Middleton: 19.6 ppg 5.6 rpg 5.2 apg vs Siakam: 21 ppg 8.5 rpg 5.1 apg. THE DISRESPECT

[k0kakw0rld]

Middleton is an All Star over Siakam how? :oldlol::roll::lol

[3ba11]

Winning spotlight

The same way Wiggins, Klay and Pippen got media accolades

The media is a bunch of Joe the Plumbers with journalism degrees - they know exactly nothing and get paid for being comfortable in front of the camera, not for their knowledge

Carry on

[GrayGoat]

Siakam isn’t even better than Jaylen Brown

[John_Connor]

Middleton a reigning nba championship sidekick that carried the bucks to the finals without giannis. he deserves some respect. siakam fell apart when kawhi left. he can't step into the lead dog role like Middleton can. that's why vanvleet is going and siakam isnt

[3ba11]

Middleton a reigning nba championship sidekick





Siakam would've won alongside Giannis too so your point that Middleton is in the winning spotlight ISN'T a viable point

And Siakam was the winning sidekick in 2019

[ShawkFactory]

Middleton is a better player..

Posting PPG, RPG, and APG doesn't really mean much. Especially since they're pretty close in those areas..

[3ba11]

Middleton is a better player..

Posting PPG, RPG, and APG doesn't really mean much. Especially since they're pretty close in those areas..


But Siakam was better in 2019 because he was the winning sidekick, right?

You lapdogs are ridiculously swayed by the winning spotlight... :facepalm:

Why didn't you major in journalism?.. :yaohappy:

[ShawkFactory]

But Siakam was better in 2019 because he was the winning sidekick, right?

You lapdogs are ridiculously swayed by the winning spotlight... :facepalm:

Why didn't you major in journalism?.. :yaohappy:

Talking to the white wall again?

[red1]

east comp was stiff this year.


I think he's played like an allstar this year zero doubt. then again there are guys like lamelo and miles bridges that got left off as well who are playing great basketball.


tough year.

[3ba11]

Talking to the white wall again?


John Connor's first post itt conceded that he thinks in terms of winning spotlight

Middleton is better because he coattailed a ring - that's what Connor said in the first sentence of his initial post

This is similar to the first sentence of a previous Hubert Davis post that you made, where you conceded that any contact is a foul if the shooter hasn't come down yet

So you guys typically reveal yourself in the first sentence of your posts.. Kudos to you for that.. I guess

[ShawkFactory]

You first post itt conceded that you think in terms of winning spotlight

Middleton is better because he coattailed a ring - that's what you said in the first sentence of your initial post

This is similar to the first sentence of a previous Hubert Davis post, where you conceded that any contact is a foul if the shooter hasn't come down yet

So you typically reveal yourself in the first sentence of your posts.. Kudos to you for that.. I guess

Is it?

[3ba11]

Is it?


I edited that post . It was John Connor's post that revealed himself in the first sentence

This is similar to the first sentence of a Hubert Davis post that you made previously, where you conceded that any contact is a foul if the shooter hasn't come down yet

So you guys typically reveal yourself in the first sentence of your posts.. Kudos to you for that.. I guess

[expansionera]

Winning spotlight

The same way Wiggins, Klay and Pippen got media accolades

The media is a bunch of Joe the Plumbers with journalism degrees - they know exactly nothing and get paid for being comfortable in front of the camera, not for their knowledge

Carry on

Why did Jordan get media accolades while going sub .500 then?

[ShawkFactory]

I edited that post . It was John Connor's post that revealed himself in the first sentence

This is similar to the first sentence of a Hubert Davis post that you made previously, where you conceded that any contact is a foul if the shooter hasn't come down yet

So you guys typically reveal yourself in the first sentence of your posts.. Kudos to you for that.. I guess

Well why are you addressing me with something that should be directed at someone else?

Separate people can make separate arguments.

[3ba11]

Well why are you addressing me with something that should be directed at someone else?

Separate people can make separate arguments.


Your posting seemed similar so I thought y'all were the same at first. Only afterwards did I realize that I was responding to Connor and not you

The point remains - Middleton is good, but this tier of player are all "pippen's" that average about 17-20 and are largely interchangeable

The better player between pippen's like Middleton, Siakam, Marion or Iggy will change each year depending on circumstances - they'll take turns having the better year because they're all close and on the same "pippen" tier

[3ba11]

Why did Jordan get media accolades while going sub .500 then?


He actually dominated

These guys are barely getting 20/5 - they're just "pippens"

[expansionera]

He actually dominated

These guys are barely getting 20/5 - they're just "pippens"

No one dominates in a first round exit

[Jasper]

not even sure why this thread was created.
Middleton is 2nd option with numbers equal to the primary scorer for Toronto.

If Middleton was primary scorer for Toronto he would be averaging 30.

/

[Manny98]

Jarrett Allen should have got in over both

[NBAGOAT]

efficiency matters and middleton is just a better offensive player even with worse numbers. Not saying he should've made it since jrue's the 2nd best player on that team this year. Lamelo's been very good

[3ba11]

Middleton benefits from the winning spotlight just like Wiggins or Draymond this year, or like Klay and Pippen in years past.

For example, Draymond wasn't considered for all-star when the Warriors were rebuilding the last couple years, but now that Curry has the team winning again, Dray's 8/8/7 stats are suddenly "all-star"

[NBAGOAT]

Middleton benefits from the winning spotlight just like Wiggins or Draymond this year, or like Klay and Pippen in years past.

For example, Draymond wasn't considered for all-star when the Warriors were rebuilding the last couple years, but now that Curry has the team winning again, Dray's 8/8/7 stats are suddenly "all-star"

draymond did not care and gave reduced effort on defense the last few years besides last year. This year he's a a clear favorite for dpoy. If it was just because of curry, the team would've won a lot of games last year when curry was better.

[3ba11]

draymond did not care and gave reduced effort on defense the last few years besides last year. This year he's a a clear favorite for dpoy. If it was just because of curry, the team would've won a lot of games last year when curry was better.


Curry was developing Poole, Wiggins and others

Now that everyone is elevated, the Warriors are winning again

Dray has nothing to do with it.. Saying that he simply "wasn't trying" in previous seasons doesn't hold water

[SouBeachTalents]

Curry was developing Poole, Wiggins and others

Now that everyone is elevated, the Warriors are winning again

Dray has nothing to do with it.. Saying that he simply "wasn't trying" in previous seasons doesn't hold water
You're retarded

[3ba11]

You're retarded


You take everything so literally

Dray has little to do with it - not worth all-star gtfo

If Poole and Wiggins weren't elevated, the Warriors would be a weak team again and you wouldn't be saying shit about Dray - you'd be lying and saying he "wasn't trying" lol

[SouBeachTalents]

You take everything so literally

Dray has little to do with it - not worth all-star gtfo

If Poole and Wiggins weren't elevated, the Warriors would be a weak team again and you wouldn't be saying shit about Dray - you'd be lying and saying he "wasn't trying" lol
I honestly don't give a fck about who makes the all-star game, it blows my mind we always make such a big fuss about who gets to play in a meaningless exhibition game that's forgotten about the second it ends.

But claiming Dray has "nothing" to do with the Warriors success is indeed retarded. He plays an inarguably vital role.

[3ba11]

I honestly don't give a fck about who makes the all-star game, it blows my mind we always make such a big fuss about who gets to play in a meaningless exhibition game that's forgotten about the second it ends.

But claiming Dray has "nothing" to do with the Warriors success is indeed retarded. He plays an inarguably vital role.


You're autistic and retarded for taking everything literally

Dray wasn't shit last year but now his 8/8/7 is all-star

The facts support my narrative

[NBAGOAT]

You're autistic and retarded for taking everything literally

Dray wasn't shit last year but now his 8/8/7 is all-star

The facts support my narrative

the fact is draymond was barely a positive defender in 2020 when the warriors were tanking, he was good but not prime draymond last year. This year he leads the league in EPM and is a clear favorite for DPOY, his defensive impact is close to his prime and any warriors fans who watches can confirm he's giving full effort again. The warriors are an all time great defense this year, that side of the ball does not have much to do with Curry.

The only one on this thread who's retarded is you thinking draymond's statline matters at all. I dont want to hate on curry too much but if he's so good at elevating what happened last year? wiggins is a really good starter now but was also good last year. Poole got good because he finally got playing time. Finally, even curry couldnt help wiseman being the worst player in the league(low key a huge change for the warriors)

[3ba11]

the fact is draymond was barely a positive defender in 2020 when the warriors were tanking, he was good but not prime draymond last year. This year he leads the league in EPM and is a clear favorite for DPOY, his defensive impact is close to his prime and any warriors fans who watches can confirm he's giving full effort again. The warriors are an all time great defense this year, that side of the ball does not have much to do with Curry.

The only one on this thread who's retarded is you thinking draymond's statline matters at all. I dont want to hate on curry too much but if he's so good at elevating what happened last year? wiggins is a really good starter now but was also good last year. Poole got good because he finally got playing time. Finally, even curry couldnt help wiseman being the worst player in the league(low key a huge change for the warriors)


In 2021 (last year), the Warriors were top 5 in defense but no one said shit about Draymond because the Warriors' horrible offense made them uncompetitive.

Now that their offense is viable, they're competitive, and that has nothing to do with Draymond - it's all about the elevation of Wiggins, Poole and others

So you guys are just lying about Draymond and don't understand the defensive stats that you cite.. You guys were conned by his personality.

[ShawkFactory]

In 2021 (last year), the Warriors were top 5 in defense but no one said shit about Draymond because the Warriors' horrible offense made them uncompetitive.

Now that their offense is viable, they're competitive, and that has nothing to do with Draymond - it's all about the elevation of Wiggins, Poole and others

So you guys are just lying about Draymond and don't understand the defensive stats that you cite.. You guys were conned by his personality.

The Warriors ORTG last year was 110.5. This year it's 111.7.

The defensive rating has dropped from 109.4 to 103.5.

Defensive is the reason they're winning. They're barely a top 10 offense.

[NBAGOAT]

In 2021 (last year), the Warriors were top 5 in defense but no one said shit about Draymond because the Warriors' horrible offense made them uncompetitive.

Now that their offense is viable, they're competitive, and that has nothing to do with Draymond - it's all about the elevation of Wiggins, Poole and others

So you guys are just lying about Draymond and don't understand the defensive stats that you cite.. You guys were conned by his personality.

well he still got some consideration for DPOY though gobert was a clear favorite. As Shawk said they went from top 5 to clearly the best defense this year. It might not show in the ranking change but the jump they made was bigger than the typical jump from average defense to top 5.

There's nothing to understand for those defensive stats, epm is a simple impact stat. Draymond went from an all defense level defender last year to best defender in the league and he has a sizable edge over anyone besides his own teammate Payton who deserves a lot of credit but doesnt play starter minutes. Sort this list by dEPM and you'll see https://dunksandthrees.com/epm.

Again you also dont watch warriors games so you have no basis to stand on. Tbf I havent watched to many either but I read what Warriors fans say about their team at least. It's consensus that draymond's effort level has a huge effect on his impact.

[3ba11]

well he still got some consideration for DPOY though gobert was a clear favorite. As Shawk said they went from top 5 to clearly the best defense this year. It might not show in the ranking change but the jump they made was bigger than the typical jump from average defense to top 5.

There's nothing to understand for those defensive stats, epm is a simple impact stat. Draymond went from an all defense level defender last year to best defender in the league and he has a sizable edge over anyone besides his own teammate Payton who deserves a lot of credit but doesnt play starter minutes. Sort this list by dEPM and you'll see https://dunksandthrees.com/epm.

Again you also dont watch warriors games so you have no basis to stand on. Tbf I havent watched to many either but I read what Warriors fans say about their team at least. It's consensus that draymond's effort level has a huge effect on his impact.


Warriors were top 5 defensively last year, so your defensive argument holds no water.

The Warriors' offense was simply too horrible last year to be competitive, so Draymond wasn't boosted by the winning spotlight like he is this year now that the Warriors' offense is viable and winning..

Draymond's trash production suddenly looks "all-star" in the winning spotlight.. The winning spotlight makes Dray an all-star, whereas real all-stars are all-stars regardless of winning.

Carry on the delusion and the fraud.. Conned by a personality.. it's sad

[NBAGOAT]

Warriors were top 5 defensively last year, so your defensive argument holds no water.

The Warriors' offense was simply too horrible last year to be competitive, so Draymond wasn't boosted by the winning spotlight like he is this year now that the Warriors' offense is viable and winning..

Draymond's trash production suddenly looks "all-star" in the winning spotlight.. The winning spotlight makes Dray an all-star, whereas real all-stars are all-stars regardless of winning.

Carry on the delusion and the fraud.. Conned by a personality.. it's sad

I'll quote Shawk directly since you have no good retort(why you ignored his message)

The Warriors ORTG last year was 110.5. This year it's 111.7.

The defensive rating has dropped from 109.4 to 103.5.

[3ba11]

I'll quote Shawk directly since you have no good retort(why you ignored his message)

The Warriors ORTG last year was 110.5. This year it's 111.7.

The defensive rating has dropped from 109.4 to 103.5.


The whole league's DRTG dropped, so the Warriors' defense is similar to last year's compared to league average, as evidenced by their similar ranking.

Ditto the offense - the Warriors ORTG increased despite league ORTG decreasing - so the Warriors are doing far better relative to the league than they did last year, as evidenced by their drastic improvement in ranking.

Indeed, the stats show that you were conned by a personality.. don't feel too bad.. it happens to all of us

[ShawkFactory]

The whole league's DRTG dropped, so the Warriors' defense is similar to last year's compared to league average, as evidenced by their similar ranking.

Ditto the offense - the Warriors ORTG increased despite league ORTG decreasing - so the Warriors are doing far better relative to the league than they did last year, as evidenced by their drastic improvement in ranking.

Indeed, the stats show that you were conned by a personality.. don't feel too bad.. it happens to all of us

No it's not. They're lapping the field.

Is someone is a similar situation as a scorer if they're 5th at 24 a game and the leader is at 28 and then the next year they're first at 34 a game and second is at 29?

Your logic says yes. But you're trying to conn people with the personality. Your specialty.

[3ba11]

No it's not. They're lapping the field.

Is someone is a similar situation as a scorer if they're 5th at 24 a game and the leader is at 28 and then the next year they're first at 34 a game and second is at 29?

Your logic says yes. But you're trying to conn people with the personality. Your specialty.


They aren't lapping the field.. They're similar to last year relative to the league and it's their offense that took the biggest leap by far.

And their improved offense affects their defense because their defense is facing opponents that are more worn from defending the Warriors' superior offense this year..

The Warriors' offense makes them more equipped to win the battle of attrition, while their defense remained largely unchanged, or if anything, helped by their superior offense.

[NBAGOAT]

The whole league's DRTG dropped, so the Warriors' defense is similar to last year's compared to league average, as evidenced by their similar ranking.

Ditto the offense - the Warriors ORTG increased despite league ORTG decreasing - so the Warriors are doing far better relative to the league than they did last year, as evidenced by their drastic improvement in ranking.

Indeed, the stats show that you were conned by a personality.. don't feel too bad.. it happens to all of us

you're right partially. However the difference is not enough to explain those differences. I'll use basketball reference since nba.com not easy to find. The average rtg last year was 112.3 it's 110.4 this year. Warriors were 112.1 103.7 this year 111.1 110.1 last year

2021 Warriors -1.2 rOrtg + 2.2 rDrtg
2022 Warriors +1.7 rOrtg +6.7 rDrtg

I hate how you purposely dont do research and force the other guy to do research. Still I hope you can do same basic math here. The Warriors defense improved more, it's a fact. You're either proven wrong about something you didnt know and should never use this argument again or were just lying before(more likely the 2nd).

[ShawkFactory]

They aren't lapping the field.. They're similar to last year relative to the league and it's their offense that took the biggest leap by far.

And their improved offense affects their defense because their defense is facing opponents that are more worn from defending the Warriors' superior offense this year..

The Warriors' offense makes them more equipped to win the battle of attrition, while their defense remained largely unchanged, or if anything, helped by their superior offense.

For much of the year their DTRG was 4+ points higher than second place. That right now is the different between 2nd and 16th :lol

They’ve come slightly back to earth recently. Hence why they have been quite as dominant.

[3ba11]

you're right partially. However the difference is not enough to explain those differences. I'll use basketball reference since nba.com not easy to find. The average rtg last year was 112.3 it's 110.4 this year. Warriors were 112.1 103.7 this year 111.1 110.1 last year

2021 Warriors -1.2 rOrtg + 2.2 rDrtg
2022 Warriors +1.7 rOrtg +6.7 rDrtg

I hate how you purposely dont do research and force the other guy to do research. Still I hope you can do same basic math here. The Warriors defense improved more, it's a fact. You're either proven wrong about something you didnt know and should never use this argument again or were just lying before(more likely the 2nd).


The rule changes are the DPOY

which makes Draymond even less of a factor driving the win increase and more of a fraud

and it makes sense that the most jumpshooting team in the league would be hurt the least by rule changes affecting shooting fouls.. everyone else's ORTG suffers more, so the Warriors DRTG is boosted the most

Furthermore, the Warriors' defense isn't better this year because last year they faced fresh opponents, whereas less defense is required this year because opponents worn down from defending the Warriors' improved offense.

[ShawkFactory]

you're right partially. However the difference is not enough to explain those differences. I'll use basketball reference since nba.com not easy to find. The average rtg last year was 112.3 it's 110.4 this year. Warriors were 112.1 103.7 this year 111.1 110.1 last year

2021 Warriors -1.2 rOrtg + 2.2 rDrtg
2022 Warriors +1.7 rOrtg +6.7 rDrtg

I hate how you purposely dont do research and force the other guy to do research. Still I hope you can do same basic math here. The Warriors defense improved more, it's a fact. You're either proven wrong about something you didnt know and should never use this argument again or were just lying before(more likely the 2nd).

It amuses him that the other person has to spend even a second of time to prove him wrong. He knows he’s full of shit most of the time.

[3ba11]

It amuses him that the other person has to spend even a second of time to prove him wrong. He knows he’s full of shit most of the time.


You guys just don't understand the game.. see my last post..

it's the Warriors offense that improved the most, while the defense was boosted by rule changes that benefit the Warriors the most... and it was also boosted by facing opponents that are more worn out than last year from defending the Warriors' improved offense.

Also, going from a bad offense to good offense is a greater improvement from going from elite to more elite defensively.. going from far below league-average on offense to well-above is more impactful than going from elite to more elite defensively (in large part due to the rule changes and improved offense that wins the attrition battle better)

carry on in ignorance though and being conned by personalities.

[ShawkFactory]

You guys just don't understand the game.. see my last post..

it's the Warriors offense that improved the most, while the defense was boosted by rule changes that benefit the Warriors the most... and it was also boosted by facing opponents that are more worn out than last year from defending the Warriors' improved offense.

Also, going from a bad offense to good offense is a greater improvement from going from elite to more elite defensively.. going from far below league-average on offense to well-above is more impactful than going from elite to more elite defensively (in large part due to the rule changes and improved offense that wins the attrition battle better)

carry on in ignorance though and being conned by personalities.

And OUR point is that this is a factually incorrect statement. Because it is.

[3ba11]

And OUR point is that this is a factually incorrect statement. Because it is.


Going from bad to good is more improvement than going from elite to more elite, especially when the offensive improvement and rule changes (that benefit the Warriors the most) drove the defensive improvement.

Carry on though.. I made the case and you can't refute it except to re-post the same numbers that show I'm right

Draymond is only all-star caliber when the Warriors are winning, while REAL all-stars are all-stars regardless... I hate players that are inflated by the winning spotlight and Draymond among the biggest examples of this ever

[ShawkFactory]

Going from bad to good is more improvement than going from elite to more elite, especially when the offensive improvement and rule changes (that benefit the Warriors the most) drove the defensive improvement.

Carry on though.. I made the case and you can't refute it except to re-post the same numbers that show I'm right

Relative to league average the defense has improved far more dramatically than the offense.

This was already pointed out to you.

[3ba11]

Relative to league average the defense has improved far more dramatically than the offense.

This was already pointed out to you.


It was pointed out to you that the league rules improved the Warriors' defense more than any other team and the Warriors' improved offense also drove the defensive improvement, along with other teammates improving defensively as well.

So Draymond is hardly worthy of all-star or any of the credit you gave him.. Draymond is only all-star when the Warriors are winning, while REAL all-stars are all-stars regardless... I hate players that are inflated by the winning spotlight and Draymond among the biggest examples of this ever.. The Warriors had a top defense last year and no one thought for a NANO second to make Dray an all-star.

[ShawkFactory]

It was pointed out to you that the league rules improved the Warriors' defense more than any other team and the Warriors' improved offense also drove the defensive improvement, along with other teams mates improving defensively as well.

So Draymond is hardly worthy of all-star or any of the credit you gave him.. Draymond is only all-star when the Warriors are winning, while REAL all-stars are all-stars regardless... I hate players that are inflated by the winning spotlight and Draymond among the biggest examples of this ever.. The Warriors had a top defense last year and no one thought for a NANO second to make Dray an all-star.

How do you figure that?

But yes, I’m aware that other players on the Warriors have improved defensively, particularly Wiggins. Wonder who is responsible for that...*hint: Wiggins will tell you*

[3ba11]

How do you figure that?

But yes, I’m aware that other players on the Warriors have improved defensively, particularly Wiggins. Wonder who is responsible for that...*hint: Wiggins will tell you*


Rule changes aimed at reducing shooting fouls will hurt jumpshooting teams the least.. So every other team's offense is down more than the Warriors, hence the Warriors with the improvement in DRTG relative to others... And again, the Warriors' improved offense also plays into this, along with the defensive improvement of teammates like Wiggins.

So again, Draymond is hardly worthy of all-star or any of the credit you gave him.. Draymond is only all-star when the Warriors are winning, while REAL all-stars are all-stars regardless... I hate players that are inflated by the winning spotlight and Draymond among the biggest examples of this ever.. The Warriors had a top defense last year and no one thought for a NANO second to make Dray an all-star.

[ShawkFactory]

Rule changes aimed at reducing shooting fouls will hurt jumpshooting teams the least.. So every other team's offense is down more than the Warriors, hence the Warriors with the improvement in DRTG relative to others... And again, the Warriors' improved offense also plays into this, along with the defensive improvement of teammates like Wiggins.

So again, Draymond is hardly worthy of all-star or any of the credit you gave him.. Draymond is only all-star when the Warriors are winning, while REAL all-stars are all-stars regardless... I hate players that are inflated by the winning spotlight and Draymond among the biggest examples of this ever.. The Warriors had a top defense last year and no one thought for a NANO second to make Dray an all-star.

No, the rule change was aimed at limiting jumpshooters from egregiously drawing fouls on what are deemed as non-basketball plays. Things that Harden, Trae, etc. spammed. In particular, this was targeted at these guys drawing shooting fouls behind the 3pt line.

This is why guys who were taking the most threes (Curry, Lillard, Harden, Luka among others) are seeing such a dip in efficiency. Trae is an anomaly but he's added a lot of other elements to his game, on top of seemingly being just a better shooter overall.

So you're wrong. It's actually like...the opposite of what you think.

[Jasper]

If OP would finish up on his stat line you would see :

Toronto minutes played 8 minutes more than Milwaukee's forward.:banghead::banghead::hammerhead:

thread should never of been created dumb ass

[ShawkFactory]

If OP would finish up on his stat line you would see :

Toronto minutes played 8 minutes more than Milwaukee's forward.:banghead::banghead::hammerhead:

thread should never of been created dumb ass
Yea the entire thing is dumb