Kevin McHale improved the '88 Celtics by 11 wins and the '91 Celtics by 16 wins

[Im Still Ballin]

The '88 Celtics went from 51 wins to 62 wins with Kevin. The '91 Celtics went from 47 wins to 63 wins with Kevin.


His WOWY runs were good too after hitting his peak; in 1988, he missed 14 games and the otherwise full-strength Celtics improved from a 51-win clip (3.4 SRS) to a 62-win mark (7.9 SRS) with him, and in 1991, a “healthy” team moved from a 47-win pace (1.9 SRS) in 13 games without him to a 63-win pace with him (8.1 SRS).

He also improved the '86 Celtics from 61 wins to 66, showing you that you could also play alongside other great players. This is that "ceiling-raising" impact.


He also missed 14 games in 1986 and the Celtics improved from a 61-win pace (7.3 SRS) to a 66-win pace with him (9.9 SRS).

What a great talent. You could build an offense around him. You could also fit him in with other great players.

https://images.footballfanatics.com/FFImage/thumb.aspx?i=/productimages/_4291000/ff_4291854-dd90ea82c6d476434a79_full.jpg&w=340

[L.Kizzle]

Kevin McHale started 10 games in the 1991 season.

[Im Still Ballin]

Kevin McHale started 10 games in the 1991 season.

He had a higher usage rate than Bird, Parish, Lewis, and Gamble. He started coming off the bench because of Larry's injuries, allowing him to move back to the PF position. Kevin still played over 30 minutes per game.

[iamgine]

Yeah he was good but not that spectacular. I'd say he's about a top 15 level player in the league at his prime. Certainly able to lead a team and whatnot like current Trae Young or Jayson Tatum.

[GOATKawhi_2]

It was always Bird's team though. Mchale is an elite sidekick like Pau Gasol.

Bird won 2 rings with Mchale averaging 12 points.

What are you trying to get at? Are you saying he was better then Bird?

Bird is always scoring better, rebounding better, passing better. No excuse for the rebounds either when Mchale is taller and plays inside more.

[Im Still Ballin]

It was always Bird's team though. Mchale is an elite sidekick like Pau Gasol.

Bird won 2 rings with Mchale averaging 12 points.

What are you trying to get at? Are you saying he was better then Bird?

Bird is always scoring better, rebounding better, passing better. No excuse for the rebounds either when Mchale is taller and plays inside more.

McHale improved the '91 Celtics by 16 wins. Bird improved them by 19.


The ’91 Celtics played 19 “healthy” games without Bird at a 44-win pace (0.9 SRS). In 52 games with him, they were a 63-win team (8.1 SRS)

They were both great players, but one of them is underappreciated.

[GOATKawhi_2]

McHale improved the '91 Celtics by 16 wins. Bird improved them by 19.



They were both great players, but one of them is underappreciated.

Mchale in 1989 had his chance to show his true dominance that you think he was capable of because Bird sat out all season. They won 42 games. They also didn't even win a playoff game . Who does that sound familiar too? There's another great sidekick who never won a playoff game with grizzles in the mid 2000s. So he's pretty much 80s Gasol. Mchale also started all season in 1989, then in the 90s he was a 6th man majority of the time.

[1987_Lakers]

Mchale in 1989 had his chance to show his true dominance that you think he was capable of because Bird sat out all season. They won 42 games. They also didn't even win a playoff game . Who does that sound familiar too? There's another great sidekick who never won a playoff game with grizzles in the mid 2000s. So he's pretty much 80s Gasol. Mchale also started all season in 1989, then in the 90s he was a 6th man majority of the time.

Clippers made their first ever conference Finals without Kawhi.

[GOATKawhi_2]

Clippers made their first ever conference Finals without Kawhi.

:wtf:

Who led them in VORP and win shares? Kawhi did so shut your mouth

And what you agree with OP? He seems to think mchale is better then bird hahahaha

[iamgine]

If the argument is prime Mchale was close to the same level as post-back injury, 33-35 years old Bird then we can agree.

But if it is to suggest they were in any way close during Bird's prime then it seem highly misguided.

[Im Still Ballin]

Mchale in 1989 had his chance to show his true dominance that you think he was capable of because Bird sat out all season. They won 42 games. They also didn't even win a playoff game . Who does that sound familiar too? There's another great sidekick who never won a playoff game with grizzles in the mid 2000s. So he's pretty much 80s Gasol. Mchale also started all season in 1989, then in the 90s he was a 6th man majority of the time.

Wow. Let's unpack this.

1. The team had a new coach in '88-'89

K.C. Jones retired. This is a huge issue.

2. McHale's minutes were decreased in '88-'89

McHale's minutes per game was decreased from 37.3 MPG in '87-'88 to 36.9 MPG in '88'-'89.

3. McHale's usage rate was in line with what he had always done

Kevin's usage rate was pretty much the same as it had always been. It increased from '87-'88 to '88-'89, but it also increased in '90-'91 when Bird returned. However, started playing fewer minutes and coming off the bench for Larry's sake.

None of this is indicative of someone who's becoming "the alpha" of the team. He's essentially playing the same role he was before. Given he was falling apart physically and already 31, it's not surprising.

4. When healthy, the '88-'89 Celtics were a 45-win pace

Considering an aging, injury-riddled squad with a new coach, 45 wins isn't too shabby.

5. McHale's foot was degenerating

This is the biggest reason for McHale's decline in performance. Despite nerve damage and scar tissue which ails him to this day, McHale still put up 22.5 PPG on 60.8% TS. A respectable result; it shouldn't be used against him to diminish the player he was.

6. Reggie Lewis had the highest usage rate on the '88-'89 team

Title. If anything, Reggie Lewis and Parish took on the offensive burden of Bird not being there.

7. When Bird returned, McHale's efficiency largely remained the same

If all of McHale's 5% drop in FG percentage was because of Bird, why didn't it go back up all the way when he returned?

Answer: Because not all of it was due to Bird not playing.

A large part of that decline in efficiency was simply due to the man getting older and slowing down due to a degenerating foot.

8. They only won 52 games in '89-'90

Another year under a new coach, plus reintroducing Bird improved this team. As would any team when one of its best players returns. But, they didn't go back to that K.C. Jones level of performance.

Why?

Because they were old, broken down, and were no longer the same team. Bird and McHale were no longer who they had used to be; Danny was long gone, and DJ was on his last legs. It was only Parish who was still playing well to his career standards.

[Im Still Ballin]

The best indication of what Kevin McHale could've done as "the man" was the play he showed at his peak when Bird didn't play:



Kevin McHale played 10 games without Larry Bird between 1985 and 1987

1984-1985 (2 games)

27.0 PPG / 11.5 RPG / 1.0 APG / 0.5 SPG / 1.0 BPG on 64.5% FG (10/15.5) and 77.8% FT (7.0/9.0) [69.37% TS]

1986-1987 (8 games)

28.0 PPG / 8.5 RPG / 3.0 APG / 0.5 SPG / 3.4 BPG on 59% FG (10.6/18) and 88.5% FT (6.8/7.6) [65.59% TS]

Combined that is: (10 games)

27.8 PPG / 9.1 RPG / 2.6 APG / 0.5 SPG / 2.9 BPG on 60% FG (10.5/17.5) and 88% FT (6.8/7.8) [66.41% TS]

[L.Kizzle]

The best indication of what Kevin McHale could've done as "the man" was the play he showed at his peak when Bird didn't play:
Ten games eh.

[Axe]

Clippers made their first ever conference Finals without Kawhi.
Ether

[GOATKawhi_2]

Ether

Name the 1 player who won multiple finals mvps over LeBron and curry while eliminating them? I got you bitch

[tontoz]

Bird and McHale were completely different players. I would say Bird was better but would agree McHale gets underrated.

Not only was he an elite post scorer but he also made the All-Defense team 6 times.

[Im Still Ballin]

Bird and McHale were completely different players. I would say Bird was better but would agree McHale gets underrated.

Not only was he an elite post scorer but he also made the All-Defense team 6 times.

I agree. Even though Kevin was a more efficient scorer, Larry showed more range, offensive diversity, and most of all passing. Larry could weaponize his passing to elevate his team's offense; Kevin could never really do that. He probably could have done more, but because of the team he was on, he didn't need to. But I'm not going to mark him down for that.

I'm someone who respects the great talents who sacrifice for the good of the team. Guys like McHale, Worthy, Bobby Jones, Havlicek, Manu, etc. Some individuals mark down these guys, which is something I don't agree with. The league needs more of these guys: unselfish, chemistry-first, win-first.