return in 2015 - he knew that Kyrie was that killer he needed to close and be equal-scoring partner.

Both Kyrie and Pippen have played a series against a real contender in the second round as the man of their team

Kyrie: 20/6/4 on 36%; 11.6 gamescore; 102.9 pace

Pippen: 22/8/5 on 41%; 15.6 gamescore; 84.6 pace

[ShawkFactory]

Both Kyrie and Pippen have played a series against a real contender in the second round as the man of their team

Kyrie: 20/6/4 on 36%; 11.6 gamescore; 102.9 pace

Pippen: 22/8/5 on 41%; 15.6 gamescore; 84.6 pace

Got em

[Axe]

Op who's a better player? Pippen or hayward? You seem to be despising the latter too.

[Manny98]

In this day? Playing with Lebron? Lillard certainly could.

I don't think you realize how freeing it is for a guy like Kyrie or Lillard to literally not have to do anything but get buckets. No weight in any capacity outside of that.
Lillard could outplay Curry on the biggest stage?

If it's so "freeing" why can't anyone else do what Kyrie did

:roll:

[ShawkFactory]

Lillard could outplay Curry on the biggest stage?

If it's so "freeing" why can't anyone else do what Kyrie did

:roll:

If he didn’t have to do anything but score? And Curry were to choke again? Sure.

[Wally450]

It's a statistical fact that Tatum/Brown cratered in 2019 when Hayward returned and gobbled up their touches at the insistence of Ainge and Stevens - this ruined what Kyrie had going - imagine Kyrie growing this whole time with Tatum/Brown - they would be a juggernaut, but Hayward's big contract (and the inclination to play him) ruined everything... The stats again tell the story - Kyrie/Tatum/Brown destroy Hayward

Kyrie didn't have anything going. You said you haven't watched ball since 2012, so you clearly don't know what you're talking about. Kyrie ruined that team with his shot jacking and freezing out teammates. If he "had something going" he wouldn't have shot the Celtics out of the playoffs in 5 games against the Bucks.

Why did the Celtics go to the ECF 3 out of 4 years but the one time they didn't was the time Kyrie was playing?