Jerry West has a serious case to be ranked over Kobe.

[coastalmarker99]

West Flatout destroys Kobe when it comes to game sevens and elimination games along with performing in the NBA finals.


And we are not even accounting for blocks or Steals which West would have racked up a lot of.


Here are Jerry West's game seven averages

4- 5 W-L record

30.9 PPG (Regular season career average is 27.0 ppg)

7.7 RPG (Regular season career average is 5.8 rpg)

6.8 APG (Regular season career average is 6.7 APG)

47.9 FG% (Regular season career average is 47.4 FG%)

TS% 54.3 Regular season career average is 54.9 TS%)


Here are Jerry West's elimination games averages

13 11 W-L record

29.3 PPG (Regular season career average is 27.0 ppg)

6.4 RPG (Regular season career average is 5.8 rpg)

6.4 APG (Regular season career average is 6.7 APG)

55% TS (Regular season career average is 54.9 TS%)



Here are Jerry West's finals averages

30.5 PPG (Regular season career average is 27.0 ppg)

5.0 RPG (Regular season career average is 5.8 rpg)

5.6 APG (Regular season career average is 6.7 APG)

45.9 FG% (Regular season career average is 47.4 FG%)

53.3% TS (Regular season career average is 54.9 TS%)




Here are Kobe's averages across the board in-game sevens and elimination games.

Game sevens

22.2 PPG (Regular season career average is 25.0 ppg)

8.0 RPG (Regular season career average is 5.2 rpg)

5.0 APG (Regular season career average is 4.7 APG)

1.3 BPG (Regular season career average is 0.5 BPG)

1.0 SPG (Regular season career average is 1.4 SPG)

FG% 38.9% (Regular season career average is 44.7%)

FT% 67.3%(Regular season career average is 83.7%)


Elimination games
9 10 W-L record

22.3 PPG (Regular season career average is 25.0 ppg)

5.8 RPG (Regular season career average is 5.2 rpg)

3.5 APG (Regular season career average is 4.7 APG)

1.3 BPG (Regular season career average is 0.5 BPG)

1.3 SPG (Regular season career average is 1.4 SPG)

FG 44.0%(Regular season career average is 44.7%)

TS% 50.3 (Regular season career average is 55.0%)



Finals

25.3 PPG (Regular season career average is 25.0 ppg)

5.7 RPG (Regular season career average is 5.2 rpg)

5.1 APG (Regular season career average is 4.7 APG)

0,9 BPG (Regular season career average is 0.5 BPG)

1.8 SPG (Regular season career average is 1.4 SPG)

FG 41.2%(Regular season career average is 44.7%)

TS% 50.7 (Regular season career average is 55.0%)


The only real argument for ranking Kobe over West is him winning 5 rings to West's one.


But does anyone actually think that Kobe wins more rings than West had they swapped places?

As West was putting up MJ numbers and his teams despite that we're still getting beaten by a dynasty that featured a top 5 GOAT player and 9 other HOFers during the 60s.

[Axe]

He also carried wilt to a ring during their days in hollywood.

[John8204]

Jerry West can be ranked #1 if we look at his 60 year career not just playing career.

[FultzNationRISE]

Wait, do people not already have him over Kobe??

I always have. :confusedshrug:

[SouBeachTalents]

Just in terms of resume, it’d be very difficult to rank West over Kobe. Kobe has more MVP’s, FMVP’s, All-NBA nods, All-Defensive teems (as fraudulent as they may be). It’s also difficult to compare numbers with the two of them playing 40 years apart, with West playing in a much higher scoring, up tempo league, and Kobe playing in a slower paced, more defensive one.

But even with the differences in era, the statistical gap between the two of them in the OP is too significant to ignore, or brush off merely due to era. Despite the ring disparity, West was unquestionably a better big game performer than Kobe who, for ATG standards, was mediocre in the Finals and pitiful when facing elimination.

[Rysio]

One played against slow white guys other played against the best athletes in the world. Jerry West would be a role player in kobes era.

[ImKobe]

He also carried wilt to a ring during their days in hollywood.

Carried? He shot 32.5%FG and averaged 19.8 ppg to Wilt's 19.4, who also averaged 23 rebounds a game and carried the defense & won the FMVP. West shot just 37.6%FG for the Playoffs, which was ~10% below his RS/Career average.

[Axe]

Carried? He shot 32.5%FG and averaged 19.8 ppg to Wilt's 19.4, who also averaged 23 rebounds a game and carried the defense & won the FMVP. West shot just 37.6%FG for the Playoffs, which was ~10% below his RS/Career average.
No west in the 1971 series against the bucks and the lakers never found a way to get past over them. 1972 saw west back and with urgency they got to the finals again, also beating the defending champs along the way.

[Shogon]

Just in terms of resume, it’d be very difficult to rank West over Kobe. Kobe has more MVP’s, FMVP’s, All-NBA nods, All-Defensive teems (as fraudulent as they may be). It’s also difficult to compare numbers with the two of them playing 40 years apart, with West playing in a much higher scoring, up tempo league, and Kobe playing in a slower paced, more defensive one.

But even with the differences in era, the statistical gap between the two of them in the OP is too significant to ignore, or brush off merely due to era. Despite the ring disparity, West was unquestionably a better big game performer than Kobe who, for ATG standards, was mediocre in the Finals and pitiful when facing elimination.

Yeah the Kobe all defensive teams are definitely some of the if not the most ridiculous recognition given out in my basketball viewing lifetime.

Kobe was probably last deserving of a 1st team all defense back in like the VERY early 2000s or something. By 2003 and on he was definitively not deserving of that accolade and yet he kept getting them until 2011.

Talk about living off of reputation and then turning on the defensive jets on nationally televised games / big matchups.

Ain't no way in hell he was year in and year out a deserving all defensive first team guard.

[ImKobe]

No west in the 1971 series against the bucks and the lakers never found a way to get past over them. 1972 saw west back and with urgency they got to the finals again, also beating the defending champs along the way.

Game 5 vs Bucks '72 WCF

Wilt - 12/26/6 2/3 FG 8/8 FT & held Kareem to 13/33 shooting
West - 22/3/10 7/15 FG

Game 6 vs Bucks '72 WCF

Wilt - 20/23/2 8/12 FG & held Kareem to 16/37 shooting
West - 25/8/9 8/29 FG

Wilt held Kareem to 202 points on 197 FGA/29 FTA for that series. Kareem averaged 57.4%FG/9 FTA in the RS. That's a masterclass on defense by Wilt that made all the difference. He blocked Kareem's skyhook 3 times on one possession I believe in that series. I wish we had the block numbers for Wilt's career because the unofficial numbers say his average could have been as high as 8.8 in the games they recorded with a 10-block game against Kareem in the '72 WCF.

[coastalmarker99]

Game 5 vs Bucks '72 WCF

Wilt - 12/26/6 2/3 FG 8/8 FT & held Kareem to 13/33 shooting
West - 22/3/10 7/15 FG

Game 6 vs Bucks '72 WCF

Wilt - 20/23/2 8/12 FG & held Kareem to 16/37 shooting
West - 25/8/9 8/29 FG

Wilt held Kareem to 202 points on 197 FGA/29 FTA for that series. Kareem averaged 57.4%FG/9 FTA in the RS. That's a masterclass on defense by Wilt that made all the difference. He blocked Kareem's skyhook 3 times on one possession I believe in that series. I wish we had the block numbers for Wilt's career because the unofficial numbers say his average could have been as high as 8.8 in the games they recorded with a 10-block game against Kareem in the '72 WCF.


Here are Wilt's full stats in the 1972 playoffs

1972 Western Conference Playoffs Lakers VS Bulls

GAME 3 16 PTS 14 REBS 9 BLKS

1972 Western Conference Finals Lakers VS Bucks

GAME 3 7 PTS 14 REBS 4 ASTS 10 BLKS

GAME 5 12 PTS 26 REBS 6 ASTS 11 BLKS

GAME 6 20 PTS 24 REBS 9 BLKS


1972 NBA FINALS LAKERS VS. KNICKS

GAME 1 12 PTS 19 REBS 0 BLKS

GAME 2 23 PTS 24 REBS 4 ASTS 8 BLKS

GAME 3 26 PTS 20 REBS 9 BLKS

GAME 4 12 PTS 24 REBS 12 BLKS

GAME 5 24 PTS 29 REBS 4 ASTS 8 BLKS

NBA FINALS AVERAGE 19.4 PTS 23.3 REBS 7.4 BLKS





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM7baVV3CbQ&t=103s

[RogueBorg]

West Flatout destroys Kobe when it comes to game sevens and elimination games along with performing in the NBA finals.


And we are not even accounting for blocks or Steals which West would have racked up a lot of.


Here are Jerry West's game seven averages

4- 5 W-L record

30.9 PPG (Regular season career average is 27.0 ppg)

7.7 RPG (Regular season career average is 5.8 rpg)

6.8 APG (Regular season career average is 6.7 APG)

47.9 FG% (Regular season career average is 47.4 FG%)

TS% 54.3 Regular season career average is 54.9 TS%)


Here are Jerry West's elimination games averages

13 11 W-L record

29.3 PPG (Regular season career average is 27.0 ppg)

6.4 RPG (Regular season career average is 5.8 rpg)

6.4 APG (Regular season career average is 6.7 APG)

55% TS (Regular season career average is 54.9 TS%)



Here are Jerry West's finals averages

30.5 PPG (Regular season career average is 27.0 ppg)

5.0 RPG (Regular season career average is 5.8 rpg)

5.6 APG (Regular season career average is 6.7 APG)

45.9 FG% (Regular season career average is 47.4 FG%)

53.3% TS (Regular season career average is 54.9 TS%)




Here are Kobe's averages across the board in-game sevens and elimination games.

Game sevens

22.2 PPG (Regular season career average is 25.0 ppg)

8.0 RPG (Regular season career average is 5.2 rpg)

5.0 APG (Regular season career average is 4.7 APG)

1.3 BPG (Regular season career average is 0.5 BPG)

1.0 SPG (Regular season career average is 1.4 SPG)

FG% 38.9% (Regular season career average is 44.7%)

FT% 67.3%(Regular season career average is 83.7%)


Elimination games
9 10 W-L record

22.3 PPG (Regular season career average is 25.0 ppg)

5.8 RPG (Regular season career average is 5.2 rpg)

3.5 APG (Regular season career average is 4.7 APG)

1.3 BPG (Regular season career average is 0.5 BPG)

1.3 SPG (Regular season career average is 1.4 SPG)

FG 44.0%(Regular season career average is 44.7%)

TS% 50.3 (Regular season career average is 55.0%)



Finals

25.3 PPG (Regular season career average is 25.0 ppg)

5.7 RPG (Regular season career average is 5.2 rpg)

5.1 APG (Regular season career average is 4.7 APG)

0,9 BPG (Regular season career average is 0.5 BPG)

1.8 SPG (Regular season career average is 1.4 SPG)

FG 41.2%(Regular season career average is 44.7%)

TS% 50.7 (Regular season career average is 55.0%)


The only real argument for ranking Kobe over West is him winning 5 rings to West's one.


But does anyone actually think that Kobe wins more rings than West had they swapped places?

As West was putting up MJ numbers and his teams despite that we're still getting beaten by a dynasty that featured a top 5 GOAT player and 9 other HOFers during the 60s.

You can't compare the 60's to the 2000's in terms of scoring averages.

[999Guy]

Jerry West was basically the guard version of Kawhi.

Him being better than Kobe is not really big news. Kobe was never as consistent or resilient or as smart, or as disciplined as West as far as defense and team play. On top of West being really crafty at drawing fouls off his pull up game like a bigger KD/Kawhi type wing.


And the superior defense to top it off? Not a big statement. Kobe was literally West’s son in many respects.

Guards/wings Kobe was worse than - possibly/probably on both ends, PEAKS:

Kawhi
Harden
Paul
West
Jordan
LeBron
Curry
Magic
Nash
Bird


More or less level with:

Luka
Wade
KD
DR. J
Oscar

Kobe’s in the bottom half of the top 15 or so perimeter peaks.

I’m willing to hear a debate or two about Curry, Magic or Nash, maybe. But probably not. All 3 got smoked at a time as far as defense, even at peaks. Kobe kind’ve upped his playoff defense a bit. But it was just a bit.

Funnily enough I’m more than sure Kobe is worse than players like Paul and Harden because of how close his career is to theirs, it’s just easy to decipher if you know what to look for. Guys like Oscar and DR. J I’m less sure about but enough to compare weaknesses, which is really more important than strengths usually in these discussions.

[SouBeachTalents]

Jerry West was basically the guard version of Kawhi.

Him being better than Kobe is not really big news. Kobe was never as consistent or resilient or as smart, or as disciplined as West as far as defense and team play. On top of West being really crafty at drawing fouls off his pull up game like a bigger KD/Kawhi type wing.


And the superior defense to top it off? Not a big statement. Kobe was literally West’s son in many respects.

Guards/wings Kobe was worse than - possibly/probably on both ends, PEAKS:

Kawhi
Harden
Paul
West
Jordan
LeBron
Curry
Magic
Nash
Bird


More or less level with:

Luka
Wade
KD
DR. J
Oscar

Kobe’s in the bottom half of the top 15 or so perimeter peaks.

I’m willing to hear a debate or two about Curry, Magic or Nash, maybe. But probably not. All 3 got smoked at a time as far as defense, even at peaks. Kobe kind’ve upped his playoff defense a bit. But it was just a bit.

Funnily enough I’m more than sure Kobe is worse than players like Paul and Harden because of how close his career is to theirs, it’s just easy to decipher if you know what to look for. Guys like Oscar and DR. J I’m less sure about but enough to compare weaknesses, which is really more important than strengths usually in these discussions.
A top 10 perimeter peaks list would actually be really hard to make. If I had to narrow it down as much as I could, these would be the guys I’d really consider.

Jordan
LeBron
Bird
Magic
Kobe
Dr. J
Oscar
West
Durant
Curry
Wade
Kawhi

[Manny98]

You're comparing stats for players that literally played 40 years apart

Basketball was literally a completely different sport back then I think it's unfair to compare stats from that era to players today

[tpols]

Using only Game 7s and Finals is like using 1% of the data to make a total career analysis. That's not making a case unfortunately.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Using only Game 7s and Finals is like using 1% of the data to make a total career analysis. That's not making a case unfortunately.

Fortunately West had much better regular season and playoff stats than Kobe career wise also. Wasn't carried by Shaq though, or given unwarranted accolades to boost his resume. But the better player and career by far.

[GOATKawhi_2]

You can have as much stats as you like but the point is to win the f'n game. Jerry West failed to do that, over and over again in the finals. When he finally did win the title in 1972, he played like shit through out the playoffs (his fg% was embarrassing outside of like the 1st round) and his advanced stats were also horrid.

So I have to credit Kobe for being better in 2001, 2009, 2010 then Jerry West ever was.

I would say Jerry West could of won MVP in 1972 reg season. His playoff chokes and no mvps kicks him out of top 20 in my opinion, probably even top 30.

[ClipperRevival]

You can't compare their numbers head to head. West played in the highest paced era ever while Kobe played in some of the slowest. It's comparing apples to oranges.

[ClipperRevival]

PPG, RPG from the 1960's are so inflated.

Case in point? Elgin Baylor, a 6'5" guard averaged 13.5 RPG for his CAREER.

[Axe]

You can have as much stats as you like but the point is to win the f'n game. Jerry West failed to do that, over and over again in the finals. When he finally did win the title in 1972, he played like shit through out the playoffs (his fg% was embarrassing outside of like the 1st round) and his advanced stats were also horrid.

So I have to credit Kobe for being better in 2001, 2009, 2010 then Jerry West ever was.

I would say Jerry West could of won MVP in 1972 reg season. His playoff chokes and no mvps kicks him out of top 20 in my opinion, probably even top 30.
Got banned again in your kawhi jaw dup? :lol

[La Frescobaldi]

You can have as much stats as you like but the point is to win the f'n game. Jerry West failed to do that, over and over again in the finals. When he finally did win the title in 1972, he played like shit through out the playoffs (his fg% was embarrassing outside of like the 1st round) and his advanced stats were also horrid.

So I have to credit Kobe for being better in 2001, 2009, 2010 then Jerry West ever was.

I would say Jerry West could of won MVP in 1972 reg season. His playoff chokes and no mvps kicks him out of top 20 in my opinion, probably even top 30.

This is one of the worst, most ignorant comments of all time not just on ish but the whole internet.

[ImKobe]

You can have as much stats as you like but the point is to win the f'n game. Jerry West failed to do that, over and over again in the finals. When he finally did win the title in 1972, he played like shit through out the playoffs (his fg% was embarrassing outside of like the 1st round) and his advanced stats were also horrid.

So I have to credit Kobe for being better in 2001, 2009, 2010 then Jerry West ever was.

I would say Jerry West could of won MVP in 1972 reg season. His playoff chokes and no mvps kicks him out of top 20 in my opinion, probably even top 30.

He's top 20 for historic reasons but the Lakers had more mediocre seasons with him than people care to admit. He happened to play in a lot of Finals because he wasn't in the same Division as the Celtics and he only needed to win 1-2 series to get to the Finals & still lost 7(?) of them in a row. The Western Division/Conference wasn't good for a large part of his career as well as they moved the Royals to the East Division in the early 60s & Wilt forced his way to Philly as well so the Lakers were basically a Finals lock every year until Kareem came along & teamed up with Oscar. At some point you have to penalize players for losing too many Finals if we're getting into the all-time GOAT talks.

[iamgine]

Back then, the road to the finals is often only 1 series against a team who only won 30ish games.

For example, these are the teams Jerry West's Lakers beat to reach his first 4 finals

'62 Piston - 37 wins
'63 Hawks - 48 wins
'65 Bullets - 37 wins
'66 Hawks - 36 wins

This is like only needing to beat this season's Charlotte Hornets to reach the finals every season.