The 4 kinds of "pure scorer"

[3ba11]

.

1) a great shooter - elite off screen jumpshooting is the only mandatory skill here (aka Curry, Reggie, etc), so guys that were elite off-screens but also added iso-jumpshooting skill are included here too (Dirk, MJ, Kobe).

2) scoring instinct (knowing what move to do, aka quick scoring upon the catch)

3) repertoire - aka "bag"

4) touch - scorers that rely heavily on touch for most field goals, like Alex English, Kareem, Duncan, McAdoo, King, and even a guy like Dominique had tremendous touch - the lack of spacing in previous eras and higher level of contested shot-making required tremendous touch around the paint area to score


The best scorers of all time fuse all three categories - i.e. elite jumpshooting skill including off-screen players, off-the-cuff instinct & "bag", and great touch

Not all pure scoring is good scoring - many pure scorers still can't score high levels with high brand of ball and therefore can't win with high scoring or while carrying the scoring load.. Otoh, players that can drop 30 with elite jumpshooting skill, off-screens or quick iso allow a better brand of ball, so they can win at higher scoring levels or win while carrying the scoring load.

[Axe]

#Ballhoggery

[3ba11]

#Ballhoggery


The goat scorers have a "gunner" element to them where they always believe the next one is going in (fearlessness) - people often describe this as "clutch ability" and it shows up in the clutch-time stats or Finals game-winner stats

[SATAN]

Reminder that ballhog KD demanded the ball, couldn't get past his defender, refused to pass and thew up an air ball for the playoff exit. Sports media gave him a pat on the back for trying. :yaohappy:

[ArbitraryWater]

op literally opened this thread with 3 kinds and added a 4th type of pure scorer on the spot


could there be more, op?

[3ba11]

Reminder that ballhog KD demanded the ball, couldn't get past his defender, refused to pass and thew up an air ball for the playoff exit. Sports media gave him a pat on the back for trying. :yaohappy:


KD has big shots on the biggest stage (Finals), while Lebron has no big shots in 10 Finals - the worst big shot maker in Finals history

Ultimately, KD is capable of being an off-ball assist target that can CLOSE a possession (the bailout guy), while Lebron uses teammates as bailouts - he passes to George Hill amongst the trees instead of exploiting his mismatch with Curry - that's classic Lebron - play dumb basketball and then blame teammates

[ShawkFactory]

KD has big shots on the biggest stage (Finals), while Lebron has no big shots in 10 Finals - the worst big shot maker in Finals history

Ultimately, KD is capable of being an off-ball assist target that can CLOSE a possession (the bailout guy), while Lebron uses teammates as bailouts - he passes to George Hill amongst the trees instead of exploiting his mismatch with Curry - that's classic Lebron - play dumb basketball and then blame teammates

I think you need to watch that play again.

[SouBeachTalents]

KD has big shots on the biggest stage (Finals), while Lebron has no big shots in 10 Finals - the worst big shot maker in Finals history

Ultimately, KD is capable of being an off-ball assist target that can CLOSE a possession (the bailout guy), while Lebron uses teammates as bailouts - he passes to George Hill amongst the trees instead of exploiting his mismatch with Curry - that's classic Lebron - play dumb basketball and then blame teammates
LeBron's jumper over Kawhi was EASILY a bigger shot than Durant's ever hit in the Finals.

[tpols]

KD has big shots on the biggest stage (Finals), while Lebron has no big shots in 10 Finals - the worst big shot maker in Finals history

Ultimately, KD is capable of being an off-ball assist target that can CLOSE a possession (the bailout guy), while Lebron uses teammates as bailouts - he passes to George Hill amongst the trees instead of exploiting his mismatch with Curry - that's classic Lebron - play dumb basketball and then blame teammates

This is true. I was watching the nets game today and KD hit the biggest shot of the game when he hit a catch and shoot 3 to put them up 106-103 late. KD was being blitzed double teamed 35 feet from the basket but as his role player teamates stumbled and bumbled around they always sought him out for the bail out shot all game long. That's what made the 53 even more impressive. It was against maximum defensive attention.

[SATAN]

he passes to George Hill amongst the trees instead of exploiting his mismatch with Curry - that's classic Lebron - play dumb basketball and then blame teammates

How is passing to an open cutter literally 1ft away from the basket a bad play?

Come on, lets see you squirm your way out of this one. :yaohappy:

[3ba11]

How is passing to an open cutter literally 1ft away from the basket a bad play?

Come on, lets see you squirm your way out of this one. :yaohappy:


How many game-winners occur where a 6'1" guy makes an assisted layup amongst trees

Waiting..

It basically never happens..

So it's dumb basketball to try something that basically never happens instead of exploiting an obvious mismatch.. But again - Lebron isn't a closer of possessions and uses his teammates to bailout possessions.. The stats confirm what I'm saying - Lebron has a low assisted-rate (the rate his teammates pass to him for an assist, aka pass to him for a bailout)

It's funny because Lebron is the guy that's supposed to be underneath the rim to bail the team out, not a 6'1" guy, lol

[1987_Lakers]

I think Durant is a better scorer than LeBron while LeBron is obviously the better facilitator.

But I think if you want to talk about what both have done at the big stage 2016 should be highlighted when comparing the two. OKC blew a 3-1 lead vs Golden State and KD totally shit the bed in 3 of the last 4 games, getting outplayed by Westbrook. LeBron just a few weeks later came back vs that same Warriors team and dominated in the process.

[3ba11]

I think Durant is a better scorer than LeBron while LeBron is obviously the better facilitator.

But I think if you want to talk about what both have done at the big stage 2016 should be highlighted when comparing the two. OKC blew a 3-1 lead vs Golden State and KD totally shit the bed in 3 of the last 4 games, getting outplayed by Westbrook. LeBron just a few weeks later came back vs that same Warriors team and dominated in the process.


Westbrook did better with Beal, KD, Paul George, and Harden - only Lebron was a horrific fit for Westbrook'

KD had a contender with Westbrook and got a 3-1 lead, while Lebron is lottery with Westbrook.. And KD's drop-off in the last 3 games doesn't compare to Lebron's 21 on 34% in the last 3 games of 2010 or even worse in 2011.

[SATAN]

How many game-winners occur where a 6'1" guy makes an assisted layup amongst trees

Waiting..



By trees do you mean Klay Thompson/Kelly Oubre Jnr who is a whopping 2 inches taller than 6'4 George Hill? :yaohappy:

LeBron drew the bigger defenders out of the key.

/Thread.

[tpols]

I think Durant is a better scorer than LeBron while LeBron is obviously the better facilitator.

But I think if you want to talk about what both have done at the big stage 2016 should be highlighted when comparing the two. OKC blew a 3-1 lead vs Golden State and KD totally shit the bed in 3 of the last 4 games, getting outplayed by Westbrook. LeBron just a few weeks later came back vs that same Warriors team and dominated in the process.

KD sure didn't have kyrie for his closeout games. He had Westbrick. He also didn't get to face a depleted defense with Bogut out and dray suspended. Swing and a miss.

[1987_Lakers]

Westbrook did better with Beal, KD, Paul George, and Harden - only Lebron was a horrific fit for Westbrook'

KD had a contender with Westbrook and got a 3-1 lead, while Lebron is lottery with Westbrook.. And KD's drop-off in the last 3 games doesn't compare to Lebron's 21 on 34% in the last 3 games of 2010 or even worse in 2011.

Did you not watch Westbrook shoot 46 TS% with Harden in the playoffs? Or how he shit the bed with the Wizards in the postseason as well?

There is a reason why he's been passed around lately. And KD won nothing with Westbrook, despite Westbrook being a better player back then.

[3ba11]

Did you not watch Westbrook shoot 46 TS% with Harden in the playoffs? Or how he shit the bed with the Wizards in the postseason as well?

There is a reason why he's been passed around lately. And KD won nothing with Westbrook, despite Westbrook being a better player back then.


Westbrook made the 8 seed or better with everyone except Lebron - they'll be a play-in team at best, which is worse than Westbrook did everywhere else.

[1987_Lakers]

KD sure didn't have kyrie for his closeout games. He had Westbrick. He also didn't get to face a depleted defense with Bogut out and dray suspended. Swing and a miss.

You gonna blame Westbrook for Durant's terrible shooting in that series?

Game 1: 10 of 30 shooting
Game 4: 8 of 24
Game 5: 12 of 31
Game 6: 10 of 31

Swing and a miss.

[3ba11]

You gonna blame Westbrook for Durant's terrible shooting in that series?

Game 1: 10 of 30 shooting
Game 4: 8 of 24
Game 5: 12 of 31
Game 6: 10 of 31

Swing and a miss.


Imagine Lebron in the 2015 Finals with Westbrook - Lebron would've shot worse than 39% and they would've been swept since Lebron's fit is is lottery-caliber with Westbrook

[tpols]

You gonna blame Westbrook for Durant's terrible shooting in that series?

Game 1: 10 of 30 shooting
Game 4: 8 of 24
Game 5: 12 of 31
Game 6: 10 of 31

Swing and a miss.

Westbrick comparatively didn't do shit in the 2016 WCF closeout games while kyrie dominated in the closeout Finals games. I remember Westbrick got stripped and racked in the clutch while kyrie went off and hit dagger clutch buckets. Everybody knows LeBron would never win with Westbrook. They're the anti clutch and ugliest fit ever.

[ShawkFactory]

KD sure didn't have kyrie for his closeout games. He had Westbrick. He also didn't get to face a depleted defense with Bogut out and dray suspended. Swing and a miss.
They were up 3-1 and lost. All of what you just said could apply for KD > Lebron that year if they had come back 3-1.

But that’s not what happened.

[3ba11]

Westbrick comparatively didn't do shit in the 2016 WCF closeout games while kyrie dominated. I remember Westbrick got stripped and racked in the clutch while kyrie went off and hit dagger clutch buckets. Everybody knows LeBron would never win with Westbrook. They're the anti clutch and ugliest fit ever.


The historical record will show that's exactly what happened in 2022

[1987_Lakers]

Westbrick didn't do shit in the 2016 WCF closeout games while kyrie dominated. I remember Westbrick got stripped and racked in the clutch while kyrie went off and hit dagger clutch buckets. Everybody knows LeBron would never win with Westbrook. They're the anti clutch and ugliest fit ever.

You can't put all the blame on Westbrook though, Durant was just as bad if not worse in some games. What you are doing is weak, completely ignoring how bad Durant played.

[tpols]

You can't put all the blame on Westbrook though, Durant was just as bad if not worse in some games. What you are doing is weak, completely ignoring how bad Durant played.

Durant didn't get to play with Bogut out and dray suspended. If he did he obviously would've had a better line. You realize Bogut had the most blocks in the 2016 NBA playoffs and Dray was the best overall defender? Losing your two best defenders takes a huge toll on things.

[3ba11]

This is true. I was watching the nets game today and KD hit the biggest shot of the game when he hit a catch and shoot 3 to put them up 106-103 late. KD was being blitzed double teamed 35 feet from the basket but as his role player teamates stumbled and bumbled around they always sought him out for the bail out shot all game long. That's what made the 53 even more impressive. It was against maximum defensive attention.


Indeed, KD has the elite jumpshooting skill needed to defeat maximum defensive attention, aka carry the scoring load, while also having the ability to play off-ball so that his high scoring can beat good teams.

[SouBeachTalents]

Durant didn't get to play with Bogut out and dray suspended. If he did he obviously would've had a better line. You realize Bogut had the most blocks in the 2016 NBA playoffs and Dray was the best overall defender? Losing your two best defenders takes a huge toll on things.
Dray played in 6 of the 7 games, and LeBron had literally one of the greatest games of his career with Dray back in Game 6. It's funny though that Dray & Bogut's absence is never mentioned when you're discussing Kyrie's "Wilt like" Game 5 :lol

[1987_Lakers]

Durant didn't get to play with Bogut out and dray suspended. If he did he obviously would've had a better line. You realize Bogut had the most blocks in the 2016 NBA playoffs and Dray was the best overall defender? Losing your two best defenders takes a huge toll on things.

So you're saying Bogut who didn't even play 20 mpg vs OKC is the reason why Durant shot so bad? Lol

And LeBron took a massive dump on the Warriors with Dray n the lineup in game 6.

[Full Court]

You can't put all the blame on Westbrook though, Durant was just as bad if not worse in some games. What you are doing is weak, completely ignoring how bad Durant played.

This is what I've been saying all year. Lol.

[3ba11]

You can't put all the blame on Westbrook though, Durant was just as bad if not worse in some games. What you are doing is weak, completely ignoring how bad Durant played.


Westbrook still fits better with KD than Lebron because KD is elite in more ways and can play more ways - on-ball and off-ball

KD's superior skill level allowed a better fit and contending status with Westbrook, while Lebron is lottery with Westbrook.. San Antonio will overtake the Lakers

[SATAN]

Why are posters acting like Westbrook is even the same player as back then? Dude struggles to make layups now and his "killer mentality" has turned into "please don't call me Westbrick it's taking it's toll on me mentally".

[1987_Lakers]

Westbrook still fits better with KD than Lebron because KD is elite in more ways and can play more ways - on-ball and off-ball

KD's superior skill level allowed a better fit and contending status with Westbrook, while Lebron is lottery with Westbrook.. San Antonio will overtake the Lakers

And LeBron still has more titles than KD.

[1987_Lakers]

This is what I've been saying all year. Lol.

You do know Westbrook was way better in 2016 than he is now right? Current Westbrook is beyond bad.

But you are right, you can't put all the blame on him for this season but he is definitely a major reason why we suck, among our defense which LeBron puts little effort at times, but he's a 37 year old player who has to use his energy on the offensive end. LeBron is basically our only bright spot on offense.

[1987_Lakers]

Dray played in 6 of the 7 games, and LeBron had literally one of the greatest games of his career with Dray back in Game 6. It's funny though that Dray & Bogut's absence is never mentioned when you're discussing Kyrie's "Wilt like" Game 5 :lol

How will tpols weasel his way out of this?

[3ba11]

And LeBron still has more titles than KD.


Lebron stole KD's organic ring in 2012 with his "decision" to form super-teams

Amazingly, Lebron fans seem completely oblivious to the effects of him stacking the deck

He literally hand-picked the preseason favorite from 2011-2016 until KD said "enough with this foolishness"

[1987_Lakers]

Lebron stole KD's organic ring in 2012 with his "decision" to form super-teams



And KD's two titles are "non organic".

[SATAN]

Westbrook still fits better with KD than Lebron because KD is elite in more ways and can play more ways - on-ball and off-ball

KD's superior skill level allowed a better fit and contending status with Westbrook, while Lebron is lottery with Westbrook.. San Antonio will overtake the Lakers

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm :milton

[3ba11]

And KD's two titles are "non organic".


Yes, that's Lebron's fault for starting the "non-organic" trend and ending organic rings

Heck, Lebron's "decision" ruined Curry's organic 4-peat from 15-18' and forced Curry to fetch Lebron's bully - Kevin Durant

[1987_Lakers]

Heck, Lebron's "decision" ruined Curry's organic 4-peat from 15-18' and forced Curry to fetch Lebron's bully - Kevin Durant

He also ruined you.

[3ba11]

He also ruined you.


I've enjoyed becoming an expert on his fraud - the world authority on his fraud and the fake goat debate

Imagine a player that got everyone to say he's #2 without learning how to win (good basketball)...

a talent-based winner (all-star team strategy to offset his big man ball-dominance, aka woat brand)

[StrongLurk]

Bron haters are a unique kind of miserable...the historical record shows this clearly.

[RogueBorg]

#Ballhoggery

If Ballhoggery means shooting more and passing less to the Bill Cartwright's, Stacy King's, Rodney McCray's, Will Perdue's, Scott William's and their ilk of the world, I'm all for it.

[Hey Yo]

Durant didn't get to play with Bogut out and dray suspended. If he did he obviously would've had a better line. You realize Bogut had the most blocks in the 2016 NBA playoffs and Dray was the best overall defender? Losing your two best defenders takes a huge toll on things.

If Bogut was so great, then why did avg only 18mins a game against OKC?

edit.... saw where 87 Lakers already asked and as usual, tpols disappears