80s Kareem and 90s Pippen was around the same level

[iamgine]

Do you think this statement is generally true?

[SouBeachTalents]

No

[Round Mound]

1979 to 1985 Kareem was better. But yeah, 90's Pippen is the most underrated player (atleast for some MJ stans) of the 90's.

[3ba11]

Every sidekick's best was better than Pippen's - Pippen is the only notable sidekick in history that wasn't a threat to dominate or a go-to player, and was carried in every series (never a 1b).

his career timeline confirms that he was propped up by the triangle and dynasty chemistry (system player) - otherwise, he was a 14 ppg dunker that couldn't score.

Accordingly, only MJ lacked a go-to teammate - imagine winning 6 chips without a go-to teammate (https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=4UF6Xx3F2Lo&t=01m54s) and no one to reach Horry-level in the Finals (Horry's gamescore from the 95' Finals)

[SouBeachTalents]

1979 to 1985 Kareem was better. But yeah, 90's Pippen is the most underrated player (atleast for some MJ stans) of the 90's.
Pippen is the most polarizing player of the 90's, but most underrated? Nah, not even close :lol Guys like KJ, Mullin, Richmond & Price are much more underrated than Pippen is.

[3ba11]

If an Iggy-level performer was ranked top 30 all-time, he would be the most overrated player ever..

So Pippen the most overrated player ever - he's overrated by about 70 spots - no one else comes close to that level of overrating

[Axe]

Most overrated player but still got finals mvp votes in 1998 :oldlol:

[3ba11]

Most overrated player but still got finals mvp votes in 1998 :oldlol:


Pippen never got any FMVP votes - infact, he's the only sidekick that never reached Horry-level in the Finals over a meaningful sample - he's 0/6 in reaching Horry's gamescore from the 95' Finals - imagine winning 6 Finals with less help than Horry

Pippen was the only 90's sidekick that couldn't dominate and therefore wasn't a threat or on the scouting report - his 18/7/5 was baked into the cake - most teams can't win with that kind of help like the 11' Heat for example.

[Axe]

Pippen in 1998 was more worthy of being finals mvp than kobe was in 2010.

[3ba11]

Pippen in 1998 was more worthy of being finals mvp than kobe was in 2010.


Kobe averaged 29/5 against maximum defensive attention compared to Pippen's 16/5 unguarded on worse efficiency

So no

The reality is that there's a massive misconception where Jordan would've literally won with tons and tons of guys in Pippen's place - all Jordan needed was a coach to use his goat scoring ability in a truly strategic way, rather than "get MJ the ball and gtfo the way" strategy, which is super-predictable and easily-beatable... For example 91' MJ makes the Finals in 88' with those Bulls, and maybe even in 87' - 91' MJ had learned how to win (brand of ball)

[tanibanana]

People should stop using Pippen stats “alone” when analyzing how great he is or for counter-arguments. Pippen sacrificed his numbers in order to WIN. He is like Manu/Parker to Duncan.

[Kawhi_Why_Not]

Overall impact I would say 1980 Kareem is better and thats it. After he got injured in 80 finals, he just wasn't that guy anymore as far as best in the world.

I would say pippen was probably more impactful then 81-89 Kareem because defense gap is massive.

Kareem was just propped up from 81-89 because he was spoon fed by magic like a baby, also playing next to james worthy who is like an 80s Carmello Anthony type guy as your 3rd wheel.

Having magic was a cheat code for old Kareem. Its like if kawhi or durant suddenly start playing with a clutch 6"9 Chris Paul, their scoring would come so easy. Kareem advanced stats are nothing special from 81-89 at all. He was super stacked teams like KD warriors stacked but in a less stacked era.

[Axe]

Kobe averaged 29/5 against maximum defensive attention compared to Pippen's 16/5 unguarded on worse efficiency

So no

The reality is that there's a massive misconception where Jordan would've literally won with tons and tons of guys in Pippen's place - all Jordan needed was a coach to use his goat scoring ability in a truly strategic way, rather than "get MJ the ball and gtfo the way" strategy, which is super-predictable and easily-beatable... For example 91' MJ makes the Finals in 88' with those Bulls, and maybe even in 87' - 91' MJ had learned how to win (brand of ball)
At least pip was more mature and coachable. Kobe, otoh, wasn't when he was young. Many of his teammates, shaq included, even told that he was selfish when it came to team effort. You should probably read more into it.

[iamgine]

Overall impact I would say 1980 Kareem is better and thats it. After he got injured in 80 finals, he just wasn't that guy anymore as far as best in the world.

I would say pippen was probably more impactful then 81-89 Kareem because defense gap is massive.

Kareem was just propped up from 81-89 because he was spoon fed by magic like a baby, also playing next to james worthy who is like an 80s Carmello Anthony type guy as your 3rd wheel.

Having magic was a cheat code for old Kareem. Its like if kawhi or durant suddenly start playing with a clutch 6"9 Chris Paul, their scoring would come so easy. Kareem advanced stats are nothing special from 81-89 at all. He was super stacked teams like KD warriors stacked but in a less stacked era.

Yeah from '81 onwards Kareem was not the same player. It's normal though, seeing how he was 33 years old.

[mr4speed]

Overall impact I would say 1980 Kareem is better and thats it. After he got injured in 80 finals, he just wasn't that guy anymore as far as best in the world.

I would say pippen was probably more impactful then 81-89 Kareem because defense gap is massive.

Kareem was just propped up from 81-89 because he was spoon fed by magic like a baby, also playing next to james worthy who is like an 80s Carmello Anthony type guy as your 3rd wheel.

Having magic was a cheat code for old Kareem. Its like if kawhi or durant suddenly start playing with a clutch 6"9 Chris Paul, their scoring would come so easy. Kareem advanced stats are nothing special from 81-89 at all. He was super stacked teams like KD warriors stacked but in a less stacked era.

Kareem was still impactful. Lets not forget if LA wins game 7 in the 84 Finals = Kareem would have been the FMVP. Kareem was the FMVP in the 85 Finals ( after his poor game 1) in the next 5 games he put up 28.4 points and 10.2 rebounds and 6.0 assists per game on 61% shooting. "Spoon fed from Magic like a baby" = please stop.

[La Frescobaldi]

Do you think this statement is generally true?

You know what it is kind of a valid idea right there.

33 was monstrous great, so comparing him with Scottie “overall” career would be a cakewalk.

But EIGHTIES ERA #33 was clearly on a team led by Magic Johnson while 90s Bulls was clearly led by Jordan.

The #2 manliness of Jabbar in comparison to the #2 studliness of Scottie Pippen and what did they mean to their team.

One difference of course is type of scoring, Jabbar- Johnson had the prototype Stockton Malone idea going.
Pippen is more like Magic Johnson, running the offense and being everywhere… than he is like Jabbar. And Jordan’s role is more like Jabbar. The completely unstoppable scoring monster.