why kobe is the greatest player ever regardless of accomplishments

[HunterSThompson]

think to yourself for a minute. how many dynamic 2 way do it all with both hands, scoring, can play point, score, post up, lock guys up, drop 60, hit a shot from anywhere with the drive and mentality to be great type players are there that ever existed with every skill on both ends of the floor..

there's only one

kobe


jordan is probly the closest thing but his range was around 20 feet. not mid court like kobe

durant is there offensively bit defensively he isn't

Bird had the skills but not the body

wade had Jordan's problems

tmac and vince didn't have the post game, the left hand or the drive and mentality

lebron had half of these things till a certain point then lost a ton of them.and gained others. we already know what they are and went over it a ton.


now the only guy with even close to kobes frame that has anywhere near the accomplishments is jordan ( who obviously has more)

a non big.. like it's just him and MJ with that body/style that has a combination of at least 1 title/1 fmvp/1 league mvp


which tells you just how.hard it is to be great and not be a big man

#1 jordan ( 6 titles, 6 fmvps, 5 mvps )
#5-7 Kobe (5 titles, 2 fmvps, 1 mvp )
#11 to 15 west? ( 1 title, 1 fmvp, 0 mvps )
#15 to 20 Baylor? (0 titles, 0 fmvps, 0 mvps )
#15 to 20 curry? ( 3 titles, 0 fmvps, 2 mvps )
#20 to 25 wade? ( 3 titles, 1 fmvp, 0 mvps )
#20 to 25 zeke ( 2 titles, 1 fmvp, 0 mvps )


like... the only other truly successful complete careers
other than kobe and mike are guys 6'9 to 7 feet+


so even to just have 1 of all the major accomplishments as a non big and not have every skill on both ends is already 2 out of every guy that ever existed


then factoring in kobe does have everything and also accomplished what the most dominant bigs did in his frame.hes at the very least co GOAT

you dont need 4 or 5 mvps when you are of such a small sample size regulated to one that ever existed. and throwing 5 titles on top with 2 finals mvps and a league mvp (that probly shoulda been more) is just over kill


jordan and kobe really shouldn't even exist. this game wasn't made for them. it was made for giants. guys like magic/bird/lebron who people put in the same class as kobe and mike and compare them routinely really shouldn't. those were big men. those were guys that could play power forward and center in some eras. and none of them were ever truly completely polished anyway

kobe is the guy we all choose in nba 2k22 online team up for a reason. he's cheese. it's not even fair. he's the most fun to play with by far because be does literally everything at the highest level at a speed and quickness rhats unmatched. he is the goat eye test player period. there's a reason when we look at lebron playing and we cringe. he's just not fun to watch. too awkward. he ain't "it"... he's dominant. but he isn't that prototypical guy we all wanna be


that's kobe. or at the very least mike

[highwhey]

Kobe in my 45-50 top players of all time.

[HunterSThompson]

today people laugh at the idea of kawhi being named league mvp and he might be the closest thing to kobe and Jordan that ever existed in terms of relative skill and size

think about that for a minute. that's how extremely rare it is to be a dynamic average sized wing and be the best in the world

[SATAN]

think to yourself for a minute. How many dynamic 2 way do it all with both hands, scoring, can play point, score, post up, lock guys up, drop 60, hit a shot from anywhere with the drive and mentality to be great type players are there that ever existed with every skill on both ends of the floor..

There's only one

kobe


jordan is probly the closest thing but his range was around 20 feet. Not mid court like kobe

durant is there offensively bit defensively he isn't

bird had the skills but not the body

wade had jordan's problems

tmac and vince didn't have the post game, the left hand or the drive and mentality

lebron had half of these things till a certain point then lost a ton of them.and gained others. We already know what they are and went over it a ton.


Now the only guy with even close to kobes frame that has anywhere near the accomplishments is jordan ( who obviously has more)

a non big.. Like it's just him and mj with that body/style that has a combination of at least 1 title/1 fmvp/1 league mvp


which tells you just how.hard it is to be great and not be a big man

#1 jordan ( 6 titles, 6 fmvps, 5 mvps )
#5-7 kobe (5 titles, 2 fmvps, 1 mvp )
#11 to 15 west? ( 1 title, 1 fmvp, 0 mvps )
#15 to 20 baylor? (0 titles, 0 fmvps, 0 mvps )
#15 to 20 curry? ( 3 titles, 0 fmvps, 2 mvps )
#20 to 25 wade? ( 3 titles, 1 fmvp, 0 mvps )
#20 to 25 zeke ( 2 titles, 1 fmvp, 0 mvps )


like... The only other truly successful complete careers
other than kobe and mike are guys 6'9 to 7 feet+


so even to just have 1 of all the major accomplishments as a non big and not have every skill on both ends is already 2 out of every guy that ever existed


then factoring in kobe does have everything and also accomplished what the most dominant bigs did in his frame.hes at the very least co goat

you dont need 4 or 5 mvps when you are of such a small sample size regulated to one that ever existed. And throwing 5 titles on top with 2 finals mvps and a league mvp (that probly shoulda been more) is just over kill


jordan and kobe really shouldn't even exist. This game wasn't made for them. It was made for giants. Guys like magic/bird/lebron who people put in the same class as kobe and mike and compare them routinely really shouldn't. Those were big men. Those were guys that could play power forward and center in some eras. And none of them were ever truly completely polished anyway

kobe is the guy we all choose in nba 2k22 online team up for a reason. He's cheese. It's not even fair. He's the most fun to play with by far because be does literally everything at the highest level at a speed and quickness rhats unmatched. He is the goat eye test player period. There's a reason when we look at lebron playing and we cringe. He's just not fun to watch. Too awkward. He ain't "it"... He's dominant. But he isn't that prototypical guy we all wanna be


that's kobe. Or at the very least mike

hahahahahahahahahaha

[HunterSThompson]

hahahahahahahahahaha

care to elaborate?

yes we all know there's guys on kobe and Jordan's level. theyre all big men and mostly flawed. why is it anyone average sized has never had a complete resume and skill set other than them

[HunterSThompson]

like really who is the closest thing to kobe and Jordan


tmac? lol

Vince?


kawhi?


wade?


Drexler?


its laughable

[iamgine]

that's nice

[wagexslave]

Kobe is the greatest beef of all time

[HunterSThompson]

that's nice

thanks


another thing.. if Iverson accomplished even half of what kobe or Mike did he would be in the goat conversation right?


because we have to give extra credit for a guys size in a game built for bigs

kobe and MJ are mid sized so their careers should be worth double compared to a magic/bird/lebron and triple compared to a wilt/kareem/shaq


this is just common sense

[iamgine]

you're welcome

[ShawkFactory]

I don't care.

But Tmac didn't have a weak left.

[SouBeachTalents]

Even if you want to narrow it down to non bigs, the gulf between Jordan & Kobe in terms of production, advanced metrics, accomplishments etc. is so substantial you have literally no argument to claim they're even close to being equal, let alone Kobe being the superior player.

[HunterSThompson]

I don't care.

But Tmac didn't have a weak left.

weak brain. weak eye spacing, weak back, weak pride, weak drive, weak post game, weak longevity, weak.accomplishments

take your pick. and he might be the closest thing to mj and kobe tbh


a guy that never did shit. its crazy

[HunterSThompson]

Even if you want to narrow it down to non bigs, the gulf between Jordan & Kobe in terms of production, advanced metrics, accomplishments etc. is so substantial you have literally no argument to claim they're even close to being equal, let alone Kobe being the superior player.

Jordan's advanced metrics were due to his limited range and shot selection. he rarely tried to do anything like kobe. like he probly.has a 20 minute video of hitting 30 footers over guys and half of them are buzzer beaters and Jordan's never even taken a shot like that


you might say "he was playing smart" and he did. he knew.his limitations

kobe had none. he could take any shot over anyone from anywhere and still have a good efficiency

[ShawkFactory]

weak brain. weak eye spacing, weak back, weak pride, weak drive, weak post game, weak longevity, weak.accomplishments

take your pick. and he might be the closest thing to mj and kobe tbh


a guy that never did shit. its crazy

His post game wasn’t weak either.

He wasn’t a natural leader/killer though, I’ll give you that.

[SouBeachTalents]

Jordan's advanced metrics were due to his limited range and shot selection. he rarely tried to do anything like kobe. like he probly.has a 20 minute video of hitting 30 footers over guys and half of them are buzzer beaters and Jordan's never even taken a shot like that


you might say "he was playing smart" and he did. he knew.his limitations

kobe had none. he could take any shot over anyone from anywhere and still have a good efficiency
Or maybe, Jordan didn't need to chuck up difficult shots because he was able to get higher percentage looks with more consistency and greater ease than Kobe could. Kobe took a ton of difficult shots, but that's a detriment compared to someone with a similar physical stature who could score significantly more on much better efficiency.

Forget even the advanced metrics, Jordan produced at a substantially greater level than Kobe ever did. Jordan averaged 41 ppg for an entire Finals series, Kobe didn't score 41 points in a single Finals game. We're talking different levels of basketball here, Jordan was unquestionably on a higher tier than Kobe.

[HunterSThompson]

Or maybe, Jordan didn't need to chuck up difficult shots because he was able to get higher percentage looks with more consistency and greater ease than Kobe could. Kobe took a ton of difficult shots, but that's a detriment compared to someone with a similar physical stature who could score significantly more on much better efficiency.

Forget even the advanced metrics, Jordan produced at a substantially greater level than Kobe ever did. Jordan averaged 41 ppg in an entire Finals series, Kobe didn't score 41 points in a single Finals game. We're talking different tiers of basketball here.

if a guy CAN do it and win... he will. people always test their limitations

jordan knew he couldn't step outside very often unless he was extremely wide open. his form was more of a pippen/harper push shot motion from three. just a set shot for him from deep was awkward. he wouldn't even have gotten the ball to the front of the rim if he was fading from 30 feet out of bounds or some.shit lol


don't act like.jordan just chose to not play like kobe lmao

only Durant/bird/dirk/tmac even had that kind of shot in their arsenal and you know it


curry has it but he has to be wide open to make them.


jordan had that kind of.shot till around 18 to 20 feet out. not 30 to 35 feet out.

we saw him in the 3 point contest. he wasn't Kobe
stop it

[ShawkFactory]

Jordan's advanced metrics were due to his limited range and shot selection. he rarely tried to do anything like kobe. like he probly.has a 20 minute video of hitting 30 footers over guys and half of them are buzzer beaters and Jordan's never even taken a shot like that


you might say "he was playing smart" and he did. he knew.his limitations

kobe had none. he could take any shot over anyone from anywhere and still have a good efficiency

Why would he?

[HunterSThompson]

Why would he?

to suck the air out of opposing arenas and teams and kill their pride/momentum

I've said this many times kobes on record in interviews saying he took insane shots for momentum purposes. basketball is a game of runs. teams trade mini scoring runs of 8 to 10 points a lot of the time and teams usually call time out for it. Phil rarely called timeout. he had a momentum maker/breaker on the floor in kobe

[ShawkFactory]

to suck the air out of opposing arenas and teams and kill their pride/momentum

I've said this many times kobes on record in interviews saying he took insane shots for momentum purposes. basketball is a game of runs. teams trade mini scoring runs of 8 to 10 points a lot of the time and teams usually call time out for it. Phil rarely called timeout. he had a momentum maker/breaker on the floor in kobe

That wasn't a thing in the 80s and 90s.

Jordan not pulling up for a double-teamed 30 footer isn't "I know my limitations". Its "that would be a really stupid thing to do".

In 1988 the Celtics led the NBA with 8.6 attempts per game. People weren’t jacking terrible shots for momentum purposes. They were getting the best shot and scoring.

[HunterSThompson]

That wasn't a thing in the 80s and 90s.

Jordan not pulling up for a double-teamed 30 footer isn't "I know my limitations". Its "that would be a really stupid thing to do".

In 1988 the Celtics led the NBA with 8.6 attempts per game. People we're jacking terrible shots for momentum purposes. They were getting the best shot and scoring.

jordan didn't need those momentum swinging shots like kobe because

1. at the time a highly contested 18 foot fade away was already never before seen shit or at most done by Larry Bird before him so it was kind of shocking and killed or gave momentum without needing the extreme. that shot became sorta common by the time kobe was prime. so he had to expand on it

and 2. the bulls had an all world defensive team to stop the momentum of other teams. they didn't need to play defense with their offense cause they had one of the best defenses ever

[ShawkFactory]

jordan didn't need those momentum swinging shots like kobe because

1. at the time a highly contested 18 foot fade away was already never before seen shit or at most done by Larry Bird before him so it was kind of shocking and killed or gave momentum without needing the extreme. that shot became sorta common by the time kobe was prime. so he had to expand on it

and 2. the bulls had an all world defensive team to stop the momentum of other teams. they didn't need to play defense with their offense cause they had one of the best defenses ever

Kobe didn’t take those kind of shots early on either. The deep threes opened up more once the rule change was implemented.

You can’t compare a complete difference in basketball mindset as a whole and use it against someone.

[Akeem34TheDream]

Imagine arguing Kobe with this dude. Even he knows Jordan is better. He just likes arguing.

[HunterSThompson]

Kobe didn’t take those kind of shots early on either. The deep threes opened up more once the rule change was implemented.

You can’t compare a complete difference in basketball mindset as a whole and use it against someone.

kobe was that guy from 2002-03 to 2012-13

[HunterSThompson]

Imagine arguing Kobe with this dude. Even he knows Jordan is better. He just likes arguing.

Jordan's the goat. more skilled than Kobe? no.. you act like I'm alone in this


https://youtu.be/jc49qu_p0Ec


https://youtu.be/LtvRatRkevw


https://youtu.be/z9r3GcylZnI

[ShawkFactory]

kobe was that guy from 2002-03 to 2012-13

Regardless, I don’t think it’s appropriate to ever mention someone who directly expanded on another’s work and call them better. That applies to music as well.

Kobe wouldn’t be where he was without Jordan to study and learn from. Expanding on it in certain ways doesn’t make him better.

[HunterSThompson]

Regardless, I don’t think it’s appropriate to ever mention someone who directly expanded on another’s work and call them better. That applies to music as well.

Kobe wouldn’t be where he was without Jordan to study and learn from. Expanding on it in certain ways doesn’t make him better.

jordan literally stole every move he ever had from Baylor, Dr J, wilt, west etc...

there's nothing original about MJ.. he has no original dunk or shot or move. period

he copied Larry Nance too lmao. Jordan is a complete facsimile lmao

[1987_Lakers]

Kobe wasn't even the best player on his team, let alone greatest ever. I can't remember the last time I've seen someone put him in a top 10 list.

[RogueBorg]

jordan literally stole every move he ever had from Baylor, Dr J, wilt, west etc...

there's nothing original about MJ.. he has no original dunk or shot or move. period

he copied Larry Nance too lmao. Jordan is a complete facsimile lmao

This is where I jump in. I saw Dr. J and Larry Nance Sr play, Jordan looked nothing like those guys and stole nothing from them. Neither of those guys had the post game of MJ.

Kobe stole every move from MJ and was less efficient at doing so.

[Rysio]

Kobes game was the hardest thats what makes him the greatest to me in an ideal league where everyone is a true pro where there is no easy lay ups and dunks or even easy jumpshots kobe would easily be the best.

[sdot_thadon]

Shoulda just named this thread :


why kobe is MY greatest player ever regardless of accomplishments

Cause nobody agrees with you.

[ShawkFactory]

jordan literally stole every move he ever had from Baylor, Dr J, wilt, west etc...

there's nothing original about MJ.. he has no original dunk or shot or move. period

he copied Larry Nance too lmao. Jordan is a complete facsimile lmao

Aaannnd this is where I decide to move on from this conversation.

[HunterSThompson]

This is where I jump in. I saw Dr. J and Larry Nance Sr play, Jordan looked nothing like those guys and stole nothing from them. Neither of those guys had the post game of MJ.

Kobe stole every move from MJ and was less efficient at doing so.


https://youtu.be/I8e2of1R0zs


https://youtu.be/OYrjX5pihgI


https://youtu.be/8O9MgNfcGJA

[HunterSThompson]

https://youtu.be/ZhdGihdnSKQ


https://youtu.be/Xd-UFrmWXWc


https://youtu.be/rjNS_oYE92E

[HunterSThompson]

Aaannnd this is where I decide to move on from this conversation.

other than the switch from right to left no look layup what did MJ ever do that he didn't take from someone else and improve on like kobe improving on Mike. you're quitting because you lost


and that right to left layup in the finals was a self admitted fluke cause he thought he wouldn't get to the rim. and he never did it ever again

[HunterSThompson]

oy thing michael jordan ever invented that he could do more than once

https://i.ibb.co/xM7x3m7/Screenshot-20220127-114314-Google.jpg

:roll:

[HunterSThompson]

my bad he also invented this

https://i.ibb.co/phKw1qT/Screenshot-20220127-114511-Google.jpg

:roll:

[ShawkFactory]

other than the switch from right to left no look layup what did MJ ever do that he didn't take from someone else and improve on like kobe improving on Mike. you're quitting because you lost


and that right to left layup in the finals was a self admitted fluke cause he thought he wouldn't get to the rim. and he never did it ever again

No, I'm leaving because you have a weird view on things and going into that rabbit hole is pointless and a waste of time.

No one ever said Mike was the greatest because he invented moves. The only issue for you in this argument is that Mike was better than those people you say he "copied". Kobe was not.

People wouldn't care to mention the tongue, sweat band, or the "switch from right to left no look layup" if he wasn't just a flat out better basketball player than Thompson, J, etc.

[HunterSThompson]

jesus how could I forget this original move trademarked by MJ

https://i.ibb.co/PTFXmkH/jordan-shrug.gif


:roll:

[HunterSThompson]

wait... didn't jordan also invent chewing bubble gum

https://i.ibb.co/56p3VZn/HMJf.gif


:roll:

[HunterSThompson]

I heard he also invented slightly longer baggy shorts

https://i.ibb.co/HTLK6wd/Screenshot-20220127-115051-Google.jpg

:roll:

[HunterSThompson]

remember all the upset MJ fans that went crazy after kobe stole Jordan's iconic original invented move of jumping in the air and going like this

https://i.ibb.co/zFSQnGv/celebrating-michael-jordan.gif

:roll:

[HunterSThompson]

I heard jordan also invented holding his hand up in the air after a shot

https://i.ibb.co/jrWwWMw/Screenshot-20220127-115545-Google.jpg

:roll:

[HunterSThompson]

there's scientific evidence that Jordan invented the correct way to wear an elbow sleeve

https://i.ibb.co/wpPcVYV/maxresdefault-3.jpg


:roll:

[HunterSThompson]

my bad guys. ok here it is. the actual original never before seen move jordan invented..


the Larry nance cradle dunk with gold chains

larry didn't wear gold chains

https://i.ibb.co/g9Xdv7R/7a354d08ed1d774a4b8dede786a73b15.gif

:roll:

[SouBeachTalents]

This is a weird subject to have a meltdown over.

[MadDog]

Kobe was arguably more skilled. The same way Bird and maybe Chris Paul are. Too bad the NBA isn't a figure skater contest. :confusedshrug:

[HunterSThompson]

ok surely jordan must have invented spreading his legs

https://i.ibb.co/HzNmvBY/jumpman-air-jordan-photo-shoot-card2.jpg






















nope nevermind

https://i.ibb.co/gr0XxCk/oscar-robertson-cincinnati.jpg

:roll:

[HunterSThompson]

Kobe was arguably more skilled. The same way Bird and maybe Chris Paul are. Too bad the NBA isn't a figure skater contest. :confusedshrug:

Bird beat the piss out of MJ though. had his body held up he's easily the goat right now

as for Paul. he lacks the mental make up. he would have tons of accomplishments if he wasn't a mental midget that stood in his own way every single time

part of being skilled is finding any way to win when your backs against the wall. Paul just shrinks and hides like 2011 lebron

[GrayGoat]

I have Kobe over MJ

[ShawkFactory]

Kobe was arguably more skilled. The same way Bird and maybe Chris Paul are. Too bad the NBA isn't a figure skater contest. :confusedshrug:

:lol

Imagine if Jordan wasn’t a better player than Doctor J but someone tried to argue that he was by mentioning the switch from right to left no look layup that J didn’t do.

[hold this L]

A lot to meltdown over for the 12th best player of all time.

[MadDog]

Bird beat the piss out of MJ though. had his body held up he's easily the goat right now

as for Paul. he lacks the mental make up. he would have tons of accomplishments if he wasn't a mental midget that stood in his own way every single time

part of being skilled is finding any way to win when your backs against the wall. Paul just shrinks and hides like 2011 lebron

What, Jordan's first 2 or 3 years? Lol statistically Jordan outplayed Bird, who was fortunate that Jordan's sidekick was Charles Oakley. Idk where Bird ranks if he were "healthy" but do agree he'd be greater than he is now.

Forget about accomplishments though. Kobe falls short in playoff and finals performances. They don't compare to guys like Kareem or Jordan who dominated. Say what you want about LeBron, but statistically he's also a better finals performer - and has the hardware to back it up.


:lol

Imagine if Jordan wasn’t a better player than Doctor J but someone tried to argue that he was by mentioning the switch from right to left no look layup that J didn’t do.

Brings up a "SKILLZ!!" argument then runs to physical and mental attributes lol. Lets be honest, OP doesn't have a set criteria.

[SouBeachTalents]

What, Jordan's first 2 or 3 years? Lol statistically Jordan outplayed Bird, who was fortunate that Jordan's sidekick was Charles Oakley. Idk where Bird would've been ranked if he were healthy, but do agree he'd be greater than he is now.

Forget about accomplishments though. Kobe falls short in playoff and finals performances. They don't compare to guys like Kareem or Jordan who dominated. Say what you want about LeBron, but statistically he's also a better finals performer - and has the hardware to back it up.
Kobe was the worst Finals performer of any top 10-12 player. He was even worse in elimination games.

[MadDog]

Kobe was the worst Finals performer of any top 10-12 player. He was even worse in elimination games.

MAMBA MENTALITY though.

[RRR3]

What, Jordan's first 2 or 3 years? Lol statistically Jordan outplayed Bird, who was fortunate that Jordan's sidekick was Charles Oakley. Idk where Bird ranks if he were "healthy" but do agree he'd be greater than he is now.

Forget about accomplishments though. Kobe falls short in playoff and finals performances. They don't compare to guys like Kareem or Jordan who dominated. Say what you want about LeBron, but statistically he's also a better finals performer - and has the hardware to back it up.



Brings up a "SKILLZ!!" argument then runs to physical and mental attributes lol. Lets be honest, OP doesn't have a set criteria.
It’s impossible to have a set criteria if you claim Kobe is the GOAT because there’s no consistent argument you can make for him being the GOAT.

[RRR3]

MAMBA MENTALITY though.
Cold blooded assassin killah instink five rangz clutch jean!

[SouBeachTalents]

https://www.raptorsrepublic.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/kobebite-1024x576.jpg

[RRR3]

Where’s 3ball? We all know he secretly agrees with OP. Why’s he too much of a sniveling bitch to admit it though?

[ShawkFactory]

Where’s 3ball? We all know he secretly agrees with OP. Why’s he too much of a sniveling bitch to admit it though?

You bring up an interesting point. Usually he’s all over any thread that questions any aspect of Jordan being the GOAT.

[Gohan]

I agree with op, ive always secretly thought this

[RRR3]

You bring up an interesting point. Usually he’s all over any thread that questions any aspect of Jordan being the GOAT.
Yeah but not this one even though he’s been spamming all day. Surely just a coincidence though :rolleyes:

[HunterSThompson]

You bring up an interesting point. Usually he’s all over any thread that questions any aspect of Jordan being the GOAT.

jordan is the goat for career/prime/accomplishments/impact/style/respect/public opinion

kobe is the goat for skills/talent/fundamentals/off arm/counters/work ethic/drive/difficulty/eye test/1on1

[RRR3]

Shaq would brutalize Kobe on one one. Kenny is retarded

[HunterSThompson]

Shaq would brutalize Kobe on one one. Kenny is retarded

wrong. theres no foul out in 1 on 1 and you call your own fouls or play on and ignore it as an offensive player. shaq would call fouls on his backdowns and then realize he couldn't get to the rim unless he let kobe hack. then kobe would strip him. it happens all the time at the park. bigger guys fail all the time at 1 on 1 vs skilled players and they eventually gas out

[ShawkFactory]

jordan is the goat for career/prime/accomplishments/impact/style/respect/public opinion

kobe is the goat for skills/talent/fundamentals/off arm/counters/work ethic/drive/difficulty/eye test/1on1

:roll:

...No.

[HunterSThompson]

:roll:

...No.

kobe doesn't have the most skills?
kobe isn't the most polished?
kobe doesn't have the best left hand?
kobe doesn't have the most counters?
kobe didn't put in the most time in the gym?
kobe didn't live basketball 24/7?
kobe didn't make the highest difficulty shots?
kobe wasn't the most aesthetically pleasing?
kobe doesn't have the most creative shot/layup/dunk highlight packages on youtube?
kobe isn't thought of as the best 1 on 1 player by nearly everyone including MJ?


what are you in dispute of. everything? 1 thing? multiple things? why are you shocked. its like you're new to the game. this is majority opinion by most players and fans for the past 30 or 40 years



take the surprise out your mouth

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ExOWyNZXAAESp0r.jpg

[RRR3]

wrong. theres no foul out in 1 on 1 and you call your own fouls or play on and ignore it as an offensive player. shaq would call fouls on his backdowns and then realize he couldn't get to the rim unless he let kobe hack. then kobe would strip him. it happens all the time at the park. bigger guys fail all the time at 1 on 1 vs skilled players and they eventually gas out
You’ve never played one on one in your life.

[ShawkFactory]

kobe doesn't have the most skills?
kobe isn't the most polished?
kobe doesn't have the best left hand?
kobe doesn't have the most counters?
kobe didn't put in the most time in the gym?
kobe didn't live basketball 24/7?
kobe didn't make the highest difficulty shots?
kobe wasn't the most aesthetically pleasing?
kobe doesn't have the most creative shot/layup/dunk highlight packages on youtube?
kobe isn't thought of as the best 1 on 1 player by nearly everyone including MJ?


what are you in dispute of. everything? 1 thing? multiple things? why are you shocked. this makes literally no sense. its like you're new to the game. this is majority opinion by most players and fans for the past 30 or 40 years




https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ExOWyNZXAAESp0r.jpg

What you said in the previous post is that Jordan had the better career but that Kobe was the better basketball player.

Your smarmy baiting isn’t going to get me into a disputing a fake argument that you’ve probably tried to have thousands of times.

You’re the same guy who just said that being the smartest quarterback doesn’t make you the best. It’s all about dat arm strength

[RRR3]

Kobe was not more skilled than Chris Paul.

[HunterSThompson]

You’ve never played one on one in your life.

i played 1 on 1 every day for hours from ages 10 to 35 or so and theres never been foul outs. we've always called our own fouls. big men with slow back down moves get hacked/stripped all the time and gas out demanding water after a game to 21 literally ever single time and its usually by point 7 or 8 that they're on the floor in the hot sun. shaq wouldn't stand a chance vs a great defender with that reach around strip maneuver. he would have to settle with jumpers. no way would kobe let him back down from the 3 point line

[HunterSThompson]

Kobe was not more skilled than Chris Paul.

and like i said. if paul wasn't a mental midget he would be a top 20 player ever. he shit the bed literally every time hes ever had a chance to do anything in his life


and being able to do things under intense pressure is also a skill

[RRR3]

i played 1 on 1 every day for hours from ages 10 to 35 or so and theres never been foul outs. we've always called our own fouls. big men with slow back down moves get hacked/stripped all the time and gas out demanding water after a game to 21 literally ever single time and its usually by point 7 or 8 that they're on the floor in the hot sun. shaq wouldn't stand a chance vs a great defender with that reach around strip maneuver. he would have to settle with jumpers. no way would kobe let him back down from the 3 point line
You are truly a special kind of stupid.

[RRR3]

and like i said. if paul wasn't a mental midget he would be a top 20 player ever. he shit the bed literally every time hes ever had a chance to do anything in his life


and being able to do things under intense pressure is also a skill
Skip Bayless level arguments as usual.

[HunterSThompson]

What you said in the previous post is that Jordan had the better career but that Kobe was the better basketball player.

Your smarmy baiting isn’t going to get me into a disputing a fake argument that you’ve probably tried to have thousands of times.

You’re the same guy who just said that being the smartest quarterback doesn’t make you the best. It’s all about dat arm strength

tmac is infinitely more skilled than everyone in the top 20 all time aside from MJ/Kobe/Durant/Bird/Hakeem.

it is possible to have a way better career because of circumstances. tmac had bad teams, no heart, poor health, unfortunate circumstances with teammates

shit happens... like how kobe got screwed a bunch on stuff like that as well ( minus no heart ). but not as much as tmac


sometimes it just comes down to luck

[HunterSThompson]

Skip Bayless level arguments as usual.

so you don't think being able to stay calm when your legacy is on the line is a skill?

kobe by age 21 was literally more advanced mentally than paul ever was. its pathetic


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ckk2wpORpOo&ab_channel=AL%27SHIGHLIGHTSWORLD


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSdhzK-ud3U&ab_channel=sburkha3

[Kawhi_Why_Not]

today people laugh at the idea of kawhi being named league mvp and he might be the closest thing to kobe and Jordan that ever existed in terms of relative skill and size

think about that for a minute. that's how extremely rare it is to be a dynamic average sized wing and be the best in the world

Average size? Kawhi is the one with gigantic hands, Kobe had small hands. Kawhi is the one with gigantic linebacker shoulders, Kobe is skinny. Kawhi also has a 7"3 wingspan to Kobe's 6"11.

On top of that, kawhi is a much better shooter and more efficient then Kobe ever was. A much better defender and a much better rebounder.

Kawhi is simply the more naturally gifted athlete, as well as the more skilled player..

[SouBeachTalents]

tmac is infinitely more skilled than everyone in the top 20 all time aside from MJ/Kobe/Durant/Bird/Hakeem.

it is possible to have a way better career because of circumstances. tmac had bad teams, no heart, poor health, unfortunate circumstances with teammates

shit happens... like how kobe got screwed a bunch on stuff like that as well ( minus no heart ). but not as much as tmac


sometimes it just comes down to luck
Kobe legitimately had the luckiest career in NBA history

Gets traded to the leagues marquee franchise and gets gifted peak Shaq
Later gets Phil Jackson as coach
Wins a title averaging 16 ppg on 41%TS in the Finals
'02 WCF, from Horry's season saving shot to the refs handing them Game 6
All the critical shots hit by teammates, Fisher vs. Orlando, Gasol vs. OKC, Artest vs. Phoenix, his dagger in Game 7
Wins Game 7 of the Finals despite shooting an atrocious 6/24 from the field

I mean seriously, how many players get the luxury of having THREE of their bricks get turned into playoff GW's :lol And not just GW's, 3 shots that completely changed the trajectory of the series


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1E2dhpTc4I&ab_channel=NbaReligion


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GklQlH1z_KE&ab_channel=arch91reborn


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4seP2wD_K4&ab_channel=sebas000075

[HunterSThompson]

Average size? Kawhi is the one with gigantic hands, Kobe had small hands. Kawhi is the one with gigantic linebacker shoulders, Kobe is skinny. Kawhi also has a 7"3 wingspan to Kobe's 6"11.

On top of that, kawhi is a much better shooter and more efficient then Kobe ever was. A much better defender and a much better rebounder.

Kawhi is simply the more naturally gifted athlete, as well as the more skilled player..

so you're saying kawhi is great more so because of physical advantages rather than skill. and dominates more so cause of his freakishly large shaq like hands, center type wing span

ok you're right. tmac is the closest thing to kobe/MJ ... jordan had big hands but i don't think he had david robinsons shoulders and manute bols wing span like kawhi did

damn boi. you got me. i guess kawhi's in the big man category. hes like charles barkley. you win... not all bigs come in 6'9 frames

kawhi = trash

https://c.tenor.com/loTzP8Ju0Q8AAAAC/anton-chigurh-no-country-for-old-men.gif

[HunterSThompson]

Kobe legitimately had the luckiest career in NBA history

Gets traded to the leagues marquee franchise and gets gifted peak Shaq
Later gets Phil Jackson as coach
Wins a title averaging 16 ppg on 41%TS in the Finals
'02 WCF, from Horry's season saving shot to the refs handing them Game 6
All the critical shots hit by teammates, Fisher vs. Orlando, Gasol vs. OKC, Artest vs. Phoenix, his dagger in Game 7
Wins Game 7 of the Finals despite shooting an atrocious 6/24 from the field

I mean seriously, how many players get the luxury of having THREE of their bricks get turned into playoff GW's And not just GW's, 3 shots that completely changed the trajectory of the series


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1E2dhpTc4I&ab_channel=NbaReligion


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GklQlH1z_KE&ab_channel=arch91reborn


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4seP2wD_K4&ab_channel=sebas000075




so lucky

https://s22928.pcdn.co/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/ocreg-kobebryantinjuries.png

https://ftw.usatoday.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/90/2014/03/ap-lakes-kobe-basketball.jpg?w=1024&h=576&crop=1

https://thevividintellect.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/a0nzvhua.jpeg

https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/4b9de1a/2147483647/strip/true/crop/2392x1346+0+0/resize/1200x675!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcalifornia-times-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2Ff0%2Fad%2Fd224abfa49 878b51598c07ae889a%2F067701.ME.0718.kobe10.ls.jpg


https://fadeawayworld.net/.image/t_share/MTgwMTMyOTM1MjE4NzAxNDM0/shaq-on-steve-nashs-mvps--he-got-two-i-got-one-kobe-got-one-somethings-wrong-with-that-picture.jpg

[HunterSThompson]

luckiest player ever

https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/234e81b/2147483647/strip/true/crop/4759x2880+0+0/resize/1486x899!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcalifornia-times-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2F8d%2Fbf%2Fa9c6e2344a 71a1c16146f972b2cd%2Fhelicopter-crash-kobe-bryant-killed-20145.jpg

[HunterSThompson]

so lucky


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DbQ5Euf4zo&ab_channel=AJFoss

[HunterSThompson]

pure luck

https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/13732324.jpg

[HunterSThompson]

i'm here instead cause kobe can't get enough luck


https://sportstalkflorida.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/steve-nash-injury-640x3601.jpg

[HunterSThompson]

i'm sitting this finals out... for luck reasons

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/-L-QWu1hck7Or6J_leL2TKIeL-s=/0x0:233x260/1200x800/filters:focal(98x112:134x148)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/64174738/590070331.0.jpg

[HunterSThompson]

hey kobe. i heard you needed some luck. so i'm skipping the finals this year

https://www.dailynews.com/wp-content/uploads/migration/2009/200901/NEWS_901319790_AR_0_0.jpg?w=640

[1987_Lakers]

Damage control thread. OP hasn't been the same since I pointed out peak Kobe wasn't THAT much better than his 22 year old self, made him realize buying those Luka cards may have been a mistake. :oldlol:

[HunterSThompson]

sorry kobe. i know we're having a great season in your first year without shaq. but i gotta quit for luck reasons and sabotage everything

https://i.ibb.co/XYZ0fYx/Screen-Shot-2022-01-27-at-3-06-47-PM.png

[HunterSThompson]

sorry kobe but i got a nice piece of luck for yeah right here


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_wykgldWLU&ab_channel=SunsDynastyXcom


https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/7VSB9LIkqXsH2yY9iCzadb8NPTM=/0x255:2163x1697/1400x1400/filters:focal(0x255:2163x1697):format(jpeg)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/46698324/GettyImages-57536970.0.jpg

[HunterSThompson]

boy is kobe in for some luck with me

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/53/Dwight_Howard_Lakers_February_2013.jpg

[HunterSThompson]

https://i.ibb.co/Tr0ks1W/Screen-Shot-2022-01-27-at-3-13-42-PM.png


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEGdCDQrgX4

[1987_Lakers]

"I know we are having a great season in your first year without Shaq"

Kobe's shooting in November: 41%
December: 39%
January: 43%

:roll:

[Kawhi_Why_Not]

Kobe legitimately had the luckiest career in NBA history

Gets traded to the leagues marquee franchise and gets gifted peak Shaq
Later gets Phil Jackson as coach
Wins a title averaging 16 ppg on 41%TS in the Finals
'02 WCF, from Horry's season saving shot to the refs handing them Game 6
All the critical shots hit by teammates, Fisher vs. Orlando, Gasol vs. OKC, Artest vs. Phoenix, his dagger in Game 7
Wins Game 7 of the Finals despite shooting an atrocious 6/24 from the field

I mean seriously, how many players get the luxury of having THREE of their bricks get turned into playoff GW's :lol And not just GW's, 3 shots that completely changed the trajectory of the series


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1E2dhpTc4I&ab_channel=NbaReligion


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GklQlH1z_KE&ab_channel=arch91reborn


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4seP2wD_K4&ab_channel=sebas000075

He made 1 game winner in the 1st round vs suns and started showing off his nipples like he was going to rape someone again. Didn't even end up winning the series. Horry hit the big shot in 2002 wcf after Kobe couldn't even make a layup that possession, then fisher in 2004 and artest in 2010.

Kawhi made a 2nd round game 7 buzzer beater

[RRR3]

Damage control thread. OP hasn't been the same since I pointed out peak Kobe wasn't THAT much better than his 22 year old self, made him realize buying those Luka cards may have been a mistake. :oldlol:
:oldlol:

[HunterSThompson]

https://i.ibb.co/yS9Z78L/Screen-Shot-2022-01-27-at-3-20-49-PM.png


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9wsjroVlu8

[HunterSThompson]

He made 1 game winner in the 1st round vs suns and started showing off his nipples like he was going to rape someone again. Didn't even end up winning the series. Horry hit the big shot in 2002 wcf after Kobe couldn't even make a layup that possession, then fisher in 2004 and artest in 2010.

Kawhi made a 2nd round game 7 buzzer beater


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JxwOzg1Dc0&ab_channel=AllThingsGoodSports


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJifooCpUyE&ab_channel=AllThingsGoodSports


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNs2DdbRqhQ&ab_channel=AllThingsGoodSports


https://media0.giphy.com/media/cUIX3QHGEyfow1QZgw/giphy.gif

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DrearyBouncyHind-size_restricted.gif

[John_Connor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JxwOzg1Dc0&ab_channel=AllThingsGoodSports


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJifooCpUyE&ab_channel=AllThingsGoodSports


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNs2DdbRqhQ&ab_channel=AllThingsGoodSports


https://media0.giphy.com/media/cUIX3QHGEyfow1QZgw/giphy.gif

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DrearyBouncyHind-size_restricted.gif

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSzfyTnYpLaW9NEJNEMYemhR95_gCEY7 QSp9-49thdzxpG7FIqpsc3jCz5SJHlUwJVJ4Lw&usqp=CAU

[SouBeachTalents]

So because you didn't get literally everything in your career to go right, this means you were "unlucky" :lol

I could point to several instances where Tom Brady was unlucky, most notably the Tyree play, but that doesn't offset the dozens of times he and the Pats received a fortunate break.

You can even tear apart most of Kenny's rebuttals indicating how "unlucky" Kobe was

Kobe only has 1 MVP? He was very fortunate to even have one, that could have EASILY went to CP3

Horry's miss in '03? The ONE instance his teammate didn't hit a series altering shot :lol Let's not forget Kobe's dreadful Game 6 the following game

He didn't get CP3? He gets Dwight & Nash coming off all-star seasons instead

Malone got injured in '04? How about don't have one of the worst Finals in NBA history while wasting Shaq's performance

Bynum was injured in '08? How about KG getting injured in '09 with the Celtics looking primed to repeat. Or Perkins for his brickfest in Game 7

Rudy resigns? He gets Phil Jackson back for the next 5 years

Someone hits a big shot against him in the first round? Let's not forget that Kobe blatantly quit in Game 7

[1987_Lakers]

Kobe on game winning shots from '03-'09: 14 of 56 (25%)

https://giphy.com/gifs/espn-lebron-james-look-up-cUIX3QHGEyfow1QZgw

[1987_Lakers]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSzfyTnYpLaW9NEJNEMYemhR95_gCEY7 QSp9-49thdzxpG7FIqpsc3jCz5SJHlUwJVJ4Lw&usqp=CAU

Nice to see you log into your alt just to see my posts. :lol

[Kawhi_Why_Not]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JxwOzg1Dc0&ab_channel=AllThingsGoodSports


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJifooCpUyE&ab_channel=AllThingsGoodSports


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNs2DdbRqhQ&ab_channel=AllThingsGoodSports


https://media0.giphy.com/media/cUIX3QHGEyfow1QZgw/giphy.gif

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DrearyBouncyHind-size_restricted.gif

So no game winners past the 1st round? Thank you for proving my point. I just threw you off a helicopter hahahahah

[HunterSThompson]

So no game winners past the 1st round? Thank you for proving my point. I just threw you off a helicopter hahahahah


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bNeQkcjLJg&ab_channel=Str8Ridah%27

https://c.tenor.com/hSwVIvngyakAAAAM/brian-regan-comedian.gif


and maybe he was too busy destroying teams most of the time. usually a guy with a bunch of playoff buzzer beaters means he was losing half of the time. kobe was winning

https://i.ibb.co/WsyqD0d/Screen-Shot-2022-01-27-at-4-09-09-PM.png

[Kawhi_Why_Not]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bNeQkcjLJg&ab_channel=Str8Ridah%27

https://c.tenor.com/hSwVIvngyakAAAAM/brian-regan-comedian.gif


and maybe he was too busy destroying teams most of the time. usually a guy with a bunch of playoff buzzer beaters means he was losing half of the time. kobe was winning

https://i.ibb.co/WsyqD0d/Screen-Shot-2022-01-27-at-4-09-09-PM.png

Well your next best player was shaq. There next best player was mike bibby. I hope you were winning. That still doesn't take away from the fact that Horry, fisher, artest had the 3 biggest shots from the 2000-2010 lakers

[HunterSThompson]

Well your next best player was shaq. There next best player was mike bibby. I hope you were winning. That still doesn't take away from the fact that Horry, fisher, artest had the 3 biggest shots from the 2000-2010 lakers


yeah but the lakers 3rd best player was mostly derek fisher while they played teams with these rosters


2000 Kings:

Chris Webber
Tony Delk
Vlade Divac
Jason Williams
Peja Stojakovic
Nick Anderson



2000 suns:

Jason Kidd
Penny Hardaway
Clifford Robinson
Shawn Marion
Luc Longley
Kevin Johnson

2000 blazers:

Rasheed Wallace
Steve Smith
Scottie Pippen
Bonzi Wells
Arvydas Sabonis
Damon Stoudamire
Brian Grant
Detlef Schrempf
Jermaine O'neal


2000 Pacers:

Reggie Miller
Jalen Rose
Rick Smits
Mark Jackson
Dale Davis
Sam Perkins
Austin Croshere


2001 Blazers: ( almost the same but with Rod Strickland added )

2001 Kings: ( almost the same but with Hedo Turkoglu, Doug Christie and Bobby Jackson added )

2001 Spurs:

Tim Duncan
David Robinson
Avery Johnson
Antonio Daniels
Terry porter
Malik Rose
Derek Anderson
Sean Elliott
Steve Kerr

2001 Sixers:

Allen Iverson
Dikembe Mutombo
Eric Snow
Aaron Mckie
Tyrone Hill
Raja Bell


2002 Blazers:

Rasheed Wallace
Scottie Pippen
Derek Anderson
Bonzi Wells
Steve Kerr
Rubin Patterson
Damon Stoudemire
Shawn Kemp
Dale Davis

2002 Spurs:

Tim Duncan
David Robinson
Tony Parker
Bruce Bowen
Steve Smith
Antonio Daniels
Malik Rose


2002 Kings:

Chris Webber
Mike Bibby
Vlade Divac
Bobby Jackson
Hedo Turkoglu
Doug Christie


2002 Nets:

Jason Kidd
Kenyon Martin
Kerry Kittles
Keith Van Horn
Richard Jefferson
Todd MacCulloch




all these guys are better than derek fisher


it was literally kobe and shaq with bums for every ring. they had glen rice for the first one ok but literally every team in 2001, 2002, 2003 had a better 3 through 12

and especially in the 2004 finals after malones injury

i mean yeah horry hit a clutch three. so did fisher. but after that they weren't anything special. ok defenders maybe

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/ROIAAOSwuMFUkFUp/s-l400.jpg

this is the goat playoff team apparently LOL

[Ne 1]

today people laugh at the idea of kawhi being named league mvp and he might be the closest thing to kobe and Jordan that ever existed in terms of relative skill and size

think about that for a minute. that's how extremely rare it is to be a dynamic average sized wing and be the best in the world

Jordan was 2 inches talker than an average shooting guard in the 1990s. Kobe was the average height of a shooting guard in the 2000s, and Kawhi is the average height of a small forward in today's game.

[Full Court]

Calling Kobe the greatest player of all time is even sillier than calling Lebum the greatest player of all time. You can have an intelligent debate about who the GOAT is being that it's subjective, but somehow you guys have latched on to two fringe top 10 guys, Kobe and Lebum, and are desperately trying to convince everyone that they're the best. Nobody's buying it, and you're not going to convince anyone.

[John8204]

I can make a GOAT case for eight men

MJ, Wilt, Lebron, Bird, Kareem, Russell, Magic and Mikan

That leaves 2 spots in the top ten for 7 guys

Oscar, Duncan, Kobe, Hakeem, West, Moses and Dr. Jay

Kobe's top ten, top of the 2nd tier guys

[GrayGoat]

Anyone calling Bron a fringe top 10 player is out of their mind

[HunterSThompson]

I can make a GOAT case for eight men

MJ, Wilt, Lebron, Bird, Kareem, Russell, Magic and Mikan

That leaves 2 spots in the top ten for 7 guys

Oscar, Duncan, Kobe, Hakeem, West, Moses and Dr. Jay

Kobe's top ten, top of the 2nd tier guys

no

https://clutchpoints.com/nba-news-players-overwhelmingly-vote-michael-jordan-goat-over-lebron-james-kobe-bryant/

in today's world the only guys with goat arguments are jordan, Kobe and lebron

Michael Jordan (73%)
LeBron James (11.9%)
Kobe Bryant (10.6%)
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (1.7%)

this is how the current nba players voted. it is a time relative opinion based formula and the 3 biggest names are MJ, Kobe and lebron

guys like magic or Bird or wilt or Russell are afterthoughts. they're highly regarded. mount Rushmore type guys for sure. but a goat? no. you need an overwhelming amount of support for that case and Jordan is the run away and kobe and lebron are the outside shots

[John8204]

Players are always going to vote for who they saw, the thing with Jordan and Kobe is while they were great in their era's would they have performed well from 1950-1989 when the game was harder.

[ImKobe]

Kobe was arguably the most skilled player and won the most titles in his era (00-13) & is considered to be the greatest player of the greatest franchise in NBA history, that's why he's in the GOAT convo, simple & plain.


Players are always going to vote for who they saw, the thing with Jordan and Kobe is while they were great in their era's would they have performed well from 1950-1989 when the game was harder.

With the skill they had & the rules they played under? Of course. MJ DOMINATED in the 80s and he had nobodies on his team and was still a tough out in the late 80s and won DPOY & MVP the same year and won Playoff series where he was the best defensive player on his team while also scoring more than his 2nd and 3rd and his 4th option combined and on much better efficiency.


And before anyone wants to rebuttal this by saying that his death enhanced his legacy - West, Shaq & I believe Magic all called him the greatest Laker before his untimely passing.


Calling Kobe the greatest player of all time is even sillier than calling Lebum the greatest player of all time. You can have an intelligent debate about who the GOAT is being that it's subjective, but somehow you guys have latched on to two fringe top 10 guys, Kobe and Lebum, and are desperately trying to convince everyone that they're the best. Nobody's buying it, and you're not going to convince anyone.

MJ is the obvious GOAT and there's no denying that, Kobe's the 2nd best thing to MJ and that is why he's in the top 2-5 GOAT conversation.

[HunterSThompson]

Kobe was arguably the most skilled player and won the most titles in his era (00-13) & is considered to be the greatest player of the greatest franchise in NBA history, that's why he's in the GOAT convo, simple & plain.



With the skill they had & the rules they played under? Of course. MJ DOMINATED in the 80s and he had nobodies on his team and was still a tough out in the late 80s and won DPOY & MVP the same year and won Playoff series where he was the best defensive player on his team while also scoring more than his 2nd and 3rd and his 4th option combined and on much better efficiency.


And before anyone wants to rebuttal this by saying that his death enhanced his legacy - West, Shaq & I believe Magic all called him the greatest Laker before his untimely passing.



MJ is the obvious GOAT and there's no denying that, Kobe's the 2nd best thing to MJ and that is why he's in the top 2-5 GOAT conversation.

personally I genuinely believe it just comes down to who you're a fan of.

there's team jordan (probly a billion people)
there's team kobe (probly 100 million people)
there's team lebron (probly 100 million people)

then every other team has 10 million at most and most of them will be dead soon

its a completely subjective opinion based argument depending on what you value most


il admit jordan is the goat by majority opinion but personally I think Kobe would rape him 1 on 1 and even MJ admitted it

[John8204]

With the skill they had & the rules they played under? Of course. MJ DOMINATED in the 80s and he had nobodies on his team and was still a tough out in the late 80s and won DPOY & MVP the same year and won Playoff series where he was the best defensive player on his team while also scoring more than his 2nd and 3rd and his 4th option combined and on much better efficiency

MJ was the best single star in the 80's but the 80's had super teams and Jordan's ego and rules made it impossible for him to win. He would not have beaten The Lakers, Celtics, Pistons, Rockets and 76ers

[red1]

RIP kobe. He's probably my most respected NBA player of all time because of his work ethic. He literally inspired and helped me in my career.

He's also one of my least liked players from a fan perspective going back to the shaq and kobe days.

I was immature and I disliked lakers fans from the 2000's. They were spoiled and obnoxious because they repped the NBA's undisputed premier franchise.

Kobe is top 10. Somewhere between 6-10. Not that rankings matter - you can't rank him above guys that had abnormal physical advantages over the average human being. Skill will only take you so far.

You can emulate Kobe's game but you'll never be a 6'9 pointguard with coordination like Magic or Lebron, or an abnormally athletic 7-foot human being like the rest of the top-5.

[red1]

Kobe is a true legend though. He inspired a generation. I can definitely say that he's a hero.


Kobe Forever.


https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61WppPbLBpL._AC_SY679_.jpg
https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/db9a166/2147483647/strip/true/crop/1658x2068+0+0/resize/840x1048!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcalifornia-times-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fd7%2F45%2F56d5fb5240 759e08ca3b4403122c%2Fla-sp-kobe-drawing.JPG

[red1]

5-stars for you OP. Even though I disagree.

[Micku]

I like how Gibert Arenas said it one time.

MJ is the GOAT and is at the mountain top. Many ppl tried to emulate him and try to reach there.

But Kobe was the only one that emulated his style the most. And he wasn't as athletic as him. He wasn't even the most athletic among his peers like Vince Carter and he wasn't as tall as T-Mac. But what he did had was legendary work ethic and tried to work on his skills to perfection. So, even though he still wasn't as quite as good as MJ, he made it a conversation for a bit.

Imo, he could've been better if his shot selection was better.

In terms of footwork, drive, and ability to shoot from almost anywhere on the court and get shot off from any situation, Kobe was that dude along with MJ. Kobe is always a legend not only in LA, but sports history.