Derrick Rose is so damn overrated

[StrongLurk]

I think he is the most overrated player over the last 20 years. Even his MVP year, he probably wasn't a top 5 player. So many people act like he was gonna be the goat PG or something.

Newsflash, he played a whole season after his MVP year and put up 22/4/8 on 44/31/81 splits, 23 PER, 53.2 TS%, 6.4 BPM. Like yeah, the dude was good but come on, he wasn't a generational player like a Durant or Curry.

[warriorfan]

@PeroAntic







I think he is the most overrated player over the last 20 years. Even his MVP year, he probably wasn't a top 5 player. So many people act like he was gonna be the goat PG or something.

Newsflash, he played a whole season after his MVP year and put up 22/4/8 on 44/31/81 splits, 23 PER, 53.2 TS%, 6.4 BPM. Like yeah, the dude was good but come on, he wasn't a generational player like a Durant or Curry.



I’ve always viewed Rose as a great player who was rising to superstar status but got derailed by injuries. Also the youngest MVP.

[WhiteKyrie]

He didn’t have the opportunity to be a generational player, moron. Youngest MVP ever and blew his ACL the very next season at only 23 years old.

Such a dumb line of thinking from OP.

People are creaming their pants for Ja now, which makes sense as he looks like a generational talent, who plays like D-Rose then, only he’s less clutch and similar numbers but in a league with way more pace and possessions, and also plays with superior offensive talent by comparison to 2011 D-Rose who accounted for more of his teams offense. And as I said was more clutch.

[Im so nba'd out]

The most overrated person of the past 20 years is Kevin Durant….some ppl actually have him in their top 10 :oldlol:

[PeroAntic]

@PeroAntic


thanks bro, I'll take it from here.

ok op, you need to shut the **** up. Do you hear me? shut the **** up. you have no idea what youre talking about.

Rose was a unique player and an absolute force of nature that no one has ever seen before. He was a phenomenon that still inspires kids and current players (ummm JA anyone?). You think its by accident that he is top 5 in Allstar votes even today? There was never before such a combination of athleticism and skill in that size. And he had the heart of a champion and clutch ability, carrying an offensively challenged team to #1 seed.

I'd delete this thread if I were you. Every single NBA player has nothing but respect for Rose.

[Shogon]

The most overrated person of the past 20 years is Kevin Durant….some ppl actually have him in their top 10 :oldlol:


NBA basketball is 5 on 5, there's no question about that, and it really ****s people up that can't understand as such.

That being said, Kevin Durant is probably the best 1 on 1 player in NBA history. Only two guys I'd hesitate to take him over are Garnett and Olajuwon.

Being the best or damn near best at anything in NBA history has to count for something.

KD is easily a top 20 player of all time.

[tontoz]

Rose might have been overrated when he won MVP but he hasn't been overrated in years. Making this thread now is pretty pointless.

[Im Still Ballin]

NBA basketball is 5 on 5, there's no question about that, and it really ****s people up that can't understand as such.

That being said, Kevin Durant is probably the best 1 on 1 player in NBA history. Only two guys I'd hesitate to take him over are Garnett and Olajuwon.

Being the best or damn near best at anything in NBA history has to count for something.

KD is easily a top 20 player of all time.

Garnett?

Dude!

https://c.tenor.com/wcD_-VxeWDcAAAAM/ha-funny.gif

[insight]

NBA basketball is 5 on 5, there's no question about that, and it really ****s people up that can't understand as such.

That being said, Kevin Durant is probably the best 1 on 1 player in NBA history. Only two guys I'd hesitate to take him over are Garnett and Olajuwon.

Being the best or damn near best at anything in NBA history has to count for something.

KD is easily a top 20 player of all time.

Michael Jordan is the best 1 on 1 player of all time. Period end of story.

[WhiteKyrie]

Michael Jordan is the best 1 on 1 player of all time. Period end of story.

Closest case is Kobe. Then Iverson or KD.

[StrongLurk]

He didn’t have the opportunity to be a generational player, moron. Youngest MVP ever and blew his ACL the very next season at only 23 years old.

Such a dumb line of thinking from OP.

People are creaming their pants for Ja now, which makes sense as he looks like a generational talent, who plays like D-Rose then, only he’s less clutch and similar numbers but in a league with way more pace and possessions, and also plays with superior offensive talent by comparison to 2011 D-Rose who accounted for more of his teams offense. And as I said was more clutch.

I am aware he injured his acl in the playoffs the next year...but he had a whole season to show he deserved the MVP and he actually had a worse year in 2012 than in 2011...yeah he had potential, but he was not a super skilled player. Great athlete and a pretty decent skillset, but people act like he ALREADY was a generational player when you proved my point...which is he never hit that level. Fact is he had one of the weakest MVP years in the 3-point era.

[PeroAntic]

Fact is he had one of the weakest MVP years in the 3-point era.

Statistically maybe (even though he was the only player that averaged 25+ points and 7+ assists that season), but substantively, hell no. He made people tune in and love the game. They never saw someone like Derrick Rose before. That matters.

[TAZORAC]

Michael Jordan is the best 1 on 1 player of all time. Period end of story.

Jordan doesn't have enough size.

I'd favor Mcgrady over Jordan

[Axe]

Rose was truly a potential player bt but as time went on, his longevity left much to be desired. Nowadays he's just a former shadow of himself. The fact that he wasn't on the top 75 list is just reasonable.

[Johnny32]

lebron took rose's heart and mind. his body was soon to follow.

[RRR3]

NBA basketball is 5 on 5, there's no question about that, and it really ****s people up that can't understand as such.

That being said, Kevin Durant is probably the best 1 on 1 player in NBA history. Only two guys I'd hesitate to take him over are Garnett and Olajuwon.

Being the best or damn near best at anything in NBA history has to count for something.

KD is easily a top 20 player of all time.
LeBron annihilated peak Durant one on one, you can literally google this.

[iamgine]

To me, Rose was definitely a top 4 player that MVP season.

[imdaman99]

Nah not his MVP year. He was special. It's time we stop criticizing guys that won MVP, just because you think your favorite player deserved it more. He was by far the best player on the team with the best record.

[Pointguard]

lebron took rose's heart and mind. his body was soon to follow.

Haha, That definitely didn't happen. Look at Lebron's play the very next series. He was definitely playing like a zombie. Weirdest stuff ever.

[Pointguard]

I am aware he injured his acl in the playoffs the next year...but he had a whole season to show he deserved the MVP and he actually had a worse year in 2012 than in 2011...yeah he had potential, but he was not a super skilled player. Great athlete and a pretty decent skillset, but people act like he ALREADY was a generational player when you proved my point...which is he never hit that level. Fact is he had one of the weakest MVP years in the 3-point era.

Its not that hard to tell he was hurt the year after the MVP. He played in less than half the games on a hobbled foot and its a shame that you couldn't tell. In the age of great point guards, Rose dominated every award and the others weren't close to rookie of the year or MVP when Rose won it. In that year he dominated the great era of PG's (CP, Steve Nash, Westbrook, Steph Curry, J.Kidd - top 75 folk, along with HOFers Tony Parker, Chauncey Billups, Rondo and Lowery.) Deron Williams was still on the HOF course and was on level with Chris Paul for 8 years at this time and in his prime. All of these guys are the same age or older than Rose. Rose was the only PG that guarded the other great PG outside of Paul. And Rose dominated all but two of them that year.

Speaking of primes? All time greats Lebron, Tim Ducan, KG, Dirk, Durant, Wade, Kobe, Dwight Howard, Carmello and Ray Allen, were still having great years. All of these great players mentioned above together didn't get 10 first place votes together that year. And you are questioning his talent? Want more? Which one of these greats have EVER lead a young team and very injured team to the best record in the league without one player, outside of himself, in the top ten in any category. Not one player from that bench got a regular promotion many years later. No bench with injured starters. Its ten years later and Thibes still doesn't have offensive sets. Butler an allstar after Thibes left, Wiggens an allstar after Thibes left, KAT and allstar after Thibes left. Yet Rose lead the league in 4th quarter scoring... .

Still not convinced? Who was the best team against elite teams that year? Chicago dominated the Western Conference that year. Chicago was easily the best team against the elite teams that year. They were the best team after the allstar break. Rose outscored Dwight Howard in the paint in a critical game down the stretch. There were super teams (Lebron, Wade, Bosh and Westbrook, Harden, Durant and Ibaka). Alot guys had reasons to have a better season than young Rose on a young injured team.

At this point to call him overrated is just a lack of insight. Very different if another player did what he did with that team. Not one other player did more, or even had his responsibility in that time period. What more was he suppose to do? Join a super team that was injury proof and not lose a game? People want to say he wasn't the best player at that time. So lets go. Name me the player that had more responsibility, won more games or did more with less? According to the haters, he is suppose to do more. Am I right, AmIRite?

[Axe]

Many times, the best player that came from the team with the best record for a season easily gets the award. Doesn't matter if they came from the stacked ones or not. Their stats do not always have to be heads and shoulders above others as well. Guys like lbj (2009, 2010, 2013), derrick rose (2011), stephen curry (2015, 2016), james harden (2018), greek (2019, 2020), etc. Just to name a few.

[TheGoatest]

By 1990s perimeter player standards, 2011 Rose was a basketball juggernaut leviathan tyrannosaurus rex.

[ImKobe]

I think he is the most overrated player over the last 20 years. Even his MVP year, he probably wasn't a top 5 player. So many people act like he was gonna be the goat PG or something.

Newsflash, he played a whole season after his MVP year and put up 22/4/8 on 44/31/81 splits, 23 PER, 53.2 TS%, 6.4 BPM. Like yeah, the dude was good but come on, he wasn't a generational player like a Durant or Curry.

He was top 10 in PER, top 5 in WS, 3rd in BPM, 2nd in VORP and top 5 in total points and top 10 in assists his MVP year. Players weren't putting up insane stats that season either so 25 a game in 2011 is like 28-30 in today's league. Bulls played at a pace of 90.4 that year; the 2022 Mavs are 30th in pace this season at 95.5 so we have to factor all these things in.


You also have to consider that he had to carry that Bulls offense with Boozer and Deng as the 2nd & 3rd options. Bulls got the #1 seed an won 62 games despite Noah missing 34 & Boozer missing 23 games. The Bulls went 24 - 4 post-ASB.

11-12 was also the lockout season so guys would play 5-6 games in a week with B2B2B's. Rose was still top 10 in ppg and apg that year, despite the injuries. He missed damn near half the season in 2012 though.

[Johnny32]

Haha, That definitely didn't happen. Look at Lebron's play the very next series. He was definitely playing like a zombie. Weirdest stuff ever.

"It's hard where a guy, he's running at top speed, he can easily catch up with you," said Rose. "It's extremely hard where a 6-8 guy can easily defend you.".

sure it didn't.

[ArbitraryWater]

He didn’t have the opportunity to be a generational player, moron. Youngest MVP ever and blew his ACL the very next season at only 23 years old.

Such a dumb line of thinking from OP.

People are creaming their pants for Ja now, which makes sense as he looks like a generational talent, who plays like D-Rose then, only he’s less clutch and similar numbers but in a league with way more pace and possessions, and also plays with superior offensive talent by comparison to 2011 D-Rose who accounted for more of his teams offense. And as I said was more clutch.

haha?

[AirBonner]

Some random ceo beat MJ 1 on 1 so some random guy is the best

[Axe]

Some random ceo beat MJ 1 on 1 so some random guy is the best
Err wrong thread

[Axe]

thanks bro, I'll take it from here.

ok op, you need to shut the **** up. Do you hear me? shut the **** up. you have no idea what youre talking about.

Rose was a unique player and an absolute force of nature that no one has ever seen before. He was a phenomenon that still inspires kids and current players (ummm JA anyone?). You think its by accident that he is top 5 in Allstar votes even today? There was never before such a combination of athleticism and skill in that size. And he had the heart of a champion and clutch ability, carrying an offensively challenged team to #1 seed.

I'd delete this thread if I were you. Every single NBA player has nothing but respect for Rose.
:roll:

[PeroAntic]

Stop being so narcissistic for Rose, dingus.

[Axe]

The bulls have made the playoffs in 2013 and 2014 even without his services. Go figure, you window licking turd.

[WhiteKyrie]

He played injured through much of 2012, culminating in the bio mechanics of his first major injury and the Bulls were blowing teams out. He won MVP in his third year and we didn’t even see him stay healthy in his young years and age into his prime and then hit his peak. OP is on the slow side.

[Johnny32]

lebron took rose's heart and mind. his body was soon to follow.

lefax

[Xiao Yao You]

What team will Rose be on after the Mitchell trade goes down?

[kawhileonard2]

I think he is the most overrated player over the last 20 years. Even his MVP year, he probably wasn't a top 5 player. So many people act like he was gonna be the goat PG or something.

Newsflash, he played a whole season after his MVP year and put up 22/4/8 on 44/31/81 splits, 23 PER, 53.2 TS%, 6.4 BPM. Like yeah, the dude was good but come on, he wasn't a generational player like a Durant or Curry.

How wasn’t he a top 5 player with no other allstars on the squad?

[FKAri]

Closest case is Kobe. Then Iverson or KD.

Hakeem would be pretty damn tough in a 1 on 1. Or Barkley. Or Shaq if he gets to start with the ball.

[StrongLurk]

I still see people claiming Rose would've been better than Magic and Curry if he never got injured :roll:

[Atlantis]

Rose might have been overrated when he won MVP but he hasn't been overrated in years. Making this thread now is pretty pointless.

Hey "StrongLurk" (most retarded name ever btw), do you know what year/decade it is?

[Xiao Yao You]

I still see people claiming Rose would've been better than Magic and Curry if he never got injured :roll:

people or PeroAntic?

[Rysio]

He was a great baller with enough talent to go pro not really a true pro.

[bison]

This is true. I never see a guy’s legacy get so much mileage out of a couple peak seasons than Derrick rose.

[Full Court]

That being said, Kevin Durant is probably the best 1 on 1 player in NBA history. Only two guys I'd hesitate to take him over are Garnett and Olajuwon.




Michael Jordan is the best 1 on 1 player of all time. Period end of story.


Closest case is Kobe. Then Iverson or KD.

You guys really think any of those dudes are taking Wilt 1 on 1?

[paksat]

Jordan doesn't have enough size.

I'd favor Mcgrady over Jordan

not sure anyone could beat mcgrady in 1v1

[PeroAntic]

This is true. I never see a guy’s legacy get so much mileage out of a couple peak seasons than Derrick rose.

Wonder why is that. Heres a hint: maybe because he was THAT good.

Prime Rose was something never before seen in the game. Nobody had that mix of skill and athleticism/speed in that size, ever.

[paksat]

Wonder why is that. Heres a hint: maybe because he was THAT good.

Prime Rose was something never before seen in the game. Nobody had that mix of skill and athleticism/speed in that size, ever.

dwyane wade

[PeroAntic]

dwyane wade

In that size I said. But Rose was more explosive than Wade and a better jumpshooter too.

[DMAVS41]

Wonder why is that. Heres a hint: maybe because he was THAT good.

Prime Rose was something never before seen in the game. Nobody had that mix of skill and athleticism/speed in that size, ever.

He wasn't nearly as good as you claim...

At his peak...in the season you claim he was THAT good...he completely melted down in the conference finals and shot like 41% TS or some horrid number and his team was still competitive despite his poor play.

He was a great young player that was never close to the actual best player in the league...he got a bit more credit than he deserved because his supporting cast was super under-rated...and dominated teams when he was off the court.

[PeroAntic]

He wasn't nearly as good as you claim...

At his peak...in the season you claim he was THAT good...he completely melted down in the conference finals and shot like 41% TS or some horrid number and his team was still competitive despite his poor play.

He was a great young player that was never close to the actual best player in the league...he got a bit more credit than he deserved because his supporting cast was super under-rated...and dominated teams when he was off the court.

Stats dont explain the DRose phenomenon. You had to watch him to understand.

He melted down in 2011 playoffs yes. It was his first real playoff contention and he faced the maximum attention of a veteran superteam. He was still figuring out how to win a ring. It took almost a decade for the two best players ever to win a ring, and we should shit on Rose for not being able to do it in three years? Come on.

You just need to hear the awe with which all of his peers talk about him in those times. He was really a unique specimen in the game.

[DMAVS41]

Stats dont explain the DRose phenomenon. You had to watch him to understand.

He melted down in 2011 playoffs yes. It was his first real playoff contention and he faced the maximum attention of a veteran superteam. He was still figuring out how to win a ring. It took almost a decade for the two best players ever to win a ring, and we should shit on Rose for not being able to do it in three years? Come on.

You just need to hear the awe with which all of his peers talk about him in those times. He was really a unique specimen in the game.

No, I agree.

We should accurately describe how good he was without giving him points for his age.

Meaning...it is fair to say that he was not only great, but was almost for sure going to get better and better as he progressed. Super impressive for a player at his age to play at the level he did when healthy in 11 and 12.

None of that, however, changes how good he actually was those years...that has always been my point.

[HoopsNY]

Stats dont explain the DRose phenomenon. You had to watch him to understand.

He melted down in 2011 playoffs yes. It was his first real playoff contention and he faced the maximum attention of a veteran superteam. He was still figuring out how to win a ring. It took almost a decade for the two best players ever to win a ring, and we should shit on Rose for not being able to do it in three years? Come on.

You just need to hear the awe with which all of his peers talk about him in those times. He was really a unique specimen in the game.

I forget but didn't Rose have a series of injuries in 2011, including an ankle sprain in the series against Indy?

[PeroAntic]

No, I agree.

We should accurately describe how good he was without giving him points for his age.

Meaning...it is fair to say that he was not only great, but was almost for sure going to get better and better as he progressed. Super impressive for a player at his age to play at the level he did when healthy in 11 and 12.

None of that, however, changes how good he actually was those years...that has always been my point.

He wouldn't have obtained much better (advanced) stats with age. But seeing how he matured as a veteran, he clearly had the ability to hone his skills and if he wasn't decimated by injuries likely would have followed MJ/Lebron path.

The stats werent what created the Rose myth. It was that he was a unique completely unseen player before, like MJ was, or Lebron, or Curry after.

[PeroAntic]

I forget but didn't Rose have a series of injuries in 2011, including an ankle sprain in the series against Indy?

Don't remember, I think his injuries started in the next season.

[HoopsNY]

Rose validated his MVP credentials during the playoffs, playing as well as anyone in the first two rounds. Quietly, however, he was dealing with troublesome wrist and back injuries, in addition to the left ankle sprain he suffered in the first round against the Indiana Pacers. Rose had become used to simply putting on an ankle brace and playing whenever he had previously sprained an ankle. This time, he required an hour worth of treatment before each game….

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2011/07/12/derrick-rose-admits-he-wore-down-during-playoffs/

[Pointguard]

No, I agree.

We should accurately describe how good he was without giving him points for his age.

Meaning...it is fair to say that he was not only great, but was almost for sure going to get better and better as he progressed. Super impressive for a player at his age to play at the level he did when healthy in 11 and 12.

None of that, however, changes how good he actually was those years...that has always been my point.

Wow ten years later.... It used to be 10,000 hater post.


"In the age of great point guards, Rose dominated every award and the others weren't close to rookie of the year or MVP when Rose won it. In that year he dominated the great era of PG's (CP, Steve Nash, Westbrook, Steph Curry, J.Kidd - top 75 folk, along with HOFers Tony Parker, Chauncey Billups, Rondo and Lowery.) Deron Williams was still on the HOF course and was on level with Chris Paul for 8 years at this time and in his prime. All of these guys are the same age or older than Rose. Rose was the only PG that guarded the other great PG outside of Paul. And Rose dominated all but two of them that year.

Speaking of primes? All time greats Lebron, Tim Ducan, KG, Dirk, Durant, Wade, Kobe, Dwight Howard, Carmello and Ray Allen, were still having great years. All of these great players mentioned above together didn't get 10 first place votes together that year. And you are questioning his talent? Want more? Which one of these greats have EVER lead a young team and very injured team to the best record in the league without one player, outside of himself, in the top ten in any category. Not one player from that bench got a regular promotion many years later. No bench with injured starters. Its ten years later and Thibes still doesn't have offensive sets. Butler an allstar after Thibes left, Wiggens an allstar after Thibes left, KAT and allstar after Thibes left. Yet Rose lead the league in 4th quarter scoring... .

Still not convinced? Who was the best team against elite teams that year? Chicago dominated the Western Conference that year. Chicago was easily the best team against the elite teams that year. They were the best team after the allstar break. Rose outscored Dwight Howard in the paint in a critical game down the stretch. There were super teams (Lebron, Wade, Bosh and Westbrook, Harden, Durant and Ibaka). Alot guys had reasons to have a better season than young Rose on a young injured team.

At this point to call him overrated is just a lack of insight. Very different if another player did what he did with that team. Not one other player did more, or even had his responsibility in that time period. What more was he suppose to do? Join a super team that was injury proof and not lose a game? People want to say he wasn't the best player at that time. So lets go. Name me the player that had more responsibility, won more games or did more with less?"

This is phenonal Without age context.
5 to be all stars all suffered when Thibes was their coach. Rose didn't. The team didn't even play to Roses super athletic strengths. Yet he dominated the top 7 teams that year. Has that everr happened outside of Rose team. His teammates were proven to be barely in the league three years later.

[DMAVS41]

Wow ten years later.... It used to be 10,000 hater post.


"In the age of great point guards, Rose dominated every award and the others weren't close to rookie of the year or MVP when Rose won it. In that year he dominated the great era of PG's (CP, Steve Nash, Westbrook, Steph Curry, J.Kidd - top 75 folk, along with HOFers Tony Parker, Chauncey Billups, Rondo and Lowery.) Deron Williams was still on the HOF course and was on level with Chris Paul for 8 years at this time and in his prime. All of these guys are the same age or older than Rose. Rose was the only PG that guarded the other great PG outside of Paul. And Rose dominated all but two of them that year.

Speaking of primes? All time greats Lebron, Tim Ducan, KG, Dirk, Durant, Wade, Kobe, Dwight Howard, Carmello and Ray Allen, were still having great years. All of these great players mentioned above together didn't get 10 first place votes together that year. And you are questioning his talent? Want more? Which one of these greats have EVER lead a young team and very injured team to the best record in the league without one player, outside of himself, in the top ten in any category. Not one player from that bench got a regular promotion many years later. No bench with injured starters. Its ten years later and Thibes still doesn't have offensive sets. Butler an allstar after Thibes left, Wiggens an allstar after Thibes left, KAT and allstar after Thibes left. Yet Rose lead the league in 4th quarter scoring... .

Still not convinced? Who was the best team against elite teams that year? Chicago dominated the Western Conference that year. Chicago was easily the best team against the elite teams that year. They were the best team after the allstar break. Rose outscored Dwight Howard in the paint in a critical game down the stretch. There were super teams (Lebron, Wade, Bosh and Westbrook, Harden, Durant and Ibaka). Alot guys had reasons to have a better season than young Rose on a young injured team.

At this point to call him overrated is just a lack of insight. Very different if another player did what he did with that team. Not one other player did more, or even had his responsibility in that time period. What more was he suppose to do? Join a super team that was injury proof and not lose a game? People want to say he wasn't the best player at that time. So lets go. Name me the player that had more responsibility, won more games or did more with less?"

This is phenonal Without age context.
5 to be all stars all suffered when Thibes was their coach. Rose didn't. The team didn't even play to Roses super athletic strengths. Yet he dominated the top 7 teams that year. Has that everr happened outside of Rose team. His teammates were proven to be barely in the league three years later.

I was right...you were wrong.

Tell me more about how he was better than Dirk in 2011 though...:roll:

[PeroAntic]

Wow ten years later.... It used to be 10,000 hater post.


"In the age of great point guards, Rose dominated every award and the others weren't close to rookie of the year or MVP when Rose won it. In that year he dominated the great era of PG's (CP, Steve Nash, Westbrook, Steph Curry, J.Kidd - top 75 folk, along with HOFers Tony Parker, Chauncey Billups, Rondo and Lowery.) Deron Williams was still on the HOF course and was on level with Chris Paul for 8 years at this time and in his prime. All of these guys are the same age or older than Rose. Rose was the only PG that guarded the other great PG outside of Paul. And Rose dominated all but two of them that year.

Speaking of primes? All time greats Lebron, Tim Ducan, KG, Dirk, Durant, Wade, Kobe, Dwight Howard, Carmello and Ray Allen, were still having great years. All of these great players mentioned above together didn't get 10 first place votes together that year. And you are questioning his talent? Want more? Which one of these greats have EVER lead a young team and very injured team to the best record in the league without one player, outside of himself, in the top ten in any category. Not one player from that bench got a regular promotion many years later. No bench with injured starters. Its ten years later and Thibes still doesn't have offensive sets. Butler an allstar after Thibes left, Wiggens an allstar after Thibes left, KAT and allstar after Thibes left. Yet Rose lead the league in 4th quarter scoring... .

Still not convinced? Who was the best team against elite teams that year? Chicago dominated the Western Conference that year. Chicago was easily the best team against the elite teams that year. They were the best team after the allstar break. Rose outscored Dwight Howard in the paint in a critical game down the stretch. There were super teams (Lebron, Wade, Bosh and Westbrook, Harden, Durant and Ibaka). Alot guys had reasons to have a better season than young Rose on a young injured team.

At this point to call him overrated is just a lack of insight. Very different if another player did what he did with that team. Not one other player did more, or even had his responsibility in that time period. What more was he suppose to do? Join a super team that was injury proof and not lose a game? People want to say he wasn't the best player at that time. So lets go. Name me the player that had more responsibility, won more games or did more with less?"

This is phenonal Without age context.
5 to be all stars all suffered when Thibes was their coach. Rose didn't. The team didn't even play to Roses super athletic strengths. Yet he dominated the top 7 teams that year. Has that everr happened outside of Rose team. His teammates were proven to be barely in the league three years later.


:bowdown:

[Pointguard]

I was right...you were wrong.

10,000 post deep of hate. 10 yrars later more of the same. Belive what you want to beleive. You can'tanswer my post then or now. Rose was amazing in that he he had the best record on a team that couldn't break a trap.


Tell me more about how he was better than Dirk in 2011 though...:roll:
Dirk played better only in the playoffs. Dirk only averaged 23 ppg and 7 rebounds which is bad for a superstar for the season - people dogged Anthony Davis this year for superior numbers. But I fully understand that Rose should do more Than Dirk in the playoffs with a young inexperienced team when he was 22 years old:lol

[DMAVS41]

10,000 post deep of hate. 10 yrars later more of the same. Belive what you want to beleive. You can'tanswer my post then or now. Rose was amazing in that he he had the best record on a team that couldn't break a trap.

Dirk played better only in the playoffs. Dirk only averaged 23 ppg and 7 rebounds which is bad for a superstar for the season - people dogged Anthony Davis this year for superior numbers. But I fully understand that Rose should do more Than Dirk in the playoffs with a young inexperienced team when he was 22 years old:lol

It is not hate to simply say that Rose deserved MVP, but was not on the short list for best player in the league. He was young and inexperienced...and not efficient enough offensively to warrant that designation. He was propped up by a supporting cast in the regular season that absolutely dominated teams without him on the court.

10 years later and you still think a player can be measured just by raw numbers...unreal you are still this ignorant....and you still can't grasp that being young does not make someone better...you continue, this much later, to grade Rose on an age curve...hard to be this dense, but here you are. It is impressive that he was so good at that age...yet it doesn't make him better than he actually was. Sigh..

But I'll post the glaring difference in supporting cast help, yet again, just so the people new to this can see...

Bulls without Rose on the court...+6 points per 100 in 2011 and +8.7 points per 100 in 2012

That is unreal good. For a star player to be able to go to the bench...and his team still dominates the other team...is not only super valuable, but extremely rare.

Dirk in 2011 you ask? Mavericks were -5.4 points per 100 without Dirk on the floor.

The Bulls supporting cast was 11.4 points per 100 better without Rose on the floor vs the Mavs without Dirk on the floor.

For context, the best supporting cast Dirk had in his prime in terms of (on/off)...was in 2006 when the Mavs were a whopping +.2 points per 100 without him on the court.

LIke I said at the time and I say now...take the L...Rose was a great young talent that was immensely impressive back in the day...he just wasn't as good as prime/peak legends like Dirk...nothing to be ashamed of, but you should just accept it.

[Pointguard]

It is not hate to simply say that Rose deserved MVP, but was not on the short list for best player in the league. He was young and inexperienced...and not efficient enough offensively to warrant that designation. He was propped up by a supporting cast in the regular season that absolutely dominated teams without him on the court. The team was orchesttrated to beat teams after Rose wore the teams down in the 4th quarter. NAME me a better player in the 4th quarter??? There migh have been more efficient players but they were inferior. Young and inexperienced and inefficient but beat every top 7 team after Dec. 15th. Do you think those teams knew where the ball was going in the 4th quarter? And should any knowledgable fan expect efficiency???

And you bring up the bench.... Name me a player from that bench that subsequently ever had a Stable NBA job.... Taj Gibson had like three years where he started for bad bad teams.



10 years later and you still think a player can be measured just by raw numbers...unreal you are still this ignorant
:lol:lol:lol You are the stat guy. i never was that guy idiot. I only bring it up to humiliate you. Like my next statement.

....and you still can't grasp that being young does not make someone better...you continue, this much later, to grade Rose on an age curve...hard to be this dense, but here you are. It is impressive that he was so good at that age...yet it doesn't make him better than he actually was. Sigh..
Name me another player in the history of the game who was at any age, that could go 15 for 15 in beating the top 7 elite teams as the season was endng, largely by his league best 4th quarter play? And their coach had trouble breaking a trap! And smart guys like you think its about effficiency.


But I'll post the glaring difference in supporting cast help, yet again, just so the people new to this can see...

Bulls without Rose on the court...+6 points per 100 in 2011 and +8.7 points per 100 in 2012

That is unreal good. For a star player to be able to go to the bench...and his team still dominates the other team...is not only super valuable, but extremely rare.

Dirk in 2011 you ask? Mavericks were -5.4 points per 100 without Dirk on the floor.

The Bulls supporting cast was 11.4 points per 100 better without Rose on the floor vs the Mavs without Dirk on the floor.

For context, the best supporting cast Dirk had in his prime in terms of (on/off)...was in 2006 when the Mavs were a whopping +.2 points per 100 without him on the court.


Here comes stat guy:lol:lol your igorance is a thing of perpetuity. You used this argument to justify, in your hater diseased mind, that CJ Watson did more for the team than Rose because context is something you can't grasp. You are supposed to lead stats - not have them lead you into abyss of stupidity.

[DMAVS41]

You really are quite pathetic.

You make it sound like I'm arguing that Rose wasn't great and that he didn't deserve MVP. You know both of those arguments to be false, so you have to create something fake to argue against.

I'll say it again. Rose was great in the regular season and really the first two rounds of the playoffs. He absolutely deserved MVP. He was, however, not the best player in the game nor was he as good a player as a guy like Dirk at that time.

You can ignore the supporting cast dominating teams without Rose on the floor all you want, but it won't change reality. It is a massive factor in why the Bulls were as successful as they were. As usual though...you have to change what I'm saying because you can't argue against what I'm actually saying. Rose was clearly the best player on that team and the most important factor for their success...never did I suggest otherwise you liar.

What I have simply said...is that when a star player has the luxury of being off the court and his team still has a net rating that would have been top 5 in the league...it helps a lot. To ignore that the Bulls won a lot of games off of defense and bench play...is just ignorant. Where Rose deserves a ton of credit is getting that team's offense into 11th for the year. That is impressive given the lack of offensive depth help he played with...

Like I said...reality is what it is. You were wrong then...took a massive L in the conference finals with Rose melting down and Dirk leading his team to a title. That has to hurt you so much given all the shit you talked that year. I'd assume you'd get over it 10 plus years removed, but I guess you haven't and you are still doubling down on being objectively wrong.

I'd say take the L again, but I know you won't.

[TheGoatest]

While Rose isn't even a top 15 perimeter player of the 2010s, he would easily be top 5 in the 1990s.

[Pointguard]

You really are quite pathetic.

You make it sound like I'm arguing that Rose wasn't great and that he didn't deserve MVP. You know both of those arguments to be false, so you have to create something fake to argue against.

I'll say it again. Rose was great in the regular season and really the first two rounds of the playoffs. He absolutely deserved MVP. He was, however, not the best player in the game nor was he as good a player as a guy like Dirk at that time.
Simple question. You think its fair to compare 3rd year players to 12 years players in any sport??? Rose who never had a team built around him should be compared to a guy who was doing it for the tenth time? Did Dirk ever lead the league in 4th quarter scoring? Did his team ever dominate the best teams in the league for the final 4 months of the season? Was Dirk ever top 10 in two categories? Comparisons are hard enough.

Do you want to compare melt downs??? Rose was guarding and stoppong Dwade. That can't be considered a melt down because Wade devoured a Dallas team in the finals. Comparisons are just hard. But i'm game if you want to go there.




You can ignore the supporting cast dominating teams without Rose on the floor all you want, but it won't change reality. It is a massive factor in why the Bulls were as successful as they were. As usual though...you have to change what I'm saying because you can't argue against what I'm actually saying. Rose was clearly the best player on that team and the most important factor for their success...never did I suggest otherwise you liar.

Do you want me to show you saying Thibes and defense was the most important factor??? Are you willing to go there? Don't call people liars when you should know better. You are a pathological hater. You got real problems.



Like I said...reality is what it is. You were wrong then...took a massive L in the conference finals with Rose melting down and Dirk leading his team to a title. That has to hurt you so much given all the shit you talked that year. I'd assume you'd get over it 10 plus years removed, but I guess you haven't and you are still doubling down on being objectively wrong.

I'd say take the L again, but I know you won't.

:lol I don't know of a pathological hater that is a Winner? Nor do i care how the disease judges people.

[DMAVS41]

1. Yes if one (you) is making the claim that one player is better than another. This is obvious to anyone with a brain...being in your 3rd year does not make a player better or worse. If you'd like to change your claim that Rose, in his 3rd year, was better than Dirk in his 3rd year...by all means, go ahead and do it. But that isn't the claim you are making...you are making the claim that in 2011...Derrick Rose was a better basketball player than Dirk.

2. The defense and supporting cast were obviously major factors to them winning 62 games. To ignore that is beyond ignorant. I have called Rose the deserving MVP. I have said he was great in the regular season and the first two rounds. I have said, for his age, he was all-time great. I believe I called him a top 5 or top 7 player in the league. If you think it is "pathological hate" to say he wasn't the best player in the league nor as good as Dirk...you are beyond capable of having a rational discussion.

3. I can't make sense of this point. You seem delusional.

[999Guy]

Rose was despicably worse than Chris Paul and Steve Nash and despicably close to Mike Conley and Tony Parker.

Absolutely garbage MVP and didn’t deserve it on any level at all.
But he was young.

Don’t think he would’ve peaked higher than Harden, a guy in his generation, but Westbrook and Durant were on the table.

I will say, the past two years in Detroit and NY, Rose has gotten into being an absolute beast two-way guard.

So if he would’ve ever combined the package of athleticism, skill and motor into a hyper charged version of what he just did, probably a healthy version of himself in mid to late 20’s - oof. That’s a high, high, high peak.

But as his prime went, absolute garbage compared to the guys he won over.

[Pointguard]

1. Yes if one (you) is making the claim that one player is better than another. This is obvious to anyone with a brain...being in your 3rd year does not make a player better or worse. If you'd like to change your claim that Rose, in his 3rd year, was better than Dirk in his 3rd year...by all means, go ahead and do it. But that isn't the claim you are making...you are making the claim that in 2011...Derrick Rose was a better basketball player than Dirk.

I never said that. Please show me where tha's said? Nearly every sport done on earth 12 years experience is better than three.


2. The defense and supporting cast were obviously major factors to them winning 62 games. To ignore that is beyond ignorant. I have called Rose the deserving MVP. I have said he was great in the regular season and the first two rounds. I have said, for his age, he was all-time great. I believe I called him a top 5 or top 7 player in the league. If you think it is "pathological hate" to say he wasn't the best player in the league nor as good as Dirk...you are beyond capable of having a rational discussion.

Pathological hate is 10,000 post and 10 years of this popping up to say sneaky hateful stuff and then act like we are bothering you. There is no deviation in the way you act.

As far as being a top seven player digest this for such a clown sggestion: Name me your six better players. I can guarantee, 100 Proof, that Rose's young and injured team beat them after Dec 15th that year. and that the Bulls didn't lose to any of their teams. And the Bulls played the game close and then gave the ball to Rose to beat the team in the 4th quarter. All of your six players were victimized. 15 out of 15 games the Rose strategy won out. Nothing left to chance. And all six of your players lost. As a group they were dominated. Only the Superteam of Lebron and Dwade got even in the Playoffs.

[Pointguard]

:lol

[DMAVS41]

So, just to be clear.

You admit that Dirk was a better basketball player than Rose in 2011...correct?

[Pointguard]

So, just to be clear.

You admit that Dirk was a better basketball player than Rose in 2011...correct?

Just to be clear, the convo is about Rose and/or your addiction. No, i'm not giving you an escape valve.

[DMAVS41]

Just to be clear, the convo is about Rose and/or your addiction. No, i'm not giving you an escape valve.

I'll take that as a yes. Glad we finally got there.

[Pointguard]

And the disease continues.... .

[Gohan]

NBA basketball is 5 on 5, there's no question about that, and it really ****s people up that can't understand as such.

That being said, Kevin Durant is probably the best 1 on 1 player in NBA history. Only two guys I'd hesitate to take him over are Garnett and Olajuwon.

Being the best or damn near best at anything in NBA history has to count for something.

KD is easily a top 20 player of all time.

Kobe was way better one on one. Durant is just tall, not taking anything away from him but hes not on kobes level skillwise

[kawhileonard2]

This guy used to break Lebron