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AirBonner
03-03-2022, 08:22 AM
10k + Russian soldiers dead already. Massive amounts of Russian tanks and armored vehicles destroyed. Wouldn’t be surprised if Putin dirty bombs his own city for a reason to nuke Ukraine. It’s definitely not going in Putin’s favor

PAOK
03-03-2022, 09:18 AM
These numbers are coming mainly from western/Ukrainian sources. Russians, on the other hand, are reporting almost no losses, so the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

Obviously things are not progressing as fast as the Russians expected, but in now way they are 'loosing' the war.

Since NATO has explicitly stated that they will not interfere, and the russian energy sector is not sanctioned, thus providing a steady cashflow to Russia, things are not looking good for Ukraine

bladefd
03-03-2022, 10:49 AM
These numbers are coming mainly from western/Ukrainian sources. Russians, on the other hand, are reporting almost no losses, so the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

Obviously things are not progressing as fast as the Russians expected, but in now way they are 'loosing' the war.

Since NATO has explicitly stated that they will not interfere, and the russian energy sector is not sanctioned, thus providing a steady cashflow to Russia, things are not looking good for Ukraine

Russian energy is not sanctioned? Countries like Germany have sanctioned Russian oil/gas.

BurningHammer
03-03-2022, 01:06 PM
These numbers are coming mainly from western/Ukrainian sources. Russians, on the other hand, are reporting almost no losses, so the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

Obviously things are not progressing as fast as the Russians expected, but in now way they are 'loosing' the war.

Since NATO has explicitly stated that they will not interfere, and the russian energy sector is not sanctioned, thus providing a steady cashflow to Russia, things are not looking good for Ukraine

Moscow went so far that they said they had no Russian troop loss during first few days when the invasion started, until they couldn't hide it any more.

PAOK
03-03-2022, 01:25 PM
Russian energy is not sanctioned? Countries like Germany have sanctioned Russian oil/gas.

There are plenty of sources mentioning that there havent been any sanctions when it comes to energy flow from Russia


https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/us-open-sanctioning-russian-energy-sector-white-house-2022-03-02/

After Russia's invasion of Ukraine, the White House slapped sanctions on exports of technologies to Russia's refineries and the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline, which has never launched. So far, it has stopped short of targeting Russia's oil and gas exports as the Biden administration weighs the impacts on global oil markets and U.S. energy prices.

"We don't have a strategic interest in reducing global supply of energy ... that would raise prices at the gas pump for Americans," spokesperson Karine Jean-Pierre said at a White House news briefing.



https://inews.co.uk/news/russia-send-oil-gas-uk-despite-ukraine-sanctions-banning-ships-entering-ports-1493754

However, the Department for Transport has now confirmed that the sanctions will not stop ships registered with other countries from transporting Russian oil or liquefied national gas to Britain.

https://www.voanews.com/a/despite-sanctions-europe-continues-to-bankroll-russia-for-gas-oil/6465223.html

Western nations are continuing to pay Russia hundreds of millions of dollars every day for gas and oil imports, despite the tough sanctions imposed on the country's banking and aviation sectors following its invasion of Ukraine.


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/03/03/ftse-100-stock-markets-live-news-russia-oil-gas-sanctions/

Germany has hit back at the idea of targeting Russian oil and gas with new sanctions, warning such a move could “threaten the social peace”.

Economy Minister Robert Habeck said he wouldn’t support an embargo on Russian imports and would “even speak out against it” given his country’s heavy reliance on the supplies.


Practically rising energy prices are more important than Ukraine. That's where the west draws the line apparently

Patrick Chewing
03-03-2022, 02:23 PM
Not sure why the rest of the world is letting Russia continue on with this war honestly. He's past the point of no return by killing hundreds of innocent civilians. If I'm NATO or the U.S., I start dropping bombs on strategic targets in Russia that will cripple his military and his nuclear capabilities.


I mean, these sanctions are a joke. So the World Taekwondo League stripped Putin of his Black Belt....yeah, that'll change his mind. :oldlol:

PAOK
03-03-2022, 02:56 PM
They dont want to risk nuclear retaliation. Both NATO and Russia have more than enough nukes to wipe out large cities, and in many cases these retaliation systems are automated, without requiring human intervention ( see Dead Hand system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Hand ).

Would you be willing to risk getting nuked just to save a foreign country?

There have been plenty of proxy wars and close calls (korea, vietnam etc) in the past, but because of the threat of nuclear retaliation there has never been an all-out war between nuclear powers

Patrick Chewing
03-03-2022, 03:10 PM
They dont want to risk nuclear retaliation. Both NATO and Russia have more than enough nukes to wipe out large cities, and in many cases these retaliation systems are automated, without requiring human intervention ( see Dead Hand system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Hand ).

Would you be willing to risk getting nuked just to save a foreign country?

There have been plenty of proxy wars and close calls (korea, vietnam etc) in the past, but because of the threat of nuclear retaliation there has never been an all-out war between nuclear powers

How many realistic nukes could Russia fire off before the U.S. and NATO completely wipe them off the map? No way a nuke reaches US soil either.

Biden had phone conversations with India, Japan, and Austrailia over the Ukraine as well. If he can convince India to turn on Russia, then there's one less nuclear ally for Russia.

Objectivity
03-03-2022, 03:20 PM
How many realistic nukes could Russia fire off before the U.S. and NATO completely wipe them off the map? No way a nuke reaches US soil either.
Biden had phone conversations with India, Japan, and Austrailia over the Ukraine as well. If he can convince India to turn on Russia, then there's one less nuclear ally for Russia.

what.a.dumbass :roll: you literally have no idea what you're talking about, as hard as it might be for you to understand, Russia actually has superior nuclear capabilities

american hegemony is coming to and end, deal with it psycho

WHAT A TIME

PAOK
03-03-2022, 03:22 PM
They have like 8k warheads. Lets say you destroy 90% of the at the first strike. You still have another 800 (obviously they are not all long range). Thats more than enough to wipe out most of europe. Plus you have many submarines carrying nuclear payload, who noone know where the **** they are.

So lets say hypothetically, you can wipe out the whole Russian military, but you lose two major European cities, i.e. London and Paris which are well within striking distance. Is this a trade you are willing to make? I am pretty sure that France an UK would rather give up the entirety of Ukraine, rather than risking it.

The problem in general, is that there is so much destructive force gathered in few places (US, Russia, China etc) that even a fraction of that is enough to blow up the whole planet.

This is practically what Boris Johnson replied to the Ukrainian journalist a few days ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hqzk1JNXKm0

When you talk about the no-fly zone … unfortunately the implication of that is that the UK would be engaged in shooting down Russian planes, would be engaged in direct combat with Russia. That’s not something we can do.”

Objectivity
03-03-2022, 03:23 PM
Not sure why the rest of the world is letting Russia continue on with this war honestly. He's past the point of no return by killing hundreds of innocent civilians. If I'm NATO or the U.S., I start dropping bombs on strategic targets in Russia that will cripple his military and his nuclear capabilities.


I mean, these sanctions are a joke. So the World Taekwondo League stripped Putin of his Black Belt....yeah, that'll change his mind. :oldlol:

do you even realise your fascist criminal country has been killing milions of innocent people for decades? how can you be this dense? This world will never be safe with USA in it. Best solution would be to balkanize the shithole and let it rot.

Patrick Chewing
03-03-2022, 03:26 PM
what.a.dumbass :roll: you literally have no idea what you're talking about, as hard as it might be for you to understand, Russia actually has superior nuclear capabilities

american hegemony is coming to and end, deal with it psycho

WHAT A TIME

Are you okay?

Patrick Chewing
03-03-2022, 03:41 PM
They have like 8k warheads. Lets say you destroy 90% of the at the first strike. You still have another 800 (obviously they are not all long range). Thats more than enough to wipe out most of europe. Plus you have many submarines carrying nuclear payload, who noone know where the **** they are.

So lets say hypothetically, you can wipe out the whole Russian military, but you lose two major European cities, i.e. London and Paris which are well within striking distance. Is this a trade you are willing to make? I am pretty sure that France an UK would rather give up the entirety of Ukraine, rather than risking it.

The problem in general, is that there is so much destructive force gathered in few places (US, Russia, China etc) that even a fraction of that is enough to blow up the whole planet.

This is practically what Boris Johnson replied to the Ukrainian journalist a few days ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hqzk1JNXKm0

When you talk about the no-fly zone … unfortunately the implication of that is that the UK would be engaged in shooting down Russian planes, would be engaged in direct combat with Russia. That’s not something we can do.”

That's what I was thinking while writing my previous reply, that Europe would not be safe. But then I was thinking, if Russia takes over Ukraine, is Europe truly any safer? Highly doubt he stops at Ukraine as he creeps and creeps further West. And then, if he's shown to be successful, what kind of message does that send to China about their desires to take over Taiwan?

The conundrum is, does the world allow Putin to get stronger, or does it put a stop to Putin which then sends a message to China, if it meant having to risk a few cities along the way?

I just don't see life getting back to normal if the Ukraine falls to Russia.

PAOK
03-03-2022, 04:25 PM
That is true indeed. Personally I think Ukraine will end up a divided country, because its practically impossible to occupy a huge country like Ukraine.

So we will end up with a independent, internationally recognized west Ukraine, and some kind of 'Russian republic of Ukraine' in the East under direct control of the Russians. They could divide it across the Dnipr river.

This way Putin can say he achieved his goals by 'liberating' the russians in east ukraine, and the west can say that that they stood up to Putin, saved democracy and Zelensky hailed as a hero. Everyone will have "won" except for the ukrainian people obviously.

Something similar to modern Cyprus, with the Republic of Cyprus in the south and the turkish-occupied North Cyprus in the north

CeltsGarlic
03-03-2022, 05:58 PM
That is true indeed. Personally I think Ukraine will end up a divided country, because its practically impossible to occupy a huge country like Ukraine.

So we will end up with a independent, internationally recognized west Ukraine, and some kind of 'Russian republic of Ukraine' in the East under direct control of the Russians. They could divide it across the Dnipr river.

This way Putin can say he achieved his goals by 'liberating' the russians in east ukraine, and the west can say that that they stood up to Putin, saved democracy and Zelensky hailed as a hero. Everyone will have "won" except for the ukrainian people obviously.

Something similar to modern Cyprus, with the Republic of Cyprus in the south and the turkish-occupied North Cyprus in the north

It sets Russia 7 more years behind the rest of the developed world even tho they are already trailing by 10 at least. China gonna be importing oil and gasses from Russia and Iran at half the price so at least someone is happy.

Overdrive
03-03-2022, 06:40 PM
Not sure why the rest of the world is letting Russia continue on with this war honestly. He's past the point of no return by killing hundreds of innocent civilians. If I'm NATO or the U.S., I start dropping bombs on strategic targets in Russia that will cripple his military and his nuclear capabilities.


I mean, these sanctions are a joke. So the World Taekwondo League stripped Putin of his Black Belt....yeah, that'll change his mind. :oldlol:

Russia's 2nd biggest oil company lost 99% of it's worth over the past 3 weeks and is begging Putin to end the war.

Overdrive
03-03-2022, 06:42 PM
How many realistic nukes could Russia fire off before the U.S. and NATO completely wipe them off the map? No way a nuke reaches US soil either.

Biden had phone conversations with India, Japan, and Austrailia over the Ukraine as well. If he can convince India to turn on Russia, then there's one less nuclear ally for Russia.

A nuclear war could wipe out most of mankind of Russia and the USA just fire a few % of their heads.

bladefd
03-03-2022, 08:31 PM
How many realistic nukes could Russia fire off before the U.S. and NATO completely wipe them off the map? No way a nuke reaches US soil either.

Biden had phone conversations with India, Japan, and Austrailia over the Ukraine as well. If he can convince India to turn on Russia, then there's one less nuclear ally for Russia.

Well, the moment that Russia fires off a single nuke, the US and their allies would all know it's up & know its trajectory within seconds. If it's on a trajectory to a US city or another NATO city, the US minutemen nukes are ready for launch 24/7/365 within just minutes to the target of choice (hence minutemen). At that point, it becomes nuclear annihilation for both and nuclear winter/fallout for survivors in distant countries from US/Russia/Europe like Australia, South Africa, Argentina, etc.

There are no sneak nukes flying out of the blue and annihilating the US without notice.

diamenz
03-03-2022, 08:39 PM
I just don't see life getting back to normal if the Ukraine falls to Russia.

it already won't go back to normal. the entire nuclear world order has shifted due to this war. ukraine already belongs to putin - there's no way he ends up losing this war imo. as long as he shifts his strategy (he's already smartened up sitting back and sieging the capital... that 20 mile long convoy isn't stalled - it's just sitting back waiting like a cat ready to pounce) and plays his cards right along with holding the obvious trump card when push comes to shove, ukraine is his.

the real question is whether or not putin has ambitions beyond ukraine. if he indeed does, that's when the threshold gets crossed and things really get serious and nato & the us get involved; and the threat of global nuclear conflict ramps up ten fold. that's when you start building your nuclear bunker.

the only real thing that may end up stopping putin in ukraine are his oligarchs... but i don't know how much influence they really have on him, especially at this point where putin is probably unhinged.

bladefd
03-03-2022, 08:39 PM
That is true indeed. Personally I think Ukraine will end up a divided country, because its practically impossible to occupy a huge country like Ukraine.

So we will end up with a independent, internationally recognized west Ukraine, and some kind of 'Russian republic of Ukraine' in the East under direct control of the Russians. They could divide it across the Dnipr river.

This way Putin can say he achieved his goals by 'liberating' the russians in east ukraine, and the west can say that that they stood up to Putin, saved democracy and Zelensky hailed as a hero. Everyone will have "won" except for the ukrainian people obviously.

Something similar to modern Cyprus, with the Republic of Cyprus in the south and the turkish-occupied North Cyprus in the north

That seems to be what we are headed towards. Unless if Russia gets greedy and push for 100% of Ukraine takeover. I don't put anything past Putin to go full savage.

Patrick Chewing
03-03-2022, 09:31 PM
Well, the moment that Russia fires off a single nuke, the US and their allies would all know it's up & know its trajectory within seconds. If it's on a trajectory to a US city or another NATO city, the US minutemen nukes are ready for launch 24/7/365 within just minutes to the target of choice (hence minutemen). At that point, it becomes nuclear annihilation for both and nuclear winter/fallout for survivors in distant countries from US/Russia/Europe like Australia, South Africa, Argentina, etc.

There are no sneak nukes flying out of the blue and annihilating the US without notice.

I don't see how Russia survives launching any nukes if a coalition led by the United States just flattens that country first in a matter of minutes and hours. You say they have 8000 nukes? It'd be a miracle if they launched 10.

I actually like the bounty idea that a rich millionaire or billionaire came out with. He put a one million dollar bounty on Putin's head. In my opinion, that number is too low. Make it a billion. A billion dollars and complete anonymity if they desire.

bladefd
03-03-2022, 10:06 PM
I don't see how Russia survives launching any nukes if a coalition led by the United States just flattens that country first in a matter of minutes and hours. You say they have 8000 nukes? It'd be a miracle if they launched 10.

I actually like the bounty idea that a rich millionaire or billionaire came out with. He put a one million dollar bounty on Putin's head. In my opinion, that number is too low. Make it a billion. A billion dollars and complete anonymity if they desire.

If one country sends up nukes, the other will also send up theirs within minutes. The nuclear alerts include satellites and ground-based detectors from both sides & also other nations so they would pick up the launch of nuclear signatures right away along with the trajectory. It takes 30 minutes for ICBMs to physically travel between US and Russia so it would not be instant vaporization. You don't need that much time to get your response missiles up. Literally 5 minutes is what you need to get them up. Once the response nukes are up in the air, rest in peace.

diamenz
03-03-2022, 10:37 PM
the nukes wouldn't even come from russia, would they? wouldn't they be launched from russian subs in the atlantic?

bladefd
03-03-2022, 11:19 PM
the nukes wouldn't even come from russia, would they? wouldn't they be launched from russian subs in the atlantic?

Well, it's a trifecta of ground-launch ICBMs, bomber nukes, and nuclear subs. Bomber nukes would obviously take a long time to travel so we won't consider those here. I think the majority of the nukes are ground-based ICBMs on both sides, but I'm not 100% sure. ICBMs would take some time to travel - up to 30-60mins depending on location. Nuclear subs are the big unknown because nobody knows where they are at any time. I would think they would have to get in position to launch, and I'm sure when they launch the nukes towards a trajectory, it would be detected. Detectors are setup in a redundant manner so it would be detected if a nuke goes up anywhere.

I don't see a scenario that the entire US would be blown off the face of the planet at the same time with no notice and no moment at all to get the response nukes up. There is a reason why so many nuclear silos are deep underground.

Axe
03-04-2022, 02:53 AM
Because of this happening, toyota has halted their productions and imports/operations in russia. F1 races there are terminated as well.

https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/russia-ukraine-latest-news-2022-03-02/card/toyota-shuts-factory-sales-to-russia-indefinitely-ZGmqTSg5tFRU1kuD0Pv9

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10028530-formula-1-ends-contract-with-russian-grand-prix-after-invasion-of-ukraine.amp.html

So awful. :ohwell:

Sulico
03-04-2022, 04:17 AM
I don't see how Russia survives launching any nukes if a coalition led by the United States just flattens that country first in a matter of minutes and hours. You say they have 8000 nukes? It'd be a miracle if they launched 10.

I actually like the bounty idea that a rich millionaire or billionaire came out with. He put a one million dollar bounty on Putin's head. In my opinion, that number is too low. Make it a billion. A billion dollars and complete anonymity if they desire.

What are you, a clown of some sort around here? Or are you serious? It's hard to believe somebody so out of touch with reality in this age when 90% of information are few clicks of the mouse away.
We got enough nukes on a submarines alone to completely wipe all sentient life from your continent. And our country is 11 time zones wide, with nuclear armed forces spread throughout it. If any NATO bomb explodes on our soil, thats probably means that you already dead, or playing Fallout 2 in real life.

Patrick Chewing
03-04-2022, 12:16 PM
What are you, a clown of some sort around here? Or are you serious? It's hard to believe somebody so out of touch with reality in this age when 90% of information are few clicks of the mouse away.
We got enough nukes on a submarines alone to completely wipe all sentient life from your continent. And our country is 11 time zones wide, with nuclear armed forces spread throughout it. If any NATO bomb explodes on our soil, thats probably means that you already dead, or playing Fallout 2 in real life.

We coming for that Russian ass! You hear me, bitch? Dropping a nuke right on your ****ing head you Commie son of a bitch.

Off the Court
03-04-2022, 12:32 PM
What are you, a clown of some sort around here?

https://c.tenor.com/IcaCZj4IVdEAAAAM/yes-that-is-correct-kenan-thompson.gif

Vino24
03-04-2022, 01:32 PM
Russia will lose more than the war

Lebron23
03-04-2022, 01:37 PM
We coming for that Russian ass! You hear me, bitch? Dropping a nuke right on your ****ing head you Commie son of a bitch.

https://scontent.fmnl25-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/62084976_2378884212332573_1113106363203977216_n.jp g?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=_LiRhednaVMAX8y_6hq&tn=b0tdmudkiBTnS84Q&_nc_ht=scontent.fmnl25-1.fna&oh=00_AT-7yPm_s2fOS_cOKWwM02Vzw3as0Dwj0DxnkiasR0BvEw&oe=62493F4B

Johnny32
03-04-2022, 03:14 PM
what.a.dumbass :roll: you literally have no idea what you're talking about, as hard as it might be for you to understand, Russia actually has superior nuclear capabilities

american hegemony is coming to and end, deal with it psycho

WHAT A TIME

lol neither do you.

Sulico
03-04-2022, 05:51 PM
We coming for that Russian ass! You hear me, bitch? Dropping a nuke right on your ****ing head you Commie son of a bitch.

No you not, boy. Cuz you leaders understand that real nuclear conflict is a little bit tougher than bombing farmers and shepherds by drones, or joining war at the end on winning side.