Michael Jordan vs Wilt Chamberlain

[GrayGoat]

Who was the better volume scorer? I give the edge to Wilt

[Full Court]

Who was the better volume scorer? I give the edge to Wilt

Wilt scored 100 points in a game, scored 70+ a bunch of times, and averaged over 50 ppg in a season. Nobody was a better volume scorer than Wilt.

However, Jordan has the most scoring titles and if I'm not mistaken, has the highest career PPG average of all time.

Jordan and Wilt are definitely the two GOAT scorers. By a wide margin.

[GrayGoat]

Wilt scored 100 points in a game, scored 70+ a bunch of times, and averaged over 50 ppg in a season. Nobody was a better volume scorer than Wilt.

However, Jordan has the most scoring titles and if I'm not mistaken, has the highest career PPG average of all time.

Jordan and Wilt are definitely the two GOAT scorers. By a wide margin.

True but I don’t think scoring titles existed for Wilt

[RogueBorg]

Who was the better volume scorer? I give the edge to Wilt

Wilt

However, I will say this. Back in 2006, had Kobe played at the same pace as 1961-'62 and played all 48 minutes like Wilt had, he would have went over 100 points. Or to put it another way, had Wilt played at the more current eras pace, he wouldn't have put up the numbers he did.

Regardless, it's not Wilt's fault for playing in the era he played. He gets all the credit in the world for putting up the numbers he did. There were many other players playing in Wilt's era who didn't come close to putting up the same numbers.

[Full Court]

True but I don’t think scoring titles existed for Wilt

If I'm not mistaken, I believe Wilt led the league in scoring 7 years. Which to me is the same as 7 scoring titles.

Keep in mind though, Wilt did all his scoring feats while also setting all kinds of rebound records.

[3ba11]

Jordan could win with high scoring and Wilt couldn't.

Wilt needs a Wilt-centric offense to get a lot of points - it's similar to Lebron needing to dominate the ball - the weaker brand requires more supporting talent and usually loses at high scoring levels (therefore needs equal-scoring partners to win)

Otoh, Jordan needed the least help because he could get scoring champ production within a championship brand of ball - everyone else had to tone it down to win and couldn't win as scoring champ.. The only exceptions are Kareem/Shaq in their peak seasons of 71' and 00'.

[Airupthere]

Wilt takes this. We don't always have to trash other greats like branstans do with any other player not named lebron and pippen.

[3ba11]

It takes a lot more skill to average 30 while winning titles

Kawhi and Kobe (1 each) and MJ (6 times) are the only guys that average 30 while winning titles, aside from Shaq and Hakeem in their peak season

[Full Court]

It takes a lot more skill to score a lot while winning titles

Kawhi and Kobe (1 each) and MJ (6 times) are the only guys that average 30 while winning titles, aside from Shaq and Hakeem in their peak season

This is true, and that's why I have Jordan #1 all time. When it comes to individual dominance, Wilt blows everyone out of the water. When it comes to team accomplishments and winning, Russell is unmatched. Jordan is the best combination of those two things of everyone who has ever played the game so far.

[SouBeachTalents]

It takes a lot more skill to average 30 while winning titles

Kawhi and Kobe (1 each) and MJ (6 times) are the only guys that average 30 while winning titles, aside from Shaq and Hakeem in their peak season
Wrong again. Kareem, LeBron & Giannis did it too, and Shaq did it twice.

[coastalmarker99]

I don't think there was any question that Chamberlain could have put most of the scoring records out of reach such as career PPG had he not changed his playstyle after 1966 to focus on becoming more of an all-around player.






As Despite himself dramatically cutting back his volume scoring ways from the '67 thru the '69 seasons.





In every one of those seasons, he still had the league-high game (several in 1968.)




And when his new coach asked him to become a scorer again before the start of the 1970 season, Wilt went out and led the league in scoring, at 32.2 ppg on (.57.9 shooting) in the first nine games.


Unfortunately, he injured his knee and was never the same again.




Still, as an example, in 10 of his 11 H2H's with 6-11 HOFer Bob Lanier (in his last two seasons).



Chamberlain averaged 24.5 ppg on .78.3 shooting.



Clearly, had he just overpowered his peers in his last 3-4 years as he should have he could have scored much more even at that stage of his career.

[3ba11]

Wrong again. Kareem, LeBron & Giannis did it too, and Shaq did it twice.


Lebron's run was won via super-team talent

He never won by developing the brand of ball in the league like all organic winners do, so he never learned to win (brand of ball, organic) and only learned to team-hop (talent-based winning)

[1987_Lakers]

Lebron's run was won via super-team talent

He never won by developing the brand of ball in the league like all organic winners do, so he never learned to win (brand of ball, organic) and only learned to team-hop (talent-based winning)

MJ's run was won via expansion era NBA.

He never won by brand of ball like facing actual competition, like real winners Magic & Bird do, so he never learned to win (brand of ball, non expansion) and only learned to beat up weak teams. (non competition winning)

[coastalmarker99]

A fun fact is that Wilt played the second half of his career without having a 30+ ppg season and still finished with a 30.1 ppg average.


that should tell you just how dominant he was as a scorer earlier in his career.


Wilt's role changed after his seventh season -- earlier in his career, he was told to score; during the second half of his career (when he had more talented teams), he was asked to shoot more selectively, pass more, and focus more on defence (basically, the Bill Russell role).


If Wilt had extended his scoring dominance a few more seasons, or he was consciously concerned with someone catching his scoring totals.


He would have put it so far out of reach that Kareem would have never caught him, and Jordan would not have the highest scoring average for a career.


They only caught Wilt because Wilt took his foot off the gas.

Hell when Rick Barry won the scoring title in 1967 with a 35.6 ppg (which BTW, was the highest full-time non-Wilt average during Wilt's 14 seasons in the league.)


Even Barry acknowledged that he only won it simply because Wilt didn't want it.



As everyone in the league knew that Wilt could have easily won it had he been so inclined.


As he actually put up the league-high game that year in 1967 with a 58 point game on 26-34 shooting from the field.


He also had three more 40+ point games (41 on 16-17 shooting, 43 on 20-28 shooting, and that 42 point game on 18-18 shooting.)

[3ba11]

MJ's run was won via expansion era NBA.

He never won by brand of ball like facing actual competition, like real winners Magic & Bird do, so he never learned to win (brand of ball, non expansion) and only learned to beat up weak teams. (non competition winning)


Dirk waited 10 years to develop the perfect chemistry.. The 04' Pistons won via chemistry and brand of ball, not superior talent.. Similarly, other organic winners like the Spurs, Warriors and 90's Bulls developed the best brand of ball in the league.

That's how organic teams win - by developing the best strategy/brand - Lebron never learned superior brand, so he couldn't win organically and had to team-hop (talent-based winning.. all-star team strategy).. He literally never learned to win (brand of ball) and only learned to team-hop (talent-based winning).

Btw, MJ's own team was affected by expansion, so the only other scoring option on his team was a pippen instead of juggernaut high producers like Worthy and Kareem.. So everything evens out - it was 2-star vs 2-star format in the 90's, which is the same as super-team vs super-team (80's)

[Full Court]

MJ's run was won via expansion era NBA.

He never won by brand of ball like facing actual competition, like real winners Magic & Bird do, so he never learned to win (brand of ball, non expansion) and only learned to beat up weak teams. (non competition winning)

Of all the nonsensical arguments used to try to discredit Jordan, the expansion era is one of the dumbest. You expect people to buy the assertion that expanding the league made every team in the NBA worse, except for the Bulls. Good luck trying to sell that.

[1987_Lakers]

Of all the nonsensical arguments used to try to discredit Jordan, the expansion era is one of the dumbest. You expect people to buy the assertion that expanding the league made every team in the NBA worse, except for the Bulls. Good luck trying to sell that.

You really took my post literally? LOL

[Full Court]

You really took my post literally? LOL

Yes, I did. Was it not a serious post?

[GrayGoat]

A fun fact is that Wilt played the second half of his career without having a 30+ ppg season and still finished with a 30.1 ppg average.


that should tell you just how dominant he was as a scorer earlier in his career.


Wilt's role changed after his seventh season -- earlier in his career, he was told to score; during the second half of his career (when he had more talented teams), he was asked to shoot more selectively, pass more, and focus more on defence (basically, the Bill Russell role).


If Wilt had extended his scoring dominance a few more seasons, or he was consciously concerned with someone catching his scoring totals.


He would have put it so far out of reach that Kareem would have never caught him, and Jordan would not have the highest scoring average for a career.


They only caught Wilt because Wilt took his foot off the gas.

Hell when Rick Barry won the scoring title in 1967 with a 35.6 ppg (which BTW, was the highest full-time non-Wilt average during Wilt's 14 seasons in the league.)


Even Barry acknowledged that he only won it simply because Wilt didn't want it.



As everyone in the league knew that Wilt could have easily won it had he been so inclined.


As he actually put up the league-high game that year in 1967 with a 58 point game on 26-34 shooting from the field.


He also had three more 40+ point games (41 on 16-17 shooting, 43 on 20-28 shooting, and that 42 point game on 18-18 shooting.)
3ball?

[3ba11]

3ball?


Wilt has a lot in his favor including a tougher format (no 3-point line/no spacing), plus he's the only guy above 30 ppg like MJ.. He also scored easier in more spots due to his goat size..

So I think it's subjective - I don't think there's an objective answer.. Jordan's advantage was that he was obviously a guard and therefore goat-level perimeter player that didn't have to catch the ball closer to the rim or paint.. However, Jordan's unique difference was that he supplemented goat perimeter scoring ability with goat post dominance - it's likely that Jordan had the most post field goals during the 96-98' seasons because Shaq/Robinson didn't play full seasons and Hakeem's volume was down in 97 & 98... Jordan was a goat perimeter and post scoring threat

Jordan also could achieve goat scoring amounts while winning titles (within the best brand of ball), which Wilt couldn't do nearly as well (no one could).

[GrayGoat]

Wilt has a lot in his favor including a tougher format (no 3-point line/no spacing), plus he's the only guy above 30 ppg like MJ.. He also scored easier in more spots due to his goat size..

So I think it's subjective - I don't think there's an objective answer.. Jordan's advantage was that he was obviously a guard and therefore goat-level perimeter player that didn't have to catch the ball closer to the rim or paint.. However, Jordan's unique difference was that he supplemented goat perimeter scoring ability with goat post dominance - it's likely that Jordan had the most post field goals during the 96-98' seasons because Shaq/Robinson didn't play full seasons and Hakeem's volume was down in 97 & 98... Jordan was a goat perimeter and post scoring threat

Jordan also could achieve goat scoring amounts while winning titles (within the best brand of ball), which Wilt couldn't do nearly as well (no one could).
'The difference between you and me is that they had to change the rules, so I couldn't dominate. They changed the rules for you so that you could dominate. ' -Wilt

[Thenameless]

Wilt is the better volume scorer.

He's got the best scoring seasons by far.

He outright has the top 4 scoring seasons of all time, and 5 of the top 6. This is not close.

[TheGoatest]

MJ's run was won via expansion era NBA.

He never won by brand of ball like facing actual competition, like real winners Magic & Bird do, so he never learned to win (brand of ball, non expansion) and only learned to beat up weak teams. (non competition winning)

Some Jordan extremists/alts actually believe that Jordan mysteriously going from losing to the same team three playoffs in a row to winning three championships in a row is because Jordan suddenly "learned to win", and this extreme contrast from losing to winning has nothing to do with the blatant weakening of competition that took place with the 80s powerhouses becoming washed and leaving the league to be exploited by a team that would only be the 4th best team of the 80s. :oldlol:

[Axe]

You really took my post literally? LOL
:roll:

[Axe]

Some Jordan extremists/alts actually believe that Jordan mysteriously going from losing to the same team three playoffs in a row to winning three championships in a row is because Jordan suddenly "learned to win", and this extreme contrast from losing to winning has nothing to do with the blatant weakening of competition that took place with the 80s powerhouses becoming washed and leaving the league to be exploited by a team that would only be the 4th best team of the 80s. :oldlol:
Lol it was obviously because of the great scottie pippen who you praise that much despite also playing the watered-down weak 90s.

[La Frescobaldi]

Lol it was obviously because of the great scottie pippen who you praise that much despite also playing the watered-down weak 90s.

Pj and scottie showed up and won a bunch of rings.

one on one game to 10 mike gets a couple jumpers. game to 21, score W 21, M 5

[Elosha]

Yes, I did. Was it not a serious post?

He was parodying 3ba11's writing style.

[Gohan]

It takes a lot more skill to average 30 while winning titles

Kawhi and Kobe (1 each) and MJ (6 times) are the only guys that average 30 while winning titles, aside from Shaq and Hakeem in their peak season

Give iverson credit if he wouldnt have had to face shaq and kobe he would have done it too

[Full Court]

He was parodying 3ba11's writing style.

Well his fellow Bronies regurgitate that argument all the time. One of them, "expansionera", even has a user name devoted to it. So if it was sarcasm, it was far from obvious.

[Elosha]

^I know. Not saying it had any merit, just pointing out his M.O.