Comparing GOAT PFs in playoffs (Duncan/KG/Dirk/Malone/Chuck/McHale/Giannis/Davis)

[Im Still Ballin]

*Per 36 minutes and per 100 possessions to adjust for role.

All statistics are presented as per 36 minutes and per 100 possessions. This is important because it helps adjust for the role players played on their respective teams. Kevin Garnett played his role in 2008 and onwards in Boston, as did Duncan and the rest at certain points in their careers.

One outlying issue is the increase in scoring production from Giannis and Davis. Players from the current era appear to be scoring more relative to minutes played. This seems to be consistent across the board, so it's not absolutely indicative of AD and Giannis being superior scorers.


Duncan:

PER 36

- 19.9 PPG // 11.0 RPG // 2.9 APG // 0.6 SPG // 2.2 BPG // 2.4 TOPG
- 54.8% TS
- 50.2% eFG

PER 100 POSSESSIONS

- 29.7 PPG // 16.4 RPG // 4.4 APG // 1.0 SPG // 3.3 BPG // 3.6 TOPG
- 54.8% TS
- 50.2% eFG


Garnett:

PER 36

- 17.7 PPG // 10.5 RPG // 3.2 APG // 1.2 SPG // 1.3 BPG // 2.3 TOPG
- 52.5% TS
- 48.1% eFG

PER 100 POSSESSIONS

- 26.8 PPG // 15.8 RPG // 4.9 APG // 1.8 SPG // 1.9 BPG // 3.5 TOPG
- 52.5% TS
- 48.1% eFG


Dirk:

PER 36

- 22.4 PPG // 8.8 RPG // 2.2 APG // 0.9 SPG // 0.8 BPG // 2.0 TOPG
- 57.7% TS
- 49.0% eFG

PER 100 POSSESSIONS

- 32.8 PPG // 12.9 RPG // 3.2 APG // 1.3 SPG // 1.2 BPG // 2.9 TOPG
- 57.7% TS
- 49.0% eFG


Malone:

PER 36

- 21.7 PPG // 9.4 RPG // 2.8 APG // 1.2 SPG // 0.6 BPG // 2.5 TOPG
- 52.6% TS
- 46.3% eFG

PER 100 POSSESSIONS

- 32.6 PPG // 14.1 RPG // 4.2 APG // 1.8 SPG // 0.9 BPG // 3.8 TOPG
- 52.6% TS
- 46.3% eFG


Barkley:

PER 36

- 21.0 PPG // 11.7 RPG // 3.6 APG // 1.4 SPG // 0.8 BPG // 2.6 TOPG
- 58.4% TS
- 53.0% eFG

PER 100 POSSESSIONS

- 30.0 PPG // 16.7 RPG // 5.1 APG // 2.0 SPG // 1.1 BPG // 3.7 TOPG
- 58.4% TS
- 53.0% eFG


McHale:

PER 36

- 20.0 PPG // 7.9 RPG // 1.7 APG // 0.4 SPG // 1.8 BPG // 2.1 TOPG
- 61.8% TS
- 56.3% eFG

PER 100 POSSESSIONS

- 27.6 PPG // 10.9 RPG // 2.4 APG // 0.6 SPG // 2.4 BPG // 2.8 TOPG
- 61.8% TS
- 56.3% eFG


Giannis:

PER 36

- 25.7 PPG // 11.6 RPG // 4.9 APG // 0.9 SPG // 1.1 BPG // 3.0 TOPG
- 58.2% TS
- 55.7% eFG

PER 100 POSSESSIONS

- 35.6 PPG // 16.0 RPG // 6.8 APG // 1.5 SPG // 1.9 BPG // 4.1 TOPG
- 58.2% TS
- 55.7% eFG


Davis:

PER 36

- 26.6 PPG // 10.0 RPG // 2.7 APG // 1.3 SPG // 1.8 BPG // 2.4 TOPG
- 62.5% TS
- 54.8% eFG

PER 100 POSSESSIONS

- 36.3 PPG // 13.7 RPG // 3.7 APG // 1.8 SPG // 2.4 BPG // 3.2 TOPG
- 62.5% TS
- 54.8% eFG

[Im Still Ballin]

To me, the biggest stats that stand out are Malone and Garnett's shooting percentages. They both averaged below average compared to the season average, as well as their regular season performance.

[90sgoat]

Duncan and Davis are centers to me.

What surprises me the most here is Kevin McHale, very good stats.

Otherwise it confirms that the GOAT PG imo is Barkley, then Malone, then Dirk, then KG.

Also not sure which position to put Giannis.

[jalbert009]

Stats dont alway tell the whole story. It doesnt take into account the level of competition. If the opposing team had great Centers and Power Forwards defending the paint then shooting percentages go down and scoring is lower. This is especially true for players from 00s and older.

[Im Still Ballin]

Duncan and Davis are centers to me.

What surprises me the most here is Kevin McHale, very good stats.

Otherwise it confirms that the GOAT PG imo is Barkley, then Malone, then Dirk, then KG.

Also not sure which position to put Giannis.

McHale's game was made for playoff basketball.

[ArbitraryWater]

Duncan and Davis are centers to me.

What surprises me the most here is Kevin McHale, very good stats.

Otherwise it confirms that the GOAT PG imo is Barkley, then Malone, then Dirk, then KG.

Also not sure which position to put Giannis.

How exactly would you look at this and confirm Malone is better than Dirk

[Phoenix]

Dirk is like 25/10( off the top of my head) in the playoffs. 2007 aside, dude more than held up his end under the bright lights, culminating with 2011.

[Round Mound]

Barkley in the play-offs: 23.0 PPG on 51% (Two-Pointers: 22.5 PPG on 55.13% Two-Point FG taking 14.5 Two-Point FGAs PG), 12.9 RPG, 3.9 APG, 1.6 SPG and 0.9 BPG

[Gohan]

Dirk is like 25/10( off the top of my head) in the playoffs. 2007 aside, dude more than held up his end under the bright lights, culminating with 2011.

thank you, put some respect on dirks name. one of the greatest to ever do it

[Phoenix]

thank you, put some respect on dirks name. one of the greatest to ever do it

Only a complete moron would think otherwise.

[Round Mound]

GOAT PF is Prime/Peak Chuck!

[999Guy]

To me, the biggest stats that stand out are Malone and Garnett's shooting percentages. They both averaged below average compared to the season average, as well as their regular season performance.

KG’s peak TS% wasn’t high to begin with. But offensive impact in the RS was very high for years.


2-3 percent is just not a big difference at all in quality. Defenses didn’t figure outor guard him differently in the playoffs.

Giannis otoh, actually did get defended like a gimmick player on offense multiple times.

The thing that made KG impactful on offense was his skills and play style along with the production. He basically played like Jokic, spaced out the 3P line essentially making super long 2’s on volume, screening extremely well, and is the best passer here.

KG’s scoring efficiency drop isn’t a big deal at all.

Comparisons like this is gonna favor the athletic freaks like Giannis, Barkley and Davis who has raw scoring coming easy to them. But they didn’t really play exceptional play styles with their athleticism. Well did for one year in 2020 and he possibly has the highest peak somehow which is shocking to even me, but before that Davis never passed the ball and his defense isn’t amazing like Duncan or KG’s so the box score still overrated him.

Duncan’s overall best here. Davis, Barkley, and Giannis slightly overrated.


Malone properly rated.


KG underrated by this

Why’d you put Mchale

[Im Still Ballin]

GOAT PF is Prime/Peak Chuck!

He was a fantastic ball player.

[Round Mound]

He was a fantastic ball player.

:applause::rockon::cheers:

[Pointguard]

To me, the biggest stats that stand out are Malone and Garnett's shooting percentages. They both averaged below average compared to the season average, as well as their regular season performance.

Garnett rarely ever played for a great offensive coach and didn't have the help the other guys did. Malone's teams ran the same play over and over again. In the playoffs you play the better defensive teams and these two limitations mean a ton. Karl's RS and PS numbers are eerily similar. Even down to FT's. KG's are pretty close as well. Duncan and Dirk's numbers change a lot. Dirk gets fouled a lot more in the playoffs so his TS% goes up as well. Duncan gets stationed closer to the basket. So there is definitely a role change. There are three different Barkleys as the above situations changed with him. As Giannis gets better at both lines his numbers will dwarf everybodies here. He goes harder to the basket than all of them and is the best finisher as well. And he is flat out just more active than all of them. Giannis coach didn't really have a response to triple teams on him at one point. KG's coaches just had terrible offensive sets. For me, they are big men and whoever is best at the basket is the best player. Its Duncan and Giannis.

[Im Still Ballin]

Garnett rarely ever played for a great offensive coach and didn't have the help the other guys did. Malone's teams ran the same play over and over again. In the playoffs you play the better defensive teams and these two limitations mean a ton. Karl's RS and PS numbers are eerily similar. Even down to FT's. KG's are pretty close as well. Duncan and Dirk's numbers change a lot. Dirk gets fouled a lot more in the playoffs so his TS% goes up as well. Duncan gets stationed closer to the basket. So there is definitely a role change. There are three different Barkleys as the above situations changed with him. As Giannis gets better at both lines his numbers will dwarf everybodies here. He goes harder to the basket than all of them and is the best finisher as well. And he is flat out just more active than all of them. Giannis coach didn't really have a response to triple teams on him at one point. KG's coaches just had terrible offensive sets. For me, they are big men and whoever is best at the basket is the best player. Its Duncan and Giannis.
Is Duncan better than Barkley and McHale in the paint?

[Pointguard]

Is Duncan better than Barkley and McHale in the paint?

They were more skilled than Duncan in the low post and I think tops among all PFs. They were not as clear headed, aware, energetic and on point decision makers for their teams as Duncan was. Duncan in the post was more consistent, more responsible, bigger and was more efficient. Barkley and McHale are not a given to have even four good games in a series and are easily the worse at consistentcy of the great PF's. If you hear that a great PF had three bad games in the playoffs its, McHale or Barkley. Garnett, Duncan, Dirk and Giannis could elevate team play because of the consistent intensity and output. Teams knew what to expect from them.

Yes, Duncan was better than them in the paint, even offensively.

[Baller789]

They were more skilled than Duncan in the low post and I think tops among all PFs. They were not as clear headed, aware, energetic and on point decision makers for their teams as Duncan was. Duncan in the post was more consistent, more responsible, bigger and was more efficient. Barkley and McHale are not a given to have even four good games in a series and are easily the worse at consistentcy of the great PF's. If you hear that a great PF had three bad games in the playoffs its, McHale or Barkley. Garnett, Duncan, Dirk and Giannis could elevate team play because of the consistent intensity and output. Teams knew what to expect from them.

Yes, Duncan was better than them in the paint, even offensively.

I remember what an old man Duncan did to a prime Cousins when get got pi$$ed.

Tim just doesn't 'force' things. His offensive ppg is misleading, his impact offensively is so much more than numbers.

[Round Mound]

Tim Duncan was great in the post but not as effective as Barkley or McHale. These two are the best in the post offensively. Tim Duncan was a better rebounder and passer than McHale. Defensively McHale could guard SFs pretty well i don't think Duncan could. Barkley was a better scorer, post player, had more range, rebounder, passer, ballhandler, stealer etc than Duncan. Duncan was a better rim protector, defender and shot blocker though.

[Pointguard]

Tim Duncan was great in the post but not as effective as Barkley or McHale. These two are the best in the post offensively. Tim Duncan was a better rebounder and passer than McHale. Defensively McHale could guard SFs pretty well i don't think Duncan could. Barkley was a better scorer, post player, had more range, rebounder, passer, ballhandler, stealer etc than Duncan. Duncan was a better rim protector, defender and shot blocker though.

I don't know if its fair to compare Duncan to McHale. Duncan carried his franchise for 15 years and there were years when he lead his team in the playoffs in every major category while winning it all. He rarely wasn't the leading scorer and rebounder practically every year. McHale might have had 1 year when he was the leading scorer in the playoffs due to injury. And Duncan was the better scorer, passer and rebounder in the playoffs. Its not right.

Barkley could do a lot of things very well. And was one of the most explosive of PFs as well. Scoring wise Barkley has the playoff scoring edge - I doubt he has the scoring edge in the 4th quarter tho. Duncan was very clutch and knew how to win games. Duncan made the right pass at the right time and kept his teammates in the game. So I am not conceding Barkley has him in passing in the playoffs. Ball handler? Duncan was more steady, committed less turnovers and was just better at knowing his limitations. If the game is close and an important game in the series... I rather have Duncan in the post as well.

[Round Mound]

I don't know if its fair to compare Duncan to McHale. Duncan carried his franchise for 15 years and there were years when he lead his team in the playoffs in every major category while winning it all. He rarely wasn't the leading scorer and rebounder practically every year. McHale might have had 1 year when he was the leading scorer in the playoffs due to injury. And Duncan was the better scorer, passer and rebounder in the playoffs. Its not right.

Barkley could do a lot of things very well. And was one of the most explosive of PFs as well. Scoring wise Barkley has the playoff scoring edge - I doubt he has the scoring edge in the 4th quarter tho. Duncan was very clutch and knew how to win games. Duncan made the right pass at the right time and kept his teammates in the game. So I am not conceding Barkley has him in passing in the playoffs. Ball handler? Duncan was more steady, committed less turnovers and was just better at knowing his limitations. If the game is close and an important game in the series... I rather have Duncan in the post as well.

Its tuff to compare McHale with any other PF because after 1987 with the injury he was still great but not onstoppable like before. Duncan wasn't close to the scorer Barkley and McHale where. Barkley score near 22 PPG on 58% FG while taking only 12-13 field goal attempts per game. Duncan scored like 20 PPG on about 50%. So inside the 3-point line Barkley was the more diverse scorer and in the paint he was Shaq-like. Duncan was a better shot blocker, post defender and rim protector i'll give you that. Barkley played through alot of injuries in his last 6 seasons that's why his stats took curve down later in his career. When Chuck was healthy he was the most onstoppable forward in the game.

[rmt]

I don't know why McHale is on this list - he was never the primary focus of opponent's defense. Sure the moves are beautiful and skilled but without the defensive focus being on him.

Sometimes, I hear the praise for Jokic and Embiid and I acknowledge that they are skilled but the competition (at their position) sucks these days. No wonder Embiid sometimes looks so disengaged - is there anyone out there that he has to fear defensively - he knows he can get just about any shot he wants. I wonder what they'd be like back in the heyday of the big man - going up against Russell, Wilt, Hakeem, Shaq, DRob, etc.

And please, what's his name, don't mention that undeserved 3 time DPOY.

[Im Still Ballin]

I don't know why McHale is on this list - he was never the primary focus of opponent's defense. Sure the moves are beautiful and skilled but without the defensive focus being on him.

Sometimes, I hear the praise for Jokic and Embiid and I acknowledge that they are skilled but the competition (at their position) sucks these days. No wonder Embiid sometimes looks so disengaged - is there anyone out there that he has to fear defensively - he knows he can get just about any shot he wants. I wonder what they'd be like back in the heyday of the big man - going up against Russell, Wilt, Hakeem, Shaq, DRob, etc.

And please, what's his name, don't mention that undeserved 3 time DPOY.

:facepalm

Tell me you haven't watched much '80s Celtics without telling me you haven't watched much '80s Celtics.

[rmt]

:facepalm

Tell me you haven't watched much '80s Celtics without telling me you haven't watched much '80s Celtics.

I watched as much 80s Celtics as there was on TV at the time.

[Im Still Ballin]

I watched as much 80s Celtics as there was on TV at the time.

Trying to discredit McHale for the reason you've provided is ludicrous. He faced as many double and triple teams as anybody down in the low post. His high field goal percentage/efficiency was a function of his skill, not the result of easy shots.

He was simply just that good from the pivot.