So it's settled... Kobe 5.... Lebron 4

[3ba11]

History will show that there's no clear-cut argument over Kobe.. or Magic

That is all

[John_Connor]

truthfully without colluding lebron is basically a chris webber/shawn kemp hybrid

[warriorfan]

truthfully without colluding lebron is basically a chris webber/shawn kemp hybrid

Corey Maggette with slightly better passing

[Gohan]

Corey Maggette with slightly better passing

Antawn jamison with worse scoring ability

[ShawkFactory]

History will show that there's no clear-cut argument over Kobe.. or Magic

That is all

History will show that Lebron isn't definitively better than 2 of the greatest to ever play?! Oh no...

[SouBeachTalents]

History will show that Lebron isn't definitively better than 2 of the greatest to ever play?! Oh no...
The truth is though, it will :lol LeBron is going to be ranked ahead of Kobe on virtually every all time list for the rest of time, ditto Magic as well.

Don't forget the blatant hypocrisy of him claiming that ring count puts Kobe ahead of LeBron, but then ranking the likes of Kawhi, Giannis & Dirk ahead of Shaq, Magic & Kareem.

[Wally450]

Damn, so Horry>Jordan?

[Airupthere]

Kobe mainly just had Shaq to get his 5. Lebron had an army of stars behind him to get 4/10. 2016 is negated by 2011. Bubble should not be considered legit. So really, Lebron did 2/4 with a superteam.

[Wally450]

Kobe mainly just had Shaq to get his 5. Lebron had an army of stars behind him to get 4/10. 2016 is negated by 2011. Bubble should not be considered legit. So really, Lebron did 2/4 with a superteam.

Kobe shot his team out of the 2004 Finals. That should negate one. He also lost by 39 in a closeout game in 2008. That's another one negated. Had Shaq for 3. He really has 1 when you think about it.

[RogueBorg]

History will show that Lebron isn't definitively better than 2 of the greatest to ever play?! Oh no...

Yeah really, I wish that was me.

[Gohan]

Damn, so Horry>Jordan?

I swear i cringe everytime someone tries the old horry example just like how i cringe at all of your hoes

[sdot_thadon]

Holy outdated database Batman! Man, lol Lebron formed a clear case over those 2....years ago. So unless time runs backwards he will always have a clear case over them, especially Kobe. That ship sailed and found the new world a century ago.

[coastalmarker99]

4 FMVP's > 2 FMVP's

4 MVP's > 1 MVP

10 finals > 7 finals

174 playoff wins > 135 playoff wins

36 K points>33 K points




There is no case you can make at this point for Kobe being ranked over Lebron.

[Axe]

Damn, so Horry>Jordan?
Meltdown.

[ImKobe]

You need 5+ rings to be in the GOAT convo. Bran is in the Bird/Shaq tier while the real winners (MJ, Kareem, Russell, Kobe, Magic, Duncan) are above him.

[Axe]

You need 5+ rings to be in the GOAT convo. Bran is in the Bird/Shaq tier while the real winners (MJ, Kareem, Russell, Kobe, Magic, Duncan) are above him.
So john havlicek trumps most of them too? Ah ok.

[HoopsNY]

I hope LeBron wins the chip this year just to piss off 3ball.

[coastalmarker99]

You need 5+ rings to be in the GOAT convo. Bran is in the Bird/Shaq tier while the real winners (MJ, Kareem, Russell, Kobe, Magic, Duncan) are above him.


For me, individual dominance puts you in the Goat Convo not rings as they are team-based and also luck based.

I look back at my career...and there were five 7th games in playoff series. Five times I lost four of them by a total of nine points.

Now think about that nine points going the other way, and I might have had four or five more championship rings.


So I sometimes get a little frustrated when I hear people talk about, "Yeah, well you only won two rings Wilt."

I could have won seven, but I've been the same player.

When (John) Paxson goes out and shoots a 3-point shot that wins the game for Chicago (in 1993), no one takes anything away from Jordan because he just won the championship. But if Paxson missed that shot, they would have lost that championship.

Well, that has happened to me five times... and that's frustrating.

[Axe]

I hope LeBron wins the chip this year just to piss off 3ball.
Rofl

[coastalmarker99]

Rings are so luck-based.


Hakeem is a perfect example of that.


He would have far more than 2 rings for his career had Sampson stayed healthy as he wouldn't have been surrounded by complete garbage for most of his prime years.



The Rockets losing that game 6 in 1987 when Hakeem dropped 49 points and was utterly dominating on both ends of the floor was just disgusting to watch live at the time.


Never mind his 1993 loss when the Refs basically robbed him against the Sonics.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hi8K4BN2dR8

[ImKobe]

Rings are so luck-based.


Hakeem is a perfect example of that.


He would have far more than 2 for his career had Sampson stayed healthy as he wouldn't have been surrounded by complete garbage for most of his prime years.



The Rockets losing that game seven in 1993 when Hakeem dropped 49 points was just disgusting to watch live at the time.

He also had insane luck to come back from down 1 - 3 vs Suns in '95 or 1 - 2 vs Jazz in '95 1st round (BO5) where Drexler had B2B monster elimination games. He's also lucky John Starks melted down in the '94 Finals when it looked like the Knicks had it in Game 7 (Starks shot 2/18 0/11 from 3 in a 6-point loss).

[coastalmarker99]

He also had insane luck to come back from down 1 - 3 vs Suns in '95 or 1 - 2 vs Jazz in '95 1st round (BO5) where Drexler had B2B monster elimination games. He's also lucky John Starks melted down in the '94 Finals when it looked like the Knicks had it in Game 7 (Starks shot 2/18 0/11 from 3 in a 6-point loss).


Yep to win titles in a team sport you need a little bit of luck to go your way.


Kobe had it in 2002 with Robert Horry's shot and 2000 with Portland's meltdown.



Lebron had it in 2013 and 2016 with Ray's shot and Green's suspension.



But the both of them were also unlucky as well during their careers



Kobe could have six rings and two three-peats to his name if not for injuries in 2008.


While Lebron could have 5 rings and back to back titles on two different teams if not for Love and Kyries' injuries in 2015.

[SouBeachTalents]

You need 5+ rings to be in the GOAT convo. Bran is in the Bird/Shaq tier while the real winners (MJ, Kareem, Russell, Kobe, Magic, Duncan) are above him.
Who cares about rings you were clearly 2nd fiddle for the entire season to the BITW, and won while getting outscored 38-16 in the Finals. You think that puts Kobe in GOAT contention over LeBron? GTFOH :oldlol:

[coastalmarker99]

Who cares about rings you were clearly 2nd fiddle for the entire season to the BITW, and won while getting outscored 38-16 in the Finals. You think that puts Kobe in GOAT contention over LeBron? GTFOH :oldlol:


You just know if Lebron were to win 2 more rings before his career is over even as the 2nd or third fiddle that the goalposts would change once again.




Also, the fun fact is that Lebron has everyone beat in the real winner's tier outside of Jordan in terms of FMVPs.



Another fact is Kobe does not belong in that convo as he is the worst big-time game performer when it comes to the top 12 twelve players of all-time

[Hey Yo]

History will show that there's no clear-cut argument over Kobe.. or Magic

That is all

4 >>>>> 3 >>>>>>> 2

[Hey Yo]

You need 5+ rings to be in the GOAT convo. Bran is in the Bird/Shaq tier while the real winners (MJ, Kareem, Russell, Kobe, Magic, Duncan) are above him.

Kobe has 2

[ImKobe]

Who cares about rings you were clearly 2nd fiddle for the entire season to the BITW, and won while getting outscored 38-16 in the Finals. You think that puts Kobe in GOAT contention over LeBron? GTFOH :oldlol:

Bran was 2nd to Davis for the majority of the 2019-20 season & stat-padded for a FMVP against an injured Heat team after getting 4-5 months of rest.

Kobe was as good as Shaq in 2001. Shaq himself called Kobe the best player in the world and Kobe was as good as Shaq in the POs through the WC run (the real Finals).

Bran played in a joke of a Conference for the majority of his career while Kobe had battles with Duncan every other year which is why the two split rings & Finals appearances. Imagine either the Lakers or Spurs played in the opposite Conference for all those years, both Kobe and Duncan would have 10 Finals appearances and the real Finals would have actually been played in the Finals.

[SouBeachTalents]

You just know if Lebron were to win 2 more rings before his career is over even as the 2nd or third fiddle that the goalposts would change once again.




Also, the fun fact is that Lebron has everyone beat in the real winner's tier outside of Jordan in terms of FMVPs.



Another fact is Kobe does not belong in that convo as he is the worst big-time game performer when it comes to the top 12 twelve players of all-time
Of course they would. Bro, they discredit his titles over a teammate hitting a single shot. But Kobe’s 2000 ring playing with a player having a GOAT level season and getting outscored by over 20 ppg in the Finals is legit? Complete bunch of clowns :lol

[ImKobe]

Of course they would. Bro, they discredit his titles over a teammate hitting a single shot. But Kobe’s 2000 ring playing with a player having a GOAT level season and getting outscored by over 20 ppg in the Finals is legit? Complete bunch of clowns :lol

There's no NBA Finals without Kobe, who led the Lakers in points, reb, ast & blocks in a Game 7 against Portland with one clutch play after another in that 4th quarter comeback. He only won a pivotal Finals game on the road with Shaq fouled out in OT @Indiana. Keep hating though.

[SouBeachTalents]

There's no NBA Finals without Kobe, who led the Lakers in points, reb, ast & blocks in a Game 7 against Portland with one clutch play after another in that 4th quarter comeback. He only won a pivotal Finals game on the road with Shaq fouled out in OT @Indiana. Keep hating though.
Ok great, 2 games out of a 100 game sample. I’m sure I could post multiple games that Shaq completely carried Kobe to wins that season, virtually the entire Finals.

You can’t claim 5 rings gets you into GOAT contention, then try to weasel in his 2000 title. Shit isn’t gonna fly :lol It’s not just Kobe either, Kareem’s last 2 titles would get the same context applied as well.

[JohnMax]

He needs 1 more ring to surpass those guys and 2 more rings to make Jordan comparisons a debate.

I believe he will get them but not with Anthony Davis. He needs to join Steph Curry.

[TheCorporation]

MVPs

LeBron
4x FMVP
4x MVP

Kobe
2x FMVP
1xMVP

8 beats 3

Bye

[WhiteKyrie]

Removing Kobe’s first sidekick ring. And given he has 2 co alpha rings. And LeBron has a co-alpha but Mickey Mouse chip in 2020. They’re about equal in regards to the ring count, to me, honestly.

[TheCorporation]

Removing Kobe’s first sidekick ring. And given he has 2 co alpha rings. And LeBron has a co-alpha but Mickey Mouse chip in 2020. They’re about equal in regards to the ring count, to me, honestly.

1 MVP in 20 years

Bye :lol

[WhiteKyrie]

1 MVP in 20 years

Bye :lol
Same thing with Shaq. Point? I could see an argument either way for Kobe vs LeBron. They’re all arguing 2-10 all time anyway. So what’s your point kid?

[SouBeachTalents]

Same thing with Shaq. Point? I could see an argument either way for Kobe vs LeBron. They’re all arguing 2-10 all time anyway. So what’s your point kid?
Yeah, the guy with far less MVP’s, FMVP’s, and literally worse statistical production across the board definitely has an argument :lol

[WhiteKyrie]

Yeah, the guy with far less MVP’s, FMVP’s, and literally worse statistical production across the board definitely has an argument :lol
Ok, cool. I said I can see arguments either way.

No need for your over sensitivity.

2nd or 3rd best ever? Cool beans. It’s over.

LeBron also has less peer level respect in terms of being a competitor and skill wise.

Could argue Kobe had much more difficult context to winning, playing with Shaq aside, Bron has played with way more help.

And no one takes the 2020 ring seriously. And even some of his other ones have suspect context.

And in their head to heads I never got the feeling of one guy having complete dominance over the other.

Not like say how MJ dog walked Magic in the 1991 Finals, drastically out performing him. Or Drexler. Or Barkley, or Malone, etc

Or how Hakeem embarrassed his elite contemporaries head to head.

[3ba11]

Ok great, 2 games out of a 100 game sample. I’m sure I could post multiple games that Shaq completely carried Kobe to wins that season, virtually the entire Finals.

You can’t claim 5 rings gets you into GOAT contention, then try to weasel in his 2000 title. Shit isn’t gonna fly :lol It’s not just Kobe either, Kareem’s last 2 titles would get the same context applied as well.


Kobe's near-goat scoring diversity including elite jumpshooting skill fit with everyone and allowed the best strategy (ball movement), so he could win with less help (Bosh at 2nd option, I mean Pau).

This matters because it means that Kobe didn't need as much help to win, while also knowing HOW to win (organic), and being capable of defeating maximum defensive attention (carrying scoring load in playoffs and Finals).

That's a bunch of key things that make Kobe better.

Regarding "knowing how to win".. Dirk waited 10 years to develop the perfect chemistry and win in 2011, while the 04' Pistons also won with superior brand of ball (not superior talent).. Similarly, the Spurs,, Warriors and 90"s Bulls developed the best brand of ball in the league.. Learning the best brand and chemistry in the league is required of all organic winners, so Lebron never learned superior brand (how to win) and only learned talent-based winning (team-hopping.. all-star team strategy).

[HylianNightmare]

History will show that Lebron isn't definitively better than 2 of the greatest to ever play?! Oh no...

Mr 1-5 they said:oldlol:

[SouBeachTalents]

Kobe's near-goat scoring diversity including elite jumpshooting skill fit with everyone and allowed the best strategy (ball movement), so he could win with less help (Bosh at 2nd option, I mean Pau).

This matters because it means that Kobe didn't need as much help to win, while also knowing HOW to win (organic), and being capable of defeating maximum defensive attention (carrying scoring load in playoffs and Finals).

That's a bunch of key things that make Kobe better.

Regarding "knowing how to win".. Dirk waited 10 years to develop the perfect chemistry and win in 2011, while the 04' Pistons also won with superior brand of ball (not superior talent).. Similarly, the Spurs,, Warriors and 90"s Bulls developed the best brand of ball in the league.. Learning the best brand and chemistry in the league is required of all organic winners, so Lebron never learned superior brand (how to win) and only learned talent-based winning (team-hopping.. all-star team strategy).
This, unsurprisingly, had nothing to do with my post 3bot :lol

[coastalmarker99]

This, unsurprisingly, had nothing to do with my post 3bot :lol


3ball is seriously mentally ill when it comes to Lebron.


If he is so beneath Jordan like he claims then why has he for the past decade been posting about him every single day.



Also for the record this knowing how to win thing is total rubbish.

As Here is a Wilt quote about this that I really like.

“This is a team game and one man doesn't win and one man doesn't lose. In the end, the best team usually wins.”

[SouBeachTalents]

3ball is seriously mentally ill when it comes to Lebron.
He's seriously mentally ill when it doesn't come to LeBron either.

[coastalmarker99]

He's seriously mentally ill when it doesn't come to LeBron either.

Here is a fun fact for you.

Did you know that Pau Gasol had more Win Shares in the 2010 Playoffs than Wade and Bosh had combined in the 2013 Playoffs.


When you look past the names and just look at the level of play.


You'll realize that despite the constant cries of those Heat teams being stacked, Wade/Bosh played well below expectations in the playoffs most of the time.