Rings won by defeating maximum defensive attention (carrying scoring load) since 1980

[3ba11]

.

Averaging 10+ more than sidekick for Playoffs and Finals: (9.5 rounds up to 10)

Curry.......... 15'
Duncan....... 03'
Bird............ 84'
Hakeem...... 94', 95'
Kobe.......... 09', 10'
Jordan........ 91', 92', 93', 96', 97', 98'


Near misses:

Kawhi......... 19'
Giannis....... 21'


People don't call MJ the goat because he had a stacked team - he's goat because he won 6 rings the while defeating maximum defensive attention (carrying the scoring load in playoffs and Finals).. Everyone else has 0-2 rings like this - so he won 3 times as many top-quality rings than anyone else...

Otoh, LeFraud has zero rings while defeating maximum defensive attention.. 6 to 0.. Lebron lacks the elite jumpshooting skill to defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load), so he needs equal-scoring partners (1b's) and closers.. Furthermore, his high scoring too ball-dominant for his position to beat good teams (abnormal ball-dominance), which further necessitates scoring help (star help) to win.

[SATAN]

You should check into FYF Sports Debates next time "the topic" comes up. Would be hilarious.

[ShawkFactory]

People don't call MJ the goat because he had a stacked team

They also don’t call him the GOAT because he “defeated max defensive attention”.

[3ba11]

They also don’t call him the GOAT because he “defeated max defensive attention”.


People don't say those exact words because they don't know that this is the difference between him and everyone else - but believe me - 40k posts on the topic has figured out the difference between MJ and everyone else..

Everyone else had equal-scoring partners to attract equal defensive attention for various playoff runs and therefore didn't always face maximum defensive attention - any period without facing max defensive attention is inflated stats compared to Jordan, who carried the scoring load in every SERIES, let alone playoff run.

Ultimately, Jordan's goat scoring isn't just the 5 ppg advantage that he has over everyone in playoff history - it's the fact that he achieved that advantage against maximum defensive attention while employing championship basketball - only Jordan achieved scoring champion amounts while winning titles - that's how good a scorer he was and how fundamentally-sound he was.

Jordan was good enough to score goat amounts running off screens and with elite jumpshooting skill or quick iso ability - this fits with teammates and allows the best team offensive strategy (ball movement)

[SouBeachTalents]

They also don’t call him the GOAT because he “defeated max defensive attention”.
Yep, the fact Kobe has the 2nd most and is fringe top 10 shows how worthless the criteria really is :lol

[3ba11]

Yep, the fact Kobe has the 2nd most and is fringe top 10 shows how worthless the criteria really is :lol


Defeating maximum defensive attention is a pretty important basketball ability (carrying the scoring load), and 19 years has proven that Lebron cannot do it, while Kobe can.

In addition to defeating maximum defensive attention, Kobe also knows how to win (organic) - learning the best brand and chemistry in the league is required of all organic winners, so Lebron never learned superior brand (how to win) and only learned talent-based winning (team-hopping.. all-star team strategy).

So Lebron can't defeat maximum defensive attention and doesn't know how to win - these are pretty massive things that make him inferior to Kobe - Kobe's elite jumpshooting skill and scoring diversity allowed him to defeat max defensive attention (carry scoring load), while also allowing better fits with teammates and brand development (learn to win)

[tpols]

Great list. I think 2011 Dirk might have slightly missed the mark but going through a super team gauntlet with Jason terry as 2nd option deserves a mention. (no disrespect to terry he's awesome but he's definitely not a superstar sidekick)

[3ba11]

Great list. I think 2011 Dirk might have slightly missed the mark but going through a super team gauntlet with Jason terry as 2nd option deserves a mention. (no disrespect to terry he's awesome but he's definitely not a superstar sidekick)


That's true - 10 more than teammates in the playoffs and 8 more in the Finals is the same as Giannis, so he should be in the near-miss category

[tpols]

Yep, the fact Kobe has the 2nd most and is fringe top 10 shows how worthless the criteria really is :lol

Why do you hate Kobe so much bro? Pau was a 18-19 PPG playoff prime scorer. Kobe was doing 30 while being the focus of the defensive game plan. Why do you deny the truth?

[3ba11]

Why do you hate Kobe so much bro? Pau was a 18-19 PPG playoff prime scorer. Kobe was doing 30 while being the focus of the defensive game plan. Why do you deny the truth?


SouBeach lauds Lebron for his 19 years, but he doesn't realize that those 19 years confirms Lebron always had elite 1st option sidekicks that were close to him in Finals wins and could match his scoring for entire playoff runs (11', 16', 20') - the 19 years confirmed that Lebron can't defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load) and needed elite scorers at sidekick to win.. scoring help is the biggest kind of help (star help)

[AirBonner]

A little premature but I believe Tatum will win a couple titles with maximum defensive attention

[3ba11]

A little premature but I believe Tatum will win a couple titles with maximum defensive attention


He will breakout as a superstar in these playoffs - it's all but guaranteed, so that gives the Celtics automatic upside in the playoffs - the celtics will be BETTER in the playoffs than they are now - and they're on a roll now

[ShawkFactory]

People don't say those exact words because they don't know that this is the difference between him and everyone else - but believe me - 40k posts on the topic has figured out the difference between MJ and everyone else..

Everyone else had equal-scoring partners to attract equal defensive attention for various playoff runs and therefore didn't always face maximum defensive attention - any period without facing max defensive attention is inflated stats compared to Jordan, who carried the scoring load in every SERIES, let alone playoff run.

Ultimately, Jordan's goat scoring isn't just the 5 ppg advantage that he has over everyone in playoff history - it's the fact that he achieved that advantage against maximum defensive attention while employing championship basketball - only Jordan achieved scoring champion amounts while winning titles - that's how good a scorer he was and how fundamentally-sound he was.

Jordan was good enough to score goat amounts running off screens and with elite jumpshooting skill or quick iso ability - this fits with teammates and allows the best team offensive strategy (ball movement)

It’s almost cute, you trying to tell me about Michael Jordan. I feel like I’m helping a senior across the streer

[Ne 1]

Bruh.. Jordan never faced the level of double-triple teams Curry or even Kobe faced because back then that would’ve of been a violation. On top of that, he didn’t face the athletes or name a defensive athletic sg from that era that could at least pretend to play defense on him? Now a player can get double team without even having the ball… back then that was illegal. He had all the space in the world to play 1 vs 1 with no zones.

[3ba11]

Bruh.. Jordan never faced the level of double-triple teams Curry or even Kobe faced because back then that would’ve of been a violation. On top of that, he didn’t face the athletes or name a defensive athletic sg from that era that could at least pretend to play defense on him? Now a player can get double team without even having the ball… back then that was illegal. He had all the space in the world to play 1 vs 1 with no zones.


Without spacing, help defenders were always a couple steps away - the whole purpose of spacing is space-out defenders and make them help from further away.. No spacing = traffic everywhere... no spaces or gaps like today's game

In addition to the lack of modern spacing strategy to make scoring super-easy, Jordan faced maximum defensive attention by carrying the scoring load more than anyone in the history of the game.

[Ne 1]

-Double teams can only be done coming from the weak side. If a perimeter player can get his man top left of the 3pt line a double team can only be done coming from the right corner of the 3pt line.

-You must stay on your man… even if the player is 0/10 on 3s. A player like Rodman could get behind the 3pt line and his defender would have to follow him (so basically opening the floor up for the driver going 1 vs 1)

In the clutch moment of the ‘98 Finals game, Pippen was inbounding and was yelling at Rodman to run to the 3point line so he did and the defender had to follow him and MJ pretty much got the easy 1 vs 1 and a clear path.

[SATAN]

Shooting a mid range jumper over Craig Ehlo is the least impressive thing ever. Literally.

"The shot" :yaohappy:

[Kawhi_Why_Not]

Kawhi is averaging 31PPG and siakam was at 19.0

That is +12

Also total points kawhi was at +277