If Lebron never left Cavs (never colluded), Curry 4-peats from 15-18' and is top 5

[3ba11]

Lebron's colluding ruined Curry's natural path to greatness by distorting the competitive environment - it's like steroids where everyone must collude if 1 guy has already colluded.

Ultimately, teams like the 04' Pistons or 11' Mavs won with superior chemistry and brand of ball, not superior talent - the Warriors, Spurs or 90's Bulls also developed the best brand of ball in the league.. So teams win organically by developing the best brand of ball - Lebron never learned the best brand (how to win) and only learned talent-based winning (team-hopping.. all-star team strategy)..

Accordingly, Curry is superior because he knows how to win (organic) and also has the elite jumpshooting skill to defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load in playoffs and Finals while winning chip)

[Johnny32]

If duh bulls never traded for pippen jordone wins zero rings.

[3ba11]

If duh bulls never traded for pippen jordone wins zero rings.


Acquiring a 7 ppg rookie that needs tons of development isn't a super-team

Whereas Lebron formed a super-team that was clearly superior to everyone in the league, aka "not 6, not 7"

Lebron had 1st option perennial all-stars to play 2nd and 3rd option (unprecedented)

He asked the league "who has the highest PER aside from me?"... And he teamed up with that guy - Wade was #2 in everything in 2010 (PER, BPM, VORP, WS/48).. That's like Kobe teaming up with Tmac or Magic with Bird, aka UNPRECEDENTED

[Legend248]

If duh bulls never traded for pippen jordone wins zero rings.

not to be mean but you sir are a f**king idiot smh do you actually think before you post?

[Hey Yo]

If MJ didn't quit in his prime to load manage, he doesnt win those last 3* rings.

[Johnny32]

not to be mean but you sir are a f**king idiot smh do you actually think before you post?

Prove me wrong? Oh, you can't. Unlike LeGOAT, Jordan couldn't win being a teams primary playmaker, scorer, and defender. He wouldn't have lasted as long as he did. Which is embarrassing considering he quit twice due to mental and physical exhaustion with a reduced role.

[3ba11]

Prove me wrong?





Lebron needs better scorers and passers than Pippen:



Career APG

Westbrook..... 8.6
Rondo............ 8.0
Kyrie.............. 5.7
Wade............. 5.4
Jordan........... 5.3
Pippen........... 5.2


And he needs 2 Pippen's (super-team big 3) - he never won without super-teams as the clear-cut top producer (AD led the Lakers in scoring for 20' regular season and playoffs)

[AlternativeAcc.]

No, because Harden never gets traded from OKC, thus OKC dominates the west for the next decade. Not to mention, the overall butterfly effect that takes place where Klay or Dray don't go to Golden State


Do you ever think anything through? Ever?


Curry is ringless and hypeless in that scenario

[ShawkFactory]

Lebron's colluding ruined Curry's natural path to greatness by distorting the competitive environment - it's like steroids where everyone must collude if 1 guy has already colluded.

Ultimately, teams like the 04' Pistons or 11' Mavs won with superior chemistry and brand of ball, not superior talent - the Warriors, Spurs or 90's Bulls also developed the best brand of ball in the league.. So teams win organically by developing the best brand of ball - Lebron never learned the best brand (how to win) and only learned talent-based winning (team-hopping.. all-star team strategy)..

Accordingly, Curry is superior because he knows how to win (organic) and also has the elite jumpshooting skill to defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load in playoffs and Finals while winning chip)

None of this has anything to do with Curry's greatness.

[3ba11]

No, because Harden never gets traded from OKC, thus OKC dominates the west for the next decade. Not to mention, the overall butterfly effect that takes place where Klay or Dray don't go to Golden State


Do you ever think anything through? Ever?


Curry is ringless and hypeless in that scenario


Lebron ruined the natural competitive environment by colluding, so guys like KD were robbed of organic titles in 2012 onwards.. Duncan was robbed in 13'.. And Curry in 16

Lebron's colluding forced everyone else to collude - it's like steroids where 1 guy does it so everyone else is forced to

[Axe]

No kerr = second round fodder

[3ba11]

No kerr = second round fodder


No Mo = bummy, 45-win loser..... And 2nd Round fodder

[Axe]

Baloney. Curry wouldn't have made it to consecutive finals without his current head coach.

[3ba11]

Baloney. Curry wouldn't have made it to consecutive finals without his current head coach.


Lebron and Coach Brown were bummy 45-win losers in 2008 before adding Klay-level offense in 2009 (Mo) - this taught everyone for the first time that Lebron needs shooters.. Mo taught us that

[Axe]

Ok bub. Mo williams was better than kobe bryant then.

[3ba11]

Ok bub. Mo williams was better than kobe bryant then.


Lebron's skillset is the same as it was at 10 years old when he was discovered - big man ball-dominance

So Lebron isn't good enough to be coached, hence the lower team ceilings/Finals records - he's a talent-based winner that simply amasses enough talent to win (all-star team strategy)... Talent-based winning has a lottery record against organic teamwork (Spurs, Warriors, Mavs)..

It's funny because Lebron's all-star teams lose to organic juggernauts, so that's all teams in the 90's

[Axe]

6-16 :sleeping

[Spurs m8]

3ball running circles around these clowns

[3ba11]

6-16 :sleeping


Kobe's "jordan" skillset > big man ball-dominance

Big man ball-dominance ties a coach's hands and forces them to play 1 way (letting the big man dominate the ball) - this has poor teammate fits and it's also a low-team-assist brand that gets destroyed by superior brands of ball movement..

It's basically a beginner format with the big man dominating the ball and 4 shooters (predictable and easily beatable - requires exorbitant talent to win).

Otoh, Kobe's goat scoring diversity (complete with elite jumpshooting skill) allowed a coach to run any strategy or system they want.. Kobe's diversity fit with everyone and allowed the best strategies, so he won more with less - he only needed Bosh at 2nd option, not 3rd like Lebron (edit: I mean Pau, who is a Bosh-caliber player).

Furthermore, Lebron's abnormal ball-dominance for his position lets the defense rest, so they have more capacity to go off offensively.. That's why the excuse for losses is always "they just got hot", like the 14' Finals, 09' ECF, 11' Finals, or 17' and 18' Finals.. The record losses in 14' and 18' are because he has record ball-dominance for a frontcourt player.

[Axe]

4 > 2

[3ba11]

4 > 2


2 organic chips (best brand of ball) while defeating max defensive attention (carrying scoring load)

>

3 talent-based chips (colluded super-team) without facing max defensive attention (equal-scoring partners) and 1 regular chip as the "pippen" (lower scorer)

Kobe also carried Shaq to a 3-peat as the "bailout" guy (#1 option in 4th and clutch)

[GOATKawhi_2]

Thr problem is curry also colluded with a better player then LeBron has ever colluded with (Durant)

[3ba11]

Thr problem is curry also colluded with a better player then LeBron has ever colluded with (Durant)


If Lebron never left Cleveland, then KD wins in 2012 and never leaves OKC.

Lebron ruined the natural competitive environment for everyone

So Curry can't be expected to win organically if his main competition is stacking the deck and colluding.

In 2011, Lebron asked the league "who has the highest PER aside from me?".. And he teamed up with that guy - Wade was #2 in everything (PER, BPM, VORP, WS/48) - that's like Kobe teaming up with Tmac or Magic with Bird, aka UNPRECEDENTED.

[NBAGOAT]

If Lebron never left Cleveland, then KD wins in 2012 and never leaves OKC.

Lebron ruined the natural competitive environment for everyone

So Curry can't be expected to win organically if his main competition is stacking the deck and colluding.

In 2011, Lebron asked the league "who has the highest PER aside from me?".. And he teamed up with that guy - Wade was #2 in everything (PER, BPM, VORP, WS/48) - that's like Kobe teaming up with Tmac or Magic with Bird, aka UNPRECEDENTED.

We really are arguing some unknown and pointless hypotheticals. Still I think I can say if kd wins in 2012(no guarantee vs Boston), then okc keeps harden. Warriors aren’t 4peating vs okcs big 3. As always, logical thinking and knowing modern basketball isn’t your strong suit :lol

[Johnny32]

Prove me wrong? Oh, you can't. Unlike LeGOAT, Jordan couldn't win being a teams primary playmaker, scorer, and defender. He wouldn't have lasted as long as he did. Which is embarrassing considering he quit twice due to mental and physical exhaustion with a reduced role.

they can't.

[Baller789]

not to be mean but you sir are a f**king idiot smh do you actually think before you post?


Prove me wrong? Oh, you can't. Unlike LeGOAT, Jordan couldn't win being a teams primary playmaker, scorer, and defender. He wouldn't have lasted as long as he did. Which is embarrassing considering he quit twice due to mental and physical exhaustion with a reduced role.

Johnny Boi getting triggerred by some inactive neutral poster.

:yaohappy:

[Johnny32]

not to be mean but you sir are a f**king idiot smh do you actually think before you post?

hurrr, yeah it was me who was "triggered" fatboy.

[Baller789]

hurrr, yeah it was me who was "triggered" fatboy.

Hurrr durrr.

Thank you for proving my point.

[Ne 1]

Soo you're upset LeBron took his career into his own hands because his front office was too inadequate to get him actual talent enough to win? Also you put ABSOLUTELY NO blame on the 08 Celtics whatsoever who predate Miami by 3 years? Lol you are truly a lost soul in this debate bruh.There’s only so far you can push mediocre talent man idk why ya'll don't understand that.

[Mr.GOAT2408]

Interesting hypothetical OP

Here's another one: if the 3 point line and 04 rule changes never happened would Steph even be a top 25 player in his own era???

[Phoenix]

Isn't Steph one of the 'beginner format 3's and layups' overrated players 3nutball was bitching about last year? Another one of those 'well actuallllly' about faces like Giannis being a 'Pippen level bum carried by Middleton' to a 'top 10 GOAT' within a month.

[SouBeachTalents]

Isn't Steph one of the 'beginner format 3's and layups' overrated players 3nutball was bitching about last year? Another one of those 'well actuallllly' about faces like Giannis being a 'Pippen level bum carried by Middleton' to a 'top 10 GOAT' within a month.
Yep, he called Curry the most overrated player of all time last year, then moved him up to top 5 all time like two weeks into the regular season :lol