US invasion of Afghanistan & Iraq vs Russia invasion of Ukraine

[iamgine]

I was discussing the ongoing war with someone from China and he said if the US can invade Afghanistan and Iraq while installing puppet governments, why can't Russia do the same to Ukraine?

Furthermore, why can't China do the same to Hongkong and Taiwan?

Do the US and its allies have any moral high ground here?


I don't know much about the war but his points seems reasonable enough on the surface. How do I defend the US from these allegations?

[1987_Lakers]

You can't defend this country. The U.S. has been doing shady shit to poor countries for decades, often justified by BS propaganda by politicians and media. Anyone with any sense of intelligence can see this, but most don't realize just how far we are willing to go in order to invade a country etc.

Back in the 60's, there was going to be a false flag operation where the U.S. was gonna attack our own people/country and blame Cuba in order to go to war with them, but JFK put a stop to that. This is all confirmed as fact and it's NEVER talked about by anyone. We also went to Iraq based on a lie. This is why I don't go around calling people who are into conspiracies crazy people, because there is evidence that this Government is capable of doing some pretty fvcked up shit.

[iamgine]

You can't defend this country. The U.S. has been doing shady shit to poor countries for decades, often justified by BS propaganda by politicians and media. Anyone with any sense of intelligence can see this, but most don't realize just how far we are willing to go in order to invade a country etc.

Back in the 60's, there was going to be a false flag operation where the U.S. was gonna attack our own people/country and blame Cuba in order to go to war with them, but JFK put a stop to that. This is all confirmed as fact and it's NEVER talked about by anyone. We also went to Iraq based on a lie. This is why I don't go around calling people who are into conspiracies crazy people, because there is evidence that this Government is capable of doing some pretty fvcked up shit.

Damn, I was reading about this and it sounds a lot like the 9/11 conspiracy theory:

Those tin foil hat types are at it again. Talking about a "conspiracy" by the US Government to attack our own cities and military targets just to blame another country so we could invade them...that would NEVER HAPPEN. Wait...hold on...I'm reading...yep, actually not only is it not crazy, it's confirmed to have been planned. That's right, in the early 60's the JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF approved a false flag operation called Operation Northwoods that would authorize attacks on our own military targets, instigate hijackings, and bomb American cities. THEN, plant false evidence implicating Fidel Castro and communist Cuba...so we had a reason to invade.

[Off the Court]

Not trying to defend the US or those bs wars but the obvious key difference is that Russia is invading the Ukraine to make it Russia. The US went in and overthrew governments but it wasn't in an effort to claim that land and expand the US.

[Jasper]

I was discussing the ongoing war with someone from China and he said if the US can invade Afghanistan and Iraq while installing puppet governments, why can't Russia do the same to Ukraine?

Furthermore, why can't China do the same to Hongkong and Taiwan?

Do the US and its allies have any moral high ground here?


I don't know much about the war but his points seems reasonable enough on the surface. How do I defend the US from these allegations?

putting in puppet governments is a stepping stone for those countries to lead their governments to do what the people want.
Comparing russia and a full fledged take over is putin taking over what he calls his.

/

[bladefd]

Not trying to defend the US or those bs wars but the obvious key difference is that Russia is invading the Ukraine to make it Russia. The US went in and overthrew governments but it wasn't in an effort to claim that land and expand the US.

Yup, pretty much everything the US has invaded, they have left. They often do leave it as bad or worse than when they entered, but that's an argument for another day. There are some exceptions like Japan, Indonesia, Germany, South Korea, etc.

Russia wants to annex Ukraine from what we have heard Putin say. Russian ambassador said they only want the Eastern Ukraine (donbas region), but I'm not so sure they will just stop at Donbas once kyiv falls.

[1987_Lakers]

Yup, pretty much everything the US has invaded, they have left. They often do leave it as bad or worse than when they entered, but that's an argument for another day. There are some exceptions like Japan, Indonesia, Germany, South Korea, etc.


They left after 22,000 civilians were killed by U.S. airstrikes like in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria etc. :oldlol:

Absolutely ridiculous to ignore this.

[iamgine]

Not trying to defend the US or those bs wars but the obvious key difference is that Russia is invading the Ukraine to make it Russia. The US went in and overthrew governments but it wasn't in an effort to claim that land and expand the US.

What is it about leaving that makes it better? What if Russia just invade Ukraine, Poland, Romania, etc and then left after installing a pro Russia government? Is that....better?

[Off the Court]

What is it about leaving that makes it better? What if Russia just invade Ukraine, Poland, Romania, etc and then left after installing a pro Russia government? Is that....better?
One could be perceived as an effort to take over the world the other an effort to remove evil dictatorships. Again not trying to defend those bs wars or the US, they were bad. Not trying to ignore civilian deaths either. I believe the US was in the wrong. But imagine if the US simply sold those wars as "that land should be ours!".

[iamgine]

One could be perceived as an effort to take over the world the other an effort to remove evil dictatorships. Again not trying to defend those bs wars or the US, they were bad. Not trying to ignore civilian deaths either. I believe the US was in the wrong. But imagine if the US simply sold those wars as "that land should be ours!".

I don't know who'd believe that though. How can it be a key difference if no one believe it?

btw, Russia didn't say that either. The official line is 'Russia is liberating Ukraine and its people'.

[Off the Court]

I don't know who'd believe that though. How can it be a key difference if no one believe it?

btw, Russia didn't say that either. The official line is 'Russia is liberating Ukraine and its people'.

I thought it was clear that Putin believes certain territories of Ukraine belong to Russia but if he is just removing their leadership and then leaving it as Ukraine then it isn't much different.

[Charlie Sheen]

I was discussing the ongoing war with someone from China and he said if the US can invade Afghanistan and Iraq while installing puppet governments, why can't Russia do the same to Ukraine?

Furthermore, why can't China do the same to Hongkong and Taiwan?

Do the US and its allies have any moral high ground here?


I don't know much about the war but his points seems reasonable enough on the surface. How do I defend the US from these allegations?

Why do you have to defend the United States?

This quote from Malcolm X might help you...

“To have once been a criminal is no disgrace. To remain a criminal is the disgrace.”

[bladefd]

They left after 22,000 civilians were killed by U.S. airstrikes like in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria etc. :oldlol:

Absolutely ridiculous to ignore this.

I think you missed the next sentence I wrote.

[Patrick Chewing]

Back in the 60's, there was going to be a false flag operation where the U.S. was gonna attack our own people/country and blame Cuba in order to go to war with them, but JFK put a stop to that.

That's not how the Cubans that JFK betrayed and left behind to get arrested or murdered remember it. There's a reason JFK took a bullet to the head.

[Jasper]

They left after 22,000 civilians were killed by U.S. airstrikes like in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria etc. :oldlol:

Absolutely ridiculous to ignore this.

are you ignoring 16million + russians died in the wwII ?

They did it for you.

[iamgine]

Why do you have to defend the United States?

This quote from Malcolm X might help you...

Well, for one I like to discuss stuff and it's not fun if I just agree with the guy.

[Draz]

Not trying to defend the US or those bs wars but the obvious key difference is that Russia is invading the Ukraine to make it Russia. The US went in and overthrew governments but it wasn't in an effort to claim that land and expand the US.

This is the only logical answer IMO.