Flash Wade... Westbrook... MJ... Lebron isn't "faster" than these guys

[3ba11]

.

* bigger

* presumably stronger

* NOT faster (MUCH slower infact)


Saying Lebron is faster represents one of the most obvious aspects of the fraud along with colluding on national tv (the "decision" to stack the deck).

Lebron is fast for his build (big man) but not for guards - his speed is probably less than Klay Thompson and nowhere near guys like Westbrook, Flash Wade or MJ..

Heck, Lebron is too big, bulky and slow to run off screens or chase Reggie Miller and Rip Hamilton off screens - so he can't play or defend the off-guard position (can't play all 5 positions and can't play an entire branch of basketball - off-ball movement)

Furthermore, learning the best brand and chemistry in the league is required of all organic winners, so Lebron never learned superior brand (how to win) and only learned talent-based winning (team-hopping.. all-star team strategy)..

It's a disgrace to basketball that people have annointed a fraud at #2 that literally doesn't know how to win - the biggest fraud in sports history on so many levels.

[ShawkFactory]

The “speed” of Lebron always applies to his ability to run in a straight line in the open court. Very few people can/could cover 94 feet that fast.

Those long strides.

Of course he doesn’t have the lateral quickness/short area burst than some of the smaller GOAT athletes have.

[3ba11]

The “speed” of Lebron always applies to his ability to run in a straight line in the open court. Very few people can/could cover 94 feet like he could.

Those long strides.

Of course he doesn’t have the lateral quickness/short area burst than some of the smaller GOAT athletes have.


He doesn't go end to end like Westbrook, Flash or Jordan.. that's absurd.. people are simply impressed that a big man can run that fast so they exaggerate.. It's human nature.

But Jordan was called a cat for his quickness

Can Lebron run a 40 yard dash in 4.3 like MJ did and Wade/Westbrook are probably close to it?

Of course not

Lebron's 40 yard dash is probably 4.7 ish or dam-near 5 seconds... He's too big to be anywhere near as fast as MJ, so you guys are literally dumb and/or liars

[ShawkFactory]

He doesn't go end to end like Westbrook, Flash or Jordan.

Jordan was called a cat for his quickness

Can he run a 40 yard dash in 4.3 like MJ did and Wade/Westbrook are probably close to it?

Of course not

Lebron's 40 yard dash is probably 4.7 ish or dam-near 5 seconds... He's too big to be anywhere near as fast as MJ, so you guys are literally dumb and/or liars

I remember Lebron ran a 4.6 in the summer of 2013 when he weighed like 260. I'd assume it was faster in his early 20s before he put on those extra 20 or so pounds.

But as I've already stated, of course he doesn't have the short area burst that smaller guys have. That would be impossible. That first step is very important in a 40 yards dash.

So his top end speed is absolutely comparable with the guys you mentioned. In basketball you're usually afforded a walking or even jogging start before reaching full speed in the open court. So the 40 time, which is heavily dependent on first step, isn't really relevant.

And his size/strength advantage makes his speed in the open court more impactful.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Oh here we go.... another thread where OP gets embarrassed pants around ankles style...

Let the chasedown vids and countless other vids commence to showcase rhe greatest athlete in human history

Good going OP :oldlol:

[tpols]

Lebrons straight line speed is better than Jordan's. MJ has much quicker burst, and much better vertical versatility... but I've been thoroughly unimpressed with his sprinting striding velocity.

There s a reason the fastest man in the world is the biggest and tallest ~ Usain Bolt. All his competitors are juiced up 5'11-6'0 guys who are super muscled Built for acceleration. Where as his longer stronger frame allows him to pull away tremendously after 30 or 40 feet.

In basketball though acceleration is >> velocity. Because most high stakes scenarios that lead to winning take place in the half court where a running start isn't affordable.

[3ba11]

I remember Lebron ran a 4.6 in the summer of 2013 when he weighed like 260.





^^^ so peak Lebron's 4.6 was much slower than Jordan's 4.3 (https://www.google.com/search?q=michael+jordan+40+yard+dash&oq=Michael+Jordan+40+yard&aqs=chrome.0.0i512j69i57j0i22i30j0i390l2.8551j1j4&client=ms-android-americamovil-us-revc&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8)

Thanks for confirming the OP with cold-hard data about Lebron's inferior speed during his peak.

The Last Dance showed 35-year Jordan demolishing Pippen in sprints during practice, and Lebron would be the same - the "Pippen" in every way alongside MJ






So his top end speed is absolutely comparable with the guys you mentioned. In basketball you're usually afforded a walking or even jogging start before reaching full speed in the open court. So the 40 time, which is heavily dependent on first step, isn't really relevant.





40-yard is relevant because the basketball court is even shorter than 40 yards, so first step is everything - this makes you wrong and 100% lost the argument..






And his size/strength advantage makes his speed in the open court more impactful.





Okay this is where you have something

Lebron's abnormal speed for his size wears the SHIT out of opponents running the floor, which wins the attrition battle - aka wears down opponent defensively, so they have less capacity on offense as the game or series progresses.

When I was at FIU, I remember defending a 6'10" guy from the Dominican that was built like KG - super-talented and ran the floor like a deer - I've never been more tired than defending this guy in scrimmages - I would have to lay it up instead of dunk because I was so tired defending the higher level of talent that this guy had

Nonetheless, despite Lebron's individual ability to wear down defenders, he lacks various key skills that prevent his TEAMS from wearing down opponents sufficiently - Lebron's teams always face the freshest offenses (requiring max defense) because Lebron's frontcourt ball-dominance fails to wear out defenses like the superior movement and shooting that he faces .. So opponents are always fresher with more capacity to go off offensively as a game or series progresses.. Indeed, Lebron loses most playoff series by losing the last 3 games in a row as the opponent pops off (solved brand and lost attrition battle).

[nineiron]

.

* bigger

* presumably stronger

* NOT faster (MUCH slower infact)


Saying Lebron is faster represents one of the most obvious aspects of the fraud along with colluding on national tv (the "decision" to stack the deck).

Lebron is fast for his build (big man) but not for guards - his speed is probably less than Klay Thompson and nowhere near guys like Westbrook, Flash Wade or MJ..

Heck, Lebron is too big, bulky and slow to run off screens or chase Reggie Miller and Rip Hamilton off screens - so he can't play or defend the off-guard position (can't play all 5 positions and can't play an entire branch of basketball - off-ball movement)

Furthermore, learning the best brand and chemistry in the league is required of all organic winners, so Lebron never learned superior brand (how to win) and only learned talent-based winning (team-hopping.. all-star team strategy)..

It's a disgrace to basketball that people have annointed a fraud at #2 that literally doesn't know how to win - the biggest fraud in sports history on so many levels.

yeah, i don't know why bran stans are always saying this "bigger, stronger, faster" BS.

like being bigger and stronger (by itself) helps in basketball. how has it helped Curry or KD?

maybe if your game relies on travelling and committing offensive fouls (like Giannis and LeRoid), it helps. but for most skilled players, it doesn't matter.

and you're right, LeRoid wasn't ever that fast. and with the ball, he's slow AF.

[ShawkFactory]

^^^ so peak Lebron's 4.6 was much slower than Jordan's 4.3 (https://www.google.com/search?q=michael+jordan+40+yard+dash&oq=Michael+Jordan+40+yard&aqs=chrome.0.0i512j69i57j0i22i30j0i390l2.8551j1j4&client=ms-android-americamovil-us-revc&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8)

Thanks for confirming the OP with cold-hard data about Lebron's inferior speed during his peak.

The Last Dance showed 35-year Jordan demolishing Pippen in sprints during practice, and Lebron would be the same - the "Pippen" in every way alongside MJ






40-yard is relevant because the basketball court is even shorter than 40 yards, so first step is everything - this makes you wrong and 100% lost the argument..






Okay this is where you have something

Lebron's abnormal speed for his size wears the SHIT out of opponents running the floor, which wins the attrition battle - aka wears down opponent defensively, so they have less capacity on offense as the game or series progresses.

When I was at FIU, I remember defending a 6'10" guy from the Dominican that was built like KG - super-talented and ran the floor like a deer - I've never been more tired than defending this guy in scrimmages - I would have to lay it up instead of dunk because I was so tired defending the higher level of talent that this guy had

Nonetheless, despite Lebron's individual ability to wear down defenders, he lacks various key skills that prevent his TEAMS from wearing down opponents sufficiently - Lebron's teams always face the freshest offenses (requiring max defense) because Lebron's frontcourt ball-dominance fails to wear out defenses like the superior movement and shooting that he faces .. So opponents are always fresher with more capacity to go off offensively as a game or series progresses.. Indeed, Lebron loses most playoff series by losing the last 3 games in a row (solved brand and lost attrition battle).

Wasn’t Jordan’s 4.38 when he was in college? Peak Lebron doesn’t mean peak speed. 2006 Lebron was faster than 2013.

You know this of course. You’re just being difficult.

40 time isn’t relevant. It is heavily dependent on first step from a crouched position. It’s common knowledge that bigger/taller guys run slower 40s but it doesn’t necessarily make them slower on the field when they can either accelerate from a standing position or get a stride to start before sprinting full speed.

You this too.

[3ba11]

Lebrons straight line speed is better than Jordan's. MJ has much quicker burst, and much better vertical versatility... but I've been thoroughly unimpressed with his sprinting striding velocity.

There s a reason the fastest man in the world is the biggest and tallest ~ Usain Bolt. All his competitors are juiced up 5'11-6'0 guys who are super muscled Built for acceleration. Where as his longer stronger frame allows him to pull away tremendously after 30 or 40 feet.

In basketball though acceleration is >> velocity. Because most high stakes scenarios that lead to winning take place in the half court where a running start isn't affordable.


Nonsense.. Shaq, Robinson, Wilt - these guys aren't faster than Lebron just because they're taller just like Lebron isn't faster than MJ for being taller

Lebron would blow by a big like Robinson or Wilt just like MJ, Wade, Westbrook or Rose would run by Lebron

Lebron couldn't even chase down old Kobe in the all-star game

And Bolt is #1 because he's built like MJ, not because he's bulky and roided up like Bron.. you made my point..

[3ba11]

Wasn’t Jordan’s 4.38 when he was in college? Peak Lebron doesn’t mean peak speed. 2006 Lebron was faster than 2013.

You know this of course. You’re just being difficult.

40 time isn’t relevant. It is heavily dependent on first step from a crouched position. It’s common knowledge that bigger/taller guys run slower 40s but it doesn’t necessarily make them slower on the field when they can either accelerate from a standing position or get a stride to start before sprinting full speed.

You this too.


You've never seen Lebron run outside of a basketball court so you're just making shit up about longer distances.. like a robot.. lying for Lebron.

Ultimately, 4.3 is faster than Lebron and your feelings about longer distances aren't backed by numbers or logic or relevant to basketball, which is what we're talking about here.

You're actually saying that Lebron's top speed is world-class, which is preposterous for someone his size and weight.. Thousands of shorter sprinters would run by his top speed - actually they wouldn't because they'd already be ahead of him...

big guys aren't as fast as smaller guys and this has been true since the beginning of time.. there's obviously a bunch of non-athletes on here.. Otoh, I'm still dunking at my age

[3ba11]

.
Thread Cliffs

The guy built like Usain Bolt with the 4.3 forty speed is faster than any 250 pound man

[tpols]

Nonsense.. Shaq, Robinson, Wilt - these guys aren't faster than Lebron just because they're taller just like Lebron isn't faster than MJ for being taller

Lebron would blow by a big like Robinson or Wilt just like MJ, Wade, Westbrook or Rose would run by Lebron

Lebron couldn't even chase down old Kobe in the all-star game

And Bolt is #1 because he's built like MJ, not because he's bulky and roided up like Bron.. you made my point..

Exactly. "Blow by". That's acceleration. A smaller athlete always has better acceleration. Were talking about VELOCITY aka speed. Which is what "fast" is. There's a difference between quick and fast (acceleration vs velocity)

Wilt is known for being a freak in the open court when he was young. When you have longer strides and similar strength after 4-5 steps to get momentum going your strides will supercede any advantage a shorter guy had on you. They'll be winning at first but ultimately lose.

[ShawkFactory]

You've never seen Lebron run outside of a basketball court so you're just making shit up about longer distances.. like a robot.. lying for Lebron.

Ultimately, 4.3 is faster than Lebron and your feelings about longer distances aren't backed by numbers or logic or relevant to basketball, which is what we're talking about here.

You're actually saying that Lebron's top speed is world-class, which is preposterous for someone his size and weight.. Thousands of shorter sprinters would run by his top speed - actually they wouldn't because they'd already be ahead of him...

big guys aren't as fast as smaller guys and this has been true since the beginning of time.. there's obviously a bunch of non-athletes on here.. Otoh, I'm still dunking at my age

Like a robot you aren’t understanding what a human is saying to you.

It’s not about distance ran, it’s about starting position and stride. Football players rarely run more than 40 yards either. Excelling at the 40 requires an elite first step. Something big guys don’t have at the same level. In the open field/open court they’re starting either standing or already in stride.

[nineiron]

Exactly. "Blow by". That's acceleration. A smaller athlete always has better acceleration. Were talking about VELOCITY aka speed. Which is what "fast" is. There's a difference between quick and fast (acceleration vs velocity)

Wilt is known for being a freak in the open court when he was young. When you have longer strides and similar strength after 4-5 steps to get momentum going your strides will supercede any advantage a shorter guy had on you. They'll be winning at first but ultimately lose.

Basketball court ain’t that long

[PP34Deuce]

In a straight line. Very few guards can Match lebron in an all out sprint.

Laterally he's never been super fast but end to end??? I would put money 24 year old lebron outrun wade MJ and is neck to neck with John wall who is very fast.

Half the time lebron doesn't even full put sprint. He's so fast he can change his acceleration to time blocks and plays

[999Guy]

He doesn't go end to end like Westbrook, Flash or Jordan.. that's absurd.. people are simply impressed that a big man can run that fast so they exaggerate.. It's human nature.

But Jordan was called a cat for his quickness

Can Lebron run a 40 yard dash in 4.3 like MJ did and Wade/Westbrook are probably close to it?

Of course not

Lebron's 40 yard dash is probably 4.7 ish or dam-near 5 seconds... He's too big to be anywhere near as fast as MJ, so you guys are literally dumb and/or liars

Which LeBron are you babbling about here? 24 year old LeBron? Or 37?

24 year old Bron was endline to endline fastest on the court fast. Fastest in the league fast? I mean no but Jordan wasn’t either.


Jordan was way way quicker than normal. Probably quickest in the league quick. But his top speed wasn’t shit to talk about like this.

[Baller789]

Lebron might be faster on a straight line. Who knows really?
But I'd take superior laterals and quickness over that for basketball.
I wasn't the fastest player on the court, but I had good laterals to keep up on D and could shake my defender and create space. That is way more useful in my experience.

[Manny98]

Young LeBron was definitely faster than MJ in a straight line

[3ba11]

Young LeBron was definitely faster than MJ in a straight line


No it's already been established by ShawkFactory earlier itt that Lebron's 40-yard dash is only 4.6 to Jordan's 4.3

So Jordan is faster on a basketball court (which is less than 40 yards) - anything longer is lies and fabrications because we've never seen Lebron run outside a basketball court.

Lebron is simply faster than guys his size, so his chasedown blocks are noticed more and people somehow thinks this makes him the "fastest", smh... But he only has all-time speed for a big man, not a guard - guys like Wall, Westbrook, Wade or MJ blow him away and it isn't close

[3ba11]

Lebrons straight line speed is better than Jordan's.





Based on what?

Jordan has the better 40-yard speed, so what are you referring to?

[ClipperRevival]

MJ was about as fast as ANYONE in the open court. I dare anyone to show me a collection of clips eclipsing this vid.


https://youtu.be/CAwQjDQUs6c

[ShawkFactory]

Leandro Barbosa was the fastest straight line dude I've seen I think. I wonder if he had some looks playing soccer.

I know it's not the same, you actually have to be skilled but dude could fly.

[tpols]

Based on what?

Jordan has the better 40-yard speed, so what are you referring to?

I'm refering to the eye test. The same way we apply context to brand of ball. LeBron has absurd top speed velocity. MJ? He wasn't that impressive in that regard. GOAT agility and quickness sure. He often slithered and probed around finding angles to get his bucket (which takes more skill) LeBron could just straight up take off like a rocket at the hoop and his momentum was so powerful he didn't even need to be creative.

[Johnny32]

MJ was about as fast as ANYONE in the open court. I dare anyone to show me a collection of clips eclipsing this vid.


https://youtu.be/CAwQjDQUs6c

lmao he's not even close to first cle stint lebron.

[Baller789]

I'm refering to the eye test. The same way we apply context to brand of ball. LeBron has absurd top speed velocity. MJ? He wasn't that impressive in that regard. GOAT agility and quickness sure. He often slithered and probed around finding angles to get his bucket (which takes more skill) LeBron could just straight up take off like a rocket at the hoop and his momentum was so powerful he didn't even need to be creative.

Well I wouldn't say you are right or wrong.

But I don't think judging straight line speed by the eye test is accurate at all because we would usually be favoring the bigger guys because it's "more impressive" but not necessarily faster.

[Shogon]

Baseline to baseline, WITH the ball, I doubt there are many if any people in NBA history that could outrun LeBron.

LeBron's first Cleveland era... well... let's just say there were days the guy looked like a video game in the open court.

There are a **** ton of things to knock LeBron for but his speed isn't one of them, lmao. You'd have to be brain dead to think it is.

[Baller789]

Baseline to baseline, WITH the ball, I doubt there are many if any people in NBA history that could outrun LeBron.

LeBron's first Cleveland era... well... let's just say there were days the guy looked like a video game in the open court.

There are a **** ton of things to knock LeBron for but his speed isn't one of them, lmao. You'd have to be brain dead to think it is.

I'd take Iverson over him on end to end speed.

[Shogon]

I'd take Iverson over him on end to end speed.


With the ball? No chance.

[90sgoat]

Lebron maybe and it's a big maybe, has slightly higher peak speed, but starting from the midcourt, there's no doubt in my mind MJ would win.

[3ba11]

I'm refering to the eye test. The same way we apply context to brand of ball. LeBron has absurd top speed velocity. MJ? He wasn't that impressive in that regard. GOAT agility and quickness sure. He often slithered and probed around finding angles to get his bucket (which takes more skill) LeBron could just straight up take off like a rocket at the hoop and his momentum was so powerful he didn't even need to be creative.


Lebron is slow compared to Jordan based on eye test and his velocity is much less than Shaq's or Giannis so I don't see the point

We aren't talking about physical force - we're talking sheer speed and no heavy person has world-class speed - Lebron isn't going to be as fast as Jordan, Wade, Wall or anyone of that speed

I honestly think this is just a case of the media telling everyone something, and everyone believing it without any evidence to support it.. Jordan's 40 time is much faster, so his top speed is faster - he made chasedown blocks look easy and Lebron's bigger size makes them look hard - that's all it is.. like a cheetah compared to a heavier lion

[Baller789]

With the ball? No chance.

Yes with ball.
Don't let your bias deceive you.

[Shogon]

Yes with ball.
Don't let your bias deceive you.

What bias?

LeBron has holes in his game. He's too ball dominant. He's scared of the clutch half the time and he should have put more work into his free throw shooting or seeing a psychologist over the years.

Allen Iverson wouldn't beat him baseline to baseline with the ball. I'm not sure anyone ever would.

Half court? Sure, Iverson all day. Same with Jordan. More explosive first steps. The list of first steps better than LeBron goes on and on.

Top speed with the ball? Nah, he's the top of that list.

LeBron is a top 3 athlete in NBA history alongside Shaq and Wilt.

[ClipperRevival]

Lebrons straight line speed is better than Jordan's. MJ has much quicker burst, and much better vertical versatility... but I've been thoroughly unimpressed with his sprinting striding velocity.

There s a reason the fastest man in the world is the biggest and tallest ~ Usain Bolt. All his competitors are juiced up 5'11-6'0 guys who are super muscled Built for acceleration. Where as his longer stronger frame allows him to pull away tremendously after 30 or 40 feet.

In basketball though acceleration is >> velocity. Because most high stakes scenarios that lead to winning take place in the half court where a running start isn't affordable.

LOL.

Kill yourself ignorant fu*k.

[3ba11]

.

Allen Iverson wouldn't beat him baseline to baseline with the ball.





You guys please stop

You obviously never played a lick

Statements like these expose that

The media simply lies about Lebron - 25-year Lebron would get destroyed end to end by about 100 different players

you have no clue what you're talking about

[ClipperRevival]

Basketball court ain’t that long

This tpols kid doesn't realize a 40 yard dash is 120 feet while a bball court is 94 feet.

Kid is talking out of his ass LOL.

[Shogon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gmqy1eoKy04

Peep that dunk at 1:23. Nobody else in NBA history can get there.

[Shogon]

You guys please stop

You obviously never played a lick

Statements like these expose that

The media simply lies about Lebron - 25-year Lebron would get destroyed end to end by about 100 different players

you have no clue what you're talking about

With the ball, dipshit.

[Baller789]

What bias?

LeBron has holes in his game. He's too ball dominant. He's scared of the clutch half the time and he should have put more work into his free throw shooting or seeing a psychologist over the years.

Allen Iverson wouldn't beat him baseline to baseline with the ball. I'm not sure anyone ever would.

Half court? Sure, Iverson all day. Same with Jordan. More explosive first steps. The list of first steps better than LeBron goes on and on.

Top speed with the ball? Nah, he's the top of that list.

LeBron is a top 3 athlete in NBA history alongside Shaq and Wilt.

Bias on the aesthetic of bigmen running at full steam.

Do you have any validated proof that Lebron is faster other than opinion?

[ClipperRevival]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gmqy1eoKy04

Peep that dunk at 1:23. Nobody else in NBA history can get there.

Is that clip a joke? Nothing special bro. Show me a sustained clip of like 4 minutes of Bron blazing down the court that trumps MJ's speed. SHOW ME.

[Johnny32]

https://streamable.com/blb67c

lol he's at the dotted line in the paint at 9:07 on the game clock and in the air ready to dunk at 9:05.

[Manny98]

No it's already been established by ShawkFactory earlier itt that Lebron's 40-yard dash is only 4.6 to Jordan's 4.3

So Jordan is faster on a basketball court (which is less than 40 yards) - anything longer is lies and fabrications because we've never seen Lebron run outside a basketball court.

Lebron is simply faster than guys his size, so his chasedown blocks are noticed more and people somehow thinks this makes him the "fastest", smh... But he only has all-time speed for a big man, not a guard - guys like Wall, Westbrook, Wade or MJ blow him away and it isn't close
He said in the Summer of 2013 when he weighed 260

During his first stint in Cleveland he was lighter than that and visibly faster than he was in Miami

Young LeBron was a physical freak of nature, arguably a bigger freak than any athlete ever

[ClipperRevival]

https://streamable.com/blb67c

lol he's at the dotted line in the paint at 9:07 on the game clock and in the air ready to dunk at 9:05.

Cool.

Now show me 5 more minutes of this. I showed you evidence of MJ doing it for 4 minutes. SHOW ME!

[Johnny32]

https://streamable.com/blb67c

lol he's at the dotted line in the paint at 9:07 on the game clock and in the air ready to dunk at 9:05.

now go watch the laughable transition defense of the 80s and tell me he wouldn't avg 40 ppg on 60% shooting.

[Shogon]

https://streamable.com/blb67c

lol he's at the dotted line in the paint at 9:07 on the game clock and in the air ready to dunk at 9:05.

Yeah there was a 2 to 4 year stretch there where he was probably the most impressive athlete in NBA history.

I dunno though, Shaq was a beast and so was Wilt.

[Baller789]

He said in the Summer of 2013 when he weighed 260

During his first stint in Cleveland he was lighter than that and visibly faster than he was in Miami

Young LeBron was a physical freak of nature, arguably a bigger freak than any athlete ever

Not really

I'd take Wilt over him.

[SouBeachTalents]

LOL.

Kill yourself ignorant fu*k.
https://media.giphy.com/media/hIdxrNaszEvQ5XRcVR/giphy.gif

[ShawkFactory]

No it's already been established by ShawkFactory earlier itt that Lebron's 40-yard dash is only 4.6 to Jordan's 4.3

So Jordan is faster on a basketball court (which is less than 40 yards) - anything longer is lies and fabrications because we've never seen Lebron run outside a basketball court.

Lebron is simply faster than guys his size, so his chasedown blocks are noticed more and people somehow thinks this makes him the "fastest", smh... But he only has all-time speed for a big man, not a guard - guys like Wall, Westbrook, Wade or MJ blow him away and it isn't close

Wow you're really good at blatantly ignoring what someone says.

[Baller789]

Cool.

Now show me 5 more minutes of this. I showed you evidence of MJ doing it for 4 minutes. SHOW ME!


now go watch the laughable transition defense of the 80s and tell me he wouldn't avg 40 ppg on 60% shooting.

Johnny32 why you moving the goalposts?

[Johnny32]

Cool.

Now show me 5 more minutes of this. I showed you evidence of MJ doing it for 4 minutes. SHOW ME!

what kind of tard logic is this? show me mj doing anything close to that open court speed.

[Full Court]

I really couldn't care less who's faster than who. This ain't track and field.

Faster, slower, whatever...MJ is clearly the better basketball player.

[ClipperRevival]

what kind of tard logic is this? show me mj doing anything close to that open court speed.

I did babyboi. That vid clip. If you don't want to watch it and pre-judge, that's on you.

[Johnny32]

I did babyboi. That vid clip. If you don't want to watch it and pre-judge, that's on you.

i watched it when it happened and i watched the clip and you're in denial. plain and simple.

[Round Mound]

Barkley was better than bron at coast to coasts and finishing with a dunk. He could also move better lateraly than bron and does not look stiff in his movements.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRKI3FY1xfk

[Baller789]

Barkley was better than bron at coast to coasts and finishing with a dunk. He could also move better lateraly than bron and does not look stiff in his movements.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRKI3FY1xfk

Prime Barkley was a bad man.

[3ba11]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gmqy1eoKy04

Peep that dunk at 1:23. Nobody else in NBA history can get there.


Think of it this way.. if you walked into a gym and saw 80's Karl Malone on his fastest day running end-to-end with the ball, you'd be like "wow, he's pretty damn fast"... Now imagine if Karl was actually running slightly faster than he's capable - that's Lebron - he's faster than Karl Malone and his guard-like handle makes his big frame look even faster.. But as fast as little guards? Are you guys crazy?

[Johnny32]

Barkley was better than bron at coast to coasts and finishing with a dunk. He could also move better lateraly than bron and does not look stiff in his movements.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRKI3FY1xfk

LeROFL.

[FultzNationRISE]

I really couldn't care less who's faster than who. This ain't track and field.


This.

Faster, slower, whatever... Bron is clearly the better basketball player.

[Full Court]

This.

Faster, slower, whatever... Bron is clearly the better basketball player.

:lol

Than Westbrook. I'll grant you that.

[ClipperRevival]

https://media.giphy.com/media/hIdxrNaszEvQ5XRcVR/giphy.gif

Tru dat.

When I see something so blatantly false about MJ, I can overreact.

Tpols is a vet on this board, didn't mean no disrespect.

[3ba11]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gmqy1eoKy04

Peep that dunk at 1:23. Nobody else in NBA history can get there.


^^^ that's slow compared to this:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SQH7_BW9hCI&t=06m58s


Or this:

https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-02-2022/tn5SEp.gif


On what planet is Lebron faster - we know he has a slower 40

[Round Mound]

^^^ that's slow compared to this:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SQH7_BW9hCI&t=06m58s


Or this:

https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-02-2022/tn5SEp.gif


On what planet is Lebron faster - we know he has a slower 40

As Barkle said...Michael had the best basketball body ever. People also don´t know how strong MJ was too. They see him skinny but he was monster natually strong body wise.

[PP34Deuce]

A lot of you guys confuse speed acceleration and quickness.

It's established rose MJ all are quicker.

Lebron on fast breaks without a ball could get to rose rondo and other uber athletic guards. He's faster end to end.

4.3 is elite speed. Jordan wasn't running 4.3 4.3 is calvin Johnson speed. I'd believe 4.5 4.6. Anyone who plays ball knows if you are 6 4 and sub 4.4 you'd be recruited for football

[HoopsNY]

A lot of you guys confuse speed acceleration and quickness.

It's established rose MJ all are quicker.

Lebron on fast breaks without a ball could get to rose rondo and other uber athletic guards. He's faster end to end.

4.3 is elite speed. Jordan wasn't running 4.3 4.3 is calvin Johnson speed. I'd believe 4.5 4.6. Anyone who plays ball knows if you are 6 4 and sub 4.4 you'd be recruited for football

He came into the league with a 4.3 40. This isn't to say that he sustained that speed for his entire career, especially post 1992, MJ slowed down tremendously. But earlier on in his career he was lightning fast.

Here is the article from the New York Times from 1983.


He is a well-proportioned, 6-foot- 6-inch, 190-pounder who can play either guard or forward. He is fast, having run the 40-yard dash in 4.3 seconds. He is strong and a good jumper, which enables him to play against forwards a few inches taller.

https://www.nytimes.com/1983/12/26/sports/jordan-settles-into-success-as-a-tar-heel.html

[Johnny32]

jordan's 40 time isn't official lmao. lebron is clearly faster at top speed. jordan is clearly quicker first step, as are other midget guards.

[HoopsNY]

jordan's 40 time isn't official lmao. lebron is clearly faster at top speed. jordan is clearly quicker first step, as are other midget guards.

What do you mean it isn't official? Roy Williams confirmed it in an interview with Cowherd. Do you mean official at an NBA workout pre-draft? According to Williams, Jordan got faster as the years went by.


Roy Williams, the current North Carolina basketball coach who was an assistant during Jordan’s tenure there, told that story in an interview with Colin Cowherd on Monday.

Williams said Jordan ran a 4.5 as a freshman, but got faster a year later. Three coaches timed Jordan’s 40-yard dash as a sophomore and couldn’t believe what they were seeing. One got a 4.39, two got 4.38s.

They made Jordan run it again just to be sure.

“I said ‘Michael, we missed your start and made a mistake here, come on I need you to run it again,’” Williams said. “He said ‘Oh, too fast for you, huh?’ He goes back to the line and runs it again and all of us got below 4.4.”

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bulls/michael-jordan-ran-blazing-438-40-yard-dash-while-north-carolina#:~:text=Michael%20Jordan%20ran%20a%20blaz ing,while%20at%20North%20Carolina%20%7C%20RSN

[Johnny32]

What do you mean it isn't official? Roy Williams confirmed it in an interview with Cowherd. Do you mean official at an NBA workout pre-draft? According to Williams, Jordan got faster as the years went by.



https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bulls/michael-jordan-ran-blazing-438-40-yard-dash-while-north-carolina#:~:text=Michael%20Jordan%20ran%20a%20blaz ing,while%20at%20North%20Carolina%20%7C%20RSN

i mean some random hitting a button after you're a stride into the run with wind at your back isn't official. lebron unofficially ran a 4.4 in hs, so yeah...who cares.

[HoopsNY]

i mean some random hitting a button after you're a stride into the run with wind at your back isn't official. lebron unofficially ran a 4.4 in hs, so yeah...who cares.

The difference is they ran it multiple times and this was at the college level. I'm not sure what constitutes "official", but this is the data that we do have with multiple coaches attesting to this, and multiple media outlets as well.

Not sure why people are having a hard time with this. A 40 yard dash is longer than an NBA court and we have multiple accounts of this. MJ also had the quicker first step, was quicker laterally, had the better hang-time, and had the better vertical. Yea, LeBron is stronger, but MJ was the superior athlete.

It's really odd seeing LeBron stans argue these points.

[Johnny32]

https://streamable.com/blb67c

lol he's at the dotted line in the paint at 9:07 on the game clock and in the air ready to dunk at 9:05.

still waiting for anything close to this.

but, hurrr, 40 YaRd DaSh In ElEmEnTaRy ScHoOl, durrr.

[Johnny32]

lol dude's so casual he actually thinks hang time is a real thing lul so embarrassing.

[Baller789]

The difference is they ran it multiple times and this was at the college level. I'm not sure what constitutes "official", but this is the data that we do have with multiple coaches attesting to this, and multiple media outlets as well.

Not sure why people are having a hard time with this. A 40 yard dash is longer than an NBA court and we have multiple accounts of this. MJ also had the quicker first step, was quicker laterally, had the better hang-time, and had the better vertical. Yea, LeBron is stronger, but MJ was the superior athlete.

It's really odd seeing LeBron stans argue these points.

Of course they would argue and use mental gymnastics on anything Jordan has over Lebron.

These stans are pretty dishonest and insecure..

[sdot_thadon]

I always thought this was clear:
Lebron is faster in a straight line
Mj definitely quicker with twitch movements and more agile
Lebron clearly stronger
Mj had better body control as far as contorting his body In mid air
Lebron is better body control in the aspect of taking heavy contact and still finishing
Footwork is Mj
Passing technical ability is Lebron
Mj has better reflexes
Lebron has better timing
Jumping is said to be Mj but I'm not completely sold that being able to jump off 2 feet is that much more important than being super explosive off one.

But Lebron does it all in a bigger package, which evokes physics and all.

[Baller789]

I always thought this was clear:
Lebron is faster in a straight line
Mj definitely quicker with twitch movements and more agile
Lebron clearly stronger
Mj had better body control as far as contorting his body In mid air
Lebron is better body control in the aspect of taking heavy contact and still finishing
Footwork is Mj
Passing technical ability is Lebron
Mj has better reflexes
Lebron has better timing
Jumping is said to be Mj but I'm not completely sold that being able to jump off 2 feet is that much more important than being super explosive off one.

But Lebron does it all in a bigger package, which evokes physics and all.

Lebron has better timing on what?

[sdot_thadon]

Lebron has better timing on what?

Passing obviously. Those crazy chasedowns he has a long ass highlight reel of require pretty narrow timing. Getting in the passing lane he's about as good as Mj, if not better if you subscribe to the theory that he's alot slower than Mj. Which is ridiculous if you have eyes I might add.

[Baller789]

Passing obviously. Those crazy chasedowns he has a long ass highlight reel of require pretty narrow timing. Getting in the passing lane he's about as good as Mj, if not better if you subscribe to the theory that he's alot slower than Mj. Which is ridiculous if you have eyes I might add.

I don't get why your timing isn't included with passing. Unless you want to give Lebron an extra advantage. Timing could also mean defensive anticipation. And no, Lebron is nowhere near Jordan getting in the passing lane. Check their average spg for an idea. I couldn't agree with you in this one because it isn't close even if you say Lebron is "slower".

Blocks is basically a wash but considering Lebron is a forward and is much bigger, that is a neg for him. You could say Lebron is better at chasedown blocks, but that's only a small portion of timing.

[3ba11]

Passing obviously. Those crazy chasedowns he has a long ass highlight reel of require pretty narrow timing. Getting in the passing lane he's about as good as Mj, if not better if you subscribe to the theory that he's alot slower than Mj. Which is ridiculous if you have eyes I might add.


Exactly - they're based on timing and not speed - half the time Lebron is literally slowing down his steps and taking a few really big steps before he takes off

Otoh, Jordan has just as many chasedowns but he made them look easy because he's easily catching anyone ahead of him and the play happens so much faster

Btw, Lebron doesn't get in passing lanes like Jordan - that's almost as ridiculous as saying he's as fast as Jordan.. I guess that's what it's come down to.. lying






if you subscribe to the theory that he's alot slower than Mj. Which is ridiculous if you have eyes I might add





Anyone that played ball knows that the guards win all the sprints

I played ball in highschool and 2 Division 1 schools that included numerous NBA players and the idea that a 250 pound big would beat small guards in a sprint is preposterous

Yeah, I never played with Lebron obviously but I've run thousands of sprints to know that a big guy like Lebron cannot outrun Iverson in a sprint.. It's impossible and he would easily concede that.

There should be plenty of teammate quotes about how Lebron wins all the windsprints in practice but there aren't because I promise that Shumpert is whooping Lebron's ass in a sprint.. JR Smith probably smokes his ass and many more teammates... Like Wade or Westbrook - why don't you guys twitter your media idols and get them to ask Westbrook who wins a sprint

[HoopsNY]

lol dude's so casual he actually thinks hang time is a real thing lul so embarrassing.

How is hang time not a real thing? You do realize hang time has to do with how you control your body mid-air, such that you can change shots or defend. No one was as good at this as MJ was, LeBron included.

[HoopsNY]

still waiting for anything close to this.

but, hurrr, 40 YaRd DaSh In ElEmEnTaRy ScHoOl, durrr.

Unreal. We're not discussing elementary school. We're talking about them at the age of 20-21 here. And from what we know, MJ's 40 is better than LeBron's.

[HoopsNY]

I always thought this was clear:
Lebron is faster in a straight line
Mj definitely quicker with twitch movements and more agile
Lebron clearly stronger
Mj had better body control as far as contorting his body In mid air
Lebron is better body control in the aspect of taking heavy contact and still finishing
Footwork is Mj
Passing technical ability is Lebron
Mj has better reflexes
Lebron has better timing
Jumping is said to be Mj but I'm not completely sold that being able to jump off 2 feet is that much more important than being super explosive off one.

But Lebron does it all in a bigger package, which evokes physics and all.

It's pure recency bias that has people thinking LeBron is faster in a straight line. Most fans will remember MJ from 1995-2003. If that's who we're referring to then yea, I agree.

Taking contact has to do with strength. LeBron is stronger.

Timing I'm not sure what you mean by that. MJ timed jumps, releases, passing lanes, etc better than LeBron. And he certainly had the quicker hands.

LeBron fans typically hold onto the "bigger" (obviously) and "stronger" argument. Faster is just not true and neither are the other facets of athleticism.

[Baller789]

It's pure recency bias that has people thinking LeBron is faster in a straight line. Most fans will remember MJ from 1995-2003. If that's who we're referring to then yea, I agree.

Taking contact has to do with strength. LeBron is stronger.

Timing I'm not sure what you mean by that. MJ timed jumps, releases, passing lanes, etc better than LeBron. And he certainly had the quicker hands.

LeBron fans typically hold onto the "bigger" (obviously) and "stronger" argument. Faster is just not true and neither are the other facets of athleticism.

In short, Lebrontards woud just ignore valid evidences against their point and proceed to argue with their make believe BS.

[3ba11]

.
Thread Cliff

Lebron's chasedown blocks are a function of historic hops off 1 leg for his size and also great timing, not speed, since he often slows down with big strides right before the swat

Bigger, stronger, faster works for Lebron vs Pippen or PJ Tucker, but not the fastest guards of all time like Wade or MJ.

Iman Shumpert and other fast guards would destroy Lebron in an actual race

[Johnny32]

Passing obviously. Those crazy chasedowns he has a long ass highlight reel of require pretty narrow timing. Getting in the passing lane he's about as good as Mj, if not better if you subscribe to the theory that he's alot slower than Mj. Which is ridiculous if you have eyes I might add.

they're in denial. i provided video evidence. the response was...hurrr, mj ran an unofficial 4.4 in college, durrr. yeah well, lebron did that in hs.

[PP34Deuce]

I love this rabbit hole we re giving the OP more time to get his posts counts up.

When do nba players ever run a 40 in college? There was no mention of football. I typically believe while people are incredibly talented there is a timing component and Jordan just like other legends received tall tales.

Not going to argue until blue in the face but Jordan was not a 4.3 speed guy. Neither was Lebron.

The fact that lebron can give comparable speed to guards while prime quickness was elite SF level is what makes him impressive

Everytime I hear guys who hate lebron talk about hos size it's almost like they are jealous they didn't hit genetic lottery. Curry is much closer to every man size

[3ba11]

they're in denial. i provided video evidence. the response was...hurrr, mj ran an unofficial 4.4 in college, durrr. yeah well, lebron did that in hs.


Roy Williams said he timed Jordan running a 4.39 and his other 2 coaches timed it at 4.38

Roy isn't making that up.. Otherwise, Lebron bragged about his 4.6

the idea that Lebron is faster end-to-end than guys like ja morant, iverson, westbrook, wade or jordan is... PREPOSTEROUS... literally preposterous

[sdot_thadon]

I don't get why your timing isn't included with passing. Unless you want to give Lebron an extra advantage. Timing could also mean defensive anticipation. And no, Lebron is nowhere near Jordan getting in the passing lane. Check their average spg for an idea. I couldn't agree with you in this one because it isn't close even if you say Lebron is "slower".

Blocks is basically a wash but considering Lebron is a forward and is much bigger, that is a neg for him. You could say Lebron is better at chasedown blocks, but that's only a small portion of timing.

Because in my opinion timing is such a broad attribute that only shoehorning it into passing would be losing nuance in the discussion. Especially when it applies to other situations outside of passing. Also Lebron iss up there with anyone at getting in the passing lanes, hell he still does it well at this ancient age. He was even better at it when he was younger, before he had even begun to develop as a defender. Spg doesn't do it for me.

Blocks are absolutely not a wash, Lebron is a far better rim protector, some of that due to size, some due to ability.

[sdot_thadon]

Exactly - they're based on timing and not speed - half the time Lebron is literally slowing down his steps and taking a few really big steps before he takes off

Otoh, Jordan has just as many chasedowns but he made them look easy because he's easily catching anyone ahead of him and the play happens so much faster

Btw, Lebron doesn't get in passing lanes like Jordan - that's almost as ridiculous as saying he's as fast as Jordan.. I guess that's what it's come down to.. lying






Anyone that played ball knows that the guards win all the sprints

I played ball in highschool and 2 Division 1 schools that included numerous NBA players and the idea that a 250 pound big would beat small guards in a sprint is preposterous

Yeah, I never played with Lebron obviously but I've run thousands of sprints to know that a big guy like Lebron cannot outrun Iverson in a sprint.. It's impossible and he would easily concede that.

There should be plenty of teammate quotes about how Lebron wins all the windsprints in practice but there aren't because I promise that Shumpert is whooping Lebron's ass in a sprint.. JR Smith probably smokes his ass and many more teammates... Like Wade or Westbrook - why don't you guys twitter your media idols and get them to ask Westbrook who wins a sprint
You do know AI is top end elite for speed right. These 2 are not.

[Baller789]

Because in my opinion timing is such a broad attribute that only shoehorning it into passing would be losing nuance in the discussion. Especially when it applies to other situations outside of passing. Also Lebron iss up there with anyone at getting in the passing lanes, hell he still does it well at this ancient age. He was even better at it when he was younger, before he had even begun to develop as a defender. Spg doesn't do it for me.

Blocks are absolutely not a wash, Lebron is a far better rim protector, some of that due to size, some due to ability.

Oh spg does definately indicate ability to get in passing lanes as long as there is enough gap. It just doesn't support your argument, hence you toss it to the side.

It's pretty wierd that you decided to double down on your timing argument. Could I now use timing on rebounds? How about scoring? How about creating seperation from the defender?

Oh blocks are a wash. For as bigger as Lebron is. They are about tied on bpg. I have no problems with you arguing Lebron is a better rim protector, but I could argue that Jordan is a better rim protector for his position.

[sdot_thadon]

It's pure recency bias that has people thinking LeBron is faster in a straight line. Most fans will remember MJ from 1995-2003. If that's who we're referring to then yea, I agree.

Taking contact has to do with strength. LeBron is stronger.

Timing I'm not sure what you mean by that. MJ timed jumps, releases, passing lanes, etc better than LeBron. And he certainly had the quicker hands.

LeBron fans typically hold onto the "bigger" (obviously) and "stronger" argument. Faster is just not true and neither are the other facets of athleticism.
Man I watched Mj before that too, not to mention there are literally tons of videos of his athletic feats. I've never seen him on film run the floor the way younger Lebron and even prime Lebron did.

I feel like Lebron had superior timing, not by some landslide but a perceivable difference because Lebron leveraged it in more ways. No doubt Mj had quicker hands and I mentioned he was quicker overall.

They are my 2 favorite players ever so its not really a big deal, I've analyzed both guys more than any other player from teens on with Mj to adulthood with Lebron. I used to default Mj as number one at everything, Over the years I realized that wasn't true. Same goes for Lebron, still.

[sdot_thadon]

Oh spg does definately indicate ability to get in passing lanes as long as there is enough gap. It just doesn't support your argument, hence you toss it to the side.

It's pretty wierd that you decided to double down on your timing argument. Could I now use timing on rebounds? How about scoring? How about creating seperation from the defender?

Oh blocks are a wash. For as bigger as Lebron is. They are about tied on bpg. I have no problems with you arguing Lebron is a better rim protector, but I could argue that Jordan is a better rim protector for his position.

Spg doesn't specify whether the steal was in the passing lane, or a fumbled dribble etc. I mean I'm at least attempting a more realistic debate than the norm for this place.

As far as timing yeah, go for it. Shiit if that's what floats your boat, have at it. That's why timing deserves to be its own thing. And honestly we could probably come up with more if we tried.

On blocks? Nah, how do you figure that? Lebron is only one slot over positionally yet he's served as an anchor for all intents and purposes at times in his career. Also bpg don't inform us where the block occurred....

[Baller789]

Spg doesn't specify whether the steal was in the passing lane, or a fumbled dribble etc. I mean I'm at least attempting a more realistic debate than the norm for this place.

As far as timing yeah, go for it. Shiit if that's what floats your boat, have at it. That's why timing deserves to be its own thing. And honestly we could probably come up with more if we tried.

On blocks? Nah, how do you figure that? Lebron is only one slot over positionally yet he's served as an anchor for all intents and purposes at times in his career. Also bpg don't inform us where the block occurred....

That's why I said, If there is enough gap in the averages it's pretty telling.

You don't wanna open this can of worms.

Who anchors D on shooting guards anyways? So you can't use the argument it's just one position away. We're talking about shot blocking. And Jordan is perhaps the greatest shot blocking 2 guard.

Lebron isn't even the best SF rim protector of his era.

[999Guy]

That's why I said, If there is enough gap in the averages it's pretty telling.

You don't wanna open this can of worms.

Who anchors D on shooting guards anyways? So you can't use the argument it's just one position away. We're talking about shot blocking. And Jordan is perhaps the greatest shot blocking 2 guard.

Lebron isn't even the best SF rim protector of his era.

I can’t think of a quick better rim protector at SF off the top of my head rn. And do not say Kevin Durant or you lose all credibility to me.

[999Guy]

The fact that most of LeBron’s most stunning highlights come on the break and most of Jordan’s comes in half court just inherently shows how retarded the OP was.

A guy like Tpols is a perfect judge of this type of shit just on rationality cos he doesn’t give af about either player more than the other, and him being so sure LeBron is faster makes me realize LeBron is not only faster, he’s almost obviously faster, and freakishly faster because he had 60 pounds on Jordan peak for peak.


Jordan had smallish feet for his size so the first step was unthinkable. Buts that’s it.

[WhiteKyrie]

I think remember Mike ran a 4.3 40. He’s so visibly quicker / faster out of the stand still or triple threat or off the dribble. End to end speed? Probably Mike but LeBron’s speed at his size is unprecedented. But Mike’s lateral movement and speed is way visibly faster as well.

[Baller789]

I can’t think of a quick better rim protector at SF off the top of my head rn. And do not say Kevin Durant or you lose all credibility to me.

Notice you moved the goalpost and sneakily added 'quick'.

Yes KD is a better rim protector if he's given that role in a proper system than Lebron. Lebron is better at chasedown blocks, but I'd take KD's half court rim protection over that because it's more useful overall.

[Indian guy]

If we're talking end-to-end speed with the ball, then LeBron's up there with anyone.

[PP34Deuce]

Still talking bout this???

Lebron in prime end to end is faster than most pgs including sgs. All my opinion. Both are very fast for their positions however people still confuse speed with quickness.

Kerry kittles before injuries was elite end to end speed wise. John wall in his prime was faster than lebron and Jordan end to end.

Iverson in his prime was more what a 4.3 40 would look like.

[999Guy]

I think remember Mike ran a 4.3 40. He’s so visibly quicker / faster out of the stand still or triple threat or off the dribble. End to end speed? Probably Mike but LeBron’s speed at his size is unprecedented. But Mike’s lateral movement and speed is way visibly faster as well.
It’s not even probably Mike.

If you go on YouTube and look at both running full speed in any situation several things become clear:


LeBron’s STRIDES are actually faster! I actually assumed last night Jordan would have faster, but obviously shorter, less powerful strides due to size and length. But that’s not even the case, LeBron’s first 3-4 steps were not as quick, but his next 5 strides are WAY faster and more powerful than Jordan’s.

Jordan would be on the break with guys trailing him and hawking him. ****ing just random guys in the league.


LeBron has clip after clip of him outrunning the entire basketball game. Every player and ref on the court not having a prayer of even getting within 10 ft while having head starts.


It’s not even close and very obvious. LeBron’s legs were just way more powerful than Mikes. And it bleeds into everything. Speed, hops, balance, power overall.

I mean think about what 3bsll even said ITT. LeBron is ungodly off one leg. That’s...running. And jumping. But running especially.


It’s literally visibly not close. Jordan being Jordan is the only reason this is even a thread.

[AlternativeAcc.]

It’s not even probably Mike.

If you go on YouTube and look at both running full speed in any situation several things become clear:


LeBron’s STRIDES are actually faster! I actually assumed last night Jordan would have faster, but obviously shorter, less powerful strides due to size and length. But that’s not even the case, LeBron’s first 3-4 steps were not as quick, but his next 5 strides are WAY faster and more powerful than Jordan’s.

Jordan would be on the break with guys trailing him and hawking him. ****ing just random guys in the league.


LeBron has clip after clip of him outrunning the entire basketball game. Every player and ref on the court not having a prayer of even getting within 10 ft while having head starts.


It’s not even close and very obvious. LeBron’s legs were just way more powerful than Mikes. And it bleeds into everything. Speed, hops, balance, power overall.

I mean think about what 3bsll even said ITT. LeBron is ungodly off one leg. That’s...running. And jumping. But running especially.


It’s literally visibly not close. Jordan being Jordan is the only reason this is even a thread.

Ether

[SATAN]

It’s not even probably Mike.

If you go on YouTube and look at both running full speed in any situation several things become clear:


LeBron’s STRIDES are actually faster! I actually assumed last night Jordan would have faster, but obviously shorter, less powerful strides due to size and length. But that’s not even the case, LeBron’s first 3-4 steps were not as quick, but his next 5 strides are WAY faster and more powerful than Jordan’s.

Jordan would be on the break with guys trailing him and hawking him. ****ing just random guys in the league.


LeBron has clip after clip of him outrunning the entire basketball game. Every player and ref on the court not having a prayer of even getting within 10 ft while having head starts.


It’s not even close and very obvious. LeBron’s legs were just way more powerful than Mikes. And it bleeds into everything. Speed, hops, balance, power overall.

I mean think about what 3bsll even said ITT. LeBron is ungodly off one leg. That’s...running. And jumping. But running especially.


It’s literally visibly not close. Jordan being Jordan is the only reason this is even a thread.

Wow

https://c.tenor.com/8zUyU3lh7csAAAAC/tenor.gif

[Baller789]

It’s not even probably Mike.

If you go on YouTube and look at both running full speed in any situation several things become clear:


LeBron’s STRIDES are actually faster! I actually assumed last night Jordan would have faster, but obviously shorter, less powerful strides due to size and length. But that’s not even the case, LeBron’s first 3-4 steps were not as quick, but his next 5 strides are WAY faster and more powerful than Jordan’s.

Jordan would be on the break with guys trailing him and hawking him. ****ing just random guys in the league.


LeBron has clip after clip of him outrunning the entire basketball game. Every player and ref on the court not having a prayer of even getting within 10 ft while having head starts.


It’s not even close and very obvious. LeBron’s legs were just way more powerful than Mikes. And it bleeds into everything. Speed, hops, balance, power overall.

I mean think about what 3bsll even said ITT. LeBron is ungodly off one leg. That’s...running. And jumping. But running especially.


It’s literally visibly not close. Jordan being Jordan is the only reason this is even a thread.

Hops and balance? Really?

[Axe]

It’s not even probably Mike.

If you go on YouTube and look at both running full speed in any situation several things become clear:


LeBron’s STRIDES are actually faster! I actually assumed last night Jordan would have faster, but obviously shorter, less powerful strides due to size and length. But that’s not even the case, LeBron’s first 3-4 steps were not as quick, but his next 5 strides are WAY faster and more powerful than Jordan’s.

Jordan would be on the break with guys trailing him and hawking him. ****ing just random guys in the league.


LeBron has clip after clip of him outrunning the entire basketball game. Every player and ref on the court not having a prayer of even getting within 10 ft while having head starts.


It’s not even close and very obvious. LeBron’s legs were just way more powerful than Mikes. And it bleeds into everything. Speed, hops, balance, power overall.

I mean think about what 3bsll even said ITT. LeBron is ungodly off one leg. That’s...running. And jumping. But running especially.


It’s literally visibly not close. Jordan being Jordan is the only reason this is even a thread.
Duh lebron being king kong has something to do with it. Don't be clueless.

[3ba11]

It’s not even probably Mike.

If you go on YouTube and look at both running full speed in any situation several things become clear:


LeBron’s STRIDES are actually faster! I actually assumed last night Jordan would have faster, but obviously shorter, less powerful strides due to size and length. But that’s not even the case, LeBron’s first 3-4 steps were not as quick, but his next 5 strides are WAY faster and more powerful than Jordan’s.

Jordan would be on the break with guys trailing him and hawking him. ****ing just random guys in the league.


LeBron has clip after clip of him outrunning the entire basketball game. Every player and ref on the court not having a prayer of even getting within 10 ft while having head starts.


It’s not even close and very obvious. LeBron’s legs were just way more powerful than Mikes. And it bleeds into everything. Speed, hops, balance, power overall.

I mean think about what 3bsll even said ITT. LeBron is ungodly off one leg. That’s...running. And jumping. But running especially.


It’s literally visibly not close. Jordan being Jordan is the only reason this is even a thread.


"Chasedown block" is another media creation - fake news.

Players that are chasing ball-handlers will always be running much faster than the ball-handler because they don't have the ball and are just sprinting (hoops 101 - Usain Bolt wouldn't run anywhere near a 9.6 with the ball even with a kyrie handle)

Sufficient speed is often a given, so chasedowns have always been a function of timing and hops - most defenders can get close enough to a ball-handler so that timing the jump is the critical factor.... Lebron usually slows down with several large steps to time the takeoff, so speed is less important than timing and hops... Otoh, Jordan's faster speed, quicker leap and cat-quick hands make the play look routine compared to his goat scoring ability (or compared to a big man physique like Lebron chasing guys down).

This was intuitive to fans in prior eras but Lebron's unprecedented size in chasing down opponents made these plays more noticeable and gave the.play a name.. Anyone that played will know this (that chasedowns are about timing & hops, while sufficient speed is a given for the chaser).

Why don't you guys try going outside and picking up a ball for once rather than making up your own reality.

Btw, did anyone find all those quotes of Shumpert saying Lebron killed him in sprints or teammates saying Lebron wins all the team sprints?.. Jordan's teammates have such quotes.. And video

TLDR: Lebron's unprecedented size in executing blocks from behind gave the play a name "chasedown", but the play is based more on coordination, timing and hops, rather than speed.. Shorter and faster players like MJ made it look routine to run guys down, so no nickname was conceived until Lebron's uncommon size showed sufficient timing and hops to execute the play.

[PP34Deuce]

The gaslighting is hilarious. That's a large female tendency.

Both guys are fast. End to end bron has looked faster in fast breaks with faster athletes on the floor.

No copy and paste needed or hanging on to a 4.38 where the 40 yard dash isn't even tested for basketball players

[HoopsNY]

The gaslighting is hilarious. That's a large female tendency.

Both guys are fast. End to end bron has looked faster in fast breaks with faster athletes on the floor.

No copy and paste needed or hanging on to a 4.38 where the 40 yard dash isn't even tested for basketball players

You can't accuse 3ball of gaslighting when he's provided a clear example of why the context matters. People are mentioning chase down blocks and LeBron running full speed without the ball, then conveniently relying on video footage of where MJ is running with the ball on a fast break. Not to mention, the chase down block is an anomaly in the arsenal of LeBron's speed samples. It focuses on a tiny element while disregarding that MJ, too, had chase down blocks. But no one mentions MJ's chase down blocks because they're largely irrelevant when talking about speed.

I'm not sure why those who assert MJ's speed can't use a 4.3 as evidence when it's relevant to the discussion. If it's what he came into the league with, then it stands as some kind of proof with regards to how fast he actually was. Certainly, it's not the be all end all.

Furthermore, sdot is hanging onto footage of MJ from the 80s, most of which we do not have, in order to assert the claim that "we have footage!" In the end, both sides will disagree and that's where this ends I guess.

[Johnny32]

still waiting for anything close to this.

but, hurrr, 40 YaRd DaSh In ElEmEnTaRy ScHoOl, durrr.

still waiting.

LeShocker.

[Johnny32]

"Chasedown block" is another media creation - fake news.

Players that are chasing ball-handlers will always be running much faster than the ball-handler because they don't have the ball and are just sprinting (hoops 101 - Usain Bolt wouldn't run anywhere near a 9.6 with the ball even with a kyrie handle)

Sufficient speed is often a given, so chasedowns have always been a function of timing and hops - most defenders can get close enough to a ball-handler so that timing the jump is the critical factor.... Lebron usually slows down with several large steps to time the takeoff, so speed is less important than timing and hops... Otoh, Jordan's faster speed, quicker leap and cat-quick hands make the play look routine compared to his goat scoring ability (or compared to a big man physique like Lebron chasing guys down).

This was intuitive to fans in prior eras but Lebron's unprecedented size in chasing down opponents made these plays more noticeable and gave the.play a name.. Anyone that played will know this (that chasedowns are about timing & hops, while sufficient speed is a given for the chaser).

Why don't you guys try going outside and picking up a ball for once rather than making up your own reality.

Btw, did anyone find all those quotes of Shumpert saying Lebron killed him in sprints or teammates saying Lebron wins all the team sprints?.. Jordan's teammates have such quotes.. And video

TLDR: Lebron's unprecedented size in executing blocks from behind gave the play a name "chasedown", but the play is based more on coordination, timing and hops, rather than speed.. Shorter and faster players like MJ made it look routine to run guys down, so no nickname was conceived until Lebron's uncommon size showed sufficient timing and hops to execute the play.

with the ball.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmfzNQbPhho&ab_channel=vaLTmac101604

mj isn't close lol.

[999Guy]

"Chasedown block" is another media creation - fake news.

Players that are chasing ball-handlers will always be running much faster than the ball-handler because they don't have the ball and are just sprinting (hoops 101 - Usain Bolt wouldn't run anywhere near a 9.6 with the ball even with a kyrie handle)

Sufficient speed is often a given, so chasedowns have always been a function of timing and hops - most defenders can get close enough to a ball-handler so that timing the jump is the critical factor.... Lebron usually slows down with several large steps to time the takeoff, so speed is less important than timing and hops... Otoh, Jordan's faster speed, quicker leap and cat-quick hands make the play look routine compared to his goat scoring ability (or compared to a big man physique like Lebron chasing guys down).

This was intuitive to fans in prior eras but Lebron's unprecedented size in chasing down opponents made these plays more noticeable and gave the.play a name.. Anyone that played will know this (that chasedowns are about timing & hops, while sufficient speed is a given for the chaser).

Why don't you guys try going outside and picking up a ball for once rather than making up your own reality.

Btw, did anyone find all those quotes of Shumpert saying Lebron killed him in sprints or teammates saying Lebron wins all the team sprints?.. Jordan's teammates have such quotes.. And video

TLDR: Lebron's unprecedented size in executing blocks from behind gave the play a name "chasedown", but the play is based more on coordination, timing and hops, rather than speed.. Shorter and faster players like MJ made it look routine to run guys down, so no nickname was conceived until Lebron's uncommon size showed sufficient timing and hops to execute the play.

I was talking about with the ball. Not without it. LeBron did breakaway dunks with no one else even past the 3P line. Guys would be tailing Jordan the entire way on such plays.

Jordan literally just had slower plays. Like, the play itself last longer. Him doing literally anything involving running. The play ends several seconds after LeBron does the same thing.


Again, it’s literally not even close. LeBron’s bigger, stronger, and had longer strides, and his ****ing strides are visibly faster. Visibly. You would never bring yourself to claim some dumb shit like this watching them side by side.

And somebody else put on a 1950’s white woman hat and pretended to be shocked when I said LeBron had better hops than Jordan, which he clearly and obviously does…If you can’t see that you shouldn’t even be ITT. No scout skills.

[AlternativeAcc.]

OP getting absolutely shitted on :lol



LeBron's the fastest guy in NBA history

[Axe]

I was talking about with the ball. Not without it. LeBron did breakaway dunks with no one else even past the 3P line. Guys would be tailing Jordan the entire way on such plays.

Jordan literally just had slower plays. Like, the play itself last longer. Him doing literally anything involving running. The play ends several seconds after LeBron does the same thing.


Again, it’s literally not even close. LeBron’s bigger, stronger, and had longer strides, and his ****ing strides are visibly faster. Visibly. You would never bring yourself to claim some dumb shit like this watching them side by side.

And somebody else put on a 1950’s white woman hat and pretended to be shocked when I said LeBron had better hops than Jordan, which he clearly and obviously does…If you can’t see that you shouldn’t even be ITT. No scout skills.
Wtf are you talking about? He's the one who made this thread. :yaohappy: