If Harden/Embiid win the title this year, then it's confirmed that...

[3ba11]

bigs like Embiid or Shaq are the best sidekicks possible for guards like Kobe, Harden and MJ

Yes, this is obvious - so on what planet would an athlete/defender wing and non-scorer system player (pippen) be the "best sidekick possible" for all-time scoring guards like Kobe, Harden or MJ?

[ShawkFactory]

Embiid and Shaq are not/were not sidekicks.

[3ba11]

Embiid and Shaq are not/were not sidekicks.


If leading scorers of playoff runs like AD and Kareem aren't sidekicks, than Lebron and Magic won rings as the sidekick and those don't count just like Kobe's rings with Shaq are diminished.

But Shaq & Embiid are obviously part of 1a/1b duo just like leading scorers AD or Kareem were part of 1a/1b duos, and it's obviously easier to win with a 1a/1b duo then than an Iggy-level 2nd option that you double in scoring (not a 1b).

You're saying it's harder to win with a 1b than a 2nd or 3rd-option producer that you double up in scoring, which is obviously absurd..

Lebron-fan logic: it's harder to win with 1b teammates that outscore you for entire playoff runs like Wade or AD, then it is to win with a 2nd or 3rd option producer that you double in scoring.

[ShawkFactory]

If leading scorers of playoff runs like AD and Kareem aren't sidekicks, than Lebron and Magic won rings as the sidekick and those don't count just like Kobe's rings with Shaq are diminished.

But Shaq & Embiid are obviously part of 1a/1b duo just like leading scorers AD or Kareem were part of 1a/1b duos, and it's obviously easier to win with a 1a/1b duo then than an Iggy-level 2nd option that you double in scoring (not a 1b).

You're saying it's harder to win with a 1b than a 2nd or 3rd-option producer that you double up in scoring, which is obviously absurd..

Lebron-fan logic: it's harder to win with 1b teammates that outscore you for entire playoff runs like Wade or AD, then it is to win with a 2nd or 3rd option producer that you double in scoring.

What the fvck are you talking about :lol

Literally the ramblings of an insane person.

[3ba11]

What the fvck are you talking about :lol

Literally the ramblings of an insane person.


You're just poorly educated

You're saying Shaq/Embiid aren't sidekicks because they're the scoring leaders, which means AD wasn't a sidekick and Lebron was infact the sidekick in 2020

Bottom line - duos where both guys get similar production are easier to win with than "duos" where 1 guy carries the load

[ShawkFactory]

You're just poorly educated

You're saying Shaq/Embiid aren't sidekicks because they're the scoring leaders, which means AD wasn't a sidekick and Lebron was infact the sidekick in 2020

Bottom line - duos where both guys get similar production are easier to win with than "duos" where 1 guy carries the load

That is correct. That was in direct response to:


bigs like Embiid or Shaq are the best sidekicks possible

..in your OP.

Are you high?

[3ba11]

That is correct. That was in direct response to:



..in your OP.

Are you high?


By that logic, Lebron was sidekick in 2020

We're talking duos here, and it's clear that great perimeter players who get an all-time big teammate win in their first year together (Magic/Kareem, AD/Lebron and possibly Harden/Embiid this year) or they 3-peat (Kobe/Shaq), so all-time bigs make a better duo with Mike than a non-go-to system player and low-producing athlete/defender like Pippen.. Pippen was far from the ideal partner because he wasn't a partner (comparable producer) like an all-time big would be

Carry on

[WhiteKyrie]

Harden is better than Embiid. And I don’t even like him. He contributed so much more last game than Embiid. 29 and 15? Point combo gawd status, right there. Embiid hasn’t gone anywhere.

[ShawkFactory]

By that logic, Lebron was sidekick in 2020

We're talking duos here, and it's clear that great perimeter players who get an all-time big teammate win in their first year together (Magic/Kareem, AD/Lebron and possibly Harden/Embiid this year) or they 3-peat (Kobe/Shaq), so all-time bigs make a better duo with Mike than a non-go-to system player and low-producing athlete/defender like Pippen.. Pippen was far from the ideal partner because he wasn't a partner (comparable producer) like an all-time big would be

Carry on

But thats not...what your thread was about.....

[3ba11]

if they win the title this year all it will truly mean is the 76ers were the best team in basketball


It's talent-based winning but we've seen it before with these type of perimeter player + all-time big duos

They're usually a perfect marriage that wins in their first year together like Lebron/AD or Magic/Kareem or Kareem/Oscar or Harden/Embiid this year... or they 3-peat like Kobe/Shaq

so all-time bigs make a better duo with MJ than a non-scoring and non-go-to system player and low-producing athlete/defender like Pippen.. Pippen was far from the ideal partner because he wasn't a partner (comparable producer) like an all-time big would be

But again, learning the best brand and chemistry in the league is required of all organic winners, so these perimeter player-big man duos didn't really learn superior brand (how to win) and only learned talent-based winning (team-hopping.. all-star team strategy).

[3ba11]

there's a ton of truth in what you are saying. I just can't lean too far right or left on the subject. it wouldn't be a fair assessment this early into the 76ers run with embiid and harden to give a definitive answer as to what makes this ship sail. all we know for certain is whatever happens... happens

:cheers:


They could develop even better chemistry and brand as time goes on and win more chips, but this initial union is a talent-based one.

I'm actually not sure they can win down the stretch of big games late in playoff series with the ball in Harden's hands every time down.. So they might need to fine-tune things

Btw, this thread is obviously about how a dominant big like Embiid or AD or Kareem or Shaq is a more "optimal" part of a duo alongside Jordan than a non-scoring system player and low-producing athlete/defender like Pippen.. Pippen was far from the ideal partner because he wasn't a partner (comparable producer) like an all-time big would be

[Real Men Wear Green]

Embiid will win the MVP award with this dumb**** calling him a sidekick.

[3ba11]

bigs like Embiid or Shaq are the best teammates possible for guards like Kobe, Harden and MJ

They usually win in their first season like Oscar/Kareem or Lebron/AD or Magic/Kareem and now Harden/Embiid, while Shaq/Kobe three-peat

So on what planet would an athlete/defender wing and non-scorer system player (pippen) be the "best teammate possible" for all-time scoring guards like Kobe, Harden or MJ?

[NBAGOAT]

and what does it confirm if they dont win? And as everyone said at this point in his career harden is the "sidekick". Shaq was never the sidekick either though some years you have a 1a/1b situation with kobe. It's not based on scoring just who's considered a better player. Embiid is a MVP candidate harden is not

[3ba11]

and what does it confirm if they dont win?


Now we're getting somewhere.

Surely it will be because Harden was holding the ball more than 8 minutes per game and using Embiid too extensively as the roll man.

That's a fine strategy but it's predictable and less successful in the playoffs - see CP3, Nash, Westbrook, and Lebron (before team-hopping for super-teams)..

Ball-dominance doesn't wear out defenses, so teams have more capacity for offense over a long series - more juice in the tank as the series progresses.. The best defense is a good offense and Harden-ball won't win the attrition battle in the long run.. A sufficient dose of Embiid-ball is always needed.

aka Harden needs to take a Kobe approach and let it run through Embiid often enough, and be the bailout option for Embiid, aka elevate Embiid ("stand in the corner for Embiid" or otherwise find ways to close possessions quickly if Embiid needs a bailout option)

This approach will apply more pressure on a defense and therefore accomplish the ultimate goal better if winning the attrition battle.

[3ba11]

and what does it confirm if they dont win? And as everyone said at this point in his career harden is the "sidekick". Shaq was never the sidekick either though some years you have a 1a/1b situation with kobe. It's not based on scoring just who's considered a better player. Embiid is a MVP candidate harden is not


bigs like Embiid or Shaq are the best teammates possible for guards like Kobe, Harden and MJ

They usually win in their first season like Oscar/Kareem or Lebron/AD or Magic/Kareem and now Harden/Embiid, while Shaq/Kobe three-peat

So on what planet would an athlete/defender wing and non-scorer system player (pippen) be the "best teammate possible" for all-time scoring guards like Kobe, Harden or MJ?... Because that's what a lot of people say - that Pippen was the best teammate for Jordan.. But obviously that's wrong - Iggy wasn't as good as tons of other teammates that would've been superior, like great bigs or elite high-assist playmakers.

[NBAGOAT]

Now we're getting somewhere.

Surely it will be because Harden was holding the ball more than 8 minutes per game and using Embiid too extensively as the roll man.

That's a fine strategy but it's predictable and less successful in the playoffs - see CP3, Nash, Westbrook, and Lebron (before team-hopping for super-teams)..

Ball-dominance doesn't wear out defenses, so teams have more capacity for offense over a long series - more juice in the tank as the series progresses.. The best defense is a good offense and Harden-ball won't win the attrition battle in the long run.. A sufficient dose of Embiid-ball is always needed.

aka Harden needs to take a Kobe approach and let it run through Embiid often enough, and be the bailout option for Embiid, aka elevate Embiid ("stand in the corner for Embiid" or otherwise find ways to close possessions quickly if Embiid needs a bailout option)

This approach will apply more pressure on a defense and therefore accomplish the ultimate goal better if winning the attrition battle.

ah a classic hedge lol. Just make a prediction to show off your "knowledge" for once. will the sixers win a title because bigs are the best sidekicks or will they lose because harden is too ball dominant. I'll say philly are my pick to win a title. I'm a little surprised you didnt pick the bulls considering they have 3 guys who can average 25 during a playoff series and you value scoring and derozan literally has had one of the best scoring stretches since MJ and Wilt.

as for your point, embiid-ball which is a bunch of postups does not wear out defenses that much either. It's not a ball movement player movement heavy system either. Harden ball will get embiid a bunch of easy buckets and free throws.