Which star player is/was ACTUALLY a BAD defender?

[beasted]

Everyone can't be average or underrated. It's impossible. Can we admit at least to a couple guys, please?

I regularly see fans defending the defense of players who have a bad reputation defensively since the beginning of time. It happens every time to star players. We've all had these conversations, I'm certain.

One guy says "Curry is a poor defender" and some clown pops up like "Well, actually..."

I just want to know who people can mostly all agree is just bad.

Dirk, Nash, Harden, Carmelo, Stoudemire? Curry? Luka? Jokic?

I think since the beginning of time the only player anyone can all agree on is Trae Young.

[Full Court]

Trae Young is most definitely a poor defender. Westbrook seems pretty bad too, considering how quick he is.

[Spurs m8]

LeRoomba comes to mind

https://media1.tenor.com/images/c10f1d1528d2d3aa05cf63ef7dc99748/tenor.gif

Aka LePush

[Spurs m8]

Literally waited for him to turn back around, so he could drain it in his face.

The disrespect :roll:

[Kawhi_Why_Not]

Steve Nash, Trae Young. I would say mostly small guys like that. Carmello was pretty bad for his size as well. Jokic was pretty bad before this season as he has gotten better. Dirk was underrated when he was young i think.

[NBAGOAT]

Dame is bad.

[3ba11]

.

Pippen couldn't handle quick wings with good handle like Hill or Kobe:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-10-2015/NZrhCv.gif



Here's Kobe shaking his head after breaking Pippen BADLY in 99' - Pippen is joke to him:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-10-2015/DtKoPr.gif..



But just a few months earlier, Jordan had no problem stuffing Kobe's crossover in 98' ASG:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-10-2015/EStPHq.gif



Here's another one - Pippen can't handle Grant off-the-dribble - he can't stay in front:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-09-2015/5FXjSn.gif



But MJ can - he stays in front of Grant every step of the way and forces wild shot:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-10-2015/n1LWjI.gif



Video about Chris Mullin destroying Pippen:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z5NMThAlG-g


Video about Detlef Schrempf destroying Pippen:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z5NMThAlG-g


Video about 18-year old Dirk dropping 52 on Pippen

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E1TxcLux7do&t=0m06s


Video about Barkley destroying Pippen:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NpkSSCTvrYU&t=81s&t=02m15s


Video about Grant Hill destroying Pippen

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pzH3-Ak7Acc


Video showing X-man destroying Pippen

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1992-nba-eastern-conference-semifinals-knicks-vs-bulls.html


Video showing Mashburn destroying Pippen

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bRR3Jx8RvoI




^^^^^ that's the tip of the iceberg


The reason MJ was so much better defending quick ballhandlers like Hill, Kobe or Westbrook is because he was a 2-guard, and was the frequently the primary, all-game defender on quick point guards.

For example, MJ was matched up against Gary Payton from the TIP-OFF in Game 3 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meL62CUehuw&t=0m48s) and Game 5 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFiqeJcgXfg) of the NBA Finals and was the main defender throughout the game..

MJ was also the main defender and matched up from the tip-off against Isiah Thomas (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9MfhFFE7fc&t=0m28s) and Rod Strickland (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3JqY3CECW8).. And we all know he was matched up from tip-off against Magic, when he guarded Magic for 14 of 20 quarters (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11713075&postcount=45) (70%) in the 1991 Finals.

MJ's far greater experience playing quick ballhandling guards and his superior athleticism made him a better perimeter defender than Pippen..

[FKAri]

When think of a star player with bad defense, the first name that comes to mind is Scottie Pippen.

[ShawkFactory]

MJ's far greater experience playing quick ballhandling guards and his superior athleticism made him a better perimeter defender than Pippen..

That wasn't the thread. The title is: Which star player is/was ACTUALLY a BAD defender?

Hopefully that was just a copy/paste. Although that would be weird too.

Trae Young is a bad defender.

[Full Court]

Literally waited for him to turn back around, so he could drain it in his face.

The disrespect :roll:

:roll:

The thing is, Bronie COULD defend if he wanted to, he's just lazy these days. You can't make someone care :confusedshrug:

[3ba11]

That wasn't the thread. The title is: Which star player is/was ACTUALLY a BAD defender?

Hopefully that was just a copy/paste. Although that would be weird too.

Trae Young is a bad defender.


Video about Chris Mullin destroying Pippen:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zZszuAgyCCs


Video about Detlef Schrempf destroying Pippen:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z5NMThAlG-g


Video about 18-year old Dirk dropping 52 on Pippen

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E1TxcLux7do&t=0m06s


Video about Barkley destroying Pippen:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NpkSSCTvrYU&t=81s&t=02m15s


Video about Grant Hill destroying Pippen

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pzH3-Ak7Acc


Video showing X-man destroying Pippen

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1992-nba-eastern-conference-semifinals-knicks-vs-bulls.html


Video showing Mashburn destroying Pippen

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bRR3Jx8RvoI

[1987_Lakers]

https://youtu.be/p5aNUS762wM?t=944

lol

[tpols]

Aside from Nash this is stereotyping imo. Has there ever been a white player who was considered a great defender?

[ShawkFactory]

Video about Chris Mullin destroying Pippen:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zZszuAgyCCs


Video about Detlef Schrempf destroying Pippen:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z5NMThAlG-g


Video about 18-year old Dirk dropping 52 on Pippen

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E1TxcLux7do&t=0m06s


Video about Barkley destroying Pippen:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NpkSSCTvrYU&t=81s&t=02m15s


Video about Grant Hill destroying Pippen

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pzH3-Ak7Acc


Video showing X-man destroying Pippen

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1992-nba-eastern-conference-semifinals-knicks-vs-bulls.html


Video showing Mashburn destroying Pippen

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bRR3Jx8RvoI

So you ARE arguing that Pippen was a bad defender then?

At least you're consistent with the thread. Well done.

[1987_Lakers]

Aside from Nash this is stereotyping imo. Has there ever been a white player who was considered a great defender?

Yes. Bobby Jones, Bill Walton, Havlicek, AK47 etc. Learn your history.

[1987_Lakers]

To answer OP... Nash, Barkley, Bird, & Magic were considered bad defenders at certain points of their careers.

I wouldn't say Curry is "bad", but teams often attack him because he is their weakest link on that end.

[SouBeachTalents]

Aside from Nash this is stereotyping imo. Has there ever been a white player who was considered a great defender?
Plenty

West
Havlicek
Stockton
Kidd (half white but whatever)
McHale
Bobby Jones
Dave DeBusschere
Mark Eaton

[ShawkFactory]

Aside from Nash this is stereotyping imo. Has there ever been a white player who was considered a great defender?

Stockton, Kirk Hinrich, Andre Kirilenko, Delly, TJ McConnell, Caruso. Just to name a few.

[tpols]

Plenty

West
Havlicek
Stockton
Kidd (half white but whatever)
McHale
Bobby Jones
Dave DeBusschere
Mark Eaton

Jason Kidds dad was black bro. Stocktons the only one on that list I've heard of for his defense. Eaton was just an 8 foot stiff. What I'm getting at is guys like Jokic, and Bird, and Dirk are given these labels by stereotype. They actually were fine defenders. They were better than guys like Magic but he didn't get that type of rap.

[1987_Lakers]

Jason Kidds dad was black bro. Stocktons the only one on that list I've heard of for his defense. Eaton was just an 8 foot stiff. What I'm getting at is guys like Jokic, and Bird, and Dirk are given these labels by stereotype. They actually were fine defenders. They were better than guys like Magic but he didn't get that type of rap.

Cringe, you can't be serious right now. Eaton has 2 DPOY awards. I'm sure that answers your question whether if any white player was considered a great defender.


Aside from Nash this is stereotyping imo. Has there ever been a white player who was considered a great defender?

The stupidity on this board is fascinating.

[tpols]

Cringe, you can't be serious right now. Eaton has 2 DPOY awards. I'm sure that answers your question whether if any white player was considered a great defender.



The stupidity on this board is fascinating.

You can ask Xiao about Eaton. He educated me on the topic.

[Kawhi_Why_Not]

Plenty

West
Havlicek
Stockton
Kidd (half white but whatever)
McHale
Bobby Jones
Dave DeBusschere
Mark Eaton

West might be a myth though. They seemed to hand him a lot back then. Finals MVP without winning hahhahaha

[tpols]

I'm trying to imagine Eaton in today's era. Imagine that guy getting caught on a switch with a guard that can shoot 3s. :oldlol:

[NBAGOAT]

we're just not counting kirilenko marc gasol etc now?

[SouBeachTalents]

I'm trying to imagine Eaton in today's era. Imagine that guy getting caught on a switch with a guard that can shoot 3s. :oldlol:
Yeah, I don't disagree he'd be much less effective in this era, but you can't possibly believe a 2x DPOY who once averaged 5.5 blocks a game and led the Jazz to the number one defense wasn't a great defender :lol

[beasted]

Aside from Nash this is stereotyping imo. Has there ever been a white player who was considered a great defender?

Kirk Hinrich, Andrei Kirilenko, Stockton come to mind right away. I didn't even try.

[tpols]

Kirk Hinrich, Andrei Kirilenko, Stockton come to mind right away. I didn't even try.

What makes you think Jokic is a bad defender though? I'm always curious why people say that. Or Dirk? I remember people used to clown Dirk taking the D off his name, but I'm not seeing the evidence they were bad defenders.

[beasted]

What makes you think Jokic is a bad defender though? I'm always curious why people say that. Or Dirk? I remember people used to clown Dirk taking the D off his name, but I'm not seeing the evidence they were bad defenders.

Dirk was slow footed and was hidden on defense and downright putrid early in his career. He improved as he strengthened and learned the NBA schemes.

I think Jokic's last playoffs speaks for itself.

[ShawkFactory]

What makes you think Jokic is a bad defender though? I'm always curious why people say that. Or Dirk? I remember people used to clown Dirk taking the D off his name, but I'm not seeing the evidence they were bad defenders.

Dirk was self-admittedly not a strong defender. He credits getting Chandler as a big reason they made the run in 2011.

[ralph_i_el]

Aside from Nash this is stereotyping imo. Has there ever been a white player who was considered a great defender?

Marc Gasol?

[Full Court]

Aside from Nash this is stereotyping imo. Has there ever been a white player who was considered a great defender?

Rudy Gobert has won multiple DPOY awards.

[Druckenmiller]

Aside from Nash this is stereotyping imo. Has there ever been a white player who was considered a great defender?

A lot of people think Bobby Jones is one of the best NBA defenders of all time. AK47 was pretty good.

[iamgine]

Everyone can't be average or underrated. It's impossible. Can we admit at least to a couple guys, please?

I regularly see fans defending the defense of players who have a bad reputation defensively since the beginning of time. It happens every time to star players. We've all had these conversations, I'm certain.

One guy says "Curry is a poor defender" and some clown pops up like "Well, actually..."

I just want to know who people can mostly all agree is just bad.

Dirk, Nash, Harden, Carmelo, Stoudemire? Curry? Luka? Jokic?

I think since the beginning of time the only player anyone can all agree on is Trae Young.

The thing is, defense is not just one thing or one person. Nash was okay at stuff like covering the perimeter shots or against slower players. He had trouble with quick players. If he had someone like Gobert covering the rim, he could funnel these quick players to Gobert and boom, suddenly he's a good defender. But if he had Enes Kanter at the rim, suddenly he's an ultra horrible defender.

Also, what do we call terrible defenders but only because they didn't try. I've seen Harden be terrible for 3 quarters and then he started trying late in 4th and played DPOY like defense.

[wagexslave]

D Book was garbage on defense in his early years, I'll admit. He put very little effort on D back then. Then again, it was a toxic culture with a lack of effort from all of his trash teammates. But regardless, he often barely tried at all and struggled to get stops even when he tried. But damn how times have changed, he's gotten so good now. It's surreal how much better he's got especially in these past 2 seasons.

I always thought that he'd improve on D and become around average to slightly above average at best, but he's legitimately good now already.

[theman93]

Aside from Nash this is stereotyping imo. Has there ever been a white player who was considered a great defender?

Doug Christie comes to mind for sure

[Axe]

Toody is pure white? :lol:facepalm

[HoopsNY]

Aside from Nash this is stereotyping imo. Has there ever been a white player who was considered a great defender?

AK-47, Eaton, Stockton...there were many

[HoopsNY]

Yes. Bobby Jones, Bill Walton, Havlicek, AK47 etc. Learn your history.

Yep, good examples.

[HoopsNY]

Doug Christie comes to mind for sure

Christie was an excellent defender. Modern fans don't remember him but the man could play defense. He's mixed though.

[GimmeThat]

in order to be a bad defender, you'd have to score baskets for your opposing team.

[RogueBorg]

Aside from Nash this is stereotyping imo. Has there ever been a white player who was considered a great defender?

Just off the top of my head
Walton
Kirilenko
Bobby Jones
Bird actually was 3x All-Defensive

[Shogon]

Easy...

STEVE NASH

CARMELO ANTHONY

[Johnny32]

Aside from Nash this is stereotyping imo. Has there ever been a white player who was considered a great defender?

Craig Ehlo.

[RogueBorg]

Craig Ehlo.

Of course you think he was a star you know-nothing loser.

[Johnny32]

Of course you think he was a star you know-nothing loser.

My post clearly went over her simple little head.

[Jasper]

When think of a star player with bad defense, the first name that comes to mind is Scottie Pippen.

lmao ... how many all defensive teams was he on ??

How bout NASH ??

[Johnny32]

lmao ... how many all defensive teams was he on ??

How bout NASH ??

And his over yours.

[Axe]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSBmxcUwQvrYKVwTSv_k4NvyNfAR_xZ6 s4rGQ&usqp=CAU