Has Kyrie passed Steph Curry as a pointguard?

[AirBonner]

This season

Kyrie: 28/5/5
Curry: 26/5/6

:lebronamazed::milton

[highwhey]

honestly, yes.

[tontoz]

Half man, half a season.

[meat]

Kind of a knee jerk prisoner of the moment thread. You asked a question. Do you have an opinion?

[Xiao Yao You]

Irving has played 19 games for a .500 team while Curry has led one of the top teams in the league. ISH! :roll:

[Airupthere]

Half man, half a season.

:oldlol:

[bizil]

You still gotta go Steph. Skill wise scoring, the top two PG's of all time. I would go with Kyrie over Steph in that regard. BUT Steph is the GOAT shooter. With crazy handles himself. And even though both are score first PG's, I would give Steph the edge passing the rock. Steph alters a defense MORE than any PG ever in terms of how he scores. Kyrie is a beast though and as I said earlier the most skilled scorer ever at the PG.

[ImKobe]

Neither of them are point guards at this point. They're undersized SGs and tbh I'd rather have Kyrie than Curry if I had to pick either for one game or the last shot. Irving just has a much deeper bag when it comes to putting the ball in the hoop and I've never seen him look overwhelmed in a big game like Steph has.

If I had to pick one for a season I'd go with Steph because he's far more likely to play a full season but Irving is the younger player and has less miles on his body, so he's still at the peak of his powers while Steph seems to be in a decline. Irving is 4 years younger than Steph.

[tontoz]

Last season Steph was an MVP finalist. He won the scoring title with a 65% TS.

Kyrie's career high TS for a season is 61.4%. Stephs career average TS is 62.4%.

[SouBeachTalents]

Neither of them are point guards at this point. They're undersized SGs and tbh I'd rather have Kyrie than Curry if I had to pick either for one game or the last shot. Irving just has a much deeper bag when it comes to putting the ball in the hoop and I've never seen him look overwhelmed in a big game like Steph has.

If I had to pick one for a season I'd go with Steph because he's far more likely to play a full season but Irving is the younger player and has less miles on his body, so he's still at the peak of his powers while Steph seems to be in a decline. Irving is 4 years younger than Steph.
If you swapped them this season the Warriors record, even if he were allowed to play, would be significantly worse, while the Nets would very likely be the title favorites. Kyrie can score like one, but he shouldn’t be compared to franchise first options because they have to carry a significantly heavier burden than Kyrie does.

[Axe]

Who's more one-dimensional between the two of them?

[90sgoat]

Kyrie is the most skilled guard in NBA history with perhaps the exception of Pistol Pete.

[FultzNationRISE]

It makes sense he would eventually. Kyrie spent years learning from LeTeacher. Stephanie spent years getting teabagged by him.

[Manny98]

He outplayed him in back to back finals as well

Just saying...

[90sgoat]

It makes sense he would eventually. Kyrie spent years learning from LeTeacher. Stephanie spent years getting teabagged by him.

Beauty and the Beast.

[SouBeachTalents]

He outplayed him in back to back finals as well

Just saying...
Nah, Curry was better in 2017, though it obv wasn’t the ass kicking it was in 2016.

[Walk on Water]

You still gotta go Steph. Skill wise scoring, the top two PG's of all time. I would go with Kyrie over Steph in that regard. BUT Steph is the GOAT shooter. With crazy handles himself. And even though both are score first PG's, I would give Steph the edge passing the rock. Steph alters a defense MORE than any PG ever in terms of how he scores. Kyrie is a beast though and as I said earlier the most skilled scorer ever at the PG.


If Curry is the better scorer, then he is more skilled. You're just peddling confusing descriptions.

[Axe]

If Curry is the better scorer, then he is more skilled. You're just peddling confusing descriptions.
He's more one-dimensional also. He isn't as clutch in crucial games, can be a liability on defense and relies on draymond green's playmaking for his offensive success on the floor.

[Thenameless]

Both are awesome and capable of swinging a game on their own when they are on. But one of them has been a team cancer multiple times. So....

[j3lademaster]

He's more one-dimensional also. He isn't as clutch in crucial games, can be a liability on defense and relies on draymond green's playmaking for his offensive success on the floor.Shaq is more one-dimensional than say... Karl Anthony Towns. Who's the better center?

And are we forgetting that Curry also has elite handles, midrange, floater, quick hands and offball movement?

[j3lademaster]

If you swapped them this season the Warriors record, even if he were allowed to play, would be significantly worse, while the Nets would very likely be the title favorites. Kyrie can score like one, but he shouldn’t be compared to franchise first options because they have to carry a significantly heavier burden than Kyrie does.Good point.

[Axe]

And are we forgetting that Curry also has elite handles, midrange, floater, quick hands and offball movement?
Sure. But if that's the case, then why can't he lift his own team (which became un-stacked after the 2019 finals when kd left) in the previous two seasons even with the help of their donkey? They were initially the 8th seed last year with 39 wins in the rs but finished at 9th after b2b losses in the play-ins aka losers bracket. Now let me bring up cp3. He carried the 2020 thunder (which had 0.2% of making the playoffs after the departure of wb and pg) to 44 wins and in the 2020 disney bubble, took the rockets to seven games. Last year, he took booker and the suns to the finals also. Consensus-wise, i'm sure he's not even ranked higher than chef dingo himself.

[insight]

Kyrie is the most skilled guard in NBA history with perhaps the exception of Pistol Pete.
Shooting guard maybe, but point guard NO! He doesn't have the court vision or passing skills to be considered one of the most skilled point guards.
Both Curry and Kyrie are shooting guards, I don't know why people are calling them point guards when neither runs the offense.

[ImKobe]

If you swapped them this season the Warriors record, even if he were allowed to play, would be significantly worse, while the Nets would very likely be the title favorites. Kyrie can score like one, but he shouldn’t be compared to franchise first options because they have to carry a significantly heavier burden than Kyrie does.

I don't see how the Warriors would be significantly worse if Irving was available for all the games. Dray is the engine that holds that team together as they are like 2 games above .500 without him on the season, Irving is an elite shooter in his own right so it's not a significant downgrade.

[tontoz]

I don't see how the Warriors would be significantly worse if Irving was available for all the games. Dray is the engine that holds that team together as they are like 2 games above .500 without him on the season, Irving is an elite shooter in his own right so it's not a significant downgrade.



The Nets are 8-11 in the games Kyrie plays.

The Warriors always have a winning record with Curry on court regardless of who is with him. See last season.

The next time Kyrie is in the MVP conversation will be the first time.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20210520-180014.jpg

[SouBeachTalents]

The Nets are 8-11 in the games Kyrie plays.

The Warriors always have a winning record with Curry on court regardless of who is with him. See last season.

The next time Kyrie is in the MVP conversation will be the first time.
It's why the comparison is completely ridiculous. Curry was the engine of a team that won 140 games over 2 years, a championship, and came within 1-2 plays of winning another. And this year he's helped lead the Warriors to the 3rd best record in the league despite Klay & Dray both missing significant amount of games. Oh, and he's also a 2x MVP, including the only unanimous selection in history, an honor Kyrie has never been remotely close to winning.

The pre KD Warriors wouldn't come close to reaching the heights they did with Kyrie in Curry's place. Meanwhile you pair Curry with LeBron, those Celtics teams or KD? Probably taking home several titles.

[bizil]

If Curry is the better scorer, then he is more skilled. You're just peddling confusing descriptions.

Nah! You JUST DON'T KNOW how to comprehend shit! Kyrie is the MOST SKILLED SCORING PG ever because he has the most shit in his bag to get his stuff off. Steph is the BETTER SCORER because he's the GOAT shooter. And for me is TOUGHER to account for scoring the rock. Due to the way he alters a defense. And has put up more impressive scoring numbers throughout the course of his career. The more SKILLED scorer doesn't mean the BETTER scorer in all cases.

[bizil]

For all you posters saying Steph and Kyrie AREN'T point guards, DO YOU REALIZE the PG spot HAS BECOME a score first position widely. Guys like Steph, Kyrie, Russ, Lillard, etc. It's been this way for AWHILE NOW! In the case of Kyrie, he did INDEED play more as a SG this season with the Nets in the limited number of games he's played. Because when Harden was there, he played the PG FLAT OUT! But for MOST of Kyrie's career, he's been a score first PG. When Bron was wit the Cavs, Bron was the POINT FORWARD! While Kyrie was still the PG.

ONLY WAY you consider Steph and Kyrie as primarily SG's IS IF they share the court MOST OF THE TIME with a PG. Throughout the course of their careers, that HASN'T BEEN THE CASE! This was the first time(while Harden was with the Nets) that I would consider Kyrie a SG. Because he was playing with Harden. Who LEGIT played multiple seasons with his primary position being PG. Houston in the past. And even Philly now. Draymond is a POINT POWER FORWARD. Not a PG.

[ImKobe]

The Nets are 8-11 in the games Kyrie plays.

The Warriors always have a winning record with Curry on court regardless of who is with him. See last season.

The next time Kyrie is in the MVP conversation will be the first time.



That's cool, it's not like Harden was throwing any of those games or that KD was out.. right? And Irving can't play @BKN at all either. The Warriors aren't great on the road either. Yes, a lot of the Nets' issues are due to Irving's stance on the vaccine but if we're doing a hypothetical where he's available to play every game, there's no way the Warriors wouldn't still be a good team. Nets had the best offense in league history last year and Irving played 54 out of 72 while Harden & KD missed half the season & they only finished 1 game below the #1 seed.

[bizil]

Neither of them are point guards at this point. They're undersized SGs and tbh I'd rather have Kyrie than Curry if I had to pick either for one game or the last shot. Irving just has a much deeper bag when it comes to putting the ball in the hoop and I've never seen him look overwhelmed in a big game like Steph has.

If I had to pick one for a season I'd go with Steph because he's far more likely to play a full season but Irving is the younger player and has less miles on his body, so he's still at the peak of his powers while Steph seems to be in a decline. Irving is 4 years younger than Steph.


Most of the top PG's in the league are SCORE FIRST PG's! It's been that way for awhile now. When Steph is on the court with the Warriors, he's USUALLY OUT THERE with SG's like Klay and Poole. And SF's like Wiggins. Draymond is like a point power forward. He's NOT A PG! If Steph was a SG FLAT OUT, he would SHARE THE COURT with the PG MOST OF THE TIME! Back in the day, AI was a SG FLAT OUT a lot of seasons. Because he was sharing the court backcourt with a true PG in Eric Snow.

It's just in this era, they are keeping guys like Steph, Kyrie, Lillard, Russ, etc. at the PG. Although when Harden was with the Nets, Kyrie INDEED was the SG. Because Harden has played FLAT OUT multiple seasons as the PG in the past. And he's doing it now in Philly. Because Harden shared the backcourt with true SG's. But for most of Kyrie's career, he's been a score first PG. That position BECAME WIDELY score first awhile ago.

[iamgine]

Brooklyn's record is 8-11 when Kyrie plays.

Kyrie has nice numbers, but his impact is not even close to his numbers.

[ImKobe]

Most of the top PG's in the league are SCORE FIRST PG's! It's been that way for awhile now. When Steph is on the court with the Warriors, he's USUALLY OUT THERE with SG's like Klay and Poole. And SF's like Wiggins. Draymond is like a point power forward. He's NOT A PG! If Steph was a SG FLAT OUT, he would SHARE THE COURT with the PG MOST OF THE TIME! Back in the day, AI was a SG FLAT OUT a lot of seasons. Because he was sharing the court backcourt with a true PG in Eric Snow. It's just in this era, they are keeping guys like Steph, Kyrie, Lillard, Russ, etc. at the PG. Although when Harden was with the Nets, Kyrie INDEED was the SG. Because Harden has played FLAT OUT multiple seasons as the PG in the past. And he's doing it now in Philly. Because Harden shared the backcourt with true SG's. But for most of Kyrie's career, he's been a score first PG. That position BECAME WIDELY score first awhile ago.

I get that part but how many seasons has he been the main facilitator on his team? He's had Bran and other guys running the offense on his team for the vast majority of his career. Steph's had Draymond & Iggy and he does more off the ball than any player in the league.


Brooklyn's record is 8-11 when Kyrie plays.

Kyrie has nice numbers, but his impact is not even close to his numbers.

Warriors are 18 - 15 on the road. Irving's only been available on the road and with KD missing games & Harden throwing the last few of those on his way out.

[tontoz]

That's cool, it's not like Harden was throwing any of those games or that KD was out.. right? And Irving can't play @BKN at all either. The Warriors aren't great on the road either. Yes, a lot of the Nets' issues are due to Irving's stance on the vaccine but if we're doing a hypothetical where he's available to play every game, there's no way the Warriors wouldn't still be a good team. Nets had the best offense in league history last year and Irving played 54 out of 72 while Harden & KD missed half the season & they only finished 1 game below the #1 seed.


It is always someone else's fault but his. Problem is the same thing happens everywhere he goes. The Cavs had the worst record in the league from the time they drafted him until Lebron got there. Then he doesn't want to play with Lebron so he goes to Boston where they are better without him.

Wasn't it just last year that he randomly decided to take two weeks off during the season without telling anyone? WTF

Last year the Warriors were 37-27 with Curry even though Klay missed the whole season. They had a lot of other injuries to starters but as long as Steph played they had a good chance to win.

Kyrie is a streetballer in the NBA. The only time he's had any team success is with Lebron.

If the Nets had Curry instead of Kyrie then Harden would still be there and they would probably be the top seed.

[tpols]

The Nets are 8-11 in the games Kyrie plays.

The Warriors always have a winning record with Curry on court regardless of who is with him. See last season.

The next time Kyrie is in the MVP conversation will be the first time.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20210520-180014.jpg

For most of those games KD was out and they were all road games against tough opponents since kyrie can't play at home in NYC. You have to use context. Kyries volume and efficiency this season is GOAT but he's had to deal with bullshit circumstances.

28/5/5 on 119 ORTG playing only road games with Durant out vs 25/6/5 on 115 ORTG.

There s no way to spin it... Kyrie has outplayed cUrry this year. And I'm a huge chef fan. He simply has been screwed by vaccine mandates.

[tontoz]

KD was out for those games and they were all road games against tough opponents since kyrie can't play at home in NYC. You have to use context. Kyries volume and efficiency this season is GOAT but he's had to deal with bullshit circumstances.

28/5/5 on 119 ORTG playing only tough road games with Durant out vs 25/6/5 on 115 ORTG.

There s no way to spin it... Kyrie has outplayed cUrry this year. He simply has been screwed by vaccine mandates.

Nonsense. When you play only 19 games in the season you don't have to deal with fatigue at all.

GOAT efficiency? LMAO Curry had an ORTG of 119 last season and he played a lot more than 19 games.

Curry's career average TS of 62.4% is better than Kyries this season.

[bizil]

I get that part but how many seasons has he been the main facilitator on his team? He's had Bran and other guys running the offense on his team for the vast majority of his career. Steph's had Draymond and he does more off the ball than any player in the league.



Warriors are 18 - 15 on the road. Irving's only been available on the road and with KD missing games & Harden throwing the last few of those on his way out.

I agree with what you are saying. But Steph and Kyrie have played most of their careers as score first PG's. BUT they aren't the primary facilitator. Because Bron was doing it from a point forward perspective. And Dray from a point power forward perspective. True pass first PG's like CP3, Simmons, etc. are a dying breed. But when Harden went to the Nets, I considered Kyrie an SG. Because he was playing Harden who has played a lot of PG FLAT OUT in his career in general as his primary position. And IN GENERAL is a much better floor general anyway. So I think Kyrie made that transition. BUT when Steph is on the court, he's always out there with Klay, Wiggins, Poole, etc. Guys who are true SG's or swingmen. So in that setup, I consider Steph a score first PG. When Kyrie was with Harden, I considered him a SG.

[tontoz]

I get that part but how many seasons has he been the main facilitator on his team? He's had Bran and other guys running the offense on his team for the vast majority of his career. Steph's had Draymond & Iggy and he does more off the ball than any player in the league.



Warriors are 18 - 15 on the road. Irving's only been available on the road and with KD missing games & Harden throwing the last few of those on his way out.



Exactly. The Warriors have a WINNING record on the road even though their second best player Klay missed most of the season, Green has missed roughly 30 games and Wiseman hasn't played at all.

[ImKobe]

It is always someone else's fault but his. Problem is the same thing happens everywhere he goes. The Cavs had the worst record in the league from the time they drafted him until Lebron got there. Then he doesn't want to play with Lebron so he goes to Boston where they are better without him.

Wasn't it just last year that he randomly decided to take two weeks off during the season without telling anyone? WTF

Last year the Warriors were 37-27 with Curry even though Klay missed the whole season. They had a lot of other injuries to starters but as long as Steph played they had a good chance to win.

Kyrie is a streetballer in the NBA. The only time he's had any team success is with Lebron.

If the Nets had Curry instead of Kyrie then Harden would still be there and they would probably be the top seed.

So Irving was supposed to win with a Cavs team that drafted Dion Waiters and Anthony Bennett with their two lottery picks his first few years in the league? Of course they got better when they added two of the 20 best players in the league.

He gave me the hypothetical that if Kyrie was available for every game on GS that they would be significantly worse with him. That's a hard disagree. Irving's definitely had RS success post-Cleveland in Boston and BKN and he's had injuries in the POs, doesn't mean that he isn't an insanely talented player who's as good as any guard in the league when it comes to putting the ball in the hoop.

[tpols]

Nonsense. When you play only 19 games in the season you don't have to deal with fatigue at all.

GOAT efficiency? LMAO Curry had an ORTG of 119 last season and he played a lot more than 19 games.

Curry's career average TS of 62.4% is better than Kyries this season.

Kyries TS and ORTG are greater than Currys this year. And he has higher volume 28 to 25 ppg. He has more rest but also had much tougher circumstances playing only road games. There s simply no way to spin it. He's been better this year. And H2H in the playoffs Kyrie has outdueled him. He simply has a bigger bag of skills which isn't an insult to Curry since kyrie has GOAT scoring skill while Curry over relies on 3s.

Ultimately, the only thing that has held kyrie back is he's way more injury prone and also isn't a corporate pawn so he isn't propped up as much. I see curry in every other commercial on tv. Kyrie has no deals because he keeps it real and is his own guy. (not owned by corporatism) His skills and ability is right there with curry and we've even seen with our own eyes him shitting on curry H2H. (2016 Finals)

[ShawkFactory]

Kyries TS and ORTG are greater than Currys this year. And he has higher volume 28 to 25 ppg. He has more rest but also had much tougher circumstances playing only road games. There s simply no way to spin it. He's been better this year. And H2H in the playoffs Kyrie has outdueled him. He simply has a bigger bag of skills which isn't an insult to Curry since kyrie has GOAT scoring skill while Curry over relies on 3s.

Ultimately, the only thing that has held kyrie back is he's way more injury prone and also isn't a corporate pawn so he isn't propped up as much. I see curry in every other commercial on tv. Kyrie has no deals because he keeps it real and is his own guy. (not owned by corporatism) His skills and ability is right there with curry and we've even seen with our own eyes him shutting on curry H2H. (2016 Finals)

He's also gotten to rest for days/weeks at a time and doesn't have to deal with leading a team in any way.

[tontoz]

So Irving was supposed to win with a Cavs team that drafted Dion Waiters and Anthony Bennett with their two lottery picks his first few years in the league? Of course they got better when they added two of the 20 best players in the league.

He gave me the hypothetical that if Kyrie was available for every game on GS that they would be significantly worse with him. That's a hard disagree. Irving's definitely had RS success post-Cleveland in Boston and BKN and he's had injuries in the POs, doesn't mean that he isn't an insanely talented player who's as good as any guard in the league when it comes to putting the ball in the hoop.



When did he have success with the Nets? Are you talking about last year when he randomly disappeared for two weeks in the middle of the season without bothering to tell anyone. On the season the team was 12-6 without him. Or was it the previous season when he played 20 games total?

Was Boston better with him or without him?

[tpols]

He's also gotten to rest for days/weeks at a time and doesn't have to deal with leading a team in any way.

Sure he does. Durant got hurt and he was literally carrying all role players. They put a stat out tonight showing kyrie and Durant have barely even played together this year. And harden was hurt / tanking as well. AND he only got to play in road games. That context easily eclipses the rest argument.

[Axe]

For most of those games KD was out and they were all road games against tough opponents since kyrie can't play at home in NYC. You have to use context. Kyries volume and efficiency this season is GOAT but he's had to deal with bullshit circumstances.

28/5/5 on 119 ORTG playing only road games with Durant out vs 25/6/5 on 115 ORTG.

There s no way to spin it... Kyrie has outplayed cUrry this year. And I'm a huge chef fan. He simply has been screwed by vaccine mandates.
I remember all of a sudden that thurston is an avid anti-vaxxer. :oldlol:

[ShawkFactory]

Sure he does. Durant got hurt and he was literally carrying all role players. They put a stat out tonight showing kyrie and Durant have barely even played together this year. And harden was hurt / tanking as well. AND he only got to play in road games. That context easily eclipses the rest argument.

Simply being on the court with role players =/= leading a team. Road games don't matter as much when you didn't play a night or two before and have to travel and into a different routine to get yourself ready. That matters.

Without Dray Steph has been with..Wiggins? Jordan Poole? I don't expect Kyrie to win in that scenario at all. He's never shown the ability to elevate a relatively talentless team into a good one. His game has conditions...sometimes even literally (even if that shouldn't be the case).

Steph is different in that regard.

[tontoz]

Kyries TS and ORTG are greater than Currys this year. And he has higher volume 28 to 25 ppg. He has more rest but also had much tougher circumstances playing only road games. There s simply no way to spin it. He's been better this year. And H2H in the playoffs Kyrie has outdueled him. He simply has a bigger bag of skills which isn't an insult to Curry since kyrie has GOAT scoring skill while Curry over relies on 3s.

Ultimately, the only thing that has held kyrie back is he's way more injury prone and also isn't a corporate pawn so he isn't propped up as much. I see curry in every other commercial on tv. Kyrie has no deals because he keeps it real and is his own guy. (not owned by corporatism) His skills and ability is right there with curry and we've even seen with our own eyes him shitting on curry H2H. (2016 Finals)


Kyrie's TS is 1.2% better than Stephs this year. :bowdown:

Back in November Curry had a TS of 64% and an ORTG of 122. Then his game fell off a bit when fatigue set in. However in the last two months it has been a different story.

Feb 63.7% TS and 121 ORTG
March 68% TS and 123 ORTG

Kyrie hasn't played enough for his stats to be comparable to guys who had played the whole season. Steph has played 44 more games. :roll:

[tpols]

Simply being on the court with role players =/= leading a team. Road games don't matter as much when you didn't play a night or two before and have to travel and into a different routine to get yourself ready. That matters.

Without Dray Steph has been with..Wiggins? Jordan Poole? I don't expect Kyrie to win in that scenario at all. He's never shown the ability to elevate a relatively talentless team into a good one. Steph is different in that regard.

Jordan Poole and Wiggins are way better than anybody on the Nets pre-trade with Durant and Harden out lol. LMA got hurt too. Kyrie was working with a bare bones cast. Wiggins is an All Star player and Poole is a seriously talented offensive player.

[warriorfan]

Sample size

Dingo has more

[Axe]

Kyrie's TS is 1.2% better than Stephs this year. :bowdown:

Back in November Curry had a TS of 64% and an ORTG of 122. Then his game fell off a bit when fatigue set in. However in the last two months it has been a different story.

Feb 63.7% TS and 121 ORTG
March 68% TS and 123 ORTG

Kyrie hasn't played enough for his stats to be comparable to guys who had played the whole season. Steph has played 44 more games. :roll:
Funny how both of you are curry stans but it doesn't stop you two from going against each other. :oldlol:

[tontoz]

Jordan Poole and Wiggins are way better than anybody on the Nets pre-trade with Durant and Harden out lol. LMA got hurt too. Kyrie was working with a bare bones cast. Wiggins is an All Star player and Poole is a seriously talented offensive player.

Put Poole with Kyrie and what would he be? A spectator watching Kyrie's Globetrotter routine.

Wiggins never made an All-Star team until he got paired up with Curry who makes the game easier for everyone.

[NBAGOAT]

you take a 19 game stretch and demar derozan is MVP. let the season finish so kyrie has close to 25 games at least lol

[ShawkFactory]

Jordan Poole and Wiggins are way better than anybody on the Nets pre-trade with Durant and Harden out lol. LMA got hurt too. Kyrie was working with a bare bones cast. Wiggins is an All Star player and Poole is a seriously talented offensive player.

Let's chill on that. You know he is not an all star caliber player.

But I actually just looked up the amount of pre-trade games Kyrie played without Durant or Harden on the floor. It's 3.

4 games total if you include post-trade.

[tpols]

Put Poole with Kyrie and what would he be? A spectator watching Kyrie's Globetrotter routine.

Wiggins never made an All-Star team until he got paired up with Curry who makes the game easier for everyone.

You don't know what you're talking about bro. :oldlol:

I've been watching tons of warriors and nets games. They're my two favorite teams. Kyrie has had to rely on total nobodies like Bruce brown (nice hustle guy tho) and other relative scrub role players and he's had to do it on the road against a lot of good teams.

Kyrie is more of a quick strike scorer than you're trying to let on. He's not a ball dominator type only that needs to lather himself into every shot. He takes plenty of shots with 0, 1, or 2 dribbles just like Curry. Kyrie averages 5 dimes a game and Curry averages 6. :lol

You're simply misinformed and relying on stereotypes and cliches.

[tpols]

Let's chill on that. You know he is not an all star caliber player.

But I actually just looked up the amount of pre-trade games Kyrie played without Durant or Harden on the floor. It's 3.

4 games total if you include post-trade.

Wiggins was a STARTER in the All Star voting. Not even bench.

:biggums:

You guys are clowning out here.

[NBAGOAT]

You don't know what you're talking about bro. :oldlol:

I've been watching tons of warriors and nets games. They're my two favorite teams. Kyrie has had to rely on total nobodies like Bruce brown (nice hustle guy tho) and other relative scrub role players and he's had to do it on the road against a lot of good teams.

Kyrie is more of a quick strike scorer than you're trying to let on. He's not a ball dominator type only that needs to lather himself into every shot. He takes plenty of shots with 0, 1, or 2 dribbles just like Curry. Kyrie averages 5 dimes a game and Curry averages 6. :lol

You're simply misinformed and relying on stereotypes and cliches.

well kyrie's offball game still does not compare to curry's, he needs the ball in his hands. Curry has 4 possessions a game coming off screens to score, kyrie has 0.8.

Edit: and being a starter is what makes it less legit for Wiggins. The coaches would've never voted him in. What I read is one of the ambassadors for the Warriors is a kpop star and he got his fans to vote. Kpop fans are nuts with this stuff.

[ShawkFactory]

You're simply misinformed and relying on stereotypes and cliches.

This is one of the most ironic burn attempts I've ever seen :lol


Wiggins was a STARTER in the All Star voting. Not even bench.

I'm aware.

[tpols]

well kyrie's offball game still does not compare to curry's, he needs the ball in his hands. Curry has 4 possessions a game coming off screens to score, kyrie has 0.8

That's true but Currys on ball game doesn't compare to kyries. The scoring numbers don't lie. Kyrie is better across the board this year. The Nets have moved the ball with Kyrie just fine. A lot of you guys haven't watched any of these nets games and are relying on stereotypes.

[tontoz]

You don't know what you're talking about bro. :oldlol:

I've been watching tons of warriors and nets games. They're my two favorite teams. Kyrie has had to rely on total nobodies like Bruce brown (nice hustle guy tho) and other relative scrub role players and he's had to do it on the road against a lot of good teams.

Kyrie is more of a quick strike scorer than you're trying to let on. He's not a ball dominator type only that needs to lather himself into every shot. He takes plenty of shots with 0, 1, or 2 dribbles just like Curry. Kyrie averages 5 dimes a game and Curry averages 6. :lol

You're simply misinformed and relying on stereotypes and cliches.


Curry doesn't hold the ball line Kyrie. He is running around all the time off the ball while other guys handle it. Kyrie is constantly dribbling around looking for his own shot. Moving without the ball isn't his thing.

Kyrie does his Uncle Drew routine regardless of who is on the court with him, Bruce Brown or Tatum or Lebron.

[tontoz]

That's true but Currys on ball game doesn't compare to kyries. The scoring numbers don't lie. Kyrie is better across the board this year. The Nets have moved the ball with Kyrie just fine. A lot of you guys haven't watched any of these nets games and are relying on stereotypes.

You can't say he's better when he has played less than a third of the games Curry's played.:facepalm

[NBAGOAT]

That's true but Currys on ball game doesn't compare to kyries. The scoring numbers don't lie. Kyrie is better across the board this year. The Nets have moved the ball with Kyrie just fine. A lot of you guys haven't watched any of these nets games and are relying on stereotypes.

I wouldnt be so sure about that. steph had better numbers til this year where they're still comparable. I assume you agree pnr is where kyrie does a large portion of his scoring.

This year Kyrie has 7.2 possessions with a 0.99ppp(83.5 percentile). Curry has 6.6 possessions with a 1.02ppp(87.4 percentile). Steph's on ball game is fantastic, there's a reason curry/dray is always one of the best pnr duos even though dray cant score. Where kyrie has a lot more volume on steph is in isolation but GS doesnt play that way and it's usually not optimal to play too much isolation offense. still based on his efficiency, steph would be one of the better isolation scorers if he had more possessions. Kyrie's just never shown that ability to play a lot offball, steph has shown he can play onball very well.

[iamgine]

Kyrie is one of those low impact to numbers ratio guy. He has nice numbers but his impact is not as high. Although, I think Kyrie's still a top 15-ish player.

To me, Kyrie is the 7th best PG this season. Below Doncic, Ja, Curry, CP, Murray and Trae. Trae is another one of those low impact to numbers ratio guys.

[ImKobe]

When did he have success with the Nets? Are you talking about last year when he randomly disappeared for two weeks in the middle of the season without bothering to tell anyone. On the season the team was 12-6 without him. Or was it the previous season when he played 20 games total?

Was Boston better with him or without him?

I already made the point that Irving played 54 out of 72 games while Harden & KD only played half of the games. So Irving last year led the Nets in scoring (same ppg as KD but he played way more games) and they were 1 game out of the #1 seed with 2 of their big 3 missing half the season. Irving had a kid during the season IIRC, which is why he took some time off, but that's not the argument here & I'm not sure why some people here have such a hard-on when it comes to hating on Kyrie. We're not talking about his off-court stuff, just his skill as a player.

[tontoz]

I already made the point that Irving played 54 out of 72 games while Harden & KD only played half of the games. So Irving last year led the Nets in scoring (same ppg as KD but he played way more games) and they were 1 game out of the #1 seed with 2 of their big 3 missing half the season. Irving had a kid during the season IIRC, which is why he took some time off, but that's not the argument here & I'm not sure why some people here have such a hard-on when it comes to hating on Kyrie. We're not talking about his off-court stuff, just his skill as a player.


They were 12-6 without him. I don't think the Nets would consider a 2nd round loss as success.

If he had a kid during the season why didnt he just say so? Why would he go AWOL without telling the team? Drama queen. Plenty of other guys have kids during the season. I don't see them disappearing for two weeks without calling the team.

[ImKobe]

They were 12-6 without him. I don't think the Nets would consider a 2nd round loss as success.

If he had a kid during the season why didnt he just say so? Why would he go AWOL without telling the team? Drama queen. Plenty of other guys have kids during the season. I don't see them disappearing for two weeks without calling the team.

And they were 36 - 18 with him & 23 - 12 with Durant. He clearly had more than enough impact on them winning games, which is why they went up from being up 2 - 1 to losing 3 out of 4 against Milwaukee without him. I'm not sure how the ankle injury was his fault when Giannis steps under his landing spot in the paint to cause that injury.

[GimmeThat]

it's not that Kyrie's per 100 numbers improved, it's just Curry's number actually did drop this season.

[tontoz]

And they were 36 - 18 with him & 23 - 12 with Durant. He clearly had more than enough impact on them winning games, which is why they went up from being up 2 - 1 to losing 3 out of 4 against Milwaukee without him. I'm not sure how the ankle injury was his fault when Giannis steps under his landing spot in the paint to cause that injury.


Nothing is ever his fault, right? Going AWOL in the middle of the season wasn't his fault. Missing most of this season wasn't his fault. Harden wanting out wasn't his fault.

Nothing is ever the fault of the flat earther.

[ImKobe]

Nothing is ever his fault, right? Going AWOL in the middle of the season wasn't his fault. Missing most of this season wasn't his fault. Harden wanting out wasn't his fault.

Nothing is ever the fault of the flat earther.

Was last year his fault? Did he injure himself on purpose?

Yeah, it's his fault they have a poor RS record but there are plenty of athletes (Aaron Rodgers) who are equally as controversial but don't get the same coverage. Either way, Irving's already beat Steph H2H in the Finals and is still as good as ever and still has a decent championship window in Brooklyn and is 4 years younger so that's why I'm picking him over a mid-30s Steph.

[1987_Lakers]

Nothing is ever his fault, right? Going AWOL in the middle of the season wasn't his fault. Missing most of this season wasn't his fault. Harden wanting out wasn't his fault.

Nothing is ever the fault of the flat earther.

This! As talented as Kyrie is, he does seem kinda like a cancer. Wouldn't trust him AT ALL as my #1 option.

[1987_Lakers]

Was last year his fault? Did he injure himself on purpose?

Yeah, it's his fault they have a poor RS record but there are plenty of athletes (Aaron Rodgers) who are equally as controversial but don't get the same coverage. Either way, Irving's already beat Steph H2H in the Finals and is still as good as ever and still has a decent championship window in Brooklyn and is 4 years younger so that's why I'm picking him over a mid-30s Steph.

We saw what Kyrie is capable as a #1 option. It wasn't pretty. He failed in Boston and the Nets have a losing record when Kyrie is on the floor and KD is gone.

To compare what Kyrie and Curry have done as 1st options is an absolute joke. Both Irving and AD are underwhelming as 1st options.

[tontoz]

Was last year his fault? Did he injure himself on purpose?

Yeah, it's his fault they have a poor RS record but there are plenty of athletes (Aaron Rodgers) who are equally as controversial but don't get the same coverage. Either way, Irving's already beat Steph H2H in the Finals and is still as good as ever and still has a decent championship window in Brooklyn and is 4 years younger so that's why I'm picking him over a mid-30s Steph.

Last year going AWOL was certainly his fault. It is always something with him.

The only team success he's had is with Lebron. Now he is in year 3 with KD and once again it is a disappointment. Steph won a title beating KD and KD decided it is better to join him rather than play against him.

Steph was an MVP finalist just last year, something Kyrie never has been and never will be.

[ImKobe]

We saw what Kyrie is capable as a #1 option. It wasn't pretty. He failed in Boston and the Nets have a losing record when Kyrie is on the floor and KD is gone.

To compare what Kyrie and Curry have done as 1st options is an absolute joke. Both Irving and AD are underwhelming as 1st options.

AD underwhelming? He led the Lakers to the #1 seed and the Finals as a #1 option. Did you forget that part?

And Irving had RS success in Boston and Brooklyn as a #1 option (he really was a #1 option a lot last season and averaged same ppg as KD but played a lot more). Injuries are unfortunate but they don't mean that he's incapable of being a #1 option on a contending team. The Celtics were a #2 seed and won more games than the Cavs with Irving as the #1 option in 2018.

Using the road record (which is where Irving has only been allowed to play in) to say that Irving doesn't have impact is just being dishonest. You're a troll anyway so I'm not sure why I'm even responding to you. I need to do a better job at not responding to a Lebron shill who's only interest is to downplay the impact of his former/current teammates.

[ImKobe]

Last year going AWOL was certainly his fault. It is always something with him.

The only team success he's had is with Lebron. Now he is in year 3 with KD and once again it is a disappointment. Steph won a title beating KD and KD decided it is better to join him rather than play against him.

Steph was an MVP finalist just last year, something Kyrie never has been and never will be.

Him taking a leave during the RS last year had nothing to do with their Playoffs result. He played by far the most games out of the big 3 last year and was really ****ing good with a 50/40/90 season. Harden got injured in the POs too.

Are you just another Lebron defender who's only interested in shitting on Kyrie because none of Lebron's former teammates are allowed to be good players elsewhere, and they can only have success with Lebron because Lebron is the only player in NBA history who could have won with those guys?

"The only team success he's had is with Lebron". Yeah, apart from being a #2 seed with the Celtics in 2018 (Cavs were #4) or the #2 seed with the Nets despite 2 of their Big 3 missing half of the season in 2021..

Steph won 2 of his 3 rings with Durant and has zero FMVPs himself and is now in his mid-30s and just got injured, I don't think it's far-fetched to say that I'd take the player who's outplayed Curry H2H in the Finals and who's 4 years younger.

[GimmeThat]

I take Irving over Lillard as well, more experience and younger.

[1987_Lakers]

AD underwhelming? He led the Lakers to the #1 seed and the Finals as a #1 option. Did you forget that part?

This is why nobody takes you serious. As great of a player AD was in 2020 almost no sane person will say he was better than LeBron. He finished 2nd in the MVP voting, his own coach said he was our best player. He won FMVP unanimously. Etc etc.

And deep down you know this, that is the reason why you disappeared from this forum after "your team" won a title.

There is also evidence Boston was a better team without Kyrie. Why did the Celtics have a better record without Kyrie and made it further into the playoffs?

He FAILED as a #1 option.

[Axe]

Him taking a leave during the RS last year had nothing to do with their Playoffs result. He played by far the most games out of the big 3 last year and was really ****ing good with a 50/40/90 season. Harden got injured in the POs too.

Are you just another Lebron defender who's only interested in shitting on Kyrie because none of Lebron's former teammates are allowed to be good players elsewhere, and they can only have success with Lebron because Lebron is the only player in NBA history who could have won with those guys?

"The only team success he's had is with Lebron". Yeah, apart from being a #2 seed with the Celtics in 2018 (Cavs were #4) or the #2 seed with the Nets despite 2 of their Big 3 missing half of the season in 2021..

Steph won 2 of his 3 rings with Durant and has zero FMVPs himself and is now in his mid-30s and just got injured, I don't think it's far-fetched to say that I'd take the player who's outplayed Curry H2H in the Finals and who's 4 years younger.
Uncle tontoz a lebron defender? Wtf lmao.

[1987_Lakers]

"Had the Celtics as a #2 seed in 2018"

Celtics made the ECF without Kyrie that year. Is that the best you got?:oldlol:

[tontoz]

Him taking a leave during the RS last year had nothing to do with their Playoffs result. He played by far the most games out of the big 3 last year and was really ****ing good with a 50/40/90 season. Harden got injured in the POs too.

Are you just another Lebron defender who's only interested in shitting on Kyrie because none of Lebron's former teammates are allowed to be good players elsewhere, and they can only have success with Lebron because Lebron is the only player in NBA history who could have won with those guys?

"The only team success he's had is with Lebron". Yeah, apart from being a #2 seed with the Celtics in 2018 (Cavs were #4) or the #2 seed with the Nets despite 2 of their Big 3 missing half of the season in 2021..

Steph won 2 of his 3 rings with Durant and has zero FMVPs himself and is now in his mid-30s and just got injured, I don't think it's far-fetched to say that I'd take the player who's outplayed Curry H2H in the Finals and who's 4 years younger.


Lebron defender? I have been rooting against him for years because of the collusion nonsense.

Steph should have won the FMVP for their first title. Iggy winning was a joke. The Warriors were a dynasty because of Steph. Without Steph there is no dynasty.

The Cavs became successful because of Lebron, not Kyrie. Without Lebron they would have stayed in the toilet.

Boston got to the ECF with Kyrie on the sidelines for the entire playoffs. The following year when he played they got backdoor swept in the 2nd round.

[ImKobe]

This is why nobody takes you serious. As great of a player AD was in 2020 almost no sane person will say he was better than LeBron. He finished 2nd in the MVP voting, his own coach said he was our best player. He won FMVP unanimously. Etc etc.

And deep down you know this, that is the reason why you disappeared from this forum after "your team" won a title.

There is also evidence Boston was a better team without Kyrie. Why did the Celtics have a better record without Kyrie and made it further into the playoffs?

He FAILED as a #1 option.

Being a #1 option doesn't necessarily mean that AD was the better player overall, but he was the #1 option all season, until the Heat lost 2 of their best players & Bran gunned for the FMVP.

Davis did more than just score, he was the best defensive player on the Lakers while Bran coasted on that end and he led them in everything but assists all season and averaged 29 a game to Bran's 27 through the first 3 rounds and he took more shots if you account for the extra FT attempts he had (.4 less FGA, 2.6 more FTA through the first 3 rounds, 4 more ppg & 23 more FTA than Bran in the WCF).

Boston didn't have a better record without Irving in 2018, it was around the same percentage-wise but he was their best player in the RS. Celtics had a rather weak run to the ECF and clearly were missing him on the offensive end in the POs as a closer.

But I'm done replying to you here, you can't even admit that Davis was the #1 option for the majority of that title run, which he was. You should go back to posting on your other alts instead of pretending to be a Lakers' fan.

[1987_Lakers]

Uncle tontoz a lebron defender? Wtf lmao.

It's well known ImKobe gets upset and starts calling people "trolls" "Bron Stans" when an argument doesn't go his way.

[ImKobe]

Lebron defender? I have been rooting against him for years because of the collusion nonsense.

Steph should have won the FMVP for their first title. Iggy winning was a joke. The Warriors were a dynasty because of Steph. Without Steph there is no dynasty.

The Cavs became successful because of Lebron, not Kyrie. Without Lebron they would have stayed in the toilet.

Boston got to the ECF with Kyrie on the sidelines for the entire playoffs. The following year when he played they got backdoor swept in the 2nd round.


And they got to the ECF in 2018 without facing any team as good as the '19 Bucks. And please, don't make the argument that the '18 Bucks were anywhere near as good under Kidd when they were below-average defense & a 7th seed.

The Bran argument is just stupid here. Any team that adds a superstar in their prime in FA should be better. Cavs did jack shit to improve the roster around Irving until they signed Bran and traded Wiggins for Love. Bran missed the POs his first few years in the league as well, it takes time to build a contender. I can't recall a single player in NBA history who gets drafted to a horrible rebuilding team as the #1 pick and turns it all around by himself -- all the legends that did have huge turnarounds usually had other pieces added to their rosters that resulted in them having success early on.

Yeah I've defended Steph's 2015 run before so that's not an issue, but Steph does have 2 of his 3 rings with KD being the best player on those teams in the POs.

The point still stands, Irving is much younger so he should be better than a past-prime Curry.

[1987_Lakers]

Being a #1 option doesn't necessarily mean that AD was the better player overall, but he was the #1 option all season, until the Heat lost 2 of their best players & Bran gunned for the FMVP.

Davis did more than just score, he was the best defensive player on the Lakers while Bran coasted on that end and he led them in everything but assists all season and averaged 29 a game to Bran's 27 through the first 3 rounds and he took more shots if you account for the extra FT attempts he had (.4 less FGA, 2.6 more FTA through the first 3 rounds, 4 more ppg & 23 more FTA than Bran in the WCF).

Boston didn't have a better record without Irving in 2018, it was around the same percentage-wise but he was their best player in the RS. Celtics had a rather weak run to the ECF and clearly were missing him on the offensive end in the POs as a closer.

But I'm done replying to you here, you can't even admit that Davis was the #1 option for the majority of that title run, which he was. You should go back to posting on your other alts instead of pretending to be a Lakers' fan.

This is how I know you didn't watch the Lakers play that season. "LeBron coasted on defense". In 2020 he was playing extremely good defense and was in the convo to make an All-Defensive team. He was by far our best offensive player and even Skip Bayless the ultimate LeBron hater said he should have won MVP that year.

Regardless, AD has always been one of those guys who's numbers aren't as good as the player himself. His downfall is that he isn't a playmaker, he can't create for others and his offensive game is usually perimeter based, which means he doesn't gather the defensive attention guys like Shaq & Hakeem did on the inside which freed up his teammates. There is a reason why AD's time with the Pelicans wasn't successful and now people have labeled him soft after 2020.

But back to Kyrie... Celtics had a better record without him in 2019 and you say it was the same percentage wise without him in 2018. LOL.

Is that really a guy you would want as your first option? Seems to me like his impact is limited.

[GimmeThat]

There is also evidence Boston was a better team without Kyrie. Why did the Celtics have a better record without Kyrie and made it further into the playoffs?



how do you knowingly trade for someone, then turn that someone into a cancer. if what the Boston FO knew were only things that didn't matter, then how is that even a franchise worth playing for. how is it any less cancerous to be out there playing for no meaning even when it results in wins

[ImKobe]

This is how I know you didn't watch the Lakers play that season. "LeBron coasted on defense". In 2020 he was playing extremely good defense and was in the convo to make an All-Defensive team. He was by far our best offensive player and even Skip Bayless the ultimate LeBron hater said he should have won MVP that year.

Regardless, AD has always been one of those guys who's numbers aren't as good as the player himself. His downfall is that he isn't a playmaker, he can't create for others and his offensive game is usually perimeter based, which means he doesn't gather the defensive attention guys like Shaq & Hakeem did on the inside which freed up his teammates. There is a reason why AD's time with the Pelicans wasn't successful and now people have labeled him soft after 2020.

But back to Kyrie... Celtics had a better record without him in 2019 and you say it was the same percentage wise without him in 2018. LOL.

Is that really a guy you would want as your first option? Seems to me like his impact is limited.

So your tactic is to make more asinine arguments in order to get more responses out of me? The Celtics did not have a better record without Kyrie in the 2017-18 season - they played at a 56-win pace with him and 52-win pace without & over half of their wins (8 of the 14) without him came against lottery teams. Goodbye.

[tontoz]

And they got to the ECF in 2018 without facing any team as good as the '19 Bucks. And please, don't make the argument that the '18 Bucks were anywhere near as good under Kidd when they were below-average defense & a 7th seed.

The Bran argument is just stupid here. Any team that adds a superstar in their prime in FA should be better. Cavs did jack shit to improve the roster around Irving until they signed Bran and traded Wiggins for Love. Bran missed the POs his first few years in the league as well, it takes time to build a contender. I can't recall a single player in NBA history who gets drafted to a horrible rebuilding team as the #1 pick and turns it all around by himself -- all the legends that did have huge turnarounds usually had other pieces added to their rosters that resulted in them having success early on.

Yeah I've defended Steph's 2015 run before so that's not an issue, but Steph does have 2 of his 3 rings with KD being the best player on those teams in the POs.

The point still stands, Irving is much younger so he should be better than a past-prime Curry.



Kyrie never had a season even close to what Steph did just last season and he did it with a bunch of role players having to carry the load offensively. Steph won a scoring title with a TS of 65%+ something only one other player in NBA history has done. Steph has done it twice now.

[1987_Lakers]

So your tactic is to make more asinine arguments in order to get more responses out of me? The Celtics did not have a better record without Kyrie in the 2017-18 season - they played at a 56-win pace with him and 52-win pace without & over half of their wins (8 of the 14) without him came against lottery teams. Goodbye.

How is using what the Celtics did without Kyrie an asinine argument? They made the ECF without him in 2018 AND were 12-3 without him and only 37-30 with him in 2019.

That right there should tell you his impact was limited.

[ImKobe]

Kyrie never had a season even close to what Steph did just last season and he did it with a bunch of role players having to carry the load offensively. Steph won a scoring title with a TS of 65%+ something only one other player in NBA history has done. Steph has done it twice now.

Steph still has the edge on volume 3s and is a better playmaker & a better off-ball player, but Irving has better handles, better mid-range & is a better finisher around the rim and is also a 40+% 3PT shooter at over 7 attempts, so there really isn't a gap between the two right now.

[1987_Lakers]

Steph still has the edge on volume 3s and is a better playmaker & a better off-ball player, but Irving has better handles, better mid-range & is a better finisher around the rim and is also a 40+% 3PT shooter at over 7 attempts, so there really isn't a gap between the two right now.

And still the Celtics had more success without him. Sad.

[tontoz]

Steph still has the edge on volume 3s and is a better playmaker & a better off-ball player, but Irving has better handles, better mid-range & is a better finisher around the rim and is also a 40+% 3PT shooter at over 7 attempts, so there really isn't a gap between the two right now.

LOL get back to me when he does it for an entire season. He's only played 19 games ffs. Plenty of guys can put up big numbers in limited games.



https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20210521-092012.jpg

[insight]

For all you posters saying Steph and Kyrie AREN'T point guards, DO YOU REALIZE the PG spot HAS BECOME a score first position widely. Guys like Steph, Kyrie, Russ, Lillard, etc. It's been this way for AWHILE NOW! In the case of Kyrie, he did INDEED play more as a SG this season with the Nets in the limited number of games he's played. Because when Harden was there, he played the PG FLAT OUT! But for MOST of Kyrie's career, he's been a score first PG. When Bron was wit the Cavs, Bron was the POINT FORWARD! While Kyrie was still the PG.

ONLY WAY you consider Steph and Kyrie as primarily SG's IS IF they share the court MOST OF THE TIME with a PG. Throughout the course of their careers, that HASN'T BEEN THE CASE! This was the first time(while Harden was with the Nets) that I would consider Kyrie a SG. Because he was playing with Harden. Who LEGIT played multiple seasons with his primary position being PG. Houston in the past. And even Philly now. Draymond is a POINT POWER FORWARD. Not a PG.

Point Guards run the offense and control the tempo of the game. Point Guards like Trae Young, Garland, Haliburton, Ball and Vanfleet are still prevalent in this league. People just focus on the scoring aspect and undervalue the other skills of a true point guard. Kyrie has the best handles, footwork and body control of any guard but he doesn't have the court vision and passing ability of the top point guards.
Steph is a better passer but still struggles created shots for others and is much better off ball.
Players like Lebron, Joker and Luka and Draymond fill some of a true point guards roles of creating shots for others but just like Steph and Kyrie it doesn't those player point guards either.

[ImKobe]

How is using what the Celtics did without Kyrie an asinine argument? They made the ECF without him in 2018 without him AND were 12-3 without him and only 37-30 with him in 2019.

That right there should tell you his impact was limited.

Has nothing to do with Irving's success in 2018.

And go look at their games without Irving in 2019 and tell me how many good teams they beat out of those 15.

The answer is 1. The one win against Philly. They played two good teams (Utah, Philly) and went 1 - 1 against them. The rest of the opponents won 42 games or less. They went 3 - 3 against Playoff teams without Kyrie.

[ImKobe]

LOL get back to me when he does it for an entire season. He's only played 19 games ffs. Plenty of guys can put up big numbers in limited games.




Kyrie played on the same level last year while Curry's in a decline. It's cool that Steph was in the MVP race but his team missed the Playoffs. If Irving did that you'd shit on him for not being an impact player.

[Axe]

Nothing against the guy but if kyrie is really that great, then he would have kept on playing no matter the circumstances.

[3ba11]

Nothing against the guy but if kyrie is really that great, then he would have kept on playing no matter the circumstances.


Injury is the only thing that stopped Kyrie from having 3-4 chips right now - 15', 16', 21' and an outside chance at 18'

History shows that he's the difference-maker.. due to a goat skill level

[tontoz]

Kyrie played on the same level last year while Curry's in a decline. It's cool that Steph was in the MVP race but his team missed the Playoffs. If Irving did that you'd shit on him for not being an impact player.

Last year he played only 54 games. He would play a few games, take a few off, then play a few, take a few off. He didn't play 10 straight games all year.

He doesn't have to worry about fatigue. he doesn't play enough.

[1987_Lakers]

Has nothing to do with Irving's success in 2018.

And go look at their games without Irving in 2019 and tell me how many good teams they beat out of those 15.

The answer is 1. The one win against Philly. They played two good teams (Utah, Philly) and went 1 - 1 against them. The rest of the opponents won 42 games or less. They went 3 - 3 against Playoff teams without Kyrie.

So all of a sudden competition matters? Just a few days ago I saw you slurping Kyrie for dropping 60 points on the Magic but were nowhere to be found when LeBron dropped 56 on an actual good team a few days ago.

Regardless of who they beat in 2019 without Kyrie, they were only 37-30 with him that year. The previous year, they made the ECF without him, are you now gonna say that all the teams they beat in the playoffs that year were lottery teams?

[GimmeThat]

Nothing against the guy but if kyrie is really that great, then he would have kept on playing no matter the circumstances.

people would have needed him to play for his greatness, which has nothing to do with his wants and desires.

I have erectile dysfunction, it's just the dysfunction occurs when it doesn't matter.

[3ba11]

So all of a sudden competition matters? Just a few days ago I saw you slurping Kyrie for dropping 60 points on the Magic but were nowhere to be found when LeBron dropped 56 on an actual good team a few days ago.

Regardless of who they beat in 2019 without Kyrie, they were only 37-30 with him that year. The previous year, they made the ECF without him, are you now gonna say that all the teams they beat in the playoffs that year were lottery teams?


Everyone knows that Hayward's return in 2019 cratered Tatum/Brown across the board (PER, BPM, WS/48, VORP)

They recovered to still become stars in 2020 but they were clearly stifled by Hayward's return in 19'.

It sucks because Ange's desire to play his 100 million dollar man ruined Kyrie's dynasty with Tatum/Brown because the current Celtics only need a boost offensively - they're defense is great and #1 just like 2018 with Kyrie

Again, injury is the only thing that stopped Kyrie from having 3-4 chips right now - 15', 16', 21' and an outside chance at 18'... History shows that he's the difference-maker.. due to a goat skill level

[1987_Lakers]

How would you know? You said you haven't watched a basketball game in over a decade.

And who the fvxk is Ange?

[ImKobe]

Last year he played only 54 games. He would play a few games, take a few off, then play a few, take a few off. He didn't play 10 straight games all year.

He doesn't have to worry about fatigue. he doesn't play enough.

54 out of 72 is not bad. It was a shortened season so most stars missed a bunch of games. Curry had a whole year off before last season as well.

Their RS numbers since 2019 are really close and Curry's much older so that's why Kyrie should pass Steph as the best scoring guard in the league. That's my opinion. We don't need to keep repeating ourselves here.

[ImKobe]

So all of a sudden competition matters? Just a few days ago I saw you slurping Kyrie for dropping 60 points on the Magic but were nowhere to be found when LeBron dropped 56 on an actual good team a few days ago.

Regardless of who they beat in 2019 without Kyrie, they were only 37-30 with him that year. The previous year, they made the ECF without him, are you now gonna say that all the teams they beat in the playoffs that year were lottery teams?

You're saying that if Kyrie's on that team, they don't beat a 7th seed Bucks team and the Sixers with him taking the shots instead of Rozier, who averaged 16.5 points in his place as a starter in the POs? Is that what we're arguing here?

If anything, the argument is that they make the Finals in '18 with Kyrie as he provides them the scoring that they sorely lacked in the Cavs' series.

[tontoz]

How would you know? You said you haven't watched a basketball game in over a decade.

And who the fvxk is Ange?


Ainge lol.

3ball's responses are so predictable, acting like Kyrie is elite so he can take credit away from Lebron.

[1987_Lakers]

You're saying that if Kyrie's on that team, they don't beat a 7th seed Bucks team and the Sixers with him taking the shots instead of Rozier, who averaged 16.5 points in his place as a starter in the POs? Is that what we're arguing here?

If anything, the argument is that they make the Finals in '18 with Kyrie as he provides them the scoring that they sorely lacked in the Cavs' series.

They beat a Sixers team with Embiid & Simmons without him, that right there should show you how good of a team they were without him. How can you be so sure they beat the Sixers with him? A big reason why they beat the Sixers is because of their defense and they were better on that end without Kyrie, They were only 37-30 with Kyrie the next season. For all I know he would have messed up their chemistry.

I specifically remember Bron stans turning on Kyrie during his tenure with the Celtics, he was that underwhelming for them. Your attempt of trying to re-write history isn't working.

[ImKobe]

They beat a Sixers team with Embiid & Simmons without him, that right there should show you how good of a team they were without him. How can you be so sure they beat the Sixers with him? A big reason why they beat the Sixers is because of their defense and they were better on that end without Kyrie, They were only 37-30 with Kyrie the next season. For all I know he would have messed up their chemistry.

I specifically remember Bron stans turning on Kyrie during his tenure with the Celtics, he was that underwhelming for them. Your attempt of trying to re-write history isn't working.

So Rozier was the reason they were so good defensively? They beat the Sixers in 5 games because Embiid wore down at the end of the season & Brad Stevens outcoached the **** out of Brett Brown. Ben Simmons is also ridiculed for how bad he is in crunch time so that doesn't change if Irving is there either. Even if Irving makes their defense slightly worse, they were far better with him on the court on offense all season. They were also 3 - 0 against Philly (all double-digit wins, 2 on the road) with Kyrie that season. In fact, they were much better on defense without Rozier in the 2018 Playoffs.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Irving wasn't a negative he just made no difference. Unquestionably better than Rozier but a player's effect on a team is about more than just his value. Ironically enough of the three pgs the Celtics could have gone into the next season with they would have been best off with Rozier.

[1987_Lakers]

So Rozier was the reason they were so good defensively? They beat the Sixers in 5 games because Embiid wore down at the end of the season & Brad Stevens outcoached the **** out of Brett Brown. Ben Simmons is also ridiculed for how bad he is in crunch time so that doesn't change if Irving is there either. Even if Irving makes their defense slightly worse, they were far better with him on the court on offense all season. They were also 3 - 0 against Philly (all double-digit wins, 2 on the road) with Kyrie that season. In fact, they were much better on defense without Rozier in the 2018 Playoffs.

Nice job leaving out the fact that Embiid missed one of those regular season games they won.

And Simmons was not ridiculed for how bad he was down the stretch in 2018, that came in 2021. Again, your attempt to re-write history isn't working.

The fact is they beat Embiid & Simmons WITHOUT Kyrie and did nothing worth noting when Kyrie was in the lineup and healthy. That right there should end all the non sense of how great of a #1 option Kyrie is. He didn't do anything worth noting in Boston, and that is an actual fact.

[1987_Lakers]

Irving wasn't a negative he just made no difference. Unquestionably better than Rozier but a player's effect on a team is about more than just his value. Ironically enough of the three pgs the Celtics could have gone into the next season with they would have been best off with Rozier.

Coming from a real Celtics fan who actually watched the games.

:cheers:

[ImKobe]

Nice job leaving out the fact that Embiid missed one of those regular season games they won.

And Simmons was not ridiculed for how bad he was down the stretch in 2018, that came in 2021. Again, your attempt to re-write history isn't working.

The fact is they beat Embiid & Simmons WITHOUT Kyrie and did nothing worth noting when Kyrie was in the lineup and healthy. That right there should end all the non sense of how great of a #1 option Kyrie is. He didn't do anything worth noting in Boston, and that is an actual fact.

So Simmons was clutch back in 2018? Did he have a jump shot? Was he a reliable FT shooter? Was Embiid durable or anywhere near as good as he is now in 2018?

God, your arguments are so ****ing stupid. Are you even trying? A deep team like the Celtics couldn't have used an elite PG with championship experience in the Playoffs over Terry Rozier - a back-up PG who averaged 11 points a game on sub-40% shooting in the RS.

This is how ****ing delusional these Bran stans are.

"oh but look at what Irving did against the 2019 Bucks, that's totally the same as playing the '18 Bucks & '18 Sixers! Kyrie is not a winner!"

[tontoz]

This thread hasn't aged well.

:roll:

[Full Court]

You still gotta go Steph. Skill wise scoring, the top two PG's of all time. I would go with Kyrie over Steph in that regard. BUT Steph is the GOAT shooter. With crazy handles himself. And even though both are score first PG's, I would give Steph the edge passing the rock. Steph alters a defense MORE than any PG ever in terms of how he scores. Kyrie is a beast though and as I said earlier the most skilled scorer ever at the PG.

I agree with this 100%.