What Would Wilt's stats look like had he been allowed to play straight out of HS?

[coastalmarker99]

LeBron James, as we all know was allowed to play in the NBA from ages 19 to 22, right out of high school.



During those years, he racked up 8,439 points, 2,102 rebounds, and 2,033 assists.

Players were not able to be drafted out of high school until a 1971 Supreme Court Case changed that law.

Being very, very conservative, let's say Wilt averaged 25/20/2 from ages 19-22.



As from what I’ve read Wilt while being coached by Red scrimmaged against NBA players such as Neil Johnston while he was a teenager and utterly dominated them (Tall Tales by Terry Pluto).

He'd have over 36000 points, ~30,000 rebounds, and ~5,000 assists in his career.

[2much_knowledge]

We all know had wilt started from high school or Mj didnt retire twice, those totals would be untouchable

The cringiest one is kareem, omg lebron is gonna break the record of a player who played all his college years lol

What a surprise!!!

[Druckenmiller]

Well, there's also the fact that Wilt probably didn't need to retire as early as he did. He went on to be a terrific athlete in other sports after he retired from the NBA and was offered a million dollar contract at the age of 50 by the Nets in 1986

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAyN1LZNXfw.

And ... there wasn't any babbysitting back then. Wilt played every game he could, and rarely, if ever, came out of a game. He averaged more than 48 minutes per game one year. That's the record he holds that is most likely to never be broken. We have guys in the league right now who will never play 48 minutes in a game in their entire career.

LeBron's longevity is impressive. But it's a different time.

[coastalmarker99]

Well, there's also the fact that Wilt probably didn't need to retire as early as he did. He went on to be a terrific athlete in other sports after he retired from the NBA and was offered a million dollar contract at the age of 50 by the Nets in 1986

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAyN1LZNXfw.

And ... there wasn't any babbysitting back then. Wilt played every game he could, and rarely, if ever, came out of a game. He averaged more than 48 minutes per game one year. That's the record he holds that is most likely to never be broken. We have guys in the league right now who will never play 48 minutes in a game in their entire career.

LeBron's longevity is impressive. But it's a different time.


23pts (9-16fg) 21reb 3a 2blk 3stl was the final stat-line of Wilt Chamberlains incredibly dominant NBA career.


At 36 years old, Wilt was still dominant when he left the game, finishing 4th in MVP voting, setting the record for field goal percentage (shooting 73 percent for the season), leading the league in rebounding, and making yet another NBA Finals appearance.



And considering he had a successful pro volleyball career after basketball (and was in phenomenal shape through the rest of his life).


I would say he retired way too early as he easily could have played another 5 to ten seasons.

[Johnny32]

wilt dropped off a cliff after age 29 scoring wise.

[coastalmarker99]

wilt dropped off a cliff after age 29 scoring wise.

You're aware that Wilt stopped scoring on purpose after 1966 to solely focus on passing and defence?




From that point downwards Wilt cut his shots from 32 a game from 1960-1966 to 12.4 from 1967-1973.


By late in his career, he was taking less than 10 shots a game!!!


Can you imagine Wilt's scoring numbers as he averaged 34.3 ppg/21.1 rbg per 100 possessions in his scoring prime (60'-65')


If he solely focused on scoring for the rest of his career?


As when his new coach asked him to become a scorer again before the start of the 1969-70 season


Wilt then went out and led the league in scoring, at 32.2 ppg on (.57.9 shooting) in the first nine games.


Unfortunately, he injured his knee and was never the same again.

[Full Court]

A lot of players' longevity stats would be better if they had been allowed to play right out of HS.

[coastalmarker99]

wilt dropped off a cliff after age 29 scoring wise.

In my first four or five years in the NBA, I so dominated scoring wise that even my strongest detractors had to concede that I could score almost whenever I wanted to.


An example of how I dominated was bought to light on January 9 1991 when Micheal Jordan scored his fifteen thousandth point all the papers praised his achievement and related that he reached that milestone in his 460th game faster than anyone else in NBA history besides yours truly.


Who did it in 358 games that's right 102 games quicker


I was besieged by so many factions that I started to score less and less I did it only to appease my detractors not because of my inability to keep scoring.

There is no doubt that if I had chosen to keep scoring I could have and just as easily in my last years of play as in the beginning of my career.

I become a smarter player as I got older and my field goal percentage started to climb to unreal numbers also the center competition in my mind's eye became less and less formidable.

Russell was getting old and Kareem was not strong enough to keep me from going to the basket which I did more of in my later years than I was allowed to in my early years.


I want you all to realize that I dunked the basketball about half as many shots a game when I was really scoring points as Micheal Jordan does now as I mainly used fadeaway jump shots and finger rolls to score my shots


The point is I could have put the scoring record so far out of reach that Kareem would have to play thirty years not twenty years to break the record but I sacrificed all of that scoring ability for whatever my teams wanted of me.



I call that real unselfishness, not like that crap you hear announcers say when a player gives off a pass to a teammate my last game in the NBA was indicative of what I had allowed myself to become as a scorer I took one that's right one shot during the entire game.


There were many games during the last four or five years of my career when I took one or no shots but I led the NBA in rebounding and blocked shots and I established a shooting percentage record that may stand for many a year 72%.


What would you have done if you were the greatest scorer the game has ever seen would you stop shooting and pass the ball to some guy who on his best day couldn't score in an entire game what you averaged for one quarter for better or worse that's what I did.


At times I got a little angry when I read that I couldn't score anymore so I would go out and score 50 or 60 points just to show people I could still do it then I would go back to role-playing scoring twelve and thirteen points a contest.

[Johnny32]

i don't care why wilt claims his scoring fell off a cliff in his 30s. facts are facts.

[coastalmarker99]

i don't care why wilt claims his scoring fell off a cliff in his 30s. facts are facts.

Everyone knows that if Wilt had wanted to he could have put the scoring record so far out of reach that Kareem would have never caught him, and Jordan would not have the highest scoring average for a career.


They only caught Wilt because Wilt took his foot off the gas.

Hell when Rick Barry won the scoring title in 1967 with a 35.6 ppg (which BTW, was the highest full-time non-Wilt average during Wilt's 14 seasons in the league.)


Even Barry acknowledged that he only won it simply because Wilt didn't want it.



As everyone in the league knew that Wilt could have easily won it had he been so inclined.


As he actually put up the league-high game that year in 1967 with a 58 point game on 26-34 shooting from the field.


He also had three more 40+ point games (41 on 16-17 shooting, 43 on 20-28 shooting, and that 42 point game on 18-18 shooting.)

[Johnny32]

wilt also only wanted to win 1 championship as his teams best player. sure thing buddy.

[Johnny32]

wilt could have slept with 20 million women if he wanted to but he didn't so he only slept with 20k instead.

[coastalmarker99]

wilt also only wanted to win 1 championship as his teams best player. sure thing buddy.

He actually won two titles as his team's best player.


And mind you he was a couple of plays away from having 4 to 6 rings as the alpha dog on his teams.


As his teams lost four game sevens to the Celtics by a combined margin of only 9 points.

[Johnny32]

He actually won two titles as his team's best player.

west was first team all nba, first team defense, and was second in mvp voting.

[coastalmarker99]

west was first team all nba, first team defense, and was second in mvp voting.



Wilt was first-team defence and led the NBA in rebounding and FG% plus would have led the NBA in BPG had those stats been tracked and he was also third in MVP voting.


And most importantly of all, he was the Finals MVP in the 1972 finals and was the Laker's best player throughout the entire 1972 playoffs.

[coastalmarker99]

west was first team all nba, first team defense, and was second in mvp voting.


West in that entire 1972 postseason shot 37.6 and an absolute horrid 32.5 in the Finals.


He has no argument for being the 1972 Lakers best player.


As Wilt locked down Kareem in the 1972 WCFs and then dominated in the Finals against New york...en route to an FMVP (19.4 ppg, 23.2 RPG 7.4 BPG and on .60.0 shooting.)

[Johnny32]

Wilt was first-team defence and led the NBA in rebounding and FG% plus would have led the NBA in BPG had those stats been tracked and he was also third in MVP voting.


And most importantly of all, he was the Finals MVP in the 1972 finals and was the Laker's best player throughout the entire 1972 playoffs.

the knicks didn't have their center willis reed...you may have heard of him. lakers bigs dominated the paint.

[Johnny32]

West in that entire 1972 postseason shot 37.6 and an absolute horrid 32.5 in the Finals.


He has no argument for being the 1972 Lakers best player.

the players voting for mvp disagree.

[expansionera]

wilt dropped off a cliff after age 29 scoring wise.

His role changed, he only went after superstar numbers when tasked to by the Warriors coach

[coastalmarker99]

the players voting for mvp disagree.


I don't take that stuff seriously when we know that most players in the NBA disliked Wilt.



''I don't like the guy personally said one New York player about Wilt I wouldn't vote for him for anything.


Bill Russell king of the court page 113.




If the Media had voted for the MVP award.



Wilt would have 6 Mvp's instead of four.



as he was flat out robbed of the award in 1962 and 1964 due to other players disliking his ego.

[Johnny32]

His role changed, he only went after superstar numbers when tasked to by the Warriors coach

wilt was fatter and slower. his role changed because his body changed.

[expansionera]

wilt was fatter and slower. his role changed because his body changed.

Yes he was so fat and slow he’d go on to win FMVP after what would be a career ending injury for 90% of players at the time and then have an entirely separate Hall of Fame career in another sport entirely. Quit trolling

[Axe]

Wilt was gassed the moment kaj won his first-ever championship.

[coastalmarker99]

Yes he was so fat and slow he’d go on to win FMVP after what would be a career ending injury for 90% of players at the time and then have an entirely separate Hall of Fame career in another sport entirely. Quit trolling

Wilt destroyed his knee in November 1969.

It fell apart on a play where nobody even touched him, ironically.


He still came back after the famous sports surgeon Dr. Frank Jobe performed reconstructive surgery, and, after 6+ months of 12 hour a day rehab.

Consider this, when you call Wilt fat

--During Wilt's career timeframe, 2 players played more than 10,000 minutes after turning 33 (the year Wilt had reconstructive knee surgery)...

Wilt (11,146), and Johnny Green (10,767).

The average MP of the top 20 in MP was 5,917 minutes played.


The point? 34-36 was ancient back then.


And still, somehow, Wilt was the best rebounder in the league, and by far the best passer among big men.


And, played the most minutes per game, and the second-most minutes (only Havlicek played more total minutes).

[expansionera]

Wilt was gassed the moment kaj won his first-ever championship.

Wilt eliminated a 24 year old Kareem at 35 years old and blocked his “unblockable” shot on one leg. Prime for prime Kareem can’t hold Wilt’s jock

[Johnny32]

Yes he was so fat and slow he’d go on to win FMVP after what would be a career ending injury for 90% of players at the time and then have an entirely separate Hall of Fame career in another sport entirely. Quit trolling

it's not up to debate. young wilt was a skinny athletic freak. old wilt was fat and less athletic.

[expansionera]

it's not up to debate. young wilt was a skinny athletic freak. old wilt was fat and less athletic.

Less athletic Wilt on one leg with 1970’s technology > less athletic roided up Bron

And that’s a fact, Jack

[Johnny32]

Less athletic Wilt on one leg with 1970’s technology > less athletic roided up Bron

And that’s a fact, Jack

it appears to not be a fact.

[coastalmarker99]

Less athletic Wilt on one leg with 1970’s technology > less athletic roided up Bron

And that’s a fact, Jack


Wilt was still a freak athlete even on one leg in his mid 30's.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Un7DaNr3Zq4&t=3s



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6sQhV7ipks




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZObdRay43o&t=6s

[Axe]

Wilt eliminated a 24 year old Kareem at 35 years old and blocked his “unblockable” shot on one leg. Prime for prime Kareem can’t hold Wilt’s jock
Yet kaj was able to trounce him in the playoffs first before that retaliation happened a year after.

[Johnny32]

lol he's getting up like 6 inches. i saw multiple goaltends, a couple obvious fouls also.

[coastalmarker99]

Yet kaj was able to trounce him in the playoffs first before that retaliation happened a year after.


You leave the fact out that Wilt was missing West and Baylor when he first faced Kareem in the playoffs.


And yet he was still able to take a game off Kareem despite everyone predicting them be swept.

[expansionera]

Yet kaj was able to trounce him in the playoffs first before that retaliation happened a year after.

So? He beat an old man coming off a career ending knee surgery for most players at the time, Wilt got the better of him and the Big O despite being well over his hill and past his prime in their Final meeting

Kareem got molested on tape delayed television by Moses Malone so what the **** is he going to do against a more dominant physical center in his prime like Wilt? Nothing, not a god damn thing but keep trying to shoot fadeaways

[coastalmarker99]

Wilt eliminated a 24 year old Kareem at 35 years old and blocked his “unblockable” shot on one leg. Prime for prime Kareem can’t hold Wilt’s jock


Take note of when an old Wilt posts up KAJ, he wants no part of physically engaging Wilt.


There is no doubt in my mind that a prime Wilt would have done a number on Kareem.




As in game 5 of this series.


a 34 year old Wilt outplayed Kareem and for a stretch of 14 minutes and a half held Kareem without a field goal-blocking five of his attempts


Wilt finished the game with 23 points (10 from 21), 12 rebounds, 6 blocks (5 against Kareem) with 4 assists.





While Kareem had 20 points (on 7 from 23 shooting), 15 rebounds, 5 assists.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGDi6y3LeeM

[Psileas]

Honestly, it's hard to make a definitive case of how young Wilt would have to be not to be dominant in the 50's. That famous footage of Wilt catching a shot in mid-air, then coast to coasting, dishing and finishing the fast break was Wilt back in 1954, aged 17-18, 5-6 full years before his rookie season. This player already looks more impressive than a past prime Mikan, who was still the best player in that era, although this doesn't mean he'd be necessarily better, not to mention there was still no shot clock, which would somewhat suppress his overall stats (but would also inflate his "per possession" stats). 30+/20+ in the 3 year year period of 1957-59 and arguably best player in the league in the 1954-56 span is I think a realistic, if not conservative, estimation.

[Axe]

You leave the fact out that Wilt was missing West and Baylor when he first faced Kareem in the playoffs.


And yet he was still able to take a game off Kareem despite everyone predicting them be swept.
And when west finally came back next year, the lakers went on to another finals trip again huh? Interesting.

[Axe]

So? He beat an old man coming off a career ending knee surgery for most players at the time, Wilt got the better of him and the Big O despite being well over his hill and past his prime in their Final meeting

Kareem got molested on tape delayed television by Moses Malone so what the **** is he going to do against a more dominant physical center in his prime like Wilt? Nothing, not a god damn thing but keep trying to shoot fadeaways
Ofc. How do you expect kaj to keep up in banging with them to show who's really more dominant when it's quite given that he's kinda underweight for his own height? If only he was more heavier, then it's not far from reality to imagine he could also match those centers equally in terms of shear force. But still, that deficit alone, if you may consider so for his own position or size, didn't stop him at all from making ten trips to the finals. Winning six of them.

[coastalmarker99]

Honestly, it's hard to make a definitive case of how young Wilt would have to be not to be dominant in the 50's. That famous footage of Wilt catching a shot in mid-air, then coast to coasting, dishing and finishing the fast break was Wilt back in 1954, aged 17-18, 5-6 full years before his rookie season. This player already looks more impressive than a past prime Mikan, who was still the best player in that era, although this doesn't mean he'd be necessarily better, not to mention there was still no shot clock, which would somewhat suppress his overall stats (but would also inflate his "per possession" stats). 30+/20+ in the 3 year year period of 1957-59 and arguably best player in the league in the 1954-56 span is I think a realistic, if not conservative, estimation.


Wilt could have been playing in the NBA at 16 years old.



As I do know Red and the Celtics owner at the time were trying so hard to bribe Wilt and his family with large amounts of money,


For him to go to Harvard so they could draft him as they were completely amazed by his skills as he was dominating Red's Celtic players.



That's why Red hated Wilt so much as he was very bitter that Wilt rejected his offer and money in favour of going to Kansas.

[RogueBorg]

wilt dropped off a cliff after age 29 scoring wise.

Lebron dropped off a cliff after age 29 MVP and All-Defensive wise.

[Axe]

Lebron dropped off a cliff after age 29 MVP and All-Defensive wise.
What a great way to derail this thread. :facepalm