Every mainstream narrative about Lebron is the exact opposite of the truth

[3ba11]

.
1) Lebron plays all 5 positions



* he can't play the off-guard position, aka running off screens, etc

* he can't defend as a center and has never posted up for most of his field goals in any game, aka he's never played center... i.e. the announcer says he's starting at center, but Lebron plays his normal PG role after tip-off (aka it's BS)


3) Lebron can carry bad teams


* Iverson, Kidd, Dwight and 07' Lebron won the East with 1-star teams, yet Lebron failed to win it with homecourt in 09' or 10' - he needed super-teams in a conference that 1-star teams were winning to produce the "Finals streak", and otherwise is lottery out West without AD being the "jordan" statistical leader (2020 playoff scoring champ).

* Failed to carry the East all-star center to the 05' Playoffs and needed to add a 22/5/5 all-defender and future COY to make 06' Playoffs.

* He had a bummy, 45-win team until Mo's spacing effect (prime-Klay offense) gave him a 66-win league favorite.


2) Lebron is a high IQ player


* He simply amasses enough talent to win (all-star team strategy) and never won via organic chemistry, superior strategy, or brand of ball.

* Lebron has many losses to superior brand of ball despite having a favorite or super-team each time (09', 10', 11', 14', 17').

* He fields low-assist teams that have inferior team offense, strategy and brand than the teams that beat him.. The inferior strategy necessitates more supporting talent and makes Lebron's teams the neediest in NBA history - the story for 20 years is how his teams need more help.

* He never evolved out of ball-dominant offenses that revolve around him, so he never learned to elevate teammates beyond spot-up roles.. Since he can't elevate teammates, he never learned how to win (organic chemistry) and had to team-hop (talent-based winning).

* He starts at forward but then becomes a 2nd point guard on the floor (2nd player with a point guard hold-time).. These 2 point guard lineups give teammates less hold-time and assists than they get in traditional 1 point guard lineups, so the TEAM has low assists and a brand that struggles on the championship level.

* Lebron is built like Karl Malone but dribbles like Isiah - people conflate this physical talent with being a high IQ player - but his frontcourt ball-dominance and resulting low-assist teams proves otherwise... People also assume he could play like Karl Malone - Lebron can't play like Karl, who scored nearly 40k points AS THE ROLL MAN and off-ball or post-up.. That's the precise opposite of Lebron's skillset.

* Arguably no one lost with good teams more... He turned preseason favorites into Finals underdog or loser for 6 straight years (11-16') - that obviously isn't smart or high IQ but we already know that frontcourt ball-dominance underachieves a team's talent.

[HunterSThompson]

man just buy some lebron rookies and sit back and don't give a f*ck anymore about his meaningless Kareem record chase like me. it's hilarious. he's like a capuchin performing street monkey to me now



https://youtu.be/cAuE800cM5k

[FKAri]

.
1) Lebron plays all 5 positions



* he can't play the off-guard position, aka running off screens, etc

* he can't defend as a center and has never posted up for most of his field goals in any game, aka he's never played center... i.e. the announcer says he's starting at center, but Lebron plays his normal PG role after tip-off (aka it's BS)


3) Lebron can carry bad teams


* Iverson, Kidd, Dwight and 07' Lebron won the East with 1-star teams, yet Lebron failed to win it with homecourt in 09' or 10' - he needed super-teams in a conference that 1-star teams were winning to produce the "Finals streak", and otherwise is lottery out West without AD being the "jordan" statistical leader (2020 playoff scoring champ).

* Failed to carry the East all-star center to the 05' Playoffs and needed to add a 22/5/5 all-defender and future COY to make 06' Playoffs.

* He had a bummy, 45-win team until Mo's spacing effect (prime-Klay offense) gave him a 66-win league favorite.


2) Lebron is a high IQ player


* He simply amasses enough talent to win (all-star team strategy) and never won via organic chemistry, superior strategy, or brand of ball.

* Lebron has many losses to superior brand of ball despite having a favorite or super-team each time (09', 10', 11', 14', 17').

* He fields low-assist teams that have inferior team offense, strategy and brand than the teams that beat him.. The inferior strategy necessitates more supporting talent and makes Lebron's teams the neediest in NBA history - the story for 20 years is how his teams need more help.

* He never evolved out of ball-dominant offenses that revolve around him, so he never learned to elevate teammates beyond spot-up roles.. Since he can't elevate teammates, he never learned how to win (organic chemistry) and had to team-hop (talent-based winning).

* He starts at forward but then becomes a 2nd point guard on the floor (2nd player with a point guard hold-time).. These 2 point guard lineups give teammates less hold-time and assists than they get in traditional 1 point guard lineups, so the TEAM has low assists and a brand that struggles on the championship level.

* Lebron is built like Karl Malone but dribbles like Isiah - people conflate this physical talent with being a high IQ player - but his frontcourt ball-dominance and resulting low-assist teams proves otherwise... People also assume he could play like Karl Malone - Lebron can't play like Karl, who scored nearly 40k points AS THE ROLL MAN.. That's the precise opposite of Lebron's skillset.



The biggest lie about Lebron's career is that he can lead bums to the playoffs (replacement level players)



* Zydrunas was the East all-star center - not a bum

* Hughes was a 22/5/5 all-defender - not a bum

* Brown was the future COY - not a bum.

* the Cavs were a top defense and rebounding team - not bummy


Lebron literally had developed, high seeds everytime he made the playoffs that included all-stars and other decorated players, along with great defenses and rebounding.. he virtually NEVER led a bum cast to the playoffs.

he actually missed the playoffs with Ingram/Rondo or the East all-star center (Zydrunas), and needed ridiculous additions to make the playoffs

Ultimately, Jordan had nothing when he made the playoffs and was in a conference that required a super-team to win it, while Lebron had a 2-time all-star center, a 22/5/5 acquisition, the COY, and top rebounding/defensive teams in a conference that 1-star teams routinely won

[3ba11]

The biggest lie about Lebron's career is that he can lead bums to the playoffs (replacement level players)



* Zydrunas was the East all-star center - not a bum

* Hughes was a 22/5/5 all-defender - not a bum

* Brown was the future COY - not a bum.

* the Cavs were a top defense and rebounding team - not bummy


Lebron literally had developed, high seeds everytime he made the playoffs that included all-stars and other decorated players, along with great defenses and rebounding.. he virtually NEVER led a bum cast to the playoffs.

he actually missed the playoffs with Ingram/Rondo or the East all-star center (Zydrunas), and needed ridiculous additions to make the playoffs

Ultimately, Jordan had nothing when he made the playoffs and was in a conference that required a super-team to win it, while Lebron had a 2-time all-star center, a 22/5/5 acquisition, the COY, and top rebounding/defensive teams in a conference that 1-star teams routinely won


Indeed, Lebron benefitted from having 3 years to develop his team into a favored, high seed before entering the 06' Playoffs.. When MJ had 3 years to develop his team (88'), he made the 2nd round just like 06' Lebron..

Except Jordan had a young low seed in a conference that required a super-team to win, while Lebron had veteran, high seed in a conference that 1-star teams were winning.

Heck, Arenas/Hughes made the 2nd Round in 05', and then Lebron stole Hughes to beat Arenas in 06' - so Lebron always had better casts than his Eastern opponents (high seeds).. He infact failed to carry lottery casts (teams that were lottery the prior year) to low playoff seeds in 04', 05', and 19' - he only made the playoffs with favored high seeds

[bullettooth]

Only reason why the media makes up this shit is so they can get views. They had the actual GOAT in the 90s pull in so many views and ratings, they thought they were entitled to endless ad revenue. So.... LeBron was their target to sell better. Unfortunately LeBron's career has been riddled with embarrassing black marks so it they've needed to sweep that shit under the rug.

Realistically, LeBron is a piece of shit too though, it aint all his fault for how popular he's become.... but he has taken advantage of it and completely SHIT ON the spirit of sport; the collusion, shortcuts, team hopping, league help, flopping. The guy's a fraud. The day he retires is when we can slowly go back to watching players actually compete against eachother.

[John8204]

The thing about Michael Jordan is he should be the GOAT but when Jordan stans talk they sound like the crazy guy on the corner wearing a tinfoil hat and screaming at the meter maid. What they are screaming might be right but do you really want to be associated with them.

[Spurs m8]

Can't argue with facts.

I mean, I guess you could leave out context, lie and do a lot of mental gymnastics...but I'll leave that to the bron stans and kawhi stan

[Hey Yo]

Indeed, Lebron benefitted from having 3 years to develop his team into a favored, high seed before entering the 06' Playoffs.. When MJ had 3 years to develop his team (88'), he made the 2nd round just like 06' Lebron..

Except Jordan had a young low seed in a conference that required a super-team to win, while Lebron had veteran, high seed in a conference that 1-star teams were winning.

Heck, Arenas/Hughes made the 2nd Round in 05', and then Lebron stole Hughes to beat Arenas in 06' - so Lebron always had better casts than his Eastern opponents (high seeds).. He infact failed to carry lottery casts (teams that were lottery the prior year) to low playoff seeds in 04', 05', and 19' - he only made the playoffs with favored high seeds
Detroit was nothing close to a superteam in 88 or 89. They had the same amount of players repping the All-star game those 2 years as the Bulls.

[3ba11]

Detroit was nothing close to a superteam in 88 or 89. They had the same amount of players repping the All-star game those 2 years as the Bulls.


Laimbeer, Dantley and Aguirre were 3x all-stars and Dumars was like 91' Pippen (became a star that year, FMVP infact)

Otoh, Jordan's best teammate those years was a rebounder (Oakley), so he made the 88' ECSF and 89' ECF with virtually nothing - a complete lottery cast of undecorated players... Compare this to the all-star duo of (Lebron/Zydrunas) needing to add a 22/5/5 all-defender acquisition to make the 06' Playoffs.

[FilmyCogTurner]

Only reason why the media makes up this shit is so they can get views. They had the actual GOAT in the 90s pull in so many views and ratings, they thought they were entitled to endless ad revenue. So.... LeBron was their target to sell better. Unfortunately LeBron's career has been riddled with embarrassing black marks so it they've needed to sweep that shit under the rug.

Realistically, LeBron is a piece of shit too though, it aint all his fault for how popular he's become.... but he has taken advantage of it and completely SHIT ON the spirit of sport; the collusion, shortcuts, team hopping, league help, flopping. The guy's a fraud. The day he retires is when we can slowly go back to watching players actually compete against eachother.

Big facts and the list goes on... blames teammates, fakes injuries, anoints himself as the GOAT. Incredible feat to be an all time great and a disgrace all at once.

[Hey Yo]

Sorry, chico....

1988 all-star game.... Thomas for Detroi, Jordan for Chicago.

1989 all-star game.... see above.

[GrayGoat]

No Pippen? No chip’n

[3ba11]

No Pippen? No chip’n


no team-hoppin' for MULTIPLE pippin's, no chippin' and still mostly losin'

[3ba11]

Sorry, chico....

1988 all-star game.... Thomas for Detroi, Jordan for Chicago.

1989 all-star game.... see above.


The Piston dynasty had 3x all-stars at every starting spot, which is why they beat the Celtic/Lakers and would've 3-peated if the refs didn't rob them in Game 7 against the 88' Lakers..

So they were one of the goat dynasties just like the 18' Warriors, and Jordan overcame them organically.

[GrayGoat]

MJ wasn’t successful until he stacked the deck

[Hey Yo]

The Piston dynasty had 3x all-stars at every starting spot, which is why they beat the Celtic/Lakers and would've 3-peated if the refs didn't rob them in Game 7 against the 88' Lakers..

So they were one of the goat dynasties just like the 18' Warriors, and Jordan overcame them organically.

People don't realize that Jordan didn't just beat the Piston dynasty - he ended their physical brand from ever being competitive again by developing a BETTER brand that used perimeter finesse and ball movement - this reached a higher level that Detroit's brand couldn't reach..

So Jordan learned how to win (organic brand/chemistry), while Lebron learned to team-hop (talent-based winning.. all-star team strategy).

Sorry, chico.... still doesn't change the fact that the 88 and 89 Pistons and 88 and 89 Bulls had the same amount of players in those All-star games.

Just like LeBron winning the title in 2016 with no other all-stars.

[3ba11]

MJ wasn’t successful until he stacked the deck


People don't realize that Jordan didn't just beat the Piston dynasty - he ended their physical brand from ever being competitive again by developing a BETTER brand that used perimeter finesse and ball movement - this reached a higher level that Detroit's brand couldn't reach..

That's how you win organically - it's accomplished by developing a better brand of ball then your opponents, not by hand-picking the most talent.

So Jordan learned how to win (organic brand/chemistry), while Lebron learned to team-hop (talent-based winning.. all-star team strategy).

[Spurs m8]

Another day of 3ball taking souls

[Axe]

Kobe didn't win a title until he got shaq

[3ba11]

Kobe didn't win a title until he got shaq


Admittedly, Kobe did learn to win alongside a superior producer in 2000 Shaq.

However, similar to 19' Kawhi, Kobe transferred his knowledge of how to win (developing superior chemistry/brand/way of playing than opponents) to a completely different roster from 08-10' (2 for 3).

In addition to knowing how to win, Kobe could defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load for playoffs and Finals of title run), and these 2 things make him #2 all-time behind the ultimate organic winner and defense-overcomer, MJ

[SouBeachTalents]

Admittedly, Kobe did learn to win alongside a superior producer in 2000 Shaq.

However, similar to 19' Kawhi, Kobe transferred his knowledge of how to win (developing superior chemistry/brand/way of playing than opponents) to a completely different roster from 08-10' (2 for 3).

In addition to knowing how to win, Kobe could defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load for playoffs and Finals of title run), and these 2 things make him #2 all-time behind the ultimate organic winner and defense-overcomer, MJ
Kawhi didn’t outscore his 2nd option by 10 ppg in the 2019 Finals

[3ba11]

Kawhi didn’t outscore his 2nd option by 10 ppg in the 2019 Finals


Kawhi ragdolled Giannis while defeating maximum defensive attention (carrying scoring load), which is better than anything Lebron did - Lebron never outplayed anyone of that caliber by a material margin..

And Kawhi had a 9.3 advantage over his sidekick in the Finals with a 40% advantage in usage

Otoh, Kyrie, Wade and AD basically tie Lebron in usage and ppg.. Kyrie led usage in the 17' Finals

[SpaceJam]

Why did MJ lose with Horace Grant who had similar offensive impact to prime Klay Thompson, btw this was MJ's third option




Mo's 2009 and 2010 equals prime Klay offensively based on PER, WS/48, etc...

2009 and 2010 Mo Williams.
PER- 16.7
WS/48- .152

1990 Horace Grant.
PER- 16.6
WS/48- .140

[warriorfan]

Why did MJ lose with Horace Grant who had similar offensive impact to prime Klay Thompson, btw this was MJ's third option



2009 and 2010 Mo Williams.
PER- 16.7
WS/48- .152

1990 Horace Grant.
PER- 16.6
WS/48- .140

2011 Jason Terry
PER - 15.9
WS/48 - .100

[SpaceJam]

2011 Jason Terry
PER - 15.9
WS/48 - .100

Mavs stacked

2015 Andre Iguodala
PER - 15.4
WS/48 - .170

[Baller789]

LBJ wasn’t successful until he stacked the deck
Yes.

[Spurs m8]

Yes.

And then the stacked deck starts getting destroyed

2014 biggest finals margin loss in history...embarrassed in 5

2017 and 2018 - won 1, Lost 8 in finals

Both these times he had to go and restack the deck.

Took a year longer at the Lakers, the young talent wasn't enough (never is), so didn't make the playoffs

Then AD saved him

No AD, no success out West

No mental gymnastics either....straight facts

[La Frescobaldi]

No Pippen? No chip’n

No Pippen? No chip’n

[bullettooth]

https://i.postimg.cc/W4Sysz6b/jabroni-lames.png

[3ba11]

Why did MJ lose with Horace Grant who had similar offensive impact to prime Klay Thompson, btw this was MJ's third option



2009 and 2010 Mo Williams.
PER- 16.7
WS/48- .152

1990 Horace Grant.
PER- 16.6
WS/48- .140


Horace got putbacks/dunks and faced no defensive attention/didn't impact opposing defenses because he wasn't a scoring option like Mo or Klay

Mo and Klay were compared because their similar stats were comparable due to similar ROLE (2nd scoring option)... and also style of play (shooter)

[3ba11]

.
Thread Cliffs


Jordan didn't just beat the Piston dynasty - he ended their physical brand from ever being competitive again by developing a BETTER brand that used perimeter finesse and ball movement.

That's how you win organically - by developing a better brand of ball then your opponents, not by hand-picking the most talent.

Lebron essentially failed at the IQ portion of his career (developing organic chemistry and superior brand of ball), so he opted for the non-IQ route (team-hopping, talent-based winning, all-star team strategy)

So when Shannon Sharpe said today that Lebron might team-hop again and leave the Lakers (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SUfsFjs-L7M&t=04m43s), that's just a continuation of his talent-based winning strategy - he's literally AVOIDING the IQ route (organic chemistry/superior brand development)

Furthermore, since organic winners like the Spurs, Warriors or 90's Bulls develop a superior brand of ball than their peers, the superior brand explains why they win without their best talents (Duncan, Curry, MJ).

However, it's the fundamentally-sound game of MJ/Curry (complete with elite jumpshooting skill) that allows the coach to implement a good brand of ball movement to begin with - otherwise, they would have to play "Curry-ball" or "Jordan-ball" and then start over implementing a good brand when they're out.. Obviously, those types of ball-dominant offenses that revolve around 1 player have weaker teammate fits, strategy, chemistry and team ceilings/Finals records.

[3ba11]

If being #1 all-time in points makes Lebron an all-time scoring great, then being #1 in turnovers makes him an all-time dummy on the court (low IQ)

[r15mohd]

If being #1 all-time in points makes Lebron an all-time scoring great, then being #1 in turnovers makes him an all-time dummy on the court (low IQ)

so low IQ now huh

Malone is 2nd, Stockton 3rd, Thomas is 8th...all players MJ, by your standards, had to over compensate for the Bulls to win titles. what exactly does that say about the Bulls titles if these low IQ players were most of MJs greatest moments?

also, Kobe is 4th all time - your fav player

everytime you think you have a 'gotcha', all you really do is embarrass yourself lol

[3ba11]

so low IQ now huh

Malone is 2nd, Stockton 3rd, Thomas is 8th...all players MJ, by your standards, had to over compensate for the Bulls to win titles. what exactly does that say about the Bulls titles if these low IQ players were most of MJs greatest moments?

also, Kobe is 4th all time - your fav player

everytime you think you have a 'gotcha', all you really do is embarrass yourself lol


But who's #1?

Who's the king of turnovers?

There can only be one and his name is LeBron "turnover machine" James.

Did you know that he averaged 11.5 turnovers per 48 minutes of clutch time (last 5 within 5) in the 2009 ECF?... And people wonder why he lost lol... this was in addition to the massive defensive choke by choosing to guard a spot-up shooter in Lee rather than provide the size/agility needed for Hedo/Lewis.. And he was demolished in the critical Game 4 OT by Dwight.. so there's a lot of reasons why Lebron couldn't beat a top 5 SRS team with poor scoring and efficiency from his sidekick like MJ routinely did.

[r15mohd]

But who's #1?

Who's the king of turnovers?

There can only be one and his name is LeBron "turnover machine" James.

Did you know that he averaged 11.5 turnovers per 48 minutes of clutch time (last 5 within 5) in the 2009 ECF?... And people wonder why he lost lol... this was in addition to the massive defensive choke by choosing to guard a spot-up shooter in Lee rather than provide the size/agility needed for Hedo/Lewis.. And he was demolished in the critical Game 4 OT by Dwight.. so there's a lot of reasons why Lebron couldn't beat a top 5 SRS team with poor scoring and efficiency from his sidekick like MJ routinely did.

you can back pedal it all you need...however if he is truly Lebron 'turnover machine' James for being #1 in turnovers, just be sure you hold that same energy and call him Lebron 'scoring machine' James when #1 in points too :D

please include King of Scoring too lol

[Phoenix]

If being #1 all-time in points makes Lebron an all-time scoring great, then being #1 in turnovers makes him an all-time dummy on the court (low IQ)

So Kobe is the 5th all-time dumbest since he's #5 in turnovers?

[Full Court]

.
1) Lebron plays all 5 positions



* he can't play the off-guard position, aka running off screens, etc

* he can't defend as a center and has never posted up for most of his field goals in any game, aka he's never played center... i.e. the announcer says he's starting at center, but Lebron plays his normal PG role after tip-off (aka it's BS)


3) Lebron can carry bad teams


* Iverson, Kidd, Dwight and 07' Lebron won the East with 1-star teams, yet Lebron failed to win it with homecourt in 09' or 10' - he needed super-teams in a conference that 1-star teams were winning to produce the "Finals streak", and otherwise is lottery out West without AD being the "jordan" statistical leader (2020 playoff scoring champ).

* Failed to carry the East all-star center to the 05' Playoffs and needed to add a 22/5/5 all-defender and future COY to make 06' Playoffs.

* He had a bummy, 45-win team until Mo's spacing effect (prime-Klay offense) gave him a 66-win league favorite.


2) Lebron is a high IQ player


* He simply amasses enough talent to win (all-star team strategy) and never won via organic chemistry, superior strategy, or brand of ball.

* Lebron has many losses to superior brand of ball despite having a favorite or super-team each time (09', 10', 11', 14', 17').

* He fields low-assist teams that have inferior team offense, strategy and brand than the teams that beat him.. The inferior strategy necessitates more supporting talent and makes Lebron's teams the neediest in NBA history - the story for 20 years is how his teams need more help.

* He never evolved out of ball-dominant offenses that revolve around him, so he never learned to elevate teammates beyond spot-up roles.. Since he can't elevate teammates, he never learned how to win (organic chemistry) and had to team-hop (talent-based winning).

* He starts at forward but then becomes a 2nd point guard on the floor (2nd player with a point guard hold-time).. These 2 point guard lineups give teammates less hold-time and assists than they get in traditional 1 point guard lineups, so the TEAM has low assists and a brand that struggles on the championship level.

* Lebron is built like Karl Malone but dribbles like Isiah - people conflate this physical talent with being a high IQ player - but his frontcourt ball-dominance and resulting low-assist teams proves otherwise... People also assume he could play like Karl Malone - Lebron can't play like Karl, who scored nearly 40k points AS THE ROLL MAN and off-ball or post-up.. That's the precise opposite of Lebron's skillset.

* Arguably no one lost with good teams more... He turned preseason favorites into Finals underdog or loser for 6 straight years (11-16') - that obviously isn't smart or high IQ but we already know that frontcourt ball-dominance underachieves a team's talent.

Yes, I agree. All three of these narratives are nonsense.

But why in the world did you put 3 before 2???

:crazysam:

[Ne 1]

You act like he didn't play that off ball role in Miami or something lol

[3ba11]

You act like he didn't play that off ball role in Miami or something lol


He didn't

They added a wrinkle here and there to allow Lebron to give different looks but he still had a point guard hold-time (nba-tracked time of possession) - this abnormal ball-dominance for his position created an abnormally ball-dominant team, weak fit with Wade, and ultimately a lower team ceiling/Finals record than expected

Lebron showed that he never figured out elite jumpshooting skill and those top brands of ball by getting his doors blown off by the Spurs.. He was looking for open looks and efficiency hunting and it got it's doors blown off