Where does Jokic rank among GOAT offensive centers?

[1987_Lakers]

:confusedshrug:

[8Ball]

Shaq #1.

Jokic and Embiid are #2 and #3.


All the other centers in history don't have a triple threat game (plus free throws):

1) Free throws.
2) Close range.
3) mid range.
4) 3 point shot.

[Full Court]

Wilt is #1.

Shaq is #2.

[FultzNationRISE]

Shaq #1.

Jokic and Embiid are #2 and #3.


All the other centers in history don't have a triple threat game (plus free throws):

1) Free throws.
2) Close range.
3) mid range.
4) 3 point shot.


This is probably the reality more or less.

It’s not “fair” to the centers of the past, since we judge the game by the way it’s evolved today and not the standards their games were adapted to. But it’s what it is.

Altho I would bump each of those guys down a spot to make room for LeCenter at #1.

[8Ball]

This is probably the reality more or less.

It’s not “fair” to the centers of the past, since we judge the game by the way it’s evolved today and not the standards their games were adapted to. But it’s what it is.

Altho I would bump each of those guys down a spot to make room for LeCenter at #1.

It's not fair to them just like its not fair to westbrook that the NBA changed while he is still playing and his style is no longer dominant.

Too bad.

[AlternativeAcc.]

It's not fair to them just like its not fair to westbrook that the NBA changed while he is still playing and his style is no longer dominant.

Too bad.

The NBA 'changing' has nothing to do with westbricks horrible play.

[RRR3]

First. You don’t understand basketball if you disagree.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Shaq #1.

Jokic and Embiid are #2 and #3.


All the other centers in history don't have a triple threat game (plus free throws):

1) Free throws.
2) Close range.
3) mid range.
4) 3 point shot.

Shaq is one of the worst free throw shooters ever and a turnover machine compared to Jokic.

Jokic > Shaq

[tpols]

This is probably the reality more or less.

It’s not “fair” to the centers of the past, since we judge the game by the way it’s evolved today and not the standards their games were adapted to. But it’s what it is.

Altho I would bump each of those guys down a spot to make room for LeCenter at #1.

Kareem and Wilt would destroy Embiid lets be real. So would Hakeem. These are insulting comparisons.

[FultzNationRISE]

Kareem and Wilt would destroy Embiid lets be real. So would Hakeem. These are insulting comparisons.

In a game of 1 on 1, maybe. But the ability to hit three pointers, which also creates more space for the whole team, I think is really valuable.

The reason teams play the way they currently do is because it’s been determined to be the most effective. Naturally being a top player today means youre best suited to play THIS style.

So when you take that all into account, you have to give them a presumptive edge against players of other eras IMO. The game is at its most advanced, and today’s players are there because theyre best adapted to it

[jayfan]

Does anyone really doubt that Hakeem would be hitting 3's on par with Embiid, no problem, if he had come up in this era?

He could do it all.

[tontoz]

Does anyone really doubt that Hakeem would be hitting 3's on par with Embiid, no problem, if he had come up in this era?

He could do it all.

Yes I do doubt it. Hakeem wasn't that good of a shooter. For his career he shot 71% from the foul line, same as Giannis.

Embiid and Jokic both shoot over 80% from the line.

[tpols]

In a game of 1 on 1, maybe. But the ability to hit three pointers, which also creates more space for the whole team, I think is really valuable.

The reason teams play the way they currently do is because it’s been determined to be the most effective. Naturally being a top player today means youre best suited to play THIS style.

So when you take that all into account, you have to give them a presumptive edge against players of other eras IMO. The game is at its most advanced, and today’s players are there because theyre best adapted to it

Centers shooting 3s may actually be a bad thing. They're much more dangerous punishing teams down low and wearing them out. When teams today already have 4 shooter spacing having a dominant big man down low is better than all 5 guys sitting around the 3pt line. Imagine how much room a dominant low post center would have to operate with today's 4 corner spacing.

Embiid has never seen the type of size, athleticism and skill guys like Wilt and Kareem had. Wilt was an Olympic athlete pedigree in track and field, taller and heavier and much stronger in his late prime. Embiid doesn't even remotely compare. He would get winded, tossed around, and ran on up and down the court all game long.

[Manny98]

1

Shaq second

[Im Still Ballin]

He's a pretty special talent, especially when you break his offensive talent down.

- He's hitting mid-range shots like Dirk
- Scores in the post like McHale (61% eFG/1.12 PPP)
- Can hit floaters and push shots off the dribble
- Passes as good as anyone; better than anyone out of the post
- Is a solid 3pt shooter
- Attacks mismatches
- Can be effective as both the ball handler or the roll man
- Great off-the-ball as well as on-the-ball
- Hits free throws
- Fantastic offensive rebounder

Am I missing anything?

I personally love how he will back mismatches down from the perimeter and score easy post points. He's quite a big guy: looks to be 270+ pounds with a wide frame and long arms.

He also doesn't hog the ball. I believe his time of possession is very low. Touches the ball a lot, but doesn't hoarde it.

[8Ball]

Shaq is one of the worst free throw shooters ever and a turnover machine compared to Jokic.

Jokic > Shaq

Shaq was so overwhelmingly dominant at close range that it overrides the others.

And he is the only center in history I will say that about.

[jayfan]

Yes I do doubt it. Hakeem wasn't that good of a shooter. For his career he shot 71% from the foul line, same as Giannis.

Embiid and Jokic both shoot over 80% from the line.

They work on shooting infinitely more than Hakeem ever did. That's the point. But Hakeem was still hitting jumpers from the top of the key by the early-mid 90's. His talent was so filthy, he would've been acing 3's if he drilled for them like today's players do.

[tontoz]

They work on shooting infinitely more than Hakeem ever did. That's the point. But Hakeem was still hitting jumpers from the top of the key by the early-mid 90's. His talent was so filthy, he would've been acing 3's if he drilled for them like today's players do.


Lol people love to make excuses for older players. Are you really trying to use the era argument to explain bad foul shooting? :oldlol:

Pretty sure guys worked on their foul shooting back then too.

[Kawhi_Why_Not]

He hasn't shown enough in the playoffs, so we don't know yet. He's a choker. Any other player that only has 1 conference finals win would never be talked about like this. His playoff resume is even worse then guys like Chris Webber.

[jlip]

Wilt, Kareem, Shaq/ Jokic

[HylianNightmare]

Top 7-111

[SouBeachTalents]

Top 7-111
Name 6 centers who were better offensively than Jokic

[999Guy]

Wilt, Kareem, Shaq/ Jokic

..Wilt? He’s worse at basically everything.

And Kareem/Shaq don’t have serious cases for a guy who makes Chris Paul look regular skill wise and can pretty much score at the rim, all game at-will.


63 points on 22/25 overall in his last 2 games.

[tontoz]

He hasn't shown enough in the playoffs, so we don't know yet. He's a choker. Any other player that only has 1 conference finals win would never be talked about like this. His playoff resume is even worse then guys like Chris Webber.

He's been a beast in the playoffs, 26/11/6 for his career.

Choking is going 6-22 in game 7. :oldlol:

[TheGoatest]

He is a true asset to this era, which has no position weak links, unlike certain other crappy eras throughout history. Jokic, Embiid and KAT are all waaaaay better centers than Mitch Richmond, Reggie Miller and Latrell Sprewell are shooting guards, that's for sure. :oldlol:

[bizil]

Joker has shown he's the best blend of scoring ability and passing EVER at the center spot. Once he upped the ante scoring, it was only gonna be a matter of time that he would be in that realm. Even scoring skillset wise among 5's, I would put him and Embid at the top of the list. I'm NOT SAYING he's the best scoring center ever though.

[Nanners]

Its hard to compare him to old centers because of how much the game has changed in recent years, but I think it would be pretty easy to argue that he is top 5 all-time and maybe even the GOAT depending on how much you value his versatility and efficiency. So far this season Jokic currently has the highest single season PER of any player in NBA history, higher than Wilts legendary 1962 season.

[1987_Lakers]

In only 33 mpg this season he is averaging 27/14/8 on 66 TS%, pretty safe to say we have never seen those numbers from a center in the modern era. He has surpassed peak Walton as a passer too, we have never seen a center with his passing skills and he is probably the most efficient scorer we have ever seen from the C spot as well when you factor in free throws. Has his team as a top 6 offense despite not having much help on that end. It's getting harder and harder for me not to label him the GOAT offensive center if we are just talking peaks.

[AlternativeAcc.]

In only 33 mpg this season he is averaging 27/14/8 on 66 TS%, pretty safe to say we have never seen those numbers from a center in the modern era. He has surpassed peak Walton as a passer too, we have never seen a center with his passing skills and he is probably the most efficient scorer we have ever seen from the C spot as well when you factor in free throws. Has his team as a top 6 offense despite not having much help on that end. It's getting harder and harder for me not to label him the GOAT offensive center if we are just talking peaks.

He's the only player in history to average at least 25/13/6...

Like the 27/14 on 66ts% is dominant as is... but adding 8 assists and GOAT tier passing is nothing short of mind boggling.

[John_Connor]

skill wise he's #1

accomplishments wise he's probly not even top 10

[Axe]

Mitch Richmond, Reggie Miller and Latrell Sprewell
Well if those players are a big joke, then why even bother bring their names up in threads that have nothing to do with them? Sounds like pure desperation to me.

[Round Mound]

I have seen me some Jokic. I think the dude might be the best passing center ever (close by with Walton and Sabonis). But i don't think he could guard Wilt, Kareem, Shaq or Hakeem in 1 on 1 situations. He is slow footed sideways,

[1987_Lakers]

skill wise he's #1

accomplishments wise he's probly not even top 10

He's about to have more MVPs than Kobe.

[dankok8]

Definitely up there. I would have Kareem and Shaq above him until he proves it in the playoffs. Jokic's play has been so transcendent thus far though that I have no problem saying he's the #3 offensive center ever. And honestly the increased physicality of prior errors wouldn't really stymie him much. Dude is powerful, built like a tank and tough like all of us Serbs are LOL

[j3lademaster]

I have seen me some Jokic. I think the dude might be the best passing center ever (close by with Walton and Sabonis). But i don't think he could guard Wilt, Kareem, Shaq or Hakeem in 1 on 1 situations. He is slow footed sideways,Who could?

[tontoz]

Definitely up there. I would have Kareem and Shaq above him until he proves it in the playoffs. Jokic's play has been so transcendent thus far though that I have no problem saying he's the #3 offensive center ever. And honestly the increased physicality of prior errors wouldn't really stymie him much. Dude is powerful, built like a tank and tough like all of us Serbs are LOL


This run of strong play started in the playoffs. His first year in the playoffs back in 2019 he averaged 25/13/8 shooting 55% on 2s, 39% on 3s.

[bizil]

If we are talking scoring and passing as a package (regardless of skill used), Joker is the best offensive center ever. BUT when u throw in his SKILL LEVEL used for his scoring and passing, he's also the most SKILLED offensive center ever. Skill wise, Joker JUMPED off the page a few seasons ago. BUT he wasn't dominant enough to be the best offensive center ever. But once he upped the ante scoring the rock, AT THAT POINT you could say he's the best offensive center ever. IN TERMS of scoring and passing as a package among centers.

Walton was never a dominant scorer And a lot of the great scoring centers WEREN'T truly elite passers. So a Wilt, Kareem, David, or Shaq would be the answer before. For the blend of scoring and passing. All three very good maybe at times great passers for a center. Hell Wilt even won an assists title. BUT the Joker is on a different level passing the rock. Among non PG's, you could make the case he's among the top 5 passers EVER! In the class with Bron and Bird.

Joker and Embid are looking like they could PASS UP every center peak-prime wise EXCEPT Kareem, Shaq, Wilt, and the Dream. I'm not ready to put them above those guys. But the fact they are looking like they could be top 6 centers ever peak-prime wise is saying a lot. Just gotta see how much longer they will be at this type of level. If they win rings, then them getting on that type of level GOAT wise will be a mere formality.

[insight]

Sorry Joker isn't in my top 5. He is a great contemporary center, tremendous passer and stat machine, but he is nowhere close to dominant centers like Shaq, Kareem, Olajuwan. This era simply is WEAK with no real dominant big man who are unstoppable. In reality he is not really a center, he is a power forward and most of the comparisons with real big men don't make sense.
Lebron James has literally played center in the era. Houston made the playoffs without a center on the roster, this era doesn't have GOAT centers.

[bizil]

Sorry Joker isn't in my top 5. He is a great contemporary center, tremendous passer and stat machine, but he is nowhere close to dominant centers like Shaq, Kareem, Olajuwan. This era simply is WEAK with no real dominant big man who are unstoppable. In reality he is not really a center, he is a power forward and most of the comparisons with real big men don't make sense.
Lebron James has literally played center in the era. Houston made the playoffs without a center on the roster, this era doesn't have GOAT centers.

Some people look at offense as PURELY scoring ability. In that case, I wouldn't put Joker ahead of Shaq, Wilt, Kareem, Dream, Moses. U still got guys like Ewing and David too. Now you have Embid. And KAT is stepping him his game. BUT when u talk about SCORING SKILLSET, Joker, Embid, and KAT jump above ALL THOSE GUYS! Not saying they are better scorers. BUT they are more skilled. It's the natural evolution of the game. And passing wise, Joker has proven he's the best passing center ever.

So if it's about who combines scoring ability and passing the best, it's Joker hands down. If we are talking scoring skillset, he's among the top three centers ever. So ANY ARGUMENT for Joker being the GOAT offensive center would be based around these two things.

IF we are just talking scoring in general, (not the skill used to score), then Joker doesn't rank as high. U got guys who put MORE HEAT on a defense with their physical dominance. Or you had Kareem with the ultimate weapon in the skyhook. PLUS some of those centers could guard Joker better THAN he could guard them. But if it's about who puts the most FEAR in a defense scoring the rock, then I gotta say Wilt, Kareem, and Shaq.