Lebron is a beginner at the score-first mentality and has no clue how to win that way

[3ba11]

Score-first players win by getting the ball at the end of possessions and ensuring the possession ends positively.

They don't try to initiate the offense AND close - that's low IQ for a score-first player and leaves nothing for teammates to do - horrific chemistry results and that's what we see now - top-tier talent that can't win due to nightmare strategy and circumstance.

Lebron doesn't understand that closing the possession is all that matters - the best player only needs the ball at the end possessions, whereas initiating offense (not turning the ball over) is a role player task.

This also explains why Lebron is at fault for not fitting with Westbrook - Westbrook gets 0.4 more turnovers per game but letting him initiate offense puts Lebron in the proper "closer" role and fixes chemistry.. Unfortunately, Lebron lacks the skills to play off-ball (jumpers off-screens and quick-iso off-the-catch) - so Vogel is forced to play a ridiculous strategy where score-first Lebron is initiating possessions!!

There's a solution to this but I can't reveal it now, even though it's staring everyone in the face

This is the main reason Jordan and Kobe were superior.. They were superior TYPES of players (closers) that win more than initiators - they had the bigger role of closer (ensuring favorable endings to possessions), while lesser players like Pippen or Derek Fisher monitored the ball in the meantime.

[GrayGoat]

LeBron is a beginner scorer but leads everyone in scoring . Interesting

[3ba11]

LeBron is a beginner scorer but leads everyone in scoring . Interesting


He's lottery with a hand-picked super-team because he doesn't know how to win as a scorer

This isn't the first time - he was a similar loser the last time he competed for the scoring title - 45 wins in 2008 before he added Klay-level offense in 2009 (Mo), which taught everyone that Lebron needs shooters.

Jokic currently has the goat PER by holding the ball half as long as Lebron.. So Lebron is a garbage scorer because he can't score with a good brand of ball or without holding the ball too long - remember when Lebron averaged 38/8/8 and lost as a massive favorite to an injured team?... Only Lebron's brand is bad enough to lose with high scoring with a favored team... Only Lebron knows how to lose with a 38 PER as the favorite - only his brand is that bad (big man ball-dominance.. the worst kind of ball-dominance).

[1987_Lakers]

led the playoffs in scoring in 2012


3ball running out of material

[3ba11]

led the playoffs in scoring in 2012


3ball running out of material


Lebron's underdog status to Westbrook in those Finals proves what I'm saying

His severely suboptimal scoring style yields perennial underdogs regardless of cast that mostly lose (barely meet the underdog expectation)

Lebron's suboptimal brand of ball is a perennial underdog regardless of cast, so he sucks compared to the best pure scorers in history like Curry, MJ, Kobe, Bird and more

[1987_Lakers]

Lebron's underdog status to Westbrook in those Finals proves what I'm saying

His severely suboptimal scoring style needs super-teams and still yields perennial Finals underdogs that mostly lose (barely meet the underdog expectation)

Lebron's suboptimal brand of ball is a perennial underdog regardless of cast, so he sucks compared to the best pure scorers in history like Curry, MJ, Kobe, Bird and more

I think I lost brain cells reading that.

[SouBeachTalents]

Lebron sucks compared to the best pure scorers in history like Curry, Kobe, Bird and more
He actually averages more ppg than all 3 of them and has as many FMVP's as the 3 of them combined.

[SouBeachTalents]

PPG doesn't matter without winning - see Allen Iverson

Lebron could never win while carrying the scoring load because his scoring style is suboptimal - if Lebron scores too much, his team's brand becomes too poor to win - that's why he needs equal-scoring partners and closers to give his team a better brand of scoring that can win

That's trash scoring ability compared to the goat scorers mentioned below.

Kobe, Curry, Bird and MJ could carry the scoring load in playoffs and Finals while winning chips because their scoring was optimal (closer-style, aka off-ball) - these guys had elite jumpshooting skill, so the ball still moved when they scored a lot and teammates weren't marginalized.. Contrast that with Lebron, who cratered every teammate that wasn't an elite shooter.
It's hard to believe someone could get so much wrong in a single post. PPG doesn't matter without winning yet LeBron has more rings than Bird or Curry. He's never won carrying the scoring load but he won a title averaging 10 ppg more than his 2nd option in 2013.

And your final point is so dumb it could almost fall under satire.

Finals wins leading their team in scoring
LeBron: 4 times in 4 Finals
Kobe/Curry/Bird: 4 times in 11 Finals

You give LeBron shit for getting outscored by AD by literally 2 points, yet Kobe & Curry got outscored in the playoffs by a lot more than that for the majority of their title runs.

[SATAN]

OP getting his ass handed to him in his own thread once again.
https://i.giphy.com/media/BcmXspAcTSgco/giphy.webp

[3ba11]

He actually averages more ppg than all 3 of them and has as many FMVP's as the 3 of them combined.


The way he gets those points is suboptimal and results in weak brand of ball, so he needs more help than Curry, Kobe or MJ..

Furthermore, he can't carry the scoring load for the same reason - suboptimal scoring style - if the team has to rely on Lebron scoring too much, his team's brand becomes too poor to win - that's why he needs equal-scoring partners and closers to give his team a better brand of scoring that can win

That's trash scoring ability compared to the goat scorers like Kobe, Curry, Bird or MJ, who could score in a way that still allowed great brand of ball, teammate development and carry-jobs - they're style was optimal so the entire game could center around their scoring (carry-job) while teammates and brand thrived.

These guys had elite jumpshooting skill and could run off-screens or quick-iso, so the ball still moved when they scored a lot and teammates weren't marginalized.. Contrast that with Lebron, whose big man ball-dominance cratered every teammate that wasn't an elite shooter.

[1987_Lakers]

3bot repeating himself again.

[3ba11]

3bot repeating himself again.


No, i just completely changed the original response to SouBeach, so that it destroys him, as you see above in post #10

[Axe]

6-16

[Axe]

Also february 7 or 2/7

[1987_Lakers]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfW-MPUjC_0

[nineiron]

problem is that Lebron lacks the skill to close. when he can't get away with traveling and offensive fouls, he's useless. and he's not getting away with those things in the final moments of the game.

[1987_Lakers]

problem is that Lebron lacks the skill to close. when he can't get away with traveling and offensive fouls, he's useless. and he's not getting away with those things in the final moments of the game.

And yet, he is still a better closer than one of the most skilled players ever.


Here are Kobe's game seven stats.

44.2 MPG

22.2 points

FG 38.9%

FT 67.3%

8 RPG

5 APG

1 SPG

1.3 BPG





Here are Kobe's stats when facing elimination.



22.3 PPG

5.8 RPG


3.5 APG

1.3 SPG

1.3 BPG

on a 50.3 TS

[3ba11]

And yet, he is still a better closer than one of the most skilled players ever.


Here are Kobe's game seven stats.

44.2 MPG

22.2 points

FG 38.9%

FT 67.3%

8 RPG

5 APG

1 SPG

1.3 BPG





Here are Kobe's stats when facing elimination.



22.3 PPG

5.8 RPG


3.5 APG

1.3 SPG

1.3 BPG

on a 50.3 TS


Kobe was good enough to score while the team played a great brand of ball and therefore won with a lot less help than Lebron.

Furthermore, his elite jumpshooting skill allowed him to defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load - average 10 more than teammates in playoffs and Finals of title run)

Otoh, Lebron's scoring style yields a shit brand of ball that needs more help to win, while also lacking the elite jumpshooting skill to carry the scoring load - so he needs much more help to win than Kobe

Since Kobe's scoring skillset allowed him to win with less and defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load), he's a far superior scorer to Lebron

[Full Court]

LeBron is a beginner scorer but leads everyone in scoring . Interesting

He also leads a super team to 10 games below .500.

Yep, that's TEN games below now. Let that sink in.

[Shogon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfW-MPUjC_0

Jimmy Two Times? More like Jimmy Six-Thousand, Four-Hundred, Sixty-Three Times.

[1987_Lakers]

Kobe's scoring skillset included off-screens and quick-iso ability, so he was good enough to score while the team played a great brand of ball and therefore won with a lot less help than Lebron.

He won 3 championships with peak Shaq, a guy who's peak is usually regarded as a top 5 peak ever.

How can you shit on LeBron for "not carrying the scoring load" when Kobe literally got outscored by his teammate in 3 of his championship victories?

[1987_Lakers]

He also leads a super team to 10 games below .500.

Yep, that's TEN games below now. Let that sink in.

And you have Wilt in your top 3 player ever.

Who at age 26 in his prime led his team to 18 games below .500

Yep, that's 18 games below now. Let that sink in.

[3ba11]

Jimmy Two Times? More like Jimmy Six-Thousand, Four-Hundred, Sixty-Three Times.


Thread Cliffs

Kobe was a superior scorer than Lebron because his scoring could 1) defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load in playoffs and Finals while winning title - didn't need equal-scoring partners or juggernaut sidekicks like Lebron) and 2) allowed a great brand of ball so he won with less

Otoh, Lebron is a trash scorer by comparison because his scoring can't defeat maximum defensive attention and yields a trash brand that needs more help regardless of cast

[3ba11]

He won 3 championships with peak Shaq, a guy who's peak is usually regarded as a top 5 peak ever.

How can you shit on LeBron for "not carrying the scoring load" when Kobe literally got outscored by his teammate in 3 of his championship victories?


In 2009 and 2010, Kobe won 2 titles while defeating maximum defensive attention (carrying scoring load in playoffs and Finals of a title run).

When did Lebron defeat maximum defensive attention on a title run?... He always had equal-scoring partner or juggernaut 1st options to play sidekick - Kobe didn't need that because his scoring was superior... :confusedshrug:... he could carry the load himself (defeat max defensive attention) because he had elite jumpshooting skill and far superior pure scoring ability.

In addition to defeating max defensive attention, Kobe could win with less because his scoring was partially-assisted (off-ball), which has better teammate fits and allows better strategy - so he can win with less than Lebron.

Being able to defeat max defensive attention and win with less makes Kobe a far superior scorer to Lebron (and player)

[StrongLurk]

What's everyone doing tonight? It's a Tuesday but honestly I'm tired af. Still might go out.

[1987_Lakers]

What's everyone doing tonight? It's a Tuesday but honestly I'm tired af. Still might go out.

Bout to get some tacos. It's 6 pm over here but with the time change and the sun out it still feels early to me.

[3ba11]

What's everyone doing tonight? It's a Tuesday but honestly I'm tired af. Still might go out.


I'm grinding NL cash tonight online.. Legally... It's Nevada

[tpols]

I think I lost brain cells reading that.

Its true. Lebrons Heat and Cavs super teams were pre season favorites and Finals underdogs. I don't think you had many to begin with mate.

[StrongLurk]

Bout to get some tacos. It's 6 pm over here but with the time change and the sun out it still feels early to me.

Tacos...not a bad choice but I prefer burritos.

[3ba11]

Aborting thread immediately so the solution is not revealed

Mods please delete

[Axe]

Aborting thread immediately so the solution is not revealed

Mods please delete
Foolish :lol

[AirBonner]

Aborting thread immediately so the solution is not revealed

Mods please delete

3ball waving the white flag. We win again