Kobe Bryant vs. Hakeem Olajuwon

[Lebron23]

https://library.sportingnews.com/styles/crop_style_16_9_desktop/s3/2021-10/hakeem-olajuwon-kobe-bryant-getty-ftr-040316_12u6zmp2c0k7mzzgzpu4qtxx1.jpg?itok=8_wcNIkS

https://rocketswire.usatoday.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/29/2020/01/usatsi_13970703_168382939_lowres-e1580328241939.jpg?w=1024&h=576&crop=1

Who ranks higher in the all time lists??

[BigKobeFan]

both higher than bran

[HoopsNY]

Hakeem

[ShawkFactory]

Ranked higher? Kobe.

Who would I rather have on my team? Depends on the rest of the squad.

Who would I start a team with? Hakeem, but it depends on the era. If it's now then probably Kobe.

[John_Connor]

Ranked higher? Kobe.

Who would I rather have on my team? Depends on the rest of the squad.

Who would I start a team with? Hakeem, but it depends on the era. If it's now then probably Kobe.

if it was about who you would draft then I would pick wilt, Shaq, kareem, Hakeem with the top 4 picks. that's just more about rarity of greatness per position and how much of a necessity a great big would be in an alltime fantasy league

Hakeem is in my top 5 skilled players list but even then he's below kobe who is number 1 and also below kobe in terms of achievements/resume where he's top 5/6 and Hakeems 10/11

for all time drafting Hakeems 4th and kobes around top 10 after all the dominant offensive and defensive bigs are taken

[Round Mound]

The Dream. He was way more dominant.

[John_Connor]

The Dream. He was way more dominant.

na that's retarded. Kobe probly has like 100 more 40 point games, 10 times as many 50 point games. and more scored in one half than Hakeem ever dropped in regulation plus overtime.


the only guys as dominant as kobe all time are wilt and MJ. and shaq for a few finals series vs bums


Hakeem was great but he couldn't call his own number every time up the floor...


more valuable with both ends combined on a nightly bases? perhaps. maybe for a few years. but kobes level of dominance is basically 1 man show type shit. Hakeem has to pass out if a double team. Kobe doesn't

[Round Mound]

na that's retarded. Kobe probly has like 100 more 40 point games, 10 times as many 50 point games. and more scored in one half than Hakeem ever dropped in regulation plus overtime.


the only guys as dominant as kobe all time are wilt and MJ. and shaq for a few finals series vs bums


Hakeem was great but he couldn't call his own number every time up the floor...


more valuable with both ends combined on a nightly bases? perhaps. maybe for a few years. but kobes level of dominance is basically 1 man show type shit. Hakeem has to pass out if a double team. Kobe doesn't

Giannis is a lesser scorer and defender than Hakeem yet he won last years championship. Kobe had more ways to score but at 45% while Hakeem was a 50-53% FG scorer at over 25 PPG. Defensively Hakeem was also better. Trade Hakeem for Kobe on his Rockets and they don't win the ring. Its not close really...

[ShawkFactory]

na that's retarded. Kobe probly has like 100 more 40 point games, 10 times as many 50 point games. and more scored in one half than Hakeem ever dropped in regulation plus overtime.


the only guys as dominant as kobe all time are wilt and MJ. and shaq for a few finals series vs bums


Hakeem was great but he couldn't call his own number every time up the floor...


more valuable with both ends combined on a nightly bases? perhaps. maybe for a few years. but kobes level of dominance is basically 1 man show type shit. Hakeem has to pass out if a double team. Kobe doesn't

Yes he could.

[John_Connor]

Giannis is a lesser scorer and defender than Hakeem yet he won last years championship. Kobe had more ways to score but at 45% while Hakeem was a 50-53% FG scorer at over 25 PPG. Defensively Hakeem was also better. Trade Hakeem for Kobe on his Rockets and they don't win the ring. Its not close really...

1. I dunno why you're bringing up giannis

2. the bucks made it to the finals without giannis. neither the rockets or Lakers make the finals without Kobe or Hakeem. even during shaqs peak 2000 season. they lose to Portland in game 7. and again I have no idea why you're bringing up this era or a player from this era. total low IQ take

3. like I said. bigs are more efficient/consistent yes but they can't go off for 40/50/60 whenever they want. they're way more dependent on guys getting them the ball and shooters keeping guys from doubling them. Kobe never needed a strategy to get his. 1 on 5 he's getting 40. he can get an open shot whenever over anyone. that's dominance. what you're referring to is efficiency up to a certain allotment. if Hakeem forced it he would struggle.

4. yes hakeems more valuable on defense. but let's be honest. no big man is more skilled than a perimeter defender that has to pick up a guy full court. and the game itself is 100 time harder as a main ball handler.

I played point guard and center and believe me. it's a light day when all you gotta do is contest shots inside and run to the block each time. bigs have been getting away with murder in debates for far too long by retards that never played the game. even shaq will tell you he's not in the goat convo and kobe is with lebron and mike. bigs don't belong

[John_Connor]

Yes he could.

then why the lack of big scoring games.


32 games of 40+
2 games of 50+


that's like one season for Kobe and not even his best one. in 2007 he had 10 games of 50+

[ShawkFactory]

then why the lack of big scoring games.


32 games of 40+
2 games of 50+


that's like one season for Kobe and not even his best one. in 2007 he had 10 games of 50+

As you said earlier, it's different. I've watched a lot of Hakeem and he was doubled pretty much every time he touched the ball. It's easier and more practical to double a big man than a guard for obvious reasons, and Hakeem was a smart player who wouldn't force things if it wasn't necessary. By nature it's easier to take away big scoring games from a post player. But by doing so you're fvcking up your entire defense. Pick your poison. But teams in the 90s were more concerned with taking away bigs. That doesn't make the guard more dominant.

The playoffs are where it really mattered though. I'm not as concerned about a 45 point game against the Pacers or Timberwolves in February on the wrong end of a back to back. Kobe started 200 playoff games and scored 40 just 13 times. Hakeem did it 11 times in 140 games.

[Gohan]

Kobe because he was just flat out better

[John_Connor]

As you said earlier, it's different. I've watched a lot of Hakeem and he was doubled pretty much every time he touched the ball. It's easier and more practical to double a big man than a guard for obvious reasons

exactly. no need to go any further with this comparison. this is why bigs don't belong in goat debates cause they have a cap on how much they can do. even shaq really only broke out one time vs the clippers. most of the time a big night for shaq was 35 to 40. he couldn't get 50 barely ever

hes looked at as one of the most dominant players ever cause he averaged almost 40 in the finals vs some really poor competition. but he wasn't doing that vs sanantonio or Portland or Sacramento. they wouldn't allow it. when they played great teams kobe had to pick up his game cause you need a dynamic wing to break down a great defense. a big would just get suffocated.

[HoopsNY]

Ranked higher? Kobe.

Who would I rather have on my team? Depends on the rest of the squad.

Who would I start a team with? Hakeem, but it depends on the era. If it's now then probably Kobe.

On what basis? Hakeem between 1994-99 shot almost 29% from three (23-81). He was a 76% FTH shooter in his prime/peak years, and the data we have from '97-'99 ('99 being the last of his prime years) had him shooting 44% from 10-16 ft, and 46% from 16-29 ft.

Hakeem was an elite mid-range shooter who was well capable of developing the three ball as other centers in today's game did (Horford, Embiid, Jonas, Lopez, etc). Put Hakeem in this era and he's a 30/15/5/3/5 player on insane efficiency. He'd be MVP every single year.

[HoopsNY]

na that's retarded. Kobe probly has like 100 more 40 point games, 10 times as many 50 point games. and more scored in one half than Hakeem ever dropped in regulation plus overtime.


the only guys as dominant as kobe all time are wilt and MJ. and shaq for a few finals series vs bums


Hakeem was great but he couldn't call his own number every time up the floor...


more valuable with both ends combined on a nightly bases? perhaps. maybe for a few years. but kobes level of dominance is basically 1 man show type shit. Hakeem has to pass out if a double team. Kobe doesn't

1 man type show shit? Did you forget Hakeem between 1993-95? Hakeem averaged 33.0 PPG in the 1995 playoffs going up against elite defensive teams and centers. That's more PPG than any playoff run Kobe had for his entire career (albeit Kobe's best was 32.8).

Hakeem averaged 32.8 PPG against prime Shaq, higher than any finals performance that Kobe had (32.4).

Take a look at Hakeem's spread:

Finals: 28/11/3/2/3 on 49%

Playoffs: 26/11/3/2/3 on 53%

Game 7s: 27/14/5/2/2 on 50%

Elimination Games: 24/12/3/2/3 on 53%

His elimination games numbers are skewed because they include his demise where he was on teams where he was over the hill while Kobe had torn his achilles, so we didn't get to see him in the same situation. Otherwise:

Elimination Games ('85-'99): 26/12/3/2/3 on 53%

Let's look at Kobe's:

Finals: 25/6/5/2/1 on 41%

Playoffs: 26/5/5/1/1 on 45%

Game 7s: 22/8/5/1/1 on 39%

Elimination Games: 22/6/3/1/1 on 41%

This isn't even a debate.

[ShawkFactory]

exactly. no need to go any further with this comparison. this is why bigs don't belong in goat debates cause they have a cap on how much they can do. even shaq really only broke out one time vs the clippers. most of the time a big night for shaq was 35 to 40. he couldn't get 50 barely ever

hes looked at as one of the most dominant players ever cause he averaged almost 40 in the finals vs some really poor competition. but he wasn't doing that vs sanantonio or Portland or Sacramento. they wouldn't allow it. when they played great teams kobe had to pick up his game cause you need a dynamic wing to break down a great defense. a big would just get suffocated.

I mean if your cap is 40-50 point games against mediocre teams then sure. I don't view the game that way.

Bigs in the 90s dictated how defenses played. To bring you a baseball analogy, getting intentionally walked half the time doesn't make you less dominant than they guy who doesn't but hits more home runs.

[HoopsNY]

As you said earlier, it's different. I've watched a lot of Hakeem and he was doubled pretty much every time he touched the ball. It's easier and more practical to double a big man than a guard for obvious reasons, and Hakeem was a smart player who wouldn't force things if it wasn't necessary. By nature it's easier to take away big scoring games from a post player. But by doing so you're fvcking up your entire defense. Pick your poison. But teams in the 90s were more concerned with taking away bigs. That doesn't make the guard more dominant.

The playoffs are where it really mattered though. I'm not as concerned about a 45 point game against the Pacers or Timberwolves in February on the wrong end of a back to back. Kobe started 200 playoff games and scored 40 just 13 times. Hakeem did it 11 times in 140 games.

:applause:

[SouBeachTalents]

1 man type show shit? Did you forget Hakeem between 1993-95? Hakeem averaged 33.0 PPG in the 1995 playoffs going up against elite defensive teams and centers. That's more PPG than any playoff run Kobe had for his entire career (albeit Kobe's best was 32.8).

Hakeem averaged 32.8 PPG against prime Shaq, higher than any finals performance that Kobe had (32.4).

Take a look at Hakeem's spread:

Finals: 28/11/3/2/3 on 49%

Playoffs: 26/11/3/2/3 on 53%

Game 7s: 27/14/5/2/2 on 50%

Elimination Games: 24/12/3/2/3 on 53%

His elimination games numbers are skewed because they include his demise where he was on teams where he was over the hill while Kobe had torn his achilles, so we didn't get to see him in the same situation. Otherwise:

Elimination Games ('85-'99): 26/12/3/2/3 on 53%

Let's look at Kobe's:

Finals: 25/6/5/2/1 on 41%

Playoffs: 26/5/5/1/1 on 45%

Game 7s: 22/8/5/1/1 on 39%

Elimination Games: 22/6/3/1/1 on 41%

This isn't even a debate.
Who ranks higher is one thing, but discussing who the better basketball player was? I honestly don't see how anyone could pick Kobe over Hakeem. He basically matches Kobe in his greatest asset while being one of the greatest defensive players ever. And as you pointed out, wipes the floor with Kobe in big games & clutch performances.

And comparing their playoff runs? Hakeem had one of the greatest carry jobs ever in '94, then defeated a gauntlet of superstars and HOF's all on the road in '95. He went h2h with the greatest centers of his era, obliterating Ewing & Robinson and outplaying Shaq.

[Manny98]

I have Kobe 6th and Hakeem 9th all time

[HoopsNY]

I have Kobe 6th and Hakeem 9th all time

Shameful

[John_Connor]

1 man type show shit? Did you forget Hakeem between 1993-95? Hakeem averaged 33.0 PPG in the 1995 playoffs going up against elite defensive teams and centers. That's more PPG than any playoff run Kobe had for his entire career (albeit Kobe's best was 32.8).

Hakeem averaged 32.8 PPG against prime Shaq, higher than any finals performance that Kobe had (32.4).

Take a look at Hakeem's spread:

Finals: 28/11/3/2/3 on 49%

Playoffs: 26/11/3/2/3 on 53%

Game 7s: 27/14/5/2/2 on 50%

Elimination Games: 24/12/3/2/3 on 53%

His elimination games numbers are skewed because they include his demise where he was on teams where he was over the hill while Kobe had torn his achilles, so we didn't get to see him in the same situation. Otherwise:

Elimination Games ('85-'99): 26/12/3/2/3 on 53%

Let's look at Kobe's:

Finals: 25/6/5/2/1 on 41%

Playoffs: 26/5/5/1/1 on 45%

Game 7s: 22/8/5/1/1 on 39%

Elimination Games: 22/6/3/1/1 on 41%

[B]This isn't even a debate.


first smart thing you've said ITT


cant say I've ever seen any player put Hakeem over kobe other than kenny Smith and he has nate Archibald over kobe and lebron outside of the top 10 all time so I wouldn't take his word for anything important relating to basketball



judging a player all time goes way deeper than some fg% efficiency and rebounding

- skills
- records
- achievements
- big games
- respect
- competition
- eras


like yeah Hakeem had one of the most dominant playoff runs but it would be like if kobe won with Tim Duncan retired and doing gay porn for a year and a half

then coming back all skinny and out of shape midway through the next season from all the jizz he swallowed ruining his appetite


just isn't the type of legacy I would be proud of tbh

[John_Connor]

https://voca.ro/18HATA1mS3Vl

:roll:

[Rysio]

Kobe. Better scorer and obviously better playmaker. Kobe was a qb/wr while hakeem only a wr.

[Cold soul]

Hakeem the better player but Kobe had the better career though.

[BarberSchool]

both higher than branBoth sincerely loved by BOTH the domestic and international public, in ways LeFraud Shames could never dream of.

[Round Mound]

Hakeem the better player but Kobe had the better career though.

This

[1987_Lakers]

You can make a solid case for both. But when both were at their peak Hakeem was a tier ahead of Kobe. I have them #10 and #11.

[RRR3]

On what basis? Hakeem between 1994-99 shot almost 29% from three (23-81). He was a 76% FTH shooter in his prime/peak years, and the data we have from '97-'99 ('99 being the last of his prime years) had him shooting 44% from 10-16 ft, and 46% from 16-29 ft.

Hakeem was an elite mid-range shooter who was well capable of developing the three ball as other centers in today's game did (Horford, Embiid, Jonas, Lopez, etc). Put Hakeem in this era and he's a 30/15/5/3/5 player on insane efficiency. He'd be MVP every single year.
It's basically impossible to average 5 BPG now

[houston]

Kobe because he was just flat out better

exactly man. Hakeem has overrated legacy

[John_Connor]

only on anonymous message boards where every kobe fan is banned and the only ones left are on their 150th alt is there a discussion about curry or hakeem or robinson or garnett being above kobe all time


yeah yeah we all get it guys. you've all been here for 15 years crying and making new voted lists every year cause most guys in and around the nba still put kobe above your idols and it eats you up inside


notice no kobe/mj fans do this anymore other than deranged 3ball .. most fans of them have moved on and are content with their guys legacies

i have lebron top 3 all time now with kobe and jordan. its a consensus. its silly to argue it. you guys post "gasol > kobe" threads every other day too. get a damn grip on reality lol

no real people agree with you

https://i.ibb.co/C7cBsFW/Screen-Shot-2022-02-12-at-1-29-55-AM.png



your level of hatred wouldn't be what it is if kobe was behind hakeem. you would be shitting on hakeem if he was anywhere near kobe/lebron/MJ are cause they're the "IT" guys

[John_Connor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKTgAN1l_6E&t=30s


wheres hakeem guys ... wheres gasol... wheres garnett and david robinson... wheres the backpicks rankings formula bruh

wheres their ISH/realgm criteria

:roll:

[Westbrook_Fan]

only on anonymous message boards where every kobe fan is banned and the only ones left are on their 150th alt is there a discussion about curry or hakeem or robinson or garnett being above kobe all time


yeah yeah we all get it guys. you've all been here for 15 years crying and making new voted lists every year cause most guys in and around the nba still put kobe above your idols and it eats you up inside


notice no kobe/mj fans do this anymore other than deranged 3ball .. most fans of them have moved on and are content with their guys legacies

i have lebron top 3 all time now with kobe and jordan. its a consensus. its silly to argue it. you guys post "gasol > kobe" threads every other day too. get a damn grip on reality lol

no real people agree with you

https://i.ibb.co/C7cBsFW/Screen-Shot-2022-02-12-at-1-29-55-AM.png



your level of hatred wouldn't be what it is if kobe was behind hakeem. you would be shitting on hakeem if he was anywhere near kobe/lebron/MJ are cause they're the "IT" guys


What about henry abott

[1987_Lakers]

Only in your sick head is Kobe being top 3 the consensus.

He's usually ranked around top 9-12 among fans and media.

It's not just insidehoops and realgm (who both voted him outside the top 10)

Hell, I just googled "Where does Kobe rank all-time reddit" just to see what they had to say and found this thread where most people ranked him between 8-13. Face facts, he's closer to Hakeem than he is LeBron.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nbadiscussion/comments/obr66x/where_do_you_rank_kobe_alltime_for_kobe_stans_and/

[Anfernee]

Who ranks higher is one thing, but discussing who the better basketball player was? I honestly don't see how anyone could pick Kobe over Hakeem. He basically matches Kobe in his greatest asset while being one of the greatest defensive players ever. And as you pointed out, wipes the floor with Kobe in big games & clutch performances.

And comparing their playoff runs? Hakeem had one of the greatest carry jobs ever in '94, then defeated a gauntlet of superstars and HOF's all on the road in '95. He went h2h with the greatest centers of his era, obliterating Ewing & Robinson and outplaying Shaq.

:applause:

[SouBeachTalents]

only on anonymous message boards where every kobe fan is banned and the only ones left are on their 150th alt is there a discussion about curry or hakeem or robinson or garnett being above kobe all time


yeah yeah we all get it guys. you've all been here for 15 years crying and making new voted lists every year cause most guys in and around the nba still put kobe above your idols and it eats you up inside


notice no kobe/mj fans do this anymore other than deranged 3ball .. most fans of them have moved on and are content with their guys legacies

i have lebron top 3 all time now with kobe and jordan. its a consensus. its silly to argue it. you guys post "gasol > kobe" threads every other day too. get a damn grip on reality lol

no real people agree with you

https://i.ibb.co/C7cBsFW/Screen-Shot-2022-02-12-at-1-29-55-AM.png



your level of hatred wouldn't be what it is if kobe was behind hakeem. you would be shitting on hakeem if he was anywhere near kobe/lebron/MJ are cause they're the "IT" guys
Why did you cut off the rest of that list? Worried that having Iverson top 5 would delegitimatize it :oldlol:

Imagine using a list that has Iverson top 5 as proof that you're right and telling other people to get a grip on reality.

[John_Connor]

Only in your sick head is Kobe being top 3 the consensus.

He's usually ranked around top 9-12 among fans and media.

It's not just insidehoops and realgm (who both voted him outside the top 10)

Hell, I just googled "Where does Kobe rank all-time reddit" just to see what they had to say and found this thread where most people ranked him between 8-13. Face facts, he's closer to Hakeem than he is LeBron.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nbadiscussion/comments/obr66x/where_do_you_rank_kobe_alltime_for_kobe_stans_and/

kobes top 3 consensus among players and top 5 consensus among fans

there is factual data to back this up


your opinion is literally only agreed with by henry abbott who got fired by espn soon after he first released his kobe 12th ranking list voted on by hooptv insider experts or whatever they're called at espn and literally all of them are unemployed now... even nick wright has kobe in his top 10 and above shaq. and hes the biggest kobe hater on tv


realgm and ISH are now the only places ranking kobe as low as you... and its due to mostly a hoard of alts by lebron loving admins like steve and its even worse on realgm. i can't even step foot in there without getting IP banned right away. here i can at least last a month sometimes.


its no wonder stalker left this place. i'm literally the only kobe fan left that posts here. do you even realize that? 3balls a jordan fan. i have a few guys here that back me up sometimes but they're spurs/warriors fans or something.


debating kobe here is like trying to talk positive about trump on twitter or facebook. you're like a left wing big tech company and lebron is joe biden.

he can do no wrong and kobe trump is orange man bad.


we get it. you're all suffering from mass formation psychosis. luckily for me i have no mass formation of kobe fans to drive me down to your level. so i've basically moved on and just don't care anymore. kobe, lebron and jordan will be above every other player that ever existed until the next all time great comes along. and then maybe jordan is forgotten like magic and bird were. its simply a generational thing. its all opinion based. its about respect and subjective bias. there is literally no way to compare guys from different eras because the game changes and so does their competition. its a silly thing to do. kobe only played hakeem a few times as a young kid and hakeem was old as hell. they never once defended each other. its a stupid debate/comparison

you're only doing this because you're insecure about lebron right now. hes getting old. his team sucks and you just made your all time top 50 voted list 2 months ago so you need a way to shit on kobe. you just did your gasol is the real mvp of the finals thing a few days ago and now you're pissed the lakers didn't make a move to get rid of westbrook


i get it. you're near suicide. its tough. it took me a long time to find another guy to really get behind and not just "like"... i love luka now. hes just like kobe was with his back against the wall and the media trying to bury him cause he doesn't fit their black agenda. hes an outsider. hes not american. hes not a flashy dunker like ja morant. i can see why his 51 point game would be overlooked and his mvp type season would get zero love. i know why the tnt crew went nuts when ja made it over him as a starter for the allstar game. i also know why durant picked booker over him as the first allstar reserve selection. hes best friends with kyrie. the guy that said a white guy shouldn't be the logo cause he doesn't represent black excellence.


hes a great underdog story. the media calling him fat all year. him quickly shedding the pounds and putting on a show for over a month with little recognition. this is what drives me as a fan. its way more exciting when the media is against your guy. you want him to prove them wrong. which is why i can also understand why you guys have had an absolutely boring past 15 years worshipping lebron. because hes always gotten love from the media for the most part. hes been their poster boy since 2012 and also was from 2004 till 2010... only 1 year did you guys know what it was like to cheer a villain. it was cool wasn't it.. too bad lebron shat the bed and ruined that bad guy season. but that feeling is how us kobe fans have felt since 2003 and now i feel it for luka. i've found my passion. i pray for your sake you find another one cause lebrons time is coming to an end and theres only so many all time lists you can make before you put a bullet through the back of your skull

[John_Connor]

and btw 10 to 20 reddit dorks is no different than an ISH/realgm vote.

you know damn well the average internet goon is a lebron fan. kobe fans are mostly all my age with families and kids lol. most fans in general move on after their guy retired.

I'm sure if this was 2006 to 2010 still things would be different


everyone knows the true gauge for rankings among fans in general is ranker cause it's simple. no account needed. no admins. if there's duplicates they're usually not enough to sway the vote too much cause you would have to go to the trouble of changing vpn's 20,000 times.. but I've seen kobes ranking on there fluctuate the last few times I mentioned ranker so I wouldn't put it past Steve to go ape shit one more time on there

but top 5 is around where most fans have kobe. just as I said

https://i.ibb.co/pZdS9V4/Screenshot-20220212-023926-Gallery.jpg

[k0kakw0rld]

Kobe because he was just flat out better
Nah
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vww3lmLQQGM

Hakeem taught him moves not the other way around, fool!

Hakeem is higher and was the better player overall.

[rmt]

Nah
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vww3lmLQQGM

Hakeem taught him moves not the other way around, fool!

Hakeem is higher and was the better player overall.


I think people are confusing better player with overall career accomplishments (body of work - what most people judge their GOAT list on). Interesting tidbits from wiki - who Hakeem learned from:

Olajuwon did not play basketball until the age of 15 in high school, when he entered a local tournament while at the Muslim Teachers College in Lagos, Nigeria.[7] It has been said that a coach in Nigeria once asked him to dunk and demonstrated while standing on a chair. Olajuwon then tried to stand on the chair himself. When redirected by staff not to use the chair, Hakeem could initially not dunk the basketball.[11] - LOL

Olajuwon sought advice from the coaching staff about how to increase his playing time, and they advised him to work out with local Houston resident and multiple NBA MVP winner, Moses Malone. Malone, who was then a center on the NBA's Houston Rockets, played games every off-season with several NBA players at the Fonde Recreation Center. Olajuwon joined the workouts and went head to head with Malone in several games throughout the summer. Olajuwon credited this experience with rapidly improving his game: "The way Moses helped me is by being out there playing and allowing me to go against that level of competition. He was the best center in the NBA at the time, so I was trying to improve my game against the best."[9]

Moses was like a freight train back in those days - unstoppable.

[1987_Lakers]

Why did you cut off the rest of that list? Worried that having Iverson top 5 would delegitimatize it :oldlol:

Imagine using a list that has Iverson top 5 as proof that you're right and telling other people to get a grip on reality.

:oldlol:

Just the other day he was clowning Iverson, saying fans and players overrated him because he was "cool". Now he uses a fan list that his him #5 all-time to prove a point. How pathetic.

I can go on and on, the most in depth greatest players list I've ever seen doesn't even have Kobe top 10 while LeBron was #2 on his list.

https://backpicks.com/2017/12/11/the-backpicks-goat-the-40-best-careers-in-nba-history/

[Gohan]

Yall lebron stans gonna act like iverson isnt atleast a top 10 player of all time? Hell even shaq said he was top 5. Using iverson is a bad example b1tches

[1987_Lakers]

Yall lebron stans gonna act like iverson isnt atleast a top 10 player of all time? Hell even shaq said he was top 5. Using iverson is a bad example b1tches

This is what a Kobe stan had to say about Iverson...

https://vocaroo.com/1aG73lOeMFk3

[John_Connor]

Nah
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vww3lmLQQGM

Hakeem taught him moves not the other way around, fool!

Hakeem is higher and was the better player overall.

kobe literally never even used those moves and had a full post game before going to work out with Hakeem lol

you know that was in like 2011 right. his career was basically over by then

kobes post fade/hook/reverse pivot/step through/off the backboard to himself/reverse baseline spin and many more moves were already in his arsenal

[John_Connor]

:oldlol:

Just the other day he was clowning Iverson, saying fans and players overrated him because he was "cool". Now he uses a fan list that his him #5 all-time to prove a point. How pathetic.

I can go on and on, the most in depth greatest players list I've ever seen doesn't even have Kobe top 10 while LeBron was #2 on his list.

https://backpicks.com/2017/12/11/the-backpicks-goat-the-40-best-careers-in-nba-history/

I said kobe has the player and fan vote on his side. then provide player and fan voting results and you mock me for using the player and fan votes to prove he has players and fans on his side. sorry I didn't use an obscure message board formula invented by a guy that favors analytics that heavily weigh rebounds and blocks over titles and all nba teams


like I said at most you have a few basement dwelling kobe hating internet trolls that run message boards and ban every kobe fan.

[John_Connor]

Why did you cut off the rest of that list? Worried that having Iverson top 5 would delegitimatize it :oldlol:

Imagine using a list that has Iverson top 5 as proof that you're right and telling other people to get a grip on reality.

it said a few random guys got 1 or 2 votes like Iverson. obviously like any human voted list there's gonna be extreme biased people participating.. they get averaged out and become obsolete over a large sample size. you can't say "oh the player vote doesn't count cause not 100% of the people voted correctly"


no sorry.. thats not how it works.


players vote kobe 3rd

fans vote kobe 5th


media votes kobe 8th-9th since his accident


lebron fan message boards vote kobe 11th or 12th. sometimes even 14th

I'm sure he will fall even farther on here and realgm


you guys aren't convincing anyone though. get a new favorite player like I have. ease your pain. go the distance

[1987_Lakers]

I said kobe has the player and fan vote on his side. then provide player and fan voting results and you mock me for using the player and fan votes to prove he has players and fans on his side. sorry I didn't use an obscure message board formula invented by a guy that favors analytics that heavily weigh rebounds and blocks over titles and all nba teams


like I said at most you have a few basement dwelling kobe hating internet trolls that run message boards and ban every kobe fan.

And Iverson has the player and fan vote on his side as well. What does that tell you? Most players and casual fans are retarded. How is it ok for you to trash Iverson and say how overrated he is by casual fans and players and then go turnaround and say Kobe is top 3 ever because "casuals and players have him top 3?" Both Kobe and Iverson are overrated by the casuals, and both are usually ranked outside the top 10 by real fans.

[John_Connor]

And Iverson has the player and fan vote on his side as well. What does that tell you? Most players and casual fans are retarded. How is it ok for you to trash Iverson and say how overrated he is by casual fans and players and then go turnaround and say Kobe is top 3 ever because "casuals and players have him top 3?" Both Kobe and Iverson are overrated by the casuals, and both are usually ranked outside the top 10 by real fans.

no Iverson doesn't have the player and fan vote on his side because I've only ever seen one player put Iverson in his top 5. like I said there's gonna be anomalies. most players have legit top 10 guys in their top 5.

kobes in a ton of top 5s. if you have a large sample size then it becomes a majority/consensus

and most people just go to ranker for the top 10. it's always the same top 10 to 12 guys we all vote for but ranked differently. Iverson is 13th on their list cause he doesn't have enough haters to keep him below guys like karl malone, kevin durant, jerry west and other guys who don't have a big following.


for instance
kobe has 80k votes combined and Iverson has 30k. then a few spots down has 20k

its obvious people are only giving a f*ck about the top 10 and voting guys out of it.


the rest of the list won't make sense cause nobodies really down voting equally till someone gets into the top 10


its the only fan voted thing I can trust cause the admins can't ban Kobe fans like they do here and every other message board.


I mean seriously go to any bar or party and bring up who's the goat and kobe/lebrons names will come up after Jordan's.. nobody is gonna say "ummm what about tim Duncan or Bill Russell lmao


fans got kobe top 5. more than likely top 3 like players have him but with all the deranged lebron fans down voting him it bumped him to 5th. but if you just look at up votes kobes 3rd with 52k

[SouBeachTalents]

Acting like players opinions are infallible and should be treated as gospel is both ridiculous and only an appeal to authority. Look at this video of Shaq playing "Start, bench, cut"

https://twitter.com/NBATV/status/1246627696655757313

First question: Kyrie, AD or KAT

Shaq: "I gotta stick with the big guys" cuts Kyrie

Next: LeBron, Yao or Dwight

Shaq cuts Dwight instead of Yao out of complete personal bias, a decision virtually nobody knowledgeable about basketball would agree with

And the coup de grace. Last question, he gets asked Iverson, Webber or Duncan.

After literally starting the video saying he's "gotta stick with the big guys", and after spending the last decade bringing up his "4 rangz' to Chuck, he cuts Duncan, the consensus top 10 big guy with 5 rings, and starts Iverson, the small guard with zero titles.

In this short 2 minute video he manages to make idiotic picks, let personal bias affect his judgement, and 100% contradict himself. So sorry, all those sins don't get forgiven just because he was a great player.

[John_Connor]

Acting like players opinions are infallible and should be treated as gospel is both ridiculous and only an appeal to authority. Look at this video of Shaq playing "Start, bench, cut"

https://twitter.com/NBATV/status/1246627696655757313

First question: Kyrie, AD or KAT

Shaq: "I gotta stick with the big guys" cuts Kyrie

Next: LeBron, Yao or Dwight

Shaq cuts Dwight instead of Yao out of complete personal bias, a decision virtually nobody knowledgeable about basketball would agree with

And the coup de grace. Last question, he gets asked Iverson, Webber or Duncan.

After literally starting the video saying he's "gotta stick with the big guys", and after spending the last decade bringing up his "4 rangz' to Chuck, he cuts Duncan, the consensus top 10 big guy with 5 rings, and starts Iverson, the small guard with zero titles.

In this short 2 minute video he manages to make idiotic picks, let personal bias affect his judgement, and 100% contradict himself. So sorry, all those sins don't get forgiven just because he was a great player.

when did I say all players opinions were valid. I said a consensus of them is. you average them out. its like the Olympic figure skating judges. drop the highest score and lowest scores and just use the rest


there's always gonna be nutjobs. this entire forum is full of them. the only people left here are either retired or insane. who else posts on message boards anymore. especially past the age if 15


I try leaving all the time and did for multiple years cause it's embarrassing. it means you have nothing else going on a lot of the time. I have so much free time I have to post here when I'm not with friends or I would go insane. especially since covid lockdowns up here.


most of you guys don't have an excuse though. you guys are mostly free to do anything in the states and you have to work for a living. like seriously stop obsessing over kobe already. find a new passion

[1987_Lakers]

no Iverson doesn't have the player and fan vote on his side because I've only ever seen one player put Iverson in his top 5. like I said there's gonna be anomalies. most players have legit top 10 guys in their top 5.


and most people just go to ranker for the top 10. it's always the same top 10 to 12 guys we all vote for but ranked differently. Iverson is 13th on their list cause he doesn't have enough haters to keep him below guys like karl malone, kevin durant, jerry west and other guys who don't have a big following.

He doesn't have fans on his side, yet he's ranked #13 on a site where most people go to vote? That's extremely high for him. :lol

That right there should tell you he has a huge following, similar to Kobe. Very hypocritical of you to shit on Iverson for him being on all these lists then go around and use those same lists to "prove" Kobe is top 3.

Those lists just prove Kobe has the same high amount of retard fans.

[John_Connor]

He doesn't have fans on his side, yet he's ranked #13 on a site where most people go to vote? That's extremely high for him. :lol

That right there should tell you he has a huge following, similar to Kobe. Very hypocritical of you to shit on Iverson for him being on all these lists then go around and use those same lists to "prove" Kobe is top 3.

Those lists just prove Kobe has the same high amount of retard fans.

like I said. only the top 10 is voted on by most people. usually people go to ranker and up vote their favorite guy and down vote the guys they hate. so it's a popularity contest but with the top 10 you at least have the usuals. like it's obvious Iverson has way more fans than Tim Duncan but he's still ahead so you can take this list seriously. it's obvious people are only using it as a top 10 reference and not a top 50 or 100. most real people don't have time to vote 50 or 100 people up and down. that's reserved for losers like you with no life in your absolute prime.


I remember being 30 and rarely posting on here. maybe for an hour a day tops. are you even trying to get married. you only have like 3 years left before you begin to decline. 33 is when I started getting wrinkles

I rarely talk kobe anymore and mainly focus on off topic stuff and luka now. but this is one of the final times I'm gonna give you a reason to live.

not every moment of your life needs to be about Kobe. you need to move on. you're not right in the head. find a new passion before it's too late. I wasted my prime on multiple relationships with younger women I knew I had no future with. you're wasting it on a guy that hasn't played competitively at a high level in almost a decade


at least when I trash lebron it's after he has a bad game. I'm at least being relevant and justified in my critiques. your obsession is unhealthy. if it hasn't gone away yet then it probably never will. like how long is too long. 20 years after.. 30 years after. when do you think you will find a new guy to talk about

I'm concerned for your future. you're not rich like me. you can't just roll out of bed when you're old and go on dates without tons of money.

find a wife dude. kobes all time ranking is probably gonna be set in stone cause of his death. he's been immortalized and lennoned/Tupac'd/Cobained into history. he can't be forgotten now. he will forever be attached to jordan. every year on the anniversary if his death and allstar weekend people will pay tribute to him. it will be automatic like clockwork

long after you're dead kobe will be Googled by young kids cause of this while your guy gets completely forgotten

kobe already won and you don't even realize it. him dying at 41 in a tragic accident was bigger than winning 8 rings in 8 finals as a guy the media wants people to forget.

this is why you're In overdrive lately. you see the writing on the wall.

this is also why I've moved on till today's retirement speech. I vow to never entertain another kobe all time discussion. my passion is luka now.

learn from this and find salvation

[SouBeachTalents]

He doesn't have fans on his side, yet he's ranked #13 on a site where most people go to vote? That's extremely high for him. :lol

That right there should tell you he has a huge following, similar to Kobe. Very hypocritical of you to shit on Iverson for him being on all these lists then go around and use those same lists to "prove" Kobe is top 3.

Those lists just prove Kobe has the same high amount of retard fans.
He literally can't conceive that popularity isn't equivalent to greatest.

If you made an online poll for greatest QB, I bet Joe Burrow & Matthew Stafford would get more votes than Johnny Unitas or Dan Marino. If you made one for greatest president, Obama & Trump would both definitely finish top 10, maybe even top 5. For greatest band, it wouldn't remotely surprise me if BTS got more votes than the Beatles.

Casuals will always go with whatever's most recent and the most popular, which is why their opinion can't be given any merit or taken seriously.

[1987_Lakers]

How much of a mental midget do you have to be to type all that out just because I pointed out how hypocritical you sound when defending Kobe? I've literally haven't discussed Kobe in about a month and the one time I do it's "Your obsession is unhealthy". When in reality it is you who has this insane obsession to a player nobody has in the top 10.

The fact that you typed that out just shows me how insecure you are about your idol and his standing in the all-time ranks, deep down you know he isn't as good as you think he is and it kills you and once you get hit back with logical responses to why he isn't as great as you say he is you throw a little temper tantrum like a little girl and blow up.

You have a very cynical mind, you think everyone here is miserable and crazy, but in reality all that is just projection. I don't think you yourself realize just how sick you are as a person.

[John_Connor]

you guys need to get a life. find a new passion. find God. find a new favorite player. find a new villain

kobes legendary status isn't going anywhere. you lost


I'm not discussing this anymore

[1987_Lakers]

you guys need to get a life. find a new passion. find God. find a new favorite player. find a new villain

kobes legendary status isn't going anywhere. you lost


I'm not discussing this anymore

https://media1.giphy.com/media/Dvw2lJqlTuJmo/giphy.gif?cid=790b76110761688bd4bc6af15528506e174c e638c8a38238&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g

[John_Connor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBugj3HNFbE


https://youtu.be/PbgKEjNBHqM

[Thenameless]

Lakers fan, Olajuwon. He had a greater ability to bring his team closer to a Championship without help from other superstars. Really, Otis Thorpe and Kenny Smith aren't close to prime Shaq and prime Gasol.

[John_Connor]

https://media1.giphy.com/media/Dvw2lJqlTuJmo/giphy.gif?cid=790b76110761688bd4bc6af15528506e174c e638c8a38238&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g

you won't be right in the head till you move on

lebron is in my top 3 all time and basically ignore threads about him these days. I no longer see him as a threat to kobe or Jordan's legacies. theyre both set in stone. lebrons a legend. don't care to hate him anymore. in fact I might buy more of his rookies seeing as they're all pretty low right now. even if lebron makes his teammates worse he still has the resume and respect from fans to be top 3 all time. why fight it. he's not winning anymore rings or mvps. it's time to move on. find a new favorite player like I have


https://youtu.be/1dCmFLxTSRw

[1987_Lakers]

Lakers fan, Olajuwon. He had a greater ability to bring his team closer to a Championship without help from other superstars. Really, Otis Thorpe and Kenny Smith aren't close to prime Shaq and prime Gasol.

I agree, nice to see a fellow Lakers fan see things objectively.

[John_Connor]

I agree, nice to see a fellow Lakers fan see things objectively.

you gotta stop this. I fear for your life. seriously. I might call a suicide prevention hotline if you're still doing this in another 10 years. I've moved on and lebrons career isn't even finished yet. I'm healthy in the head. why hate on a guy that's declining and obsolete. it's just sad. trying to reassure yourself daily that kobe is worse than everyone you can think of is derangement syndrome. you're like a tinfoil hat person or an anti Trumper

can the mods look into this guy please?

24/7 this has been your life for 15 years. Kobe kobe kobe....kobe kobe kobe


I'm not even gonna make fun of you anymore. just gonna be real. cabin fever is real. get a sun lamp. go for walks. do something

[1987_Lakers]

you gotta stop this. I fear for your life. seriously. I might call a suicide prevention hotline if you're still doing this in another 10 years. I've moved on and lebrons career isn't even finished yet. I'm healthy in the head. why hate on a guy that's declining and obsolete. it's just sad. trying to reassure yourself daily that kobe is worse than everyone you can think of is derangement syndrome. you're like a tinfoil hat person or an anti Trumper

can the mods look into this guy please?

24/7 this has been your life for 15 years. Kobe kobe kobe....kobe kobe kobe


I'm not even gonna make fun of you anymore. just gonna be real. cabin fever is real. get a sun lamp. go for walks. do something
Oh is Kenny having another meltdown?

https://media1.giphy.com/media/Dvw2lJqlTuJmo/giphy.gif?cid=790b76110761688bd4bc6af15528506e174c e638c8a38238&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g

[John_Connor]

Oh is Kenny having another meltdown?

https://media1.giphy.com/media/Dvw2lJqlTuJmo/giphy.gif?cid=790b76110761688bd4bc6af15528506e174c e638c8a38238&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g

https://voca.ro/1arf83hski66

[1987_Lakers]

"Allen Iverson sucks, just look at how his fans overrate him on these lists"

"Kobe is top 3, you need prove? Look at this list where Kobe is top 3 and Iverson is #5."

:roll:

[John_Connor]

"Allen Iverson sucks, just look at how his fans overrate him on these lists"

"Kobe is top 3, you need prove? Look at this list where Kobe is top 3 and Iverson is #5."

:roll:

https://voca.ro/11UyPFx5AyjK

[1987_Lakers]

https://voca.ro/11UyPFx5AyjK

*Kobe Bryant dies*

"I'm gonna create an account pretending to be Kobe's dead spirit for months" - Kenny

:roll:

[John_Connor]

*Kobe Bryant dies*

"I'm gonna create an account pretending to be Kobe's dead spirit for months" - Kenny

:roll:

dude this is all entertainment. I trash Kobe more than I worship him these days. I call him a rat faced rapist on here. the shits done bro. it's over lol nobodies bringing the dude down. watch il break my vow and make an anti Kobe thread just to f*ck with people

[k0kakw0rld]

kobe literally never even used those moves and had a full post game before going to work out with Hakeem lol

you know that was in like 2011 right. his career was basically over by then

kobes post fade/hook/reverse pivot/step through/off the backboard to himself/reverse baseline spin and many more moves were already in his arsenal

Still doesn't change the fact that this video exists. If you were to draft one player between Bean and Hakeem your first choice will be Kobe for real?

Hakeem was so much better you have no idea. And efficient on top of that. Carried nobodies to 2 championships.

[HoopsNY]

Kobe. Better scorer and obviously better playmaker. Kobe was a qb/wr while hakeem only a wr.

Better scorer? Not in the finals. Not in the playoffs. Not in game 7s or elimination games. He had almost as many 40 point playoff games despite playing in 60 fewer games.

Better playmaker? Sure, but he was a center. And Hakeem's passing was elite for centers during his time. He was a better passer than Shaq, Zo, Dikembe, Laimbeer, Moses, Ewing, Eaton, Parish, etc.

[HoopsNY]

It's basically impossible to average 5 BPG now

I used that as a rounded number. Turner averaged 3.4 last year. What's Hakeem averaging? 4? 4.5?

[HoopsNY]

You can make a solid case for both. But when both were at their peak Hakeem was a tier ahead of Kobe. I have them #10 and #11.

I'm assuming you have Shaq and Duncan in your top 10? If so, why are they above Hakeem?

[John8204]

I would go with Kobe...but I could understand Hakeem, Hakeem did more with less over a longer period of time. Both guys are in what I would call the 2nd tier I have my top eight (MJ, Wilt, Lebron, Bird, Kareem, Bill, Magic, Mikan) and then you have the 2nd tier guys (West, Oscar, Duncan, Kobe, Dr. J, Hondo, Hakeem, Moses). Any of those guys could fit in the 9-10 slots because they were all great they just weren't all-time greats. Kobe being in the 30K club gives him a bit of an edge, I also think he beats Hakeem 1 on 1 while Hakeem beats Kobe in team ball.

[HoopsNY]

Nah
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vww3lmLQQGM

Hakeem taught him moves not the other way around, fool!

Hakeem is higher and was the better player overall.

Hakeem also taught LeBron. The disrespect Hakeem gets is unreal, and I suppose it's because he had a mild character during his peak years. If he was like Barkley or noticeable like Iverson, then he'd probably get more attention and a a result, respect. Casual fans don't understand how great Hakeem was.

[1987_Lakers]

I'm assuming you have Shaq and Duncan in your top 10? If so, why are they above Hakeem?

They both simply had better careers. Although I think peak Hakeem was better than peak Duncan and comparable to peak Shaq, his resume comes up short. During Hakeem's prime he lost in the 1st round four years in a row, including missing the playoffs altogether in '92, yes you can say his team wasn't that good during that time, but there was a stretch in the early 90's where Hakeem's overall performance wasn't that great. By '92, both D-Rob & Ewing were considered better players. No doubt he greatly improved his legacy the next 3 years by having an all-time great peak and winning 2 championships, but that stretch from '88-'92 is hard for me to ignore and drops him some spots for me. If he was able to perform like he did in '93-'95 in a consistent basis throughout his career, you can make a great case for top 5.

[John_Connor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30RKfvVaqT0&ab_channel=snxe

[Rysio]

Better scorer? Not in the finals. Not in the playoffs. Not in game 7s or elimination games. He had almost as many 40 point playoff games despite playing in 60 fewer games.

Better playmaker? Sure, but he was a center. And Hakeem's passing was elite for centers during his time. He was a better passer than Shaq, Zo, Dikembe, Laimbeer, Moses, Ewing, Eaton, Parish, etc.

Kobe played with better talent so he didn't have to score as much as his potential was if kobe played on so many mediocre teams as hakeem his scoring stats would be different. When kobe had no scoring talent he was a 40-50 point threat.

[John8204]

They both simply had better careers. Although I think peak Hakeem was better than peak Duncan and comparable to peak Shaq, his resume comes up short. During Hakeem's prime he lost in the 1st round four years in a row, including missing the playoffs altogether in '92, yes you can say his team wasn't that good during that time, but there was a stretch in the early 90's where Hakeem's overall performance wasn't that great. By '92, both D-Rob & Ewing were considered better players. No doubt he greatly improved his legacy the next 3 years by having an all-time great peak and winning 2 championships, but that stretch from '88-'92 is hard for me to ignore and drops him some spots for me. If he was able to perform like he did in '93-'95 in a consistent basis throughout his career, you can make a great case for top 5.

I feel like when Hakeem played against Shaq that was peak Shaq who played offense and defense and was young and healthy. Duncan never really had a "peak" he was just rock solid for 20 seasons. Shaq was able to get most of his acclaim during the weakest period of the NBA in my lifetime, while Olajuwon played during the toughest era. so for me it's

1. Duncan
2. Hakeem
3. Shaq

[SouBeachTalents]

I feel like when Hakeem played against Shaq that was peak Shaq who played offense and defense and was young and healthy. Duncan never really had a "peak" he was just rock solid for 20 seasons. Shaq was able to get most of his acclaim during the weakest period of the NBA in my lifetime, while Olajuwon played during the toughest era. so for me it's

1. Duncan
2. Hakeem
3. Shaq
Nobody on earth would ever, EVER consider 1995 to be Shaq's peak over 2000, or any of the 3peat years. And Duncan clearly peaked around '01-'03, with '03 unanimously considered his peak season.

[John8204]

Nobody on earth would ever, EVER consider 1995 to be Shaq's peak over 2000, or any of the 3peat years. And Duncan clearly peaked around '01-'03, with '03 unanimously considered his peak season.

Shaq was 325 in Orlando and almost 400 in LA. He basically sat under the rim and was fed by Fisher and Kobe during his run. Which is fine it won titles he was able to succeed because of his weight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wj60RlGlkqc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igsb2tOqDJ8&t=212s

Shaq's physical prime was in Orlando he was a 300lber(Zion's size) that could actually move

[HoopsNY]

They both simply had better careers. Although I think peak Hakeem was better than peak Duncan and comparable to peak Shaq, his resume comes up short. During Hakeem's prime he lost in the 1st round four years in a row, including missing the playoffs altogether in '92, yes you can say his team wasn't that good during that time, but there was a stretch in the early 90's where Hakeem's overall performance wasn't that great. By '92, both D-Rob & Ewing were considered better players. No doubt he greatly improved his legacy the next 3 years by having an all-time great peak and winning 2 championships, but that stretch from '88-'92 is hard for me to ignore and drops him some spots for me. If he was able to perform like he did in '93-'95 in a consistent basis throughout his career, you can make a great case for top 5.

The '92 season he missed 12 games where the team was only 2-10 in that stretch. If Hakeem doesn't miss those games, the Rockets absolutely make the playoffs as they had a 47 win pace with him.

I get why you can't ignore his 1st round exits but consider the team, their record, and subsequent seeding.

1988: 46 wins (Ralph Sampson played in just 19 games and missed the playoffs), 6th seed
1989: 45 wins, 5th seed
1990: 41 wins, 8th seed
1991: 52 wins, 6th seed

Hakeem's numbers in those games: 26/14/2/2/4 on 53%

It's important to mention they lost to LA in both 1990 and 1991. But none of their seeds were higher than 5th, and they were even the 8th seed in 1990. But how about Duncan? He had three 1st round exits; take a look:

2009: 54 wins, 3rd seed (gentlemen's sweep)
2011: 61 wins, 1st seed
2015: 55 wins, 6th seed (The Clippers were the 3rd seed with 56 wins)

It's important to mention Duncan was injured in 2011, injuring his ankle in March. He averaged almost 16 PPG on 59% the remainder of the season, but played worse in the playoffs, putting up 13 PPG on 48%.

This isn't to say that the two situations are equivalent, but they are somewhat similar. SA would lose with more wins and being a higher seed, with a better supporting cast, and something you like to mention....a better coach.

But if you're basing things on careers, then yea, Hakeem has no argument.

[Round Mound]

Kobe = Better Career
Hakeem = Better Player

Same with Malone = Better Career
Barkley = Better Player

[Cali Syndicate]

Comfortably taking olajuwan over kobe to start a team. But kobe did have a better career and due to that would be ranked higher all time.

[John_Connor]

Kobe = Better Career
Hakeem = Better Player

Same with Malone = Better Career
Barkley = Better Player



https://youtu.be/jc49qu_p0Ec?t=264




















































https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbgKEjNBHqM

[John_Connor]

Comfortably taking olajuwan over kobe to start a team. But kobe did have a better career and due to that would be ranked higher all time.

i got len bias over both yo

f*ck outcomes bruh

[Cali Syndicate]

We never saw what len bias was capable of, so why even bring that up. Hakeem was a top tier 2 way center and won a ship with little help. Kobe's ships never came with little help. Overall career success has alot to do with circumstance. Imagine Kobe starting his career on a lottery team like Hakeem did, and Hakeem started his career with Magic. Obviously their career trajectory changes. Impact vs impact, Hakeem over kobe isn't some crazy unpopular opinion. Id also comfortably take Shaq over kobe .Or does that trigger you too?

[1987_Lakers]

We never saw what len bias was capable of, so why even bring that up. Hakeem was a top tier 2 way center and won a ship with little help. Kobe's ships never came with little help. Overall career success has alot to do with circumstance. Imagine Kobe starting his career on a lottery team like Hakeem did, and Hakeem started his career with Magic. Obviously their career trajectory changes. Impact vs impact, Hakeem over kobe isn't some crazy unpopular opinion. Id also comfortably take Shaq over kobe .Or does that trigger you too?

True, Hakeem was beating Shaq and Penny in the Finals, both of them were better than anything Hakeem had in '95, including past prime Drexler. Kobe either had the benefit of playing with Shaq, or Gasol who was the best 2nd option in the NBA.

[John_Connor]

True, Hakeem was beating Shaq and Penny in the Finals, both of them were better than anything Hakeem had in '95, including past prime Drexler. Kobe either had the benefit of playing with Shaq, or Gasol who was the best 2nd option in the NBA.

why are you still crying

[1987_Lakers]

https://c.tenor.com/WzIxOl5I3pgAAAAC/angry-wrestling.gif

:roll:

[John_Connor]

We never saw what len bias was capable of, so why even bring that up. Hakeem was a top tier 2 way center and won a ship with little help. Kobe's ships never came with little help. Overall career success has alot to do with circumstance. Imagine Kobe starting his career on a lottery team like Hakeem did, and Hakeem started his career with Magic. Obviously their career trajectory changes. Impact vs impact, Hakeem over kobe isn't some crazy unpopular opinion. Id also comfortably take Shaq over kobe .Or does that trigger you too?

len bias > Michelle Jordone

[90sgoat]

both higher than bran

This

[John_Connor]

:roll:

just noticed this. are you done crying

kobe had gasol. we know. you done? it's been 12 years

[1987_Lakers]

just noticed this. are you done crying

kobe had gasol. we know. you done? it's been 12 years


1. he rode the bench his first 2 years

2. he wasn't even the first option on his own team till his 7th year in the league

3. he was an inefficient chucker

4. he sucked in the finals

5. he was lucky to have shaq and gasol

6. he raped a b*tch

7. his career game winning shot percentage sucks

8. he cost the Lakers the 2004 finals

9. he choked the 2008 finals away

10. he stole michael Jordan's moves

11. gasol is the real 2010 finals mvp

12. he was the worst player ever his last 3 years in the league

13. he needed phil Jackson

14. he missed the playoffs in his prime

15. he quit game 7 vs Phoenix

16. he choked game 7 of the finals away

17. he's the worst elimination game player ever

18. he's barely top 15 all time

19. he never deserved his all defensive teams

20. he averaged 15ppg in the finals

21. he has a losing record vs lebron

[John_Connor]

1. he rode the bench his first 2 years

2. he wasn't even the first option on his own team till his 7th year in the league

3. he was an inefficient chucker

4. he sucked in the finals

5. he was lucky to have shaq and gasol

6. he raped a b*tch

7. his career game winning shot percentage sucks

8. he cost the Lakers the 2004 finals

9. he choked the 2008 finals away

10. he stole michael Jordan's moves

11. gasol is the real 2010 finals mvp

12. he was the worst player ever his last 3 years in the league

13. he needed phil Jackson

14. he missed the playoffs in his prime

15. he quit game 7 vs Phoenix

16. he choked game 7 of the finals away

17. he's the worst elimination game player ever

18. he's barely top 15 all time

19. he never deserved his all defensive teams

20. he averaged 15ppg in the finals

21. he has a losing record vs lebron

damn yo kobe sucks. why you always talking about that bum

[houston]

True, Hakeem was beating Shaq and Penny in the Finals, both of them were better than anything Hakeem had in '95, including past prime Drexler. Kobe either had the benefit of playing with Shaq, or Gasol who was the best 2nd option in the NBA.

Drexler was All-nba 3rd team along with Hakeem being all-nba 3rd team in 95. Plus people always Hakeem getting Shaq in 95 but no one never talks about Shaq killing Hakeem in 99 in the first round.

[SouBeachTalents]

Drexler was All-nba 3rd team along with Hakeem being all-nba 3rd team in 95. Plus people always Hakeem getting Shaq in 95 but no one never talks about Shaq killing Hakeem in 99 in the first round.
Hakeem was 36 years old and Shaq was in his prime in '99. What an asinine point :lol

[La Frescobaldi]

Hakeem was 36 years old and Shaq was in his prime in '99. What an asinine point :lol

True, true.
Everybody pointed out at the time that there was no comparison in his ability

age had caught Olajuwon and was dealing him severe blows every time he ran or jumped.

[HoopsNY]

Drexler was All-nba 3rd team along with Hakeem being all-nba 3rd team in 95. Plus people always Hakeem getting Shaq in 95 but no one never talks about Shaq killing Hakeem in 99 in the first round.

Maybe because Hakeem was 36 years old by that point and the NBA had a much more aggressive approach to calling Shaq's fouls as he really started to bully his way down low.

Look at Shaq's top 5 playoffs by FTA in his career:

1999: 14.8 FTA
2000: 12.9 FTA
2008: 12.8 FTA
2001: 12.5 FTA
1995: 12.4 FTA

Look which year is #1. To give some perspective, he averaged nearly 15 attempts against Houston. Hakeem barely played 30 mpg during that series putting up nearly 5 fouls a game.

[1987_Lakers]

This thread reminded me just how crazy Kenny was.

[Axe]

1. he rode the bench his first 2 years

2. he wasn't even the first option on his own team till his 7th year in the league

3. he was an inefficient chucker

4. he sucked in the finals

5. he was lucky to have shaq and gasol

6. he raped a b*tch

7. his career game winning shot percentage sucks

8. he cost the Lakers the 2004 finals

9. he choked the 2008 finals away

10. he stole michael Jordan's moves

11. gasol is the real 2010 finals mvp

12. he was the worst player ever his last 3 years in the league

13. he needed phil Jackson

14. he missed the playoffs in his prime

15. he quit game 7 vs Phoenix

16. he choked game 7 of the finals away

17. he's the worst elimination game player ever

18. he's barely top 15 all time

19. he never deserved his all defensive teams

20. he averaged 15ppg in the finals

21. he has a losing record vs lebron
3ball?

[Lebron23]

Both are borderline top 10 player of all time. As the years goes by Hakeem's accomplishments are starting to aged well than Kobe.