AD almost did this last night

[3ba11]

https://i.makeagif.com/media/2-04-2022/ZBZf4k.gif

https://i.makeagif.com/media/2-04-2022/gCTnwM.gif


After the game, Lebron was thrilled that AD failed, but kudos to AD for staying in the moment - you could tell that he legitimately tried to make the shot rather than just go through the motions (a problem for many players on big shots).

Indeed, the full court, pure scoring game-winners are the best and MJ has tons

Btw, that was Game 3 of the 91' Finals, where Pippen choked the game away with his dumb AND1 foul on Vlade before MJ's shot.. It's just another attempt by Pippen to sabatoge MJ - this particular attempt failed but many others succeeded (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?500651-The-Collection-of-Pippen-s-Biggest-In-Game-Chokes-to-Lose-Games-Thread)

[GrayGoat]

This is really a thread about LeBron

[SouBeachTalents]

Pippen sucked in the '91 Finals


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuEg_5G_7gc


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBXeqtmJlmU

If the Bulls had Mo Williams instead they would've swept the series.

[3ba11]

This is really a thread about LeBron


The thread could go any direction - Lebron, AD, MJ, Pippen.

Here - I'll take it the Pippen route for a second:

HORRY WON 7 RINGS BY HITTING 100 BIG SHOTS - HOW MANY DID PIPPEN HIT TO WIN 6?

Horry's spacing effect was underused in the 90's, so his stats were depressed, but his peak capability proved superior to Pippen's - Pippen is the only guy that failed to reach Horry-level in the Finals over a meaningful sample (Pippen is 0/6 in reaching Horry's gamescore from the 95' Finals of 19.0)... This isn't bullshit because Horry agrees with me (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZpVlMVYr-A&t=24s).

[ShawkFactory]

The thread could go any direction - Lebron, AD, MJ, Pippen.

Here - I'll take it the Pippen route for a second:

HORRY WON 7 RINGS BY HITTING 100 BIG SHOTS - HOW MANY DID PIPPEN HIT TO WIN 6?

Horry's spacing effect was underused in the 90's, so his stats were depressed, but his peak capability proved superior to Pippen's - Pippen is the only guy that failed to reach Horry-level in the Finals over a meaningful sample (Pippen is 0/6 in reaching Horry's gamescore from the 95' Finals of 19.0)... This isn't bullshit because Horry agrees with me (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZpVlMVYr-A&t=24s).

How about trying to make a thread that doesn't go in the direction of Lebron, MJ, or Pippen. I literally don't know that you've ever done that. And you've had to have made close to 2k threads at this point.

[3ba11]

Useless videos of Pippen's spot-duty on Magic and trash stats compared to MJ (carried)





Pippen sucked in the 91' Finals because Magic is normally defended by small forwards, so MJ did Pippen's job for him by being the primary defender on Magic.

Pippen only guarded Magic in the Game 2 blowout and the 2nd/3rd quarters of Game 3.. Otherwise, MJ guarded Magic for all of Games 1, 4, 5, and the critical 4th quarter/OT that swung the series in Game 3..

So Jordan carried Pippen on both ends just like the 92' Finals and 96' Finals where he guarded Drexler and Payton.. So you simply lie about Pippen and the media misreported Pippen's defense on Magic for the last 30 years (fake news)





If the Bulls had Mo Williams instead they would've swept the series.





Mo Williams didn't join a good team in 2008..

He joined a bummy, 45-win loser that his spacing effect (prime Klay offense) turned into the league favorite

Mo taught us that elite shooting is the key that unlocks Lebron-ball into a competitive offense.. Ever since Mo, we know that Lebron "needs shooters".

Of course, 09' Mo had better scoring, efficiency, PER, BPM, WS/48, and VORP than 90' Pippen.. So 09' Lebron had a better team on both sides of the ball than 90' Jordan, yet Jordan beat him to titles - Jordan won the next year in 91', while Lebron lost in 10' despite adding Jamison/Shaq to the league favorite.. Then he lost again with a super-team in 11'.

[1987_Lakers]

Don't you get tired of this shit?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lQ_MjU4QHw

[3ba11]

How about trying to make a thread that doesn't go in the direction of Lebron, MJ, or Pippen. I literally don't know that you've ever done that. And you've had to have made close to 2k threads at this point.


I've made plenty of non-MJ threads but you guys lack the knowledge to engage me on them.

See the navigation efficiency thread..

And there's a method to all this "madness"... You'll see

[red1]

1a 1b

lebron and mike




toss-up.

[ShawkFactory]

I've made plenty of non-MJ threads but you guys lack the knowledge to engage me on them.

See the navigation efficiency thread..

And there's a method to all this "madness"... You'll see

Pippen and Lebron threads don't count.

[SouBeachTalents]

I've made plenty of non-MJ threads but you guys lack the knowledge to engage me on them.

See the navigation efficiency thread..

And there's a method to all this "madness"... You'll see
That's not what he said fakkit :lol He said LeBron/Jordan/Pippen and, sadly, he's probably right.

[3ba11]

That's not what he said fakkit :lol He said LeBron/Jordan/Pippen and, sadly, he's probably right.


I make Curry threads

Or Klay/Hornacek threads

Or general basketball threads about navigation efficiency or NBA rule changes

Or threads on race - how slavery is the cause for the lower socioeconomic condition of African-Americans.. Or how the phone records in the Zimmerman case proved that he lied about the initial encounter

And many more ..

So I don't know what you're talking about... :lol:

[bison]

That's why today's players need a pull up jumper in their arsenal. I don't think modern players learn it because it rarely has application in the course of today's spaced out game, but in crunch time it is absolutely necessary. this is why the most clutch players in the league right now are kuzma, KD, YDK and derozan

[ShawkFactory]

I make Curry threads

Or Klay/Hornacek threads

Or general basketball threads about navigation efficiency or NBA rule changes

Or threads on race - how slavery is the cause for the lower socioeconomic condition of African-Americans.. Or how the phone records in the Zimmerman case proved that he lied about the initial encounter

And many more ..

So I don't know what you're talking about... :lol:

All of these "go in the direction" of Jordan, Pippen, or Lebron.

[FultzNationRISE]

The thread could go any direction - Lebron, AD, MJ, Pippen.

Here - I'll take it the Pippen route for a second:




Can you explain why Madonna also took it the Pippen route??

[3ba11]

.
There's never been a bigger statistical gap between 1st and 2nd option than MJ-Pippen

They weren't a "duo" any more than Hakeem/Horry or Dirk/Terry



PLAYOFFS


94' Hakeem... 27.7 PER.... 8.5 BPM... 2.6 VORP... 0.208 WS/48... 28.9 ppg
94' Horry........ 16.7 PER.... 5.0 BPM... 1.4 VORP... 0.152 WS/48... 11.7 ppg
GAP.................. 11.0...........3.5........... 1.2............ 0.056............. 17.2

93' Jordan...... 30.1 PER... 11.6 BPM... 2.9 VORP... 0.270 WS/48... 35.1 ppg
93' Pippen...... 16.9 PER..... 2.0 BPM... 0.8 VORP... 0.083 WS/48... 20.1 ppg
GAP.................. 13.2........... 9.6........... 2.1............ 0.187............ 15.0

11' Dirk.......... 25.2 PER... 5.5 BPM... 1.6 VORP... 0.210 WS/48... 27.7 ppg
11' Terry......... 20.3 PER... 4.6 BPM... 1.1 VORP... 0.179 WS/48... 17.5 ppg
GAP................... 4.9............1.1........... 0.5............ 0.031............ 10.2

92' Jordan...... 27.2 PER.... 9.9 BPM... 2.8 VORP... 0.216 WS/48... 34.5 ppg
92' Pippen...... 20.1 PER.... 6.6 BPM... 2.0 VORP... 0.168 WS/48... 19.5 ppg
GAP.................. 7.1............ 3.3............ 0.8............ 0.048............ 15.0

91' Jordan...... 32.0 PER... 14.6 BPM... 2.9 VORP... 0.333 WS/48... 31.1 ppg
91' Pippen...... 22.0 PER..... 6.5 BPM... 1.5 VORP... 0.197 WS/48... 21.6 ppg
GAP.................. 10.0........... 8.1........... 1.4............ 0.136............ 9.5

96' Jordan...... 26.7 PER... 10.7 BPM... 2.4 VORP.. 0.317 WS/48... 30.7 ppg
96' Pippen...... 19.4 PER..... 7.8 BPM... 1.8 VORP.. 0.195 WS/48... 16.9 ppg
GAP................... 7.3........... 2.9............ 0.6............ 0.122........... 13.8

97' Jordan...... 27.1 PER.... 9.9 BPM... 2.4 VORP... 0.235 WS/48... 31.1 ppg
97' Pippen...... 18.1 PER.... 5.1 BPM... 1.4 VORP... 0.145 WS/48... 19.2 ppg
GAP.................. 9.1........... 4.8............ 1.0............ 0.090........... 11.9

98' Jordan...... 28.1 PER.... 9.0 BPM... 2.4 VORP... 0.265 WS/48... 32.4 ppg
98' Pippen...... 19.4 PER.... 5.6 BPM... 1.6 VORP... 0.166 WS/48... 16.8 ppg
GAP.................. 8.7........... 3.4............ 0.8............ 0.095............ 16.4

[Phoenix]

Pippen

Ok.

[SouBeachTalents]

Ok.
'89 Pippen

[Wally450]

I've made plenty of non-MJ threads but you guys lack the knowledge to engage me on them.

See the navigation efficiency thread..

And there's a method to all this "madness"... You'll see

Start a thread about this years Celtics, you won't do it.

[GrayGoat]

Start a thread about this years Celtics, you won't do it.

Brown, smart, Schroder are all better than 89 Pippen. So Tatum has no excuse to underachieve

[3ba11]

Start a thread about this years Celtics, you won't do it.


I got you right now.

Gimme about 15 min

[ShawkFactory]

Start a thread about this years Celtics, you won't do it.

You forgot to add the disclaimer that it can't actually be about Lebron, Pippen, or MJ.

So it will be.

[expansionera]

How about trying to make a thread that doesn't go in the direction of Lebron, MJ, or Pippen. I literally don't know that you've ever done that. And you've had to have made close to 2k threads at this point.

2016 gave him borderline schizophrenia, he’s stuck in the past

[3ba11]

Start a thread about this years Celtics, you won't do it.


Two years ago in 2020, the Celtics had a low-assist team that lived off extra offensive talent - now that the extra talent is gone, it's still a low-assist team that now ranks among the worst offenses in the league.

The weak offensive strategy magnifies the team's exceptional defensive talent, which has remained a top defense despite facing fresh opponents - opponents aren't worn down from defending the Celtics' inept, low-assist offense, so the Celtics' defense has their hands full... Yet they perform admirably against these fresh opponents, so imagine if they could face opponents that were worn down from defending an effective Celtics offense.

So the offense is the issue.. Specifically, Tatum's shot allocation should be adjusted so he can better handle the additional burden that he has this year.. His shooting efficiency and efficiency per possession (ortg) have decreased this year as his unassisted rate (ball-dominance) increased from the higher burden..

Accordingly, the coach needs to re-structure the offense so Tatum's unassisted rate goes back down to levels that maximize his efficiency like previous years - but he doesn't have to reduce his shot attempts - he just needs to: 1) come off screens more.. 2) shift his unassisted shots to more mid-range instead of unassisted threes.. 3) the coach should let Brown run the offense occasionally - this would put Tatum in that higher efficiency "shooter" role, which is also a "closer" role - Tatum needs to become an elite closer of possessions.

[GrayGoat]

Two years ago in 2020, the Celtics had a low-assist team that lived off extra offensive talent - now that the extra talent is gone, it's still a low-assist team that now ranks among the worst offenses in the league.

The weak offensive strategy magnifies the team's exceptional defensive talent, which has remained a top defense despite facing fresh opponents - opponents aren't worn down from defending the Celtics' inept, low-assist offense, so the Celtics' defense has their hands full... Yet they perform admirably against these fresh opponents, so imagine if they could face opponents that were worn down from defending an effective Celtics offense.

So the offense is the issue.. Specifically, Tatum's shot allocation should be adjusted so he can better handle the additional burden that he has this year.. His shooting efficiency and efficiency per possession (ortg) have decreased this year as his unassisted rate (ball-dominance) increased from the higher burden..

Accordingly, the coach needs to re-structure the offense so Tatum's unassisted rate goes back down to levels that maximize his efficiency like previous years - but he doesn't have to reduce his shot attempts - he just needs to: 1) come off screens more.. 2) shift his unassisted shots to more mid-range instead of unassisted threes.. 3) the coach should let Brown run the offense occasionally - this would put Tatum in that higher efficiency "shooter" role, which is also a "closer" role - Tatum needs to become an elite closer of possessions.

Tatum is having a slight down year but he is asked to handle the ball much more. He is averaging 26/4/8 he increases his rebounds and potential assists this year while having ball handling duties. Not bad but they are experimenting. I agree Tatum needs to be set up on offense more whether that comes from brown or smart he should be our closer

[3ba11]

Tatum is having a slight down year but he is asked to handle the ball much more. He is averaging 26/4/8 he increases his rebounds and potential assists this year while having ball handling duties. Not bad but they are experimenting. I agree Tatum needs to be set up on offense more whether that comes from brown or smart he should be our closer


Indeed.... turning a frontcourt player into a 2nd point guard on the floor (a 2nd player with a point guard hold-time) gives teammates less hold-time and assists than they get in traditional 1 point guard lineups.. Lower teammate assists result in low TEAM assists and a brand that struggles on the Finals level or against better ball movement teams.

It's called Lebron-ball, and it results in lower team assists.. In this case, Jaylen Brown's assists and assist percentage are down this year at a time when they should be increasing, while the Celtics' offense can't get off the ground.

It turns out that reducing all your teammates to spot-up roles is bad strategy and requires extra supporting talent to win (team-hopping for super-teams).. The skillset can't develop the necessary chemistry/brand and lacks the teammate fits/development to win organically..

So Tatum should abandon the "Lebron route" or he'll end up wanting super-teams - he'll waste this perfect organic opportunity to win with an elite sidekick and great defensive talent.

It's already been established that Lebron-ball underachieves a team's talent, such as losing the East with homecourt in 09/10, and then turning preseason favorites into Finals underdog or loser for 6 straight years (11-16'), or being lottery out West without AD.

So Tatum should alter his current path towards needy ball-dominator and become an elite CLOSER of possessions, which has the greatest control over a game... Today's coaches overvalue the start of a possession when ANYONE can initiate a possession and start the ball moving.. It's an inherent waste of talent to have the most talented player do it

[ShawkFactory]

Indeed.... turning a frontcourt player into a 2nd point guard on the floor (a 2nd player with a point guard hold-time) gives teammates less hold-time and assists than they get in traditional 1 point guard lineups.. Lower teammate assists result in low TEAM assists and a brand that struggles on the Finals level or against better ball movement teams.

It's called Lebron-ball, and it results in lower team assists.. In this case, Jaylen Brown's assists and assist percentage are down this year at a time when they should be increasing, while the Celtics' offense can't get off the ground.

It turns out that reducing all your teammates to spot-up roles is bad strategy and requires extra supporting talent to win (team-hopping for super-teams).. The skillset can't develop the necessary chemistry/brand and lacks the teammate fits/development to win organically..

So Tatum should abandon the "Lebron route" or he'll end up wanting super-teams - he'll waste this perfect organic opportunity to win with an elite sidekick and great defensive talent.

It's already been established that Lebron-ball underachieves a team's talent, such as losing the East with homecourt in 09/10, and then turning preseason favorites into Finals underdog or loser for 6 straight years (11-16'), or being lottery out West without AD.

So Tatum should alter his current path towards needy ball-dominator and become an elite CLOSER of possessions, which has the greatest control over a game... Today's coaches overvalue the start of a possession when ANYONE can initiate a possession and start the ball moving.. It's an inherent waste of talent to have the most talented player do it

Since you're always a "team assists" guy, I decided to do a little experiment (for fun; I don't expect an actual response from you). I've listed all of the finals matchups since 2003-2004 and their regular season rankings for team assists. I then included the total assists during the actual finals series. The winner of the finals result is bolded and underlined.

2004: 4th vs 17th; 103 vs 89
2005: 12th vs 20th; 130 vs 115
2006: 18th vs 30th; 100 vs 95
2007: 11th vs 23rd; 67 vs 66
2008: 5th vs 9th; 138 vs 116
2009: 4th vs 29th; 92 vs 82
2010: 3rd vs 18th; 138 vs 102
2011: 5th vs 29th; 117 vs 109
2012: 25th vs 29th; 90 vs 79
2013: 1st vs 12th; 148 vs 129
2014: 1st vs 14th; 127 vs 76
2015: 1st vs 18th; 138 vs 95
2016: 1st vs 14th; 158 vs 126
2017: 1st vs 13th; 147 vs 108
2018: 1st vs 19th; 111 vs 84
2019: 1st vs 14th; 169 vs 138
2020: 5th vs 9th; 150 vs 146
2021: 9th vs 14th; 138 vs 120

Outside of 2014-2018 there isn't that much of a correlation. Generally speaking the good teams are in the top half/third. But not always the case.

[SATAN]

https://i.makeagif.com/media/2-04-2022/ZBZf4k.gif



Stopped reading there.

[Full Court]

Can you explain why Madonna also took it the Pippen route??
Jordan was way out of that skank's league. She had to settle for Pippen.

[GrayGoat]

Jordan was way out of that skank's league. She had to settle for Pippen.
Coach. Pippen was BIGGER

[Full Court]

.
There's never been a bigger statistical gap between 1st and 2nd option than MJ-Pippen

They weren't a "duo" any more than Hakeem/Horry or Dirk/Terry



PLAYOFFS


94' Hakeem... 27.7 PER.... 8.5 BPM... 2.6 VORP... 0.208 WS/48... 28.9 ppg
94' Horry........ 16.7 PER.... 5.0 BPM... 1.4 VORP... 0.152 WS/48... 11.7 ppg
GAP.................. 11.0...........3.5........... 1.2............ 0.056............. 17.2

93' Jordan...... 30.1 PER... 11.6 BPM... 2.9 VORP... 0.270 WS/48... 35.1 ppg
93' Pippen...... 16.9 PER..... 2.0 BPM... 0.8 VORP... 0.083 WS/48... 20.1 ppg
GAP.................. 13.2........... 9.6........... 2.1............ 0.187............ 15.0

11' Dirk.......... 25.2 PER... 5.5 BPM... 1.6 VORP... 0.210 WS/48... 27.7 ppg
11' Terry......... 20.3 PER... 4.6 BPM... 1.1 VORP... 0.179 WS/48... 17.5 ppg
GAP................... 4.9............1.1........... 0.5............ 0.031............ 10.2

92' Jordan...... 27.2 PER.... 9.9 BPM... 2.8 VORP... 0.216 WS/48... 34.5 ppg
92' Pippen...... 20.1 PER.... 6.6 BPM... 2.0 VORP... 0.168 WS/48... 19.5 ppg
GAP.................. 7.1............ 3.3............ 0.8............ 0.048............ 15.0

91' Jordan...... 32.0 PER... 14.6 BPM... 2.9 VORP... 0.333 WS/48... 31.1 ppg
91' Pippen...... 22.0 PER..... 6.5 BPM... 1.5 VORP... 0.197 WS/48... 21.6 ppg
GAP.................. 10.0........... 8.1........... 1.4............ 0.136............ 9.5

96' Jordan...... 26.7 PER... 10.7 BPM... 2.4 VORP.. 0.317 WS/48... 30.7 ppg
96' Pippen...... 19.4 PER..... 7.8 BPM... 1.8 VORP.. 0.195 WS/48... 16.9 ppg
GAP................... 7.3........... 2.9............ 0.6............ 0.122........... 13.8

97' Jordan...... 27.1 PER.... 9.9 BPM... 2.4 VORP... 0.235 WS/48... 31.1 ppg
97' Pippen...... 18.1 PER.... 5.1 BPM... 1.4 VORP... 0.145 WS/48... 19.2 ppg
GAP.................. 9.1........... 4.8............ 1.0............ 0.090........... 11.9

98' Jordan...... 28.1 PER.... 9.0 BPM... 2.4 VORP... 0.265 WS/48... 32.4 ppg
98' Pippen...... 19.4 PER.... 5.6 BPM... 1.6 VORP... 0.166 WS/48... 16.8 ppg
GAP.................. 8.7........... 3.4............ 0.8............ 0.095............ 16.4

Dude, you're the only person I have ever run across anywhere from 1990 until today who says that Jordan and Pippen weren't a duo.

[ShawkFactory]

Dude, you're the only person I have ever run across anywhere from 1990 until today who says that Jordan and Pippen weren't a duo.

A duo is two people playing together. There’s no stipulation to the word as to who does what.

Simon and Garfunkel were a duo and we all know who carried them.

[Full Court]

A duo is two people playing together. There’s no stipulation to the word as to who does what.

Simon and Garfunkel were a duo and we all know who carried them.

Yep, no disagreement from me.

But any time NBA "duos" has come up in conversation for the last 30 years, Jordan/Pippen comes to everyone's mind.

[ShawkFactory]

Yep, no disagreement from me.

But any time NBA "duos" has come up in conversation for the last 30 years, Jordan/Pippen comes to everyone's mind.

OP has to make sure that everyone knows that Pippen sucks. As if that somehow changes Jordan’s status.