Why was bron less efficient in the mid/late 2000's?

[Bronbron23]

He wasn't more anymore efficient than kobe. Thoughts?

[3ba11]

Big men started shooting threes as a standard and therefore vacated the lane

This makes it easier for the ball-handler

If we were to invent a beginner format designed to maximize the ball-handler, it would be today's format of hands-off defense, no-impede, and open paint.

[AlternativeAcc.]

He was in his yoing 20s and didn't have peak shaq to take away the defensive attention like Kobe had in his young 20s

Lebron actually evolved as a player throughout his career and always became more efficient over the years. Kobe stayed the same one dimensional chucker his entire career

Crazy Kobe was only known for scoring but lebron scored more at a much better efficiency level. Thats insane.

[3ba11]

He was in his yoing 20s and didn't have peak shaq to take away the defensive attention like Kobe had in his young 20s

Lebron actually evolved as a player throughout his career and always became more efficient over the years. Kobe stayed the same one dimensional chucker his entire career

Crazy Kobe was only known for scoring but lebron scored more at a much better efficiency level. Thats insane.


Kobe's goat scoring diversity allowed the best teammate fits and brand of ball, so he won with less than Lebron, who never learned superior brand of ball required of organic winners.

Learning the best brand and chemistry in the league is required of all organic winners, so Lebron never learned superior brand (how to win) and only learned talent-based winning (team-hopping.. all-star team strategy).

in addition to not knowing how to win, Lebron can't defeat maximum defensive attention like Kobe (can't carry scoring load for playoffs and Finals or title run)

Lebron's big man ball-dominance is the most suboptimal skillset and worst brand of all-time, so he needs the most help

[AlternativeAcc.]

Kobe's goat scoring diversity allowed the best teammate fits and brand of ball, so he won with less than Lebron, who never learned superior brand of ball required of organic winners.

learning the best brand and chemistry in the league is required of all organic winners, so Lebron never learned superior brand (how to win) and only learned talent-based winning (team-hopping.. all-star team strategy).

He won with less... that's why he was missing playoffs and getting bounced early in the playoffs in his prime

Until daddy Pau came along and carried him

:lol

[RogueBorg]

He wasn't more anymore efficient than kobe. Thoughts?

Lebron has one move and that's going to the basket which he was very good at. It's the same reason Deandre Jordan has such a high career FG%, they both shoot at or near the rim. The only reason Kobe has a lower FG% is because his shots were further away from the basket.

For his career, Lebron is shooting .421 from 3-10 feet from the basket. .368 at 10-16 feet. .386 at 16 feet to the 3-point line. And then .345 from the arc.

By comparison, Kobe's distance shooting is .437 from 3-10 feet. .430 10-16 feet. .402 16-3 point line. And finally .329 from 3.

Lebron is not really a more efficient shooter. Like Deandre Jordan, he shoots closer to the basket. Kobe is a better shooter than Lebron away from the basket and it's not close.

Just to add, 36% of all the shots Lebron took for his career came at the rim (0-3 feet). For Kobe, that number is only 22%. On the surface, it looks like Lebron is a more efficient scorer, but when you dig deep he's not, he's just better at getting to the basket like DeAndre Jordan.

[3ba11]

https://i.makeagif.com/media/10-15-2021/t3TEzx.gif

https://i.makeagif.com/media/10-15-2021/LIlDOj.gif




^^^^ Lebron stole his opponent's sidekick (Arenas' sidekick) to beat Arenas in 2006 and 2007.... :confusedshrug:






He won with less... that's why he was missing playoffs and getting bounced early in the playoffs in his prime

Until daddy Pau came along and carried him

:lol


Lebron never defeated maximum defensive attention/burden and always needed equal-scoring partners to attract equal defensive attention.. Otoh, Kobe averaged 10 more than Pau for playoffs and Finals of both title runs, so he has 2 titles where he defeated maximum defensive attention (carried scoring load for playoffs and Finals)

Btw, Lebron missed the playoffs with the East all-star center in 2005 and needed to add a player that was achieving peak Pippen stats - Hughes averaged 22/6/5 with 1st team defense in 2005.. So Lebron needed 3 years to develop his team into a high seed before entering the 06' Playoffs and never had low seeds in the playoffs like Kobe did

[AlternativeAcc.]

Lebron has one move and that's going to the basket which he was very good at. It's the same reason Deandre Jordan has such a high career FG%, they both shoot at or near the rim. The only reason Kobe has a lower FG% is because his shots were further away from the basket.

For his career, Lebron is shooting .421 from 3-10 feet from the basket. .368 at 10-16 feet. .386 at 16 feet to the 3-point line. And then .345 from the arc.

By comparison, Kobe's distance shooting is .437 from 3-10 feet. .430 10-16 feet. .402 16-3 point line. And finally .329 from 3.

Lebron is not really a more efficient shooter. Like Deandre Jordan, he shoots closer to the basket. Kobe is a better shooter than Lebron away from the basket and it's not close.

If Deandre Jordan did it at high volume, he'd be regarded as one of the best scorers of all time like Shaq and Kareem who didn't shoot far from the basket either

But you're talking about a role player putting up high efficiency on limited touches... so you're an idiot without a point per usual

[RogueBorg]

If Deandre Jordan did it at high volume, he'd be regarded as one of the best scorers of all time like Shaq and Kareem who didn't shoot far from the basket either

But you're talking about a role player putting up high efficiency on limited touches... so you're an idiot without a point per usual

Nice, you disputed the Deandre Jordan part of my analogy but stayed far away from the Kobe/Lebron part. Even you know I'm right.

[Airupthere]

Lebron has one move and that's going to the basket which he was very good at. It's the same reason Deandre Jordan has such a high career FG%, they both shoot at or near the rim. The only reason Kobe has a lower FG% is because his shots were further away from the basket.

For his career, Lebron is shooting .421 from 3-10 feet from the basket. .368 at 10-16 feet. .386 at 16 feet to the 3-point line. And then .345 from the arc.

By comparison, Kobe's distance shooting is .437 from 3-10 feet. .430 10-16 feet. .402 16-3 point line. And finally .329 from 3.

Lebron is not really a more efficient shooter. Like Deandre Jordan, he shoots closer to the basket. Kobe is a better shooter than Lebron away from the basket and it's not close.

Just to add, 36% of all the shots Lebron took for his career came at the rim (0-3 feet). For Kobe, that number is only 22%. On the surface, it looks like Lebron is a more efficient scorer, but when you dig deep he's not, he's just better at getting to the basket like DeAndre Jordan.

And it was aggravated/supported by the fact that lebron could bronball in a wide open game where he cant be touched without it being a foul. His numbers are inflated.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Nice, you disputed the Deandre Jordan part of my analogy but stayed far away from the Kobe/Lebron part. Even you know I'm right.

The point about LeBron scoring more on better efficiency?

Even if LeBron did only have one move and was just a brute, which obviously isn't true but we can play along. Even so, in the regular season and most glaringly, the playoffs and finals, LeBron scores much higher and at a much higher efficiency level than Kobe....

So some brute with one move is a far superior scorer than Kobe? is that the point you were making?

God damn :oldlol:

[RogueBorg]

If Deandre Jordan did it at high volume, he'd be regarded as one of the best scorers of all time like Shaq and Kareem who didn't shoot far from the basket either

But you're talking about a role player putting up high efficiency on limited touches...

Deandre Jordan for his career is shooting .674 on 5,323 shot attempts. That's a large enough sample size to know his percentage is not a fluke.

[AlternativeAcc.]

And it was aggravated/supported by the fact that lebron could bronball in a wide open game where he cant be touched without it being a foul. His numbers are inflated.


That's why him and Kobe have the same FTA per game despite LeBron being the much more physical player?

Hmmmm

[AlternativeAcc.]

Deandre Jordan for his career is shooting .674 on 5,323 shot attempts. That's a large enough sample size to know his percentage is not a fluke.


Are you still doubling down on this?

yes, Jordan at 9ppg is one of the greatest scorers ever.

:facepalm


Deandre > Kobe

[SouBeachTalents]

Deandre Jordan for his career is shooting .674 on 5,323 shot attempts. That's a large enough sample size to know his percentage is not a fluke.
He's never taken more than 7 shot attempts per game in his entire career, and nearly his career makes are dunks. It's just an asinine comparison :lol

[RogueBorg]

is that the point you were making?

:

Since you're struggling to keep up let me help you, the point was if Lebron shot a similar number of shots away from the basket as Kobe did, his numbers would look more like Kobe's. The numbers absolutely prove that from 3 feet all the out to the 3-point line. Lebron has better looking numbers because he shoots pretty darn close to twice as many shots at the basket.
From 3-feet all the way out, Kobe is a better shooter. The numbers don't lie.

[RogueBorg]

For their careers

From 3-10 feet
Lebron .421
Kobe .437

From 10-16 feet
Lebron .368
Kobe .430

From 16'-3-point line
Lebron .386
Kobe .402

From the 3-point line
Lebron .345
Kobe .329

[Gudo]

For their careers

From 3-10 feet
Lebron .421
Kobe .437

From 10-16 feet
Lebron .368
Kobe .430

From 16'-3-point line
Lebron .386
Kobe .402

From the 3-point line
Lebron .345
Kobe .329

This should be self-explanatory. A third of Lebron's shots, which is a lot for a wing player, comes from within 3ft and hence pulls up his overall fg%.

[RogueBorg]

This should be self-explanatory. A third of Lebron's shots, which is a lot for a wing player, comes from within 3ft and hence pulls up his overall fg%.

It should be self-explanatory, you get it :applause:

The other ones...not so much.

[Bronbron23]

He was in his yoing 20s and didn't have peak shaq to take away the defensive attention like Kobe had in his young 20s

Lebron actually evolved as a player throughout his career and always became more efficient over the years. Kobe stayed the same one dimensional chucker his entire career

Crazy Kobe was only known for scoring but lebron scored more at a much better efficiency level. Thats insane.

Can't really use the he was young and improving excuse because that would totally destroy yall mj 1-9 argument. Can't have it both ways. So why was he so much less inefficient? Has to be because it was a tougher scoring era right?

[Airupthere]

Can't really use the he was young and improving excuse because that would totally destroy yall mj 1-9 argument. Can't have it both ways. So why was he so much less inefficient? Has to be because it was a tougher scoring era right?

Check. Mate. :pimp:

[3ba11]

Can't really use the he was young and improving excuse because that would totally destroy yall mj 1-9 argument. Can't have it both ways. So why was he so much less inefficient? Has to be because it was a tougher scoring era right?


It was a tougher scoring era like you said, and also Lebron didn't have the equal-scoring partners to attract equal defensive attention back then, so he was facing maximum defensive attention - he's always lacked the elite jumpshooting skill needed to defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load).

But after the "decision", he had sidekicks that were capable of matching or exceeded his scoring for entire playoff runs (11' Wade, 16', Kyrie, 20' AD), which caused reduced defensive attention and higher efficiency.

[tontoz]

Looking at the numbers one thing really jumps out. His 2pt% is literally 10% higher now than it was in his early 20s.

[3ba11]

Looking at the numbers one thing really jumps out. His 2pt% is literally 10% higher now than it was in his early 20s.


after the "decision", Lebron had sidekicks that were capable of matching or exceeded his scoring for entire playoff runs (11' Wade, 16', Kyrie, 20' AD), which caused reduced defensive attention and higher efficiency.

This is the case for everyone in history.. Everyone had equal-scoring partners to attract equal defensive attention for various playoff runs, so they had periods without facing maximum defensive attention - any period without facing maximum defensive attention is inflated stats compared to Jordan, who carried the scoring load in every SERIES, let alone playoff run.

[tontoz]

after the "decision", Lebron had sidekicks that were capable of matching or exceeded his scoring for entire playoff runs (11' Wade, 16', Kyrie, 20' AD), which caused reduced defensive attention and higher efficiency.

.


Dude you are so busy copy and pasting nonsense that you aren't capable of coherent thought. My post wasn't even referencing his years in Miami or his 2nd stint with the Cavs.

I am referencing this season vs his early 20s.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Can't really use the he was young and improving excuse because that would totally destroy yall mj 1-9 argument. Can't have it both ways. So why was he so much less inefficient? Has to be because it was a tougher scoring era right?

It's not a proper analogy dipshit. You can be young and improving and still not go 1-9 in the playoffs....

You're the one comparing young 20's LeBron to prime Kobe in scoring efficiency, has literally nothing to do with Jordan's playoff failures without Pippen

lmao, you're a joke

[GOATKawhi_2]

Its pretty common for guards and wings to peak in their mid to late 20s I think.

Bird kawhi harden curry

[Indian guy]

You mean to say 19-23 year old LeBron was not as efficient as Kobe in his absolute prime (06-09)?

From 2009 onward, LeBron posted a higher TS% than Kobe's best (2008) for 6 consecutive season (09-14) and 13 of the next 14 seasons overall. Heck, current 37 year old LeBron has a higher TS% than Kobe ever did.

[Bronbron23]

It's not a proper analogy dipshit. You can be young and improving and still not go 1-9 in the playoffs....

You're the one comparing young 20's LeBron to prime Kobe in scoring efficiency, has literally nothing to do with Jordan's playoff failures without Pippen

lmao, you're a joke

It's the exact same thing dip shit you just don't like it because it makes you guys look like the idiots you are.

Fact is brons efficiency got better when the league got easier. Truth hurts bitch:oldlol:

[ShawkFactory]

It's the exact same thing dip shit you just don't like it because it makes you guys look like the idiots you are.

Fact is brons efficiency got better when the league got easier. Truth hurts bitch:oldlol:

Why is this a thread?

[AlternativeAcc.]

It's the exact same thing dip shit you just don't like it because it makes you guys look like the idiots you are.

Fact is brons efficiency got better when the league got easier. Truth hurts bitch:oldlol:

And Kobes got worse when the league got supposedly easier... you are so profound man

Really made a killer point here. Lebrons efficiency got better as he got older, like the vast majority of players. Except Kobe who sucked. Profound!

[Bronbron23]

And Kobes got worse when the league got supposedly easier... you are so profound man

Really made a killer point here. Lebrons efficiency got better as he got older, like the vast majority of players. Except Kobe who sucked. Profound!

Cool so 1-9 is a load of shit glad we agree:pimp:

[GimmeThat]

because they didn't play him at the 2. back then 3-D guys were all practically at the 2, instead of the 3 (there's a trend here, if you will) and the other prototypical All Star SF was Paul Pierce.

Sasha Pavlovic' is practically modern day Danny Green, and he averaged 1.6 3PA for his career, with a peak at 2.2 with .405%.


even when they did do the pick and roll for Bron to get his favorite match up on the offensive end and increased team efficiency, the Cavs did a lot more aggressive man to man than zone help defense then. because their philosophy was all about match-up and size instead of playing the percentages.

[ImKobe]

"Kobe was an inefficient chucker"

Playoffs 06-10

Kobe: 30/6/5 46.7%FG/57%TS
Bran: 29/8/7 45.9%FG/56.1%TS


And Kobes got worse when the league got supposedly easier... you are so profound man

Really made a killer point here. Lebrons efficiency got better as he got older, like the vast majority of players. Except Kobe who sucked. Profound!

Kobe had three season-ending injuries in a row and played with the worst supporting cast in the league lmao.

His final healthy year (year 17) he averaged 27/6/6 on 57%TS and as a scorer averaged 29.2 ppg on 46.4%FG/57%TS in the first 41 games of the season before switching over to playing more point guard as both Nash & Blake dealt with injuries. He averaged 29/6/7 post-ASB playing in that Harden role in the MDA offense and the Lakers were 17 - 7 in those games, they had one of the 3 or 5 best records post-ASB. That's the last of a healthy Kobe in somewhat of a modern NBA under MDA.

[ArbitraryWater]

Because he was still growing as a player, with a worse jumper and worse shot selection?

Lol

[TheCorporation]

"Why was 18 year old LeBron less efficient than 28 year old LeBron?"

Um...OP? :lol

[Full Court]

Because he actually tried to play defense back then. He split his energy between offense and defense.