Bird vs Lebron

[colts19]

Reading thru the forum and came across someone saying after LA loss last night, should LA tank to get a better draft pick. I never heard anyone say that about a Larry Bird-led team. Of course, I never saw a Bird-led team finish below .500 either. As a matter of fact, before injuries Birds team had 6 straight years of btw 61 and 67 wins. After that he never had a team with less that 55 wins if he was healthy and played in more than 50 games.

Now all of you Bron fans can cry about how Birds teams were stacked and ignore all of Bron's team hopping.

[SouBeachTalents]

Bird won one playoff series after the age of 31, and made only one All-NBA Team as well. It's just a ridiculous comparison to make, penalizing someone at 37 when the other guy was a shell of himself by his mid 30's. The LeBron vs. Bird comparisons in their 30's is not going to go well for Bird :lol

[Bronbron23]

Reading thru the forum and came across someone saying after LA loss last night, should LA tank to get a better draft pick. I never heard anyone say that about a Larry Bird-led team. Of course, I never saw a Bird-led team finish below .500 either. As a matter of fact, before injuries Birds team had 6 straight years of btw 61 and 67 wins. After that he never had a team with less that 55 wins if he was healthy and played in more than 50 games.

Now all of you Bron fans can cry about how Birds teams were stacked and ignore all of Bron's team hopping.

Bird was the better player because he could put up the same stats as bron without ball dominating and playing within a system with elite on and off ball movement. This is a better philosophy for winning. That said if i had to choose one or the other i'm taking bron simply because his body held up better and he's gonna accomplish more.

[nineiron]

Bird won one playoff series after the age of 31, and made only one All-NBA Team as well. It's just a ridiculous comparison to make, penalizing someone at 37 when the other guy was a shell of himself by his mid 30's. The LeBron vs. Bird comparisons in their 30's is not going to go well for Bird :lol

*** off with this shit. LeRoid and his stupid stans were all saying he's playing the best ball of his career.

now the story changes cuz he's getting exposed.

[1987_Lakers]

Comparing LeBron to Bird is like comparing Kareem to Hakeem.

Both players had all-time great peaks, but when you factor in achievements and longevity...it's pretty damn obvious who was better.

[tpols]

Reading thru the forum and came across someone saying after LA loss last night, should LA tank to get a better draft pick. I never heard anyone say that about a Larry Bird-led team. Of course, I never saw a Bird-led team finish below .500 either. As a matter of fact, before injuries Birds team had 6 straight years of btw 61 and 67 wins. After that he never had a team with less that 55 wins if he was healthy and played in more than 50 games.

Now all of you Bron fans can cry about how Birds teams were stacked and ignore all of Bron's team hopping.

Larry Bird's teams are among the GOAT assist total teams in NBA history alongside 80s Lakers, 10s Warriors, and 10s Spurs. So he simply played a much superior brand of ball which enhanced his teammates performances and led to much higher team ceiling. LeBron is like the anti-Larry bird. A ball dominant non shooter who won't listen to coaches.

[tpols]

Bird won one playoff series after the age of 31, and made only one All-NBA Team as well. It's just a ridiculous comparison to make, penalizing someone at 37 when the other guy was a shell of himself by his mid 30's. The LeBron vs. Bird comparisons in their 30's is not going to go well for Bird :lol

Bird played in a much more physical era and wasn't a pansy flopper like LeBron. Players back then didn't load manage and take off regular season games for "rest". He was obviously also all natural while LeBron (and many other athletes) have been juiced to the gills.

[eliteballer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmB6YCUzgMU

[jayfan]

This exact thread not only exists, but was posted in as recently as yesterday.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?474139-Larry-Bird-or-LeBron-James/page7


.

[Charlie Sheen]

Thread makes no sense. Why would the Lakers tank? Their pick goes to Memphis or New Orleans no matter what :lol

[theman93]

Lebron's 3 super teams resulted in 4 titles.

Bird's 1 super team resulted in 3 titles.

Bird also accomplished all this while skipping leg day.

Bird > Lebron

[SouBeachTalents]

Bird played in a much more physical era and wasn't a pansy flopper like LeBron. Players back then didn't load manage and take off regular season games for "rest". He was obviously also all natural while LeBron (and many other athletes) have been juiced to the gills.
LeBron didn't do that either until he went to L.A. in his mid 30's. He was as durable as any player ever his first 15 years in the league.

[1987_Lakers]

Lebron's 3 super teams resulted in 4 titles.

Bird's 1 super team resulted in 3 titles.

Bird also accomplished all this while skipping leg day.

Bird > Lebron

So the 2016 Cavs and 2020 Lakers are on par with the 80's Celtics?

[theman93]

So the 2016 Cavs and 2020 Lakers are on par with the 80's Celtics?

Bird gives them the edge. Hence Bird > Lebron

[86Celtics]

James is a worse shooter, rebounder and an equal passer. He is significantly less clutch, can't be bothered with defence and more importantly he is a worse teammate.
But he is better than Bird because he is more durable? Where's the logic in that?

[nineiron]

James is a worse shooter, rebounder and an equal passer. He is significantly less clutch, can't be bothered with defence and more importantly he is a worse teammate.
But he is better than Bird because he is more durable? Where's the logic in that?

there's no way LeRoid is as good a passer as Bird. there are so many better passers than LeBald

Bird might be the best passer to ever play the game.

[tpols]

So the 2016 Cavs and 2020 Lakers are on par with the 80's Celtics?

Bird won his first title with Kevin Mchale averaging single digits. He created that dynasty TEAMWORK culture with his brilliant off ball play, shooting, IQ, and toughness. Larry Bird won titles with Kevin McHale as his only superstar teammate. The Celtics reached a higher dynasty peak than any LeBron led super team as a result of this. LeBron needed to team hop with MVPs to mostly lose. Its not particularly close.

[theman93]

Why is Lebron such a worse FT shooter than Bird?

[SouBeachTalents]

Bird won his first title with Kevin Mchale averaging single digits. He created that dynasty TEAMWORK culture with his brilliant off ball play, shooting, IQ, and toughness. Larry Bird won titles with Kevin McHale as his only superstar teammate. The Celtics reached a higher dynasty peak than any LeBron led super team as a result of this. LeBron needed to team hop with MVPs to mostly lose. Its not particularly close.
You mean the title where in the Finals he averaged 15 ppg on 15 shots and 46%TS against a 40 win team, losing FMVP to a guy who had never even made an All-Star game.

I can only imagine the reaction on here if it was LeBron who had won a title like that :lol

[La Frescobaldi]

Meanwhile the Klitschkos who fought the entire planet to a standstill for two decades are now fighting Russia with that same brutal, blunt force they showed in the ring.
Vitali, who was never knocked down his whole career, is mayor of Kiev. Right now.

[1987_Lakers]

James is a worse shooter, rebounder and an equal passer. He is significantly less clutch, can't be bothered with defence and more importantly he is a worse teammate.
But he is better than Bird because he is more durable? Where's the logic in that?

You can basically say Bird is a better shooter, rebounder, passer and better teammate than MJ as well. Yet I don't see anyone saying Bird > MJ.

"Can't be bothered with defense". What does that even mean? :oldlol:

If we line up Bird's postseason performances and LeBron's it's pretty obvious LeBron has him beat there.

[1987_Lakers]

Bird won his first title with Kevin Mchale averaging single digits. He created that dynasty TEAMWORK culture with his brilliant off ball play, shooting, IQ, and toughness. Larry Bird won titles with Kevin McHale as his only superstar teammate. The Celtics reached a higher dynasty peak than any LeBron led super team as a result of this. LeBron needed to team hop with MVPs to mostly lose. Its not particularly close.

You mean his first title in '81 where he played like shit and didn't even win FMVP?

Bird's '86 team was the most stacked team in NBA history before the KD-Curry Warriors came along.

[colts19]

You mean the title where in the Finals he averaged 15 ppg on 15 shots and 46%TS against a 40 win team, losing FMVP to a guy who had never even made an All-Star game.

I can only imagine the reaction on here if it was LeBron who had won a title like that :lol

The only difference is Bird's team still won. Anybody who watch that series knows Bird should have been FMVP

[tpols]

You mean the title where in the Finals he averaged 15 ppg on 15 shots and 46%TS against a 40 win team, losing FMVP to a guy who had never even made an All-Star game.

I can only imagine the reaction on here if it was LeBron who had won a title like that :lol

You're exposing yourself bro. Bird literally went toe to toe with peak Moses Malone (a top 15 GOAT) and outbattled him so bad, got his team up by so much, that he didn't need to score much.

I bet you didn't know the reason Birds averages were low was because the games were over so quick. :lol

And the fact that he could elevate a no name to FMVP only furthers the point on teammate enhancement, ego-lessness, and team dynasty ceiling. You just played yourself.

[kawhileonard2]

Bird would have these Lakers as the #1 or #2 seed right now in place of Lebron

[Gruppenführer]

Larry's edge is his basketball IQ. If Larry had half the physical prowess of Lebron, there's no doubt Larry would have dominated the 80's and be considered a better basketball player.


And that's discounting all the bumps Larry took in his career. In today's NBA, Larry would have lived on the line and racked up way more points.

[SouBeachTalents]

You're exposing yourself bro. Bird literally went toe to toe with peak Moses Malone (a top 15 GOAT) and outbattled him so bad, got his team up by so much, that he didn't need to score much.

I bet you didn't know the reason Birds averages were low was because the games were over so quick. :lol

That theory is totally debunked by the fact that Bird averaged an identical 15 ppg in the 3 games that were decided by 5 points or less that series. Close game, blow out, his scoring remained consistent regardless of the situation.


And the fact that he could elevate a no name to FMVP only furthers the point on teammate enhancement, ego-lessness, and team dynasty ceiling. You just played yourself.
:oldlol: Why even pretend like you'd be saying this shit if Maxwell had won FMVP over LeBron. 100% guaranteed you'd be clowning the shit out of him if the exact same situation had played out with LeBron instead. And it's not even like Maxwell had some remarkably great series for his standards, he was putting up nearly identical production that he had been in the regular seasons and playoffs around that time in his career.

[NBAGOAT]

James is a worse shooter, rebounder and an equal passer. He is significantly less clutch, can't be bothered with defence and more importantly he is a worse teammate.
But he is better than Bird because he is more durable? Where's the logic in that?

well no he's a better defender even if his effort isnt great. And bird yes only had 1 superteam but it lasted awhile

[HoopsNY]

You mean his first title in '81 where he played like shit and didn't even win FMVP?

Bird's '86 team was the most stacked team in NBA history before the KD-Curry Warriors came along.

If we're gonna be consistent, then it should be an apples to apples comparison. That was Bird's first finals appearance. How does it stack up to LeBron's?

Bird: 15/15/7/2/1 on 42/33/81 with 3 TOs

LeBron: 22/7/7/1/0.5 on 36/20/69 with 6 TOs

In the deciding games:

LeBron: 24/6/10/0/0 with 6 TOs, 33% FG%

Bird: 27/13/5/1/0 with 1 TO, 55% FG%

[1987_Lakers]

If we're gonna be consistent, then it should be an apples to apples comparison. That was Bird's first finals appearance. How does it stack up to LeBron's?

Bird: 15/15/7/2/1 on 42/33/81 with 3 TOs

LeBron: 22/7/7/1/0.5 on 36/20/69 with 6 TOs

In the deciding games:

LeBron: 24/6/10/0/0 with 6 TOs, 33% FG%

Bird: 27/13/5/1/0 with 1 TO, 55% FG%

Nobody here even brought up 2007 LeBron, I was correcting a poster who made it look like Bird was carrying the Celtics to a title in '81.

But if you want to see what both LeBron and Bird averaged in their Finals careers then here you go.

LeBron: 28/10/8 on 48 fg%
Bird: 23/12/6 on on 46 fg%

Clear edge for LeBron.

[NBAGOAT]

The only difference is Bird's team still won. Anybody who watch that series knows Bird should have been FMVP

well ofc they should've won. ik you know moses had mediocre help on the rockets. they're a 1st rd exit level team who benefited from a 3 games series in the 1st rd vs the lakers and a weak west. Not going make exaggerated claims the other way but I dont think you can point to any team bron faced in the finals as bad as the rockets. Beating the sixers in the conference finals on 27/13/5 is very impressive but bron has too many impressive conference finals performances to count

[Lebron23]

Lebron James. Bird is not even a top 5 player of all time.

[coastalmarker99]

With Bird, you get a nice 4-year run that had 4 straight finals appearances.


But outside of that, you get a 4-year span of .50.5 TS% (80-83) and a .52.5 TS% span (88-92).

In 12 years, you get 7 losses with HCA.

Basically, out of Bird's 13-year career, you have 1 injury season and 3 non-descript postseasons at the end of his plus some playoff disappointments early in his career.

[coastalmarker99]

If one were to take a long deep look at Bird's long list of playoff failures they would see why he is never ranked top 6 all-time by both fans and the media nowadays

1980- Averaged a .51.1 TS% in the postseason.

In-game 5 vs. the Sixers, he shot poorly, 5-19 with just 12 points, as the Celtics lost the game.

His man (Dr. J) averaged 25 PPG in this series. His team loses in 5 games despite having HCA and winning 61 games. Had a 18.3 PER in the postseason

1981- Has a .53.2 TS% in the postseason. He had a bad finals where he averaged just 15 PPG on .41.9 shooting and .46.0 TS%.

1982- PPG average dropped from 22.9 PPG to 17.8 PPG. He has an embarrassing .47.4 TS% in the playoffs.

He averaged a pedestrian 18.3 PPG against the Sixers while Averaging just 17 PPG in the final 2 games of the series.

The Celtics lose again with HCA. despite having won 63 games and having the #1 SRS in the league he also had a 17.9 PER in this postseason.

1983- The Celtics get swept by the Bucks. The Celtics win 56 games and had the #2 SRS in the league and lose again with HCA.

Bird plays awful again. .47.8 TS%.

His PPG average drops 2 PPG in the playoffs. Bird missed a game in the series but that game happened to be the closest one (Celtics lose by 4). In the 3 other games, the Celtics lose by 14.3 PPG with Bird on the court.

1984- Great playoffs. Averaged 27-14-4 in the Finals and had a .607 TS% in the playoffs. First great playoff of his career. Celtics win the title over the Lakers.

1985- Celtics make the finals, but Bird's numbers drop in the playoffs.

His PPG drops by 2.8 PPG, Reb by 1.2 Reb, and AST by 0.7 AST. Had an average .53.6 TS% in the postseason.

Bird plays even worse in the finals.

His PPG dropped 4.9 PPG, his Reb 1.7 Reb, and AST by 1.6 AST in the finals compared to his regular-season average. His Finals TS% is just .52.7.

Not only that, but the Celtics finish with 63 wins and lose once again with HCA a constant theme in Bird's career.

This is the first time in Celtics history they lost in the finals with HCA.

1986- Great year. His best year ever. Wins the title. .61.5 TS% in the postseason and amazing finals.

1987- I think this is his most admirable playoffs up until the finals.

The Celtics were quite banged up this year. Averaged 27-10-7 in the postseason with .57.7 TS%.

Though his numbers in the finals dropped off once again.

His PPG was 3.9 PPG down from the regular season, AST down by 2.1 AST and his TS% was just .53.4.

In-game 6, Bird scored just 16 points on 6-16 (.37.5) shooting.

In the final 3 games of this series, Bird averaged just 20 PPG on .37.7 shooting and .49.2 TS% with 3.7 TOV.

This is the first time Bird has played without HCA in the playoffs and his team loses.

1988- Bird's PPG drops by 5.4 PPG, Reb by 0.5 Reb. Bird shoots an awful 40-114 (.35.1) against the Pistons.

Has a mediocre .53.8 TS% and 20.2 PER in the playoffs.

The Celtics once again had HCA and the #1 SRS in the league and you probably guessed what happened next, Larry Bird loses again

1989- Injured doesn't play in the postseason.

1990- Bird shoots .53.9 TS% and has 3.6 TOV as the Celtics once again you guessed it, lose with HCA.

1991- In the first round, his team needs to go 5 vs. the 41 win Pacers. His PPG dropped by 2.3 PPG and his Rebounds and Assists also drop quite a bit. Has a .490 TS% 15.8 PER in the playoffs. Against the Pistons Bird averages 13.4 PPG on .44.6 TS%. His 56 win team played with you guessed it HCA and loses with it.

1992- Doesn't play in the first round as the Celtics sweep the Pacers. In round 2, his team goes 7 against the Cavs, but Bird plays in 4 games and his team was 1-3 in those games.

Averages a pathetic 11.3 PPG and 4.5 Reb which are 8.4 PPG and 5.2 Reb down from his regular-season average.

He has a .51.4 TS% and 16.4 PER in that postseason.

So out of 12 years, you get 9 years under .54.0 TS%, 5 under .52.0 TS%, and 3 under .50.0 TS%.

from 80-83, he had a 19.9 playoff PER.

In that span, Johnny Moore, Franklin Edwards, Gus Williams, and Bob Lanier all had better playoff PER and WS/48.

While Teammates Parish, McHale, Tiny Archibald, and Cedric Maxwell had better TS% in that span.

From 88-92, he had a 18.8 PER which is 25th among players with 10 playoff games played.

Players who had better playoff PER's in that span include Fat Lever, Terry Cummings, Roy Tarpley, Cedric Ceballos, and Sarunas Marciulionis. His teammates Reggie Lewis and Kevin McHale had better playoff PER's in that span.

[coastalmarker99]

Here are Bird's averages across the board in-game sevens and elimination games.

Game sevens

27.0 PPG (Regular season career average is 24.3 ppg)

9.3 RPG (Regular season career average is 10.0 rpg)

6.8 APG (Regular season career average is 6.3 APG)

1.3 BPG (Regular season career average is 0.8 BPG)

1.4 SPG (Regular season career average is 1.7 SPG)

FG% 49.7% (Regular season career average is 49.6%)


Elimination games.

9 7 W-L record

24.3 PPG (Regular season career average is 24.3 ppg)

9.2 RPG (Regular season career average is 10.0 rpg)

6.2 APG (Regular season career average is 6.3 APG)

0.8 BPG (Regular season career average is 0.8 BPG)

1.5 SPG (Regular season career average is 1.7 SPG)

TS% 53.5(Regular season career average is 56.4%)



Now Here are Lebron's averages across the board in-game sevens and elimination games.


Elimination games

15 10 W-L record


33.48 PPG (Regular season career average is 27.0 ppg)

10.76 RPG (Regular season career average is 7.4 rpg)

7.4 APG (Regular season career average is 7.4 APG)

1.0 BPG (Regular season career average is 0.7 BPG)

1.6 STL (Regular season career average is 1.6 STL)

FG% 48.8% Regular season career average is 50.4%)




Game sevens

6 2 W-L record

34.87 PPG (Regular season career average is 27.0 ppg)

9.87 RPG (Regular season career average is 7.4 rpg)

5.6 APG (Regular season career average is 7.4 APG)

0.8 BPG (Regular season career average is 0.7 BPG)

1.7 STL(Regular season career average is 1.6 STL)

3.6 TOV Regular season career average is 3.5 TOV)

FG% 48.7% Regular season career average is 50.4%)



LeBron is on another level compared to Bird and the stats back up this take.

[SouBeachTalents]

Here are Bird's averages across the board in-game sevens and elimination games.

Game sevens

27.0 PPG (Regular season career average is 24.3 ppg)

9.3 RPG (Regular season career average is 10.0 rpg)

6.8 APG (Regular season career average is 6.3 APG)

1.3 BPG (Regular season career average is 0.8 BPG)

1.4 SPG (Regular season career average is 1.7 SPG)

FG% 49.7% (Regular season career average is 49.6%)


Elimination games.

9 7 W-L record

24.3 PPG (Regular season career average is 24.3 ppg)

9.2 RPG (Regular season career average is 10.0 rpg)

6.2 APG (Regular season career average is 6.3 APG)

0.8 BPG (Regular season career average is 0.8 BPG)

1.5 SPG (Regular season career average is 1.7 SPG)

TS% 53.5(Regular season career average is 56.4%)



Now Here are Lebron's averages across the board in-game sevens and elimination games.


Elimination games

15 10 W-L record


33.48 PPG (Regular season career average is 27.0 ppg)

10.76 RPG (Regular season career average is 7.4 rpg)

7.4 APG (Regular season career average is 7.4 APG)

1.0 BPG (Regular season career average is 0.7 BPG)

1.6 STL (Regular season career average is 1.6 STL)

FG% 48.8% Regular season career average is 50.4%)




Game sevens

6 2 W-L record

34.87 PPG (Regular season career average is 27.0 ppg)

9.87 RPG (Regular season career average is 7.4 rpg)

5.6 APG (Regular season career average is 7.4 APG)

0.8 BPG (Regular season career average is 0.7 BPG)

1.7 STL(Regular season career average is 1.6 STL)

3.6 TOV Regular season career average is 3.5 TOV)

FG% 48.7% Regular season career average is 50.4%)



LeBron is on another level compared to Bird and the stats back up this take.
https://c.tenor.com/Y0gl6YxNauIAAAAC/boom-denzel.gif

Do the same for playoffs & Finals and I'm sure it'd be a similar story. Great previous post btw. Bird gets a HUGE pass for having multiple seasons with pedestrian playoff performances.

[Taurus]

It's Bron, this place is just a huge echo chamber of the vocal minority despite what they tell themselves

[LeCola]

Bird is second GOAT.

Lebron is barely top 10.

[ImKobe]

Bird was a better player at his peak. Could pass just as well as Lebron. Unlimited range. Great rebounder & defender. Didn't dominate the ball nearly as much to get his numbers. He would have taken 5-8 threes a game at a ~40% clip in today's NBA as well.

[ImKobe]

Here are Bird's averages across the board in-game sevens and elimination games.

Game sevens

27.0 PPG (Regular season career average is 24.3 ppg)

9.3 RPG (Regular season career average is 10.0 rpg)

6.8 APG (Regular season career average is 6.3 APG)

1.3 BPG (Regular season career average is 0.8 BPG)

1.4 SPG (Regular season career average is 1.7 SPG)

FG% 49.7% (Regular season career average is 49.6%)


Elimination games.

9 7 W-L record

24.3 PPG (Regular season career average is 24.3 ppg)

9.2 RPG (Regular season career average is 10.0 rpg)

6.2 APG (Regular season career average is 6.3 APG)

0.8 BPG (Regular season career average is 0.8 BPG)

1.5 SPG (Regular season career average is 1.7 SPG)

TS% 53.5(Regular season career average is 56.4%)



Now Here are Lebron's averages across the board in-game sevens and elimination games.


Elimination games

15 10 W-L record


33.48 PPG (Regular season career average is 27.0 ppg)

10.76 RPG (Regular season career average is 7.4 rpg)

7.4 APG (Regular season career average is 7.4 APG)

1.0 BPG (Regular season career average is 0.7 BPG)

1.6 STL (Regular season career average is 1.6 STL)

FG% 48.8% Regular season career average is 50.4%)




Game sevens

6 2 W-L record

34.87 PPG (Regular season career average is 27.0 ppg)

9.87 RPG (Regular season career average is 7.4 rpg)

5.6 APG (Regular season career average is 7.4 APG)

0.8 BPG (Regular season career average is 0.7 BPG)

1.7 STL(Regular season career average is 1.6 STL)

3.6 TOV Regular season career average is 3.5 TOV)

FG% 48.7% Regular season career average is 50.4%)



LeBron is on another level compared to Bird and the stats back up this take.

You made the mistake of directly comparing stats across 2-3 decades like Bird played in today's NBA lmao.

[HoopsNY]

Nobody here even brought up 2007 LeBron, I was correcting a poster who made it look like Bird was carrying the Celtics to a title in '81.

But if you want to see what both LeBron and Bird averaged in their Finals careers then here you go.

LeBron: 28/10/8 on 48 fg%
Bird: 23/12/6 on on 46 fg%

Clear edge for LeBron.

Gotchya; tbh, I wasn't around back then so it would take some analysis from those who witnessed that entire finals to understand Bird's contribution. Still and all though, his role was significant.

As for the edge you speak of, then I think it's important to contextualize. LeBron's overall finals numbers include the 2015-2020 where the style of play has completely changed. It has become significantly easier to score with much more relaxed perimeter play, with teams shooting a considerable number of threes.

Compare LeBron's finals from 2007-2014 (5 appearances) to 2015-2020 (5 appearances):

LeBron Finals '07-'14: 24/9/6/2/1 on 54.6% TS%

LeBron Finals '15-'20: 32/12/9/2/1 on 57.6% TS%

Here we see LeBron from 2015 onward in the finals blowing away peak LeBron. I do think LeBron's offensive IQ had improved after 2014, but not to the level the stats indicate.

Now look at Bird's finals stats: 23/12/6/2/1 on 54.5% TS%

His performance is almost identical to peak LeBron, which IMO is more indicative. Now seriously ask yourself, if you put Bird in the finals from 2015-2020, what's he putting up, given rule changes and style of play, especially the reliance on three point shooting (where Bird shot 42% for his career)?

[jayfan]

If one were to take a long deep look at Bird's long list of playoff failures they would see why he is never ranked top 6 all-time by both fans and the media nowadays

1980- Averaged a .51.1 TS% in the postseason.

In-game 5 vs. the Sixers, he shot poorly, 5-19 with just 12 points, as the Celtics lost the game.

His man (Dr. J) averaged 25 PPG in this series. His team loses in 5 games despite having HCA and winning 61 games. Had a 18.3 PER in the postseason


What was Boston's record the year before?

How did Lebron do in the playoffs his rookie season?


.

[Wally450]

Lebron James. Bird is not even a top 5 player of all time.

You say that like its a bad thing.

Bird had one of the best peaks of all time.

LeBron is just better in most categories. No shame in that at all.

If you say Bird isn't top 5, then he's #6 at worst.

[coastalmarker99]

What was Boston's record the year before?

How did Lebron do in the playoffs his rookie season?


.




Lebron was drafted at 18 years old on one of the worst franchises ever.



While Bird as a rookie was 23 years old and was drafted to a powerhouse team that had won 13 titles in the NBA's first 45 years and was also managed by none other than Red Auerbach.


Their situations were as rookies were completely different.




But for the record Lebron at 21 in his playoff debut averaged 36ppg/7.5rpg/5.7apg on 60% TS in a six-game series win over Gilbert Arenas and the Wizards.


While Bird at age 23 completely shit the bed in his playoff debut with his shot jacking and poor defence.

[jayfan]

Lebron was drafted at 18 years old on one of the worst franchises ever.



While Bird as a rookie was 23 years old and was drafted to a powerhouse team that had won 13 titles in the NBA's first 45 years and was also managed by none other than Red Auerbach.


Their situations were as rookies were completely different.




But for the record Lebron at 21 in his playoff debut averaged 36ppg/7.5rpg/5.7apg on 60% TS in a six-game series win over Gilbert Arenas and the Wizards.


While Bird at age 23 completely shit the bed in his playoff debut with his shot jacking and poor defence.

No. Bird was not drafted to a powerhouse team. He was drafted to a team that won 29 games the year before, and 30 games the year before that. Then they won 61 games his rookie season.

[Airupthere]

With Bird, not only do you get his peak years but just that lasting badass legacy with the franchise. With Lebron...

[SouBeachTalents]

With Bird, not only do you get his peak years but just that lasting badass legacy with the franchise. With Lebron...
That’s what happens when you get McHale/Parish/DJ/Ainge/Walton instead of Big Z & Mo Williams.

[jayfan]

That’s what happens when you get McHale/Parish/DJ/Ainge/Walton instead of Big Z & Mo Williams.


Here's the fun part, Bird had none of those guys as teammates his rookie year, when he led a 29 win team the year before to 61 wins & the ECF.

[Lebron23]

You say that like its a bad thing.

Bird had one of the best peaks of all time.

LeBron is just better in most categories. No shame in that at all.

If you say Bird isn't top 5, then he's #6 at worst.


I ranked Bird over Duncan, Shaq and Russell. Bird is the greatest Celtics of all time.

[kawhileonard2]

That’s what happens when you get McHale/Parish/DJ/Ainge/Walton instead of Big Z & Mo Williams.

What about Shaq, Ben Wallace, AD, Wade, Bosh, Ray Allen, Kyrie, Love, Westbrook, Dwight, Rondo to name a few.

[tpols]

That’s what happens when you get McHale/Parish/DJ/Ainge/Walton instead of Big Z & Mo Williams.

Big Z was a two time All Star with LeBron when he joined the Cavs. Kevin McHale averaged 8/3 in Birds first title. Parish averaged 15/8.

Most people don't realize that ^^^.

So Bird was winning with what was Lebrons early help. And that's because he's the best team player of all time and could elevate middling talent. Where as LeBron needs MVP caliber players to win and then still mostly loses. LeBron and Wade playing together would be like magic and Bird together. Absurd. AD And LeBron together would be like Bird and Kareem.

Its just a fact that your team across all scenarios mediocre or great help Birds teams are going to outperform Lebrons because Larry Bird played chess while Lebron plays checkers.

[1987_Lakers]

You made the mistake of directly comparing stats across 2-3 decades like Bird played in today's NBA lmao.

Bird put up those stats in an offensive friendly league.

[kawhileonard2]

Bird put up those stats in an offensive friendly league.

It’s more friendly now

[kawhileonard2]

I ranked Bird over Duncan, Shaq and Russell. Bird is the greatest Celtics of all time.

How is Bird over Russell?

[1987_Lakers]

It’s more friendly now

Most of LeBron's prime occurred when the NBA itself wasn't necessarily offensive friendly if you compare it to the 80's. Bird's prime occurred during one of the most offensive friendly era ever in the mid 80's.

Weak response.

[colts19]

How is Bird over Russell?

I am the biggest Bird fan there is. I rank Bill Russell ahead of Bird because I value winning. Thus I rank Bill Russell ahead of everyone. In the years that he was healthy Russell won 11 of 12 rings. Bird was probably the better all-around player but Bill had a bigger influence on winning.

[egokiller]

Bird’s trash talk would be too much for Lebron.

[kawhileonard2]

Bird’s trash talk would be too much for Lebron.

This is true! Booker broke Lebron imagine what Bird would do to him

[Gohan]

i'll take lebron, bird just doesnt have that... thing lebron has.

[kawhileonard2]

i'll take lebron, bird just doesnt have that... thing lebron has.

What is that? Switching teams? Missing the playoffs with a loaded team?

[nineiron]

With Bird, not only do you get his peak years but just that lasting badass legacy with the franchise. With Lebron...


That’s what happens when you get McHale/Parish/DJ/Ainge/Walton instead of Big Z & Mo Williams.


Here's the fun part, Bird had none of those guys as teammates his rookie year, when he led a 29 win team the year before to 61 wins & the ECF.

don't bother trying to reason with a bran stan

[Cold soul]

Lebron is the better player but Bird is better at the end of games in the clutch.

[Round Mound]

Better Athlete, Lebron. Better Player, Bird.

[Manny98]

LeBron is a whole tier above Bird :oldlol:

[Bronbron23]

Bird was definitely as good or better than Bron as a Player but Bron had better longevity so he had a better career and will go down better.

One thing Bron Stans don't understand is how bird
like mj could get Bron like numbers while playing within a system with alot of on and off ball movement. This allows for better team ball and allows other players flourish. If bird played Bron ball aka ball domination he'd have better stats than Bron because he was significantly more skilled. Bron was obviously more athletic but like Luka bird didn't rely on athleticism so that isn't a huge factor.

[kawhileonard2]

Better Athlete, Lebron. Better Player, Bird.

This

[kawhileonard2]

Even Lebron would concede that Bird is better.

[kawhileonard2]

Lebron's 3 super teams resulted in 4 titles.

Bird's 1 super team resulted in 3 titles.

Bird also accomplished all this while skipping leg day.

Bird > Lebron

Spot on!

[kawhileonard2]

Bird also could control the game better than Lebron.

[BigShotBob]

No. Bird was not drafted to a powerhouse team. He was drafted to a team that won 29 games the year before, and 30 games the year before that. Then they won 61 games his rookie season.

They don't know basketball

[kawhileonard2]

Lebron would need to turn an organization that drafted him into a dynasty like Bird did.

[kawhileonard2]

They don't know basketball

Agreed!

[Round Mound]

Lebron would need to turn an organization that drafted him into a dynasty like Bird did.

This. and i like Lebron. He is the 2nd GOAT SF.

[kawhileonard2]

This. and i like Lebron. He is the 2nd GOAT SF.

Exactly

[kawhileonard2]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/michael-jordan-said-larry-bird-is-far-better-than-lebron-james-and-any-other-small-forward-in-nba-history/ar-AA15rLUf?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=451d1dd3812d4754b45cf83be30f124c

[kawhileonard2]

Bird was definitely as good or better than Bron as a Player but Bron had better longevity so he had a better career and will go down better.

One thing Bron Stans don't understand is how bird
like mj could get Bron like numbers while playing within a system with alot of on and off ball movement. This allows for better team ball and allows other players flourish. If bird played Bron ball aka ball domination he'd have better stats than Bron because he was significantly more skilled. Bron was obviously more athletic but like Luka bird didn't rely on athleticism so that isn't a huge factor.

Longevity is different now because of the rule changes

[Full Court]

James is a worse shooter, rebounder and an equal passer. He is significantly less clutch, can't be bothered with defence and more importantly he is a worse teammate.
But he is better than Bird because he is more durable? Where's the logic in that?

There is no logic in the minds of Bronie fluffers.

You're spot on. Bird is hands down better.

[kawhileonard2]

Bird wouldn't had lost to Devin Booker

[1987_Lakers]

Bird wouldn't had lost to Devin Booker

He got swept by Sidney Moncrief

[kawhileonard2]

LeBron is a whole tier above Bird :oldlol:
How so?

[kawhileonard2]

Lebron is the better player but Bird is better at the end of games in the clutch.

Bird is better for sure