Who is the best shooter ever that you would also call an elite athlete?

[Kblaze8855]

I leave the definition of all those terms to you. Your understanding of “elite”. Your chosen definition of “shooter”. I’m not gonna ask you to defend your definition. I just want who comes to mind first as a combo of both.

Id imagine it would depend on what you consider elite athletic ability and if shooting for you is a jumper from anywhere or specifically outside shooting. Just give me who comes to mind first for you. Questions that I think need answering….


Young Ray Allen….elite athlete or just good?

Vince Carter somewhere on a short list of say….5?

[1987_Lakers]

Byron Scott came to mind.. He posterized lots of players, although I wouldn't call him an all-time great shooter.

[1987_Lakers]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FUdYa5hdMPw

[tpols]

Durant and AD.

[PeroAntic]

KD or PG

[Norcaliblunt]

Who’s the best dunker 3 point shooter combo? Has there been anyone who was in the dunk and 3 point shooting contest?

[Manny98]

JR Smith

[3ba11]

Out of all the all-time athletes - Wilt, Lebron, MJ, Giannis, Dr. J, Zion, Dominique, Kemp - only MJ is an all-time shooter on 2's or 3's

So the answer is obviously MJ - sorry to disappoint

[tontoz]

VC was the first guy who came to mind. Ray was a good athlete but not sure if I would say he is elite.

:oldlol: @ people mentioning Durant. Elite player but elite athlete? Come on.

[3ba11]

VC was the first guy who came to mind. Ray was a good athlete but not sure if I would say he is elite.

:oldlol: @ people mentioning Durant. Elite player but elite athlete? Come on.


Vince was just a leaper

And a very slow one - the slowest ever infact

He also wasn't strong or quick or an all-time athlete.. pretty absurd

[FultzNationRISE]

Hmm, gee, I wonder if there are any freakish athletes who shoot with elite efficiency while leading the NBA in points?

I dunno man.

This is a tough one.

[tpols]

VC was the first guy who came to mind. Ray was a good athlete but not sure if I would say he is elite.

:oldlol: @ people mentioning Durant. Elite player but elite athlete? Come on.

Durant has elite speed, agility and quickness at his height. He would be channing Frye without those attributes.

I watched Vince for years on the Nets. Back when he posterized Zo. Carter had hops but he was slow. He wasn't a fluid fast up and down the court player.

You re stereotyping all athleticism as just hops.

[HoopsNY]

Ray Allen. If you recall him in 1997, you'd have to agree.

[3ba11]

all-time athletes need the whole package - all-time speed, hops, quick-hops, and power

Only a few guys check all the boxes - guys like Wilt, Lebron, MJ, Kemp, Dominique, Zion, Giannis, Dr. J - and only 1 of the all-time athletes was an all-time shooter on 2's or 3's - MJ of course

[Im so nba'd out]

Jason richardson
Vince could shoot it
Forgot about a young ray allen, poster above reminded me of dunking on ppl with him in nba live 01.
Ummm you got KD, Devin Booker even though he rarely uses his athleticism
Peak harden
Embiid
Dame

[FultzNationRISE]

If you prioritize “degree of difficulty” shooting and not efficiency, while also being an elite athlete by nba standards, you could certainly make an argument for Kobe.

Again, the answer is Lebron, but a guy like Kobe could be worth an honorable mention.

[tontoz]

Durant has elite speed, agility and quickness at his height. He would be channing Frye without those attributes.

I watched Vince for years on the Nets. Back when he posterized Zo. Carter had hops but he was slow. He wasn't a fluid fast up and down the court player.

You re stereotyping all athleticism as just hops.

Durant is one of the weakest players in the league. His 33 inch vertical is weak too and he isn't fast. He just has elite skills which hide his lack of athleticism. At the combine he got dusted in the sprint by Greg Oden.

If he was an elite athlete he would be the goat.

[CelticBaller]

Ray Allen obviously

[FultzNationRISE]

Durant is one of the weakest players in the league. His 33 inch vertical is weak too and he isn't fast. He just has elite skills which hide his lack of athleticism.

If he was an elite athlete he would be the goat.


I wouldnt even call his skills elite tbh. If his skills are elite, what are Irving’s, Jokic’s, or Lebron’s?

Durant is a great shooter with height and mobility. If you make him an average NBA shooter, he’s probably not in the league.

[tontoz]

I wouldnt even call his skills elite tbh. If his skills are elite, what are Irving’s, Jokic’s, or Lebron’s?

Durant is a great shooter with height and mobility. If you make him an average NBA shooter, he’s probably not in the league.


Durant is an elite shooter with average at best athleticism. LeBron is an elite athlete who made himself into a respectable shooter.

[FultzNationRISE]

Ray Allen obviously

He’s the clear cut answer if you take a liberal definition of ‘elite.’

Hes an above average athlete by nba standards. But elite is another tier up. Is Ray Allen an ELITE nba athlete?? That’s not so clear to me.

[FultzNationRISE]

Durant is an elite shooter with average at best athleticism. LeBron is an elite athlete who made himself into a respectable shooter.

I agree about Durant’s athleticism. But I also dont consider his skills elite. His primary advantage is being an elite shooter at 7 feet tall. And he’s reasonably mobile.

[HylianNightmare]

Ray Ray

[Shogon]

This is a loaded question because the cutoff for "elite athlete" is going to vary wildly based on one's perspective.

Kevin Durant would probably be my answer, kneejerk reaction.

And yes, people, there is a lot more to elite athleticism than vertical leap, lol.

[tontoz]

I agree about Durant’s athleticism. But I also dont consider his skills elite. His primary advantage is being an elite shooter at 7 feet tall. And he’s reasonably mobile.


He shoots off the dribble well moving in any direction, from any distance, something very few people can do. He has excellent handles too but his lack of athleticism prevents him from taking advantage of them like other guys do.

[Kblaze8855]

Durant is an elite shooter with average at best athleticism. LeBron is an elite athlete who made himself into a respectable shooter.


Average best? So you think Durant is a below average athlete?

[tontoz]

Average best? So you think Durant is a below average athlete?

Of course. They test athleticism at the combine and his results were laughable.

Just compare KD to Horford who came out that same year. Horford beat him at everything. Horfords vert was 2" higher, faster in the sprint and agility times and obviously far stronger.

KD couldn't bench 185 pounds once.horford did it 20 times, obviously some of that was being older.

[Westbrook_Fan]

LeBron James

[3ba11]

Of course. They test athleticism at the combine and his results were laughable.

Just compare KD to Horford who came out that same year. Horford beat him at everything. Horfords very was 2" higher, faster in the sprint and agility times and obviously far stronger.

KD couldn't bench 185 pounds once.horford did it 20 times, obviously some of that was being older.


Yeah, Durant has elite jumpshooting skill but lacks the power - no need for a "wall" or "Rules" against Durant...

But Lebron lacks elite jumpshooting skill, so he lacks the lethality to compromise the defense by doubling him, nor can he elevate teammates by producing off-screens

So both have gaping holes in their offensive game, but Lebron's are a lot bigger and requires more supporting talent due to weaker teammate fits

[Shogon]

Of course. They test athleticism at the combine and his results were laughable.

Just compare KD to Horford who came out that same year. Horford beat him at everything. Horfords vert was 2" higher, faster in the sprint and agility times and obviously far stronger.

KD couldn't bench 185 pounds once.horford did it 20 times, obviously some of that was being older.

https://c.tenor.com/jrwSd0X9K4oAAAAC/bullshit-pointing.gif

Kevin Durant has elite athleticism for his size.

And if we're not taking size into account, what the **** are we even doing here? It has to be acknowledged.

The amount of 7 footers that can move like Durant in NBA history? Zero.

[Shogon]

Hell, probably 100 billion people have ever lived... and the amount that were Kevin Durant's height or more that could move like he can move, you could probably count on a couple of hands at best... MAYBE.

He is abso****inglutely an elite athlete.

[tontoz]

https://c.tenor.com/jrwSd0X9K4oAAAAC/bullshit-pointing.gif

Kevin Durant has elite athleticism for his size.

And if we're not taking size into account, what the **** are we even doing here? It has to be acknowledged.

The amount of 7 footers that can move like Durant in NBA history? Zero.


:roll:

There are plenty of guys in the league right now Durant's size or greater that are easily more athletic. Horford is one and how many people consider him an elite athlete.

Kuzma is more athletic than Durant. He is faster and stronger easily and nobody considers him an elite athlete by NBA standards.

[Shogon]

:roll:

There are plenty of guys in the league right now Durant's size or greater that are easily more athletic. Horford is one and how many people consider him an elite athlete.

Kuzma is more athletic than Durant. He is faster and stronger easily and nobody considers him an elite athlete.

Horford is 6'9". Kevin Durant is 7 foot and lying about his height. The ****?

[tpols]

Imagine thinking stiff ass Al Horford is a smoother athlete than Kevin Durant. :roll:

This forum man....

[tontoz]

Horford is 6'9". Kevin Durant is 7 foot and lying about his height. The ****?

You do realize they actually measure players at the combine, right?

Durant measured an inch taller than horford.

https://www.nba.com/stats/draft/combine-anthro/

[Shogon]

From google...


Athleticism is formed by ten key components that make up balanced physical fitness, or what we refer to as complete athleticism. They are strength, speed, power, agility, anaerobic capacity, aerobic capacity, mobility, balance and coordination, mental resilience, and stability.

Kevin Durant is one of the most athletic people in NBA history given his size. And he checks the mark on elite jump shooter.

He's my answer. **** off.

[tontoz]

Imagine thinking stiff ass Al Horford is a smoother athlete than Kevin Durant. :roll:

This forum man....

So you think horford is stiff on defense? Tell that to Celtics fans:oldlol:

[tontoz]

From google...



Kevin Durant is one of the most athletic people in NBA history given his size. And he checks the mark on elite jump shooter.

He's my answer. **** off.


The problem is that we are comparing Durant to other NBA players, not message board trolls. :oldlol:

Weak af, below average speed and hops. They measure that stuff for a reason.

[Shogon]

You do realize they actually measure players at the combine, right?

Durant measured an inch taller than horford.

https://www.nba.com/stats/draft/combine-anthro/

Durant was 19.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/the-great-debate-is-over-kevin-durant-finally-admitted-his-real-height/

He says he's 7 foot with shoes... 6'10" and 3 quarters without. Whatever. 6'11". He's taller than Horford are far more athletic overall.

You are a retard.

There has never been a player in NBA history that is 6'11" that can move with the ball like him. There's never been one at 6'10" that can move like him. He is 1 of 1.


Clearly he is not as overall athletic as Wilt, Shaq, etc... I am just saying. Throw in the jump shooting? Nobody else has ever had that. Ever.

[tontoz]

Durant was 19.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/the-great-debate-is-over-kevin-durant-finally-admitted-his-real-height/

He says he's 7 foot with shoes... 6'10" and 3 quarters without. Whatever. 6'11". He's taller than Horford are far more athletic overall.

You are a retard.

There has never been a player in NBA history that is 6'11" that can move with the ball like him. There's never been one at 6'10" that can move like him. He is 1 of 1.


Clearly he is not as overall athletic as Wilt, Shaq, etc... I am just saying. Throw in the jump shooting? Nobody else has ever had that. Ever.

:roll:

There have been hundreds of NBA players his size who were more athletic than him. He is one of the weakest bigs in NBA history, isn't that fast and can't jump well.

Durant is listed as an inch taller than horford which is what they measured at the combine. They don't inflate guys heights any more like they used to.

Horford is stronger by far, faster and jumps higher. Hence his is more athletic.

Guys like Drob, Wilt and Kareem were far taller and far more athletic than Durant.

[Shogon]

There have been hundreds of NBA players his size who were more athletic than him.

Ok, that's the end of this convo. Have fun talking to yourself or with someone else, it just sure as shit isn't going to be me.

[tontoz]

Bam is another guy far more athletic than Durant, stronger faster and jumps far highest. Of course he isn't nearly as skilled with the ball but that is a different discussion.

[tontoz]

Ok, that's the end of this convo. Have fun talking to yourself or with someone else, it just sure as shit isn't going to be me.


It is funny that you call other people retards when you can't see that Durant is one of the weakest bigs in the league.

[iamgine]

I'd say Zach Lavine. No one can deny he's an elite athlete and he's shooting at 40% from three at volume.

[tontoz]

I'd say Zach Lavine. No one can deny he's an elite athlete and he's shooting at 40% from three at volume.

Good call. Slam dunk champ who shoots well off the catch and off the dribble.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Durants dexterity, mobility, agility and coordination for his size is rare.

He's an elite athlete because what he can do at his height and length is very rare. He's not gonna measure well in strength or straight line speed. It's his overall coordination and fluidity which can't be measured

[HoopsNY]

tontoz isn't wrong. I think a lot of people are mixing Durant's offensive skillset with his athleticism. He is by no means an elite athlete.

[tontoz]

Durants dexterity, mobility, agility and coordination for his size is rare.

He's an elite athlete because what he can do at his height and length is very rare. He's not gonna measure well in strength or straight line speed. It's his overall coordination and fluidity which can't be measured

The problem is that he looks so fluid in part because of all the work he has done on his skills his whole life. He has always been a gym rat. Just because a guy has good skills doesn't make him a better athlete than a guy with lesser skills.

[FultzNationRISE]

Hell, probably 100 billion people have ever lived... and the amount that were Kevin Durant's height or more that could move like he can move, you could probably count on a couple of hands at best... MAYBE.

He is abso****inglutely an elite athlete.

I think the assumption is we’re talking elite by NBA standards.

So for 7 footers the measuring stick for pure athleticism is guys like Giannis, Howard, Wilt, even someone like DeAndre Jordan.

Durant is unquestionably not an elite athlete by NBA standards.

[Baller789]

David Robinson had a pretty good mid range jumper on him.

[FultzNationRISE]

“Athlete” typically means attributes that will translate to a variety of sports, not just specialization for one.

Picture Durant trying to run after the catch in football. Or doing a 50m hurdles. Or swinging a baseball bat.

Does anyone really think Durant would be among the top NBA players in other athletic disciplines?

Not even close.

Hes built perfectly for basketball. But it isnt bc hes an elite athlete.

[tontoz]

David Robinson had a pretty good mid range jumper on him.


He wasn't that good of a shooter but he was definitely an elite athlete, probably the fastest 7 footer I ever saw end to end. Weight room freak too.

[AlternativeAcc.]

“Athlete” typically means attributes that will translate to a variety of sports, not just specialization for one.

Picture Durant trying to run after the catch in football. Or doing a 50m hurdles. Or swinging a baseball bat.

Does anyone really think Durant would be one of the top NBA players in these other kinds of athletic disciplines?

Not even close.

Hes built perfectly for basketball. But it isnt bc hes an elite athlete.

Go watch the flag football game he played against LeBron during the lockout in 2012. He looks like a beast.

[Kawhi_Why_Not]

Physical strength is considered athleticism as well so I would put kawhi there. He's certainly more athletic then kevin durant I would say.

Hes not crazy fast but he's still really fluid when he moves and mobile for his size.

[AlternativeAcc.]

The problem is that he looks so fluid in part because of all the work he has done on his skills his whole life. He has always been a gym rat. Just because a guy has good skills doesn't make him a better athlete than a guy with lesser skills.

But when do you see jokic towering through the lane with a nasty dunk? That's a highly athletic feat and he does it multiple times per game. He's a pretty great athlete.

[tontoz]

But when do you see jokic towering through the lane with a nasty dunk? That's a highly athletic feat and he does it multiple times per game. He's a pretty great athlete.

No he really isn't. He is a big guy that people don't want to take a charge from.

Getting hit by him could be hazardous to your health. Has Morris started playing yet? :oldlol:

Size and skills have been the keys to greatness for guys like Jokic, Bird, Dirk and Durant.

[La Frescobaldi]

https://c.tenor.com/jrwSd0X9K4oAAAAC/bullshit-pointing.gif

Kevin Durant has elite athleticism for his size.

And if we're not taking size into account, what the **** are we even doing here? It has to be acknowledged.

The amount of 7 footers that can move like Durant in NBA history? Zero.

No. Chamberlain was faster baseline to baseline and as fast, paint to the corner. Dude was seriously fast. Immense vertical. Stronger. Quickness is closer than ya think, he was very very quick and his hands were a blur. Shooting goes to Durant but look at fgp. Dribbling no contest it’s Durant but the actual question is great shooting and elite athleticism.

[AlternativeAcc.]

No he really isn't. He is a big guy that people don't want to take a charge from.

Getting hit by him could be hazardous to your health. Has Morris started playing yet? :oldlol:

Size and skills have been the keys to greatness for guys like Jokic, Bird, Dirk and Durant.

I meant durant is a good athlete not jokic.

Jokic has size and skill but he's not doing shit durant does, not close. Or bird.

Durant is a really good athlete. Maybe not if he had a 6ft frame but size matters.

[Shogon]

It's very clear to me that people do not understand that the word athlete encompasses more than leaping ability, top sprinting speed, and strength. Of course, these are extremely important aspects of athleticism, but I literally pulled up a definition for y'all, and you still ignore it. C'est la vie.

I honestly do not understand how anyone could watch Kevin Durant play and come away thinking of him as an "average" athlete, even by NBA standards, lol.

[tontoz]

I meant durant is a good athlete not jokic.

Jokic has size and skill but he's not doing shit durant does, not close. Or bird.

Durant is a really good athlete. Maybe not if he had a 6ft frame but size matters.

He can get to the rim because nof his skills. The threat of his jumper and his ball handling skill allows him to get to the rim and dunking isn't hard at his height lol.

Athletically he can't hold a candle to Bam.

[999Guy]

Kawhi, insane body and alternative athleticism aka brakes, strength, balance, white still maintaining good speed and quickness. Fluidity with the strength and balance, hands, is really what makes him all-time. Very much CP3-esque, amazing all-around athlete. No clear attribute to make it obvious.

Jordan. Elite pull up game from mid range bad FT shooter. Steep shot arc that made his distance on shooting really unreliable. And hurts him in this category. However the lot explosive mentioned here. Unreal quickness and fluidity.


KD, best shooter mentioned so far. Worse athlete mentioned IMO. Clunky feet, not particularly game breaking on any one physical attribute, actually bottom level strength wise. Coordination and dexterity is freaky for his length like Kawhi, but ehhhh. Idk how to feel about him here.

Kevin Garnett. Very good pure shooter. All-time level mobility at his height. Low level strength for position, not necessarily flat out weak like KD. Absolutely insane motor, probably one of the i highest motors ever, and did it for longer than a guy like MJ who stopped really playing insanely energetic by 92-ish.

This is all subjective IMO. Idk who struck the best balance or just the best balance is.

[AlternativeAcc.]

He can get to the rim because nof his skills. The threat of his jumper and his ball handling skill allows him to get to the rim and dunking isn't hard at his height lol.

Athletically he can't hold a candle to Bam.
Skills and athleticism intertwine though. His dexterity and body coordination is why he's able to handle like a guard and bam can't. Bam is stronger. Durant is athletically way more fluid.

https://media.balls.ie/uploads/2012/06/KDUNK.gif



Why doesn't Bird or jokic have highlights like this if they have size and skill like Durant?

[tontoz]

KD, best shooter mentioned so far. Worse athlete mentioned IMO. Clunky feet, not particularly game breaking on any one physical attribute, actually bottom level strength wise. Coordination and dexterity is freaky for his length like Kawhi, but ehhhh. Idk how to feel about him here.

.

:applause:

[eliteballer]

It's obviously Ray Allen.

Next would be Tracy McGrady.

[tontoz]

Skills and athleticism intertwine though. His dexterity and body coordination is why he's able to handle like a guard and bam can't. Bam is stronger. Durant is athletically way more fluid.

https://media.balls.ie/uploads/2012/06/KDUNK.gif



Why doesn't Bird or jokic have highlights like this if they have size and skill like Durant?


Take the ball out of KDs hands and his lack of athleticism gets exposed.

Is that Lowry, a 6 foot of he is dunking on? Not impressed.


https://youtu.be/RwjTw40mfls

[tontoz]

It's obviously Ray Allen.

Next would be Tracy McGrady.

Problem is McGrady wasn't an elite shooter. Great athlete though.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Take the ball out of KDs hands and his lack of athleticism gets exposed.

Is that Lowry, a 6 foot of he is dunking on? Not impressed.


https://youtu.be/RwjTw40mfls

The good news is that Durant has 100's of these highlights and Bird has none. :oldlol:



And no that's him dunking on Chris Bosh and Joel Anthony in the Finals.

[tontoz]

The good news is that Durant has 100's of these highlights and Bird has none. :oldlol:



And no that's him dunking on Chris Bosh and Joel Anthony in the Finals.

So how did he get past anthony? It doesn't show it but it is a pretty safe bet he used his ball skills.

Without the ball he is weak af with below average hops and speed. He is still tall though.:oldlol:

While Bird doesn't have as many dunks as KD he does have some. You will never find any clip of Durant playing bully ball inside, something Bird did routinely because of his strength which KD doesn't have.

[AlternativeAcc.]

So how did he get past anthony? It doesn't show it but it is a pretty safe bet he used his ball skills.

Without the ball he is weak af with below average hops and speed. He is still tall though.:oldlol:

While Bird doesn't have as many dunks as KD he does have some. You will never find any clip of Durant playing bully ball inside, something Bird did routinely because of his strength which KD doesn't have.

Yes, strength is one aspect of athleticism. There's dozens more and KD beats Bird in most. There's power lifters that are damn strong but have absolutely no coordination or fluidity. They're not great athletes. You're naming two features of athleticism (strength, speed) without the context of Durant being 7 foot with ridiculously long strides and arms. He doesn't need to run a 4.4 or lift 500 pounds. He can go run a route in football and catch it over the faster guy every time. Size.. matters. His length and coordination combo.. matters. And in order to develop "ball skills" you must have dexterity.. a feature of athleticism... hand eye coordination is a feature of athleticism. Sure in a vaccum they don't mean much, but dexterity and hand-eye coordination in a 7ft frame matters a lot.

Again, you can't have the types of highlights that Durant has and not be a great athlete. It's his length and coordination that is so rare, which allows him to routinely dunk on big men, and make it look effortless. It's an athletic AND skill thing. Both can be true.

[tontoz]

Yes, strength is one aspect of athleticism. There's dozens more and KD beats Bird in most. There's power lifters that are damn strong but have absolutely no coordination or fluidity. They're not great athletes. You're naming two features of athleticism (strength, speed) without the context of Durant being 7 foot with ridiculously long strides and arms. He doesn't need to run a 4.4 or lift 500 pounds. He can go run a route in football and catch it over the more athletic guy every time. Size.. matters. His length and coordination combo.. matters. And in order to develop "ball skills" you must have dexterity.. a feature of athleticism... hand eye coordination is a feature of athleticism. Sure in a vaccum they don't mean much, but dexterity and hand-eye coordination in a 7ft frame matters a lot.

Again, you can't have the types of highlights that Durant has and not be a great athlete. It's his length and coordination that is so rare, which allows him to routinely dunk on big men, and make it look effortless. It's an athletic AND skill thing. Both can be true.

So do you think Kyrie is more athletic than Westbrook? Should we consider Steph a great athlete?

:facepalm

There have been plenty of guys his height or more with far more athleticism. When you talk about how rare he is you are talking about his skills which are rare for his height.

His jumping ability isn't rare.
His speed isn't rare.
His strength really isn't rare. It is bottom tier in the league.

If he wasn't a good shooter he wouldn't be in the league.

[AlternativeAcc.]

So do you think Kyrie is more athletic than Westbrook? Should we consider Steph a great athlete?

:facepalm

That's what's you got out of my post? I never said dexterity and hand-eye are the ONLY features of athleticism, did I?

You're making a losing argument so you have to straw-man, that's ok. I still think you're a good poster.

Steph and Kyrie don't have the highlights that Durant has... that's my point. You're saying he's weak and slow but he has a million posters in the NBA showcasing ridiculous body-control and fluidity. Kyrie and Curry have none. Because they're short. And not long. That's my point. If you extended them to 7 feet and they maintained their body control, dexterity, and fluidity then they would absolutely be considered great athletes.

[tontoz]

That's what's you got out of my post? I never said dexterity and hand-eye are the ONLY features of athleticism, did I?

You're making a losing argument so you have to straw-man, that's ok. I still think you're a good poster.

Steph and Kyrie don't have the highlights that Durant has... that's my point. You're saying he's weak and slow but he has a million posters in the NBA showcasing ridiculous body-control and fluidity. Kyrie and Curry have none. Because they're short. And not long. That's my point. If you extended them to 7 feet and they maintained their body control, dexterity, and fluidity then they would absolutely be considered great athletes.


Posters? Really? It isn't hard to dunk at his height.

What if he wasn't a good shooter? What if he had a jumper like Westbrook? If he was in the NBA at all he would be pretty useless.

He couldn't play like Jared Allen, Bam or Capella because he isn't athletic enough.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Posters? Really? It isn't hard to dunk at his height.

What if he wasn't a good shooter? What if he had a jumper like Westbrook? If he was in the NBA at all he would be pretty useless.

He couldn't play like Jared Allen, Bam or Capella because he isn't athletic enough.

Now we're just going around in circles.

You keep acting like being able to shoot and ball-handle doesn't require forms of athleticism. You have a very shallow view of 'athleticism' and think if you can run fast and jump high you're a great athlete. There's guys off the street that can jump higher and run faster. But they're not 7 feet tall with fluidity. So they can never achieve what Durant can as an athlete.

It's like you don't understand that Durant is 7 feet tall. His 1st step for his size is extremely rare. His agility is extremely rare. His dexterity is extremely rare.

Stop comparing him to 6 footers. He's not 6 feet ****ing tall. That is the point. Stop comparing him to clunky big men with no fluidity what so ever. They are simply stronger. That doesn't make them overall more athletic.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Posters? Really? It isn't hard to dunk at his height.


You still haven't answered why Jokic and Bird don't have any like Durant if they're just as tall and skilled. :oldlol:

It's so easy though..

[ralph_i_el]

I wouldnt even call his skills elite tbh. If his skills are elite, what are Irving’s, Jokic’s, or Lebron’s?

Durant is a great shooter with height and mobility. If you make him an average NBA shooter, he’s probably not in the league.

He probably also has the greatest ballhandling ever for his height.

[tontoz]

Now we're just going around in circles.

You keep acting like being able to shoot and ball-handle doesn't require forms of athleticism. You have a very shallow view of 'athleticism' and think if you can run fast and jump high you're a great athlete. There's guys off the street that can jump higher and run faster. But they're not 7 feet tall with fluidity. So they can never achieve what Durant can as an athlete.

It's like you don't understand that Durant is 7 feet tall. His 1st step for his size is extremely rare. His agility is extremely rare. His dexterity is extremely rare.

Stop comparing him to 6 footers. He's not 6 feet ****ing tall. That is the point. Stop comparing him to clunky big men with no fluidity what so ever. They are simply stronger. That doesn't make them overall more athletic.


Allen is taller than Durant. He is also stronger, faster and jumps higher. He is an effective NBA player without a jumper because of his size and athleticism.

Without a jumper KD is a nobody. Shooting is a skill. I have a great shot myself, better than most guards in the league, but I am not athletic enough to play in the league.

If Westbrook had my jumper he would be a top 5 pg all time even with his low IQ. Russ is a great athlete who lacks shooting skill. Shooting and athleticism are different things.

[iamgine]

lol this topic turn into "is Kevin Durant an elite athlete?" :lol

The term 'athlete' is quite subjective. Even more so the term 'elite'. And then we add variables like 'at his size'.

Just Kblaze doing the devil's work again.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Allen is taller than Durant. He is also stronger, faster and jumps higher. He is an effective NBA player without a jumper because of his size and athleticism.

Without a jumper KD is a nobody. Shooting is a skill. I have a great shot myself, better than most guards in the league, but I am not athletic enough to play in the league.

If Westbrook had my jumper he would be a top 5 pg all time even with his low IQ. Russ is a great athlete who lacks shooting skill. Shooting and athleticism are different things.

But the reason Allen is a complete stiff is because he wasn't born with the dexterity and body control that Durant was.

You act like Durant's the only guy to work on his ball handling and shooting. He's genetically gifted athletically which allows him to handle and shoot like a guard. Being a great shooter is mostly genetic. It's why no matter how hard Westbrick works he's not a good shooter. He wasn't born with it. Even if Durant wasn't a great shooter he'd still be incredibly long and quick for his size. He could still drive and score. He could still focus on defense and be elite on that end. He would absolutely be an NBA player. He's be Giannis basically.

[tontoz]

You still haven't answered why Jokic and Bird don't have any like Durant if they're just as tall and skilled. :oldlol:

It's so easy though..


Bird doesn't have the length of Durant. Both guys are slow and can't jump. But both guys do have plenty of dunks.

When you say they don't have any you are being a dumbass.




https://youtu.be/5rPl8_RTBHA

[Full Court]

You could argue that anyone who has made it into the NBA is an elite athlete.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Bird doesn't have the length of Durant. Both guys are slow and can't jump. But both guys do have plenty of dunks.

When you say they don't have any you are being a dumbass.




https://youtu.be/5rPl8_RTBHA
Length matters then when it comes to being an athlete, especially in sports... where we measure athleticism. Correct.


We were talking about posters like the gif I posted, not ordinary dunks. You know this and you're reaching.


lol @ saying Durant is slow. Good lord man. His foot speed for his size is ridiculous.

[tontoz]

But the reason Allen is a complete stiff is because he wasn't born with the dexterity and body control that Durant was.

You act like Durant's the only guy to work on his ball handling and shooting. He's genetically gifted athletically which allows him to handle and shoot like a guard. Being a great shooter is mostly genetic. It's why no matter how hard Westbrick works he's not a good shooter. He wasn't born with it.


So if it is so natural why does KD work so hard on it?





After nearly every practice, the Golden State Warriors opened the doors to their facility and offered a short window into what makes Kevin Durant so special.
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Despite ugly loss, Sixers are winners of Harden-Simmons trade —...
Opinion: Kevin Durant’s skill and work ethic with Warriors always deserved more attention
MARK MEDINA | USA TODAY | 9:30 am EST December 22, 2020


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SPORTSPULSE, USA TODAY
After nearly every practice, the Golden State Warriors opened the doors to their facility and offered a short window into what makes Kevin Durant so special.


On the near end of one of the practice courts, Durant and Stephen Curry would take shots at the basket that was most visible to reporters. There, Durant would show more than whether he could go shot for shot with Curry. Durant demonstrated his footwork. He showcased his post-up moves. He talked with coaches about subtle strategies.

Those moments partly explain how Durant remained one of the NBA’s best players and helped the Warriors win two titles and two Finals MVPs in three appearances. But it also captured the most memorable and relevant part of Durant’s three-year stint with the Warriors: his daily devotion to his craft ensured that all parties benefitted.

"The great ones bring the best out of you," Curry said. "Hopefully I did that for him in terms of pushing each other. You always are competing against other teams. But you’re kind of competing against yourselves when you’re in practice and doing shooting drills. That was a big part of our success with our energy and that pursuit of greatness every day. You see it up close and personal. You have no choice but to meet that level every day."





https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/columnist/mark-medina/2020/12/22/kevin-durant-skill-work-ethic-always-deserved-more-attention/4003686001/

Some guys aren't well schooled as kids and develop bad habits that are hard to break. Then you get guys like KD who develop good habits early and continue to work hard on their shot.

[AlternativeAcc.]

So if it is so natural why does KD work so hard on it?



https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/columnist/mark-medina/2020/12/22/kevin-durant-skill-work-ethic-always-deserved-more-attention/4003686001/

Some guys aren't well schooled as kids and develop bad habits that are hard to break. Then you get guys like KD who develop good habits early and continue to work hard on their shot.
Bro you're reaching very very hard. I never said he doesn't work. I'm saying his hard work translates to elite skill and west bricks doesn't because of the genetic component. This is basic stuff.

usually when you have Durant's height it comes at the expense of things like dexterity, body control, fluidity.... but not in Durant's case. And that's why he's a great athlete. That's why he has 100's of posters that smaller guys achieve once or twice in their careers.

[tontoz]

Length matters then when it comes to being an athlete, especially in sports... where we measure athleticism. Correct.


We were talking about posters like the gif I posted, not ordinary dunks. You know this and you're reaching.


lol @ saying Durant is slow. Good lord man. His foot speed for his size is ridiculous.


No it isn't. There. Is this thing called a stop watch you may or may not have heard of. It is used to measure speed

KD was slower than Horford, Bam, Allen and pretty much any reasonably athletic big in the league.

Mo Wagner is a nobody, a bench scrub playing with his more talented brother. Mo is taller and faster than Durant. There is absolutely nothing special about Durant's speed at his height. He is able to get by guys because of the threat of his jumper and ball handling skill.

Without his shooting and ball handling skills he is a nobody.

[AlternativeAcc.]

No it isn't. There. Is this thing called a stop watch you may or may not have heard of. It is used to measure speed

KD was slower than Horford, Bam, Allen and pretty much any reasonably athletic big in the league.

Mo Wagner is a nobody, a bench scrub playing with his more talented brother. Mo is taller and faster than Durant. There is absolutely nothing special about Durant's speed at his height.

Without his shooting and ball handling skills he is a nobody.

Without dexterity, hand-eye coordination, body control, and agility KD is nothing. Nice man


Too bad he has those things and 100's of posters that require him to put them all together and those other guys are stiffs without fluidity.

You're basing your entire argument on a straight line speed test when he was like 18? :roll:

Hilarious.

[AlternativeAcc.]

https://abcnews.go.com/Sports/kevin-durant-calls-nba-combine-waste-time-top/story?id=47338234

here's an article explaining Durant didn't give a single **** about the combine and didn't even try.

:lol

[MrFonzworth]

Durant was 19.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/the-great-debate-is-over-kevin-durant-finally-admitted-his-real-height/

He says he's 7 foot with shoes... 6'10" and 3 quarters without. Whatever. 6'11". He's taller than Horford are far more athletic overall.

You are a retard.

There has never been a player in NBA history that is 6'11" that can move with the ball like him. There's never been one at 6'10" that can move like him. He is 1 of 1.


Clearly he is not as overall athletic as Wilt, Shaq, etc... I am just saying. Throw in the jump shooting? Nobody else has ever had that. Ever.

General rule of thumb: more passionate this guy is about something, the more wrong he is. The autism is flowing through the seams

[tontoz]

https://abcnews.go.com/Sports/kevin-durant-calls-nba-combine-waste-time-top/story?id=47338234

here's an article explaining Durant didn't give a single **** about the combine and didn't even try.

:lol



Funny how you didn't actually quote the article. The actual article talks about the lifting part and his embarrassment about it.

It says nothing at all about him dogging it in other drills. I have seen KD and others run the floor for years. There is nothing special about KDs speed even when compared to other people his height. The stopwatch doest have any bias.

The only thing special about KD is what he can do with the ball in his hands. It is called skill.

If ball handling and shooting are athleticism then what exactly do you consider skills?:confusedshrug:

[AlternativeAcc.]

Funny how you didn't actually quote the article. The actual article talks about the lifting part and his embarrassment about it.

It says nothing at all about him dogging it in other drills. I have seen KD and others run the floor for years. There is nothing special about KDs speed even when compared to other people his height. The stopwatch doest have any bias.

The only thing special about KD is what he can do with the ball in his hands. It is called skill.

If ball handling and shooting are athleticism then what exactly do you consider skills?:confusedshrug:

He didn't care about the combine. That was the point. If the guy trained and focused and took the combine seriously his numbers would've been better. How do you not understand that? Guys before the NFL draft TRAIN for the 40... they train hard for it. There's a timing and skill aspect of it. They know scouts and GM's care about that shit. Durant didn't give a single **** though. And I've already mentioned several times that straight line speed and strength aren't everything. I already mentioned that skill and athleticism intertwine in basketball. It's not a black and white thing. You need certain athletic traits to develop certain skills. It's why west brick is a discombobulated bum and Irving isn't.


You think straight line speed and vertical jump = athleticism. You're wrong. Those are skills too(meaning there's a skill element to them) You can do a 20 week vertical jump program and gain 6-12 inches. I've done it before. Durant probably never trained it in his life because he never needed to. You can train to have a better 40. Durant never needed to. Your understanding of athleticism and the nuances of how they intertwine with skill is laughable and embarrassing.

[AlternativeAcc.]

I'm done with this convo. I have the footage on my side. You have the combine numbers. That settles it. Those guys on YouTube who dedicate themselves to their vertical jump are more athletic than Durant. :lol Have fun thinking that.

[tontoz]

He didn't care about the combine. That was the point. If the guy trained and focused and took the combine seriously his numbers would've been better. How do you not understand that? Guys before the NFL draft TRAIN for the 40... they train hard for it. There's a timing and skill aspect of it. They know scouts and GM's care about that shit. Durant didn't give a single **** though. And I've already mentioned several times that straight line speed and strength aren't everything. I already mentioned that skill and athleticism intertwine in basketball. It's not a black and white thing. You need certain athletic traits to develop certain skills. It's why west brick is a discombobulated bum and Irving isn't.


You think straight line speed and vertical jump = athleticism. You're wrong. Those are skills too(meaning there's a skill element to them) You can do a 20 week vertical jump program and gain 6-12 inches. I've done it before. Durant probably never trained it in his life because he never needed to. You can train to have a better 40. Durant never needed to. Your understanding of athleticism and the nuances of how they intertwine with skill is laughable and embarrassing.


So are you saying that as hard as KD worked his shooting he didn't work at all on his conditioning? Cool story bro.

I doubt he had spent any time in the weight room but he had no choice about running sprints. They are pretty much standard in any basketball practice.

There is a reason they test athleticism at the combine. It does matter. But you don't need great, or even good, athleticism to succeed in the NBA.

Jokic is a perfect example. He is slow and can't jump at all but dominates with size and skill. He is elite in both areas as is Durant.

Shooting isn't athleticism. If it is then we have to consider Steph a great athlete.

[ImKobe]

Shooting isn't athleticism. If it is then we have to consider Steph a great athlete.

Steph is a great athlete. Shooting is easy in practice but try running as much as Steph does off-ball to get all those looks from 3 every game. If it didn't require a ton of athletic ability, more players in the league would be able to do it. He's also the strongest player on the Warriors in the weight room IIRC.

[tontoz]

Steph is a great athlete. Shooting is easy in practice but try running as much as Steph does off-ball to get all those looks from 3 every game. If it didn't require a ton of athletic ability, more players in the league would be able to do it. He's also the strongest player on the Warriors in the weight room IIRC.

Running around off the ball and shooting are two different things. It takes a lot of stamina to do what Steph does and he probably needs to start cutting back on that at his age.

But not many people would consider Steph anywhere near the athlete that Westbrook is. Westbrook is stronger, faster and jumps higher. Maybe Steph has more stamina.

Steph takes shots that historically would be terrible shots for most guys but still makes them at a good rate because of his skill, not his athleticism.

His father played in the NBA so he was taught good form from the beginning and worked hard on it. No amount of training will make him as strong or fast as Westbrook.

[Kblaze8855]

I feel like maybe the combine numbers may need to take a backseat for some guys. They just don’t always reflect the reality of who a player is. Especially considering you might be 18 when you do it then workout for 20 years. Monta Ellis had a 30 inch vertical, was slower on the sprint than guys like Charlie V, Channing Frye, Chris Taft and fat ass Sean May, and couldn’t lift the 185 pounds once. In the nba he was going coast to coast and gliding over people like they weren’t there. He was flatly the worst athlete of his class in the final rankings. Not worst guard. Worst total player. He was flatly unathletic by the measurements. Steph is way more athletic than Monta by the numbers but go watch Montas career highlights and see how many of those dunks you ever saw Curry do. Hell by combine numbers Curry is a better leader than Andre Iguodala who only jumped an inch higher than Jj Reddick.

I don’t know what to tell you but those measurements just don’t always line up with reality.

Monta was literally the speed of a bigman, the strength of a 9th grader, and couldn’t jump with guys you have never seen dunk outside perfect fast break conditions. Then he’s maybe the fastest guy in the league and is taking off from the dotted banging on people.

Sometimes it’s just weird.

[Nanners]

I feel like maybe the combine numbers may need to take a backseat for some guys. They just don’t always reflect the reality of who a player is. Especially considering you might be 18 when you do it then workout for 20 years. Monta Ellis had a 30 inch vertical, was slower on the sprint than guys like Charlie V, Channing Frye, Chris Taft and fat ass Sean May, and couldn’t lift the 185 pounds once. In the nba he was going coast to coast and gliding over people like they weren’t there. He was flatly the worst athlete of his class in the final rankings. Not worst guard. Worst total player. He was flatly unathletic by the measurements. Steph is way more athletic than Monta by the numbers but go watch Montas career highlights and see how many of those dunks you ever saw Curry do. Hell by combine numbers Curry is a better leader than Andre Iguodala who only jumped an inch higher than Jj Reddick.

I don’t know what to tell you but those measurements just don’t always line up with reality.

Monta was literally the speed of a bigman, the strength of a 9th grader, and couldn’t jump with guys you have never seen dunk outside perfect fast break conditions. Then he’s maybe the fastest guy in the league and is taking off from the dotted banging on people.

Sometimes it’s just weird.

Totally agree... the only way to judge NBA athleticism is by watching the games, and a lot of NBA players dont really make sense. Charles Barkley was 6'6 and ~260-290 lbs and yet he was one of the best rebounders of all time and an absolute monster on fast breaks. Giannis was drafted 15th and was pretty forgettable in his first ~3 years in the league, now he is regarded as one of the greatest NBA athletes ever and he owns 2 of the top 4 single season PER ratings in all of NBA history (the other 2 are 2022 Jokic and 1962 Wilt)

[tontoz]

I feel like maybe the combine numbers may need to take a backseat for some guys. They just don’t always reflect the reality of who a player is. Especially considering you might be 18 when you do it then workout for 20 years. Monta Ellis had a 30 inch vertical, was slower on the sprint than guys like Charlie V, Channing Frye, Chris Taft and fat ass Sean May, and couldn’t lift the 185 pounds once. In the nba he was going coast to coast and gliding over people like they weren’t there. He was flatly the worst athlete of his class in the final rankings. Not worst guard. Worst total player. He was flatly unathletic by the measurements. Steph is way more athletic than Monta by the numbers but go watch Montas career highlights and see how many of those dunks you ever saw Curry do. Hell by combine numbers Curry is a better leader than Andre Iguodala who only jumped an inch higher than Jj Reddick.

I don’t know what to tell you but those measurements just don’t always line up with reality.

Monta was literally the speed of a bigman, the strength of a 9th grader, and couldn’t jump with guys you have never seen dunk outside perfect fast break conditions. Then he’s maybe the fastest guy in the league and is taking off from the dotted banging on people.

Sometimes it’s just weird.


There have been thousands of guys passing through the combine. Ellis is that rare guy whose results don't match what showed up on the court. Maybe he wasn't healthy at the time or maybe he was dogging it. Whatever happened he is an anomaly and isn't really noteworthy when judging the combine as a whole.

Iggy had a standing reach of 8'9.5". Redick had a standing reach of 8'1.5". Stephs was 8'1". So Iggy has an 8" advantage on them. And Iggy tested well in the sprint and lane agility.


Without the ball in his hands there is nothing about KD's athleticism that stands out. He has two elite traits, length and skill. His standing reach of 9'2" is good for a center. You could say his bball IQ is elite as well but again that has nothing to do with athleticism.

[dirkdiggler41]

Tracy McGrady


We never really saw it because how he played, but Ben Gordon was very athletic. 37.5 vertical leap

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OK9zOH4LCcM

[tpols]

Skills and athleticism intertwine though. His dexterity and body coordination is why he's able to handle like a guard and bam can't. Bam is stronger. Durant is athletically way more fluid.

https://media.balls.ie/uploads/2012/06/KDUNK.gif



Why doesn't Bird or jokic have highlights like this if they have size and skill like Durant?

Yea I don't think people understand how rare it is for a 7 foot long player to move with elite guard fluidity. Imagine a stiff like say Porzingis if he could move how KD moves. That's a special type of athleticism.

Even if he was a below average shooter Durant could be a 15 ppg player just driving the rim and running in transition. I remember with the warriors he was unreal in transition and on the thunder he used to just posterize centers.


https://youtu.be/X1J3nZH8RRs

[tontoz]

It isn't hard to dunk when you can almost touch the rim by standing on your toes. It would be a lot harder to get to the rim if guys didn't have to honor his jumper.

[tpols]

“Athlete” typically means attributes that will translate to a variety of sports, not just specialization for one.

Picture Durant trying to run after the catch in football. Or doing a 50m hurdles. Or swinging a baseball bat.

Does anyone really think Durant would be among the top NBA players in other athletic disciplines?

Not even close.

Hes built perfectly for basketball. But it isnt bc hes an elite athlete.

If you're 7 feet tall your pretty much excluded from football, baseball, hockey and soccer. Has there ever been a 7 foot player in any of those leagues in history? Not that I know of.

But for basketball height matters a ton. Is height a skill? Not to me... Its a physical trait tied to athleticism. If you're 7 feet tall and have super mobility that's going to put you at a distinct advantage over everybody you go at. Durant blinks by people from a stand still position in a way other 7 footers can't. How do you accurately measure in game first step quickness? Never seen a 7 footer with that quickness.

[tpols]

It isn't hard to dunk when you can almost touch the rim by standing on your toes. It would be a lot harder to get to the rim if guys didn't have to honor his jumper.

Is height a skill? You're just making the other sides case here. He was taking off from well outside the semi circle.

[tontoz]

If you're 7 feet tall your pretty much excluded from football, baseball, hockey and soccer. Has there ever been a 7 foot player in any of those leagues in history? Not that I know of.

But for basketball height matters a ton. Is height a skill? Not to me... Its a physical trait tied to athleticism. If you're 7 feet tall and have super mobility that's going to put you at a distinct advantage over everybody you go at. Durant blinks by people from a stand still position in a way other 7 footers can't. How do you accurately measure in game first step quickness? Never seen a 7 footer with that quickness.

:


You haven't watched much basketball then. Just as one example Bam is far quicker than Durant but it is hard for him to get to the rim because defenders give him space letting him shoot.

No defender wants to give an open jumper to Durant.

[tpols]

:


You haven't watched much basketball then. Just as one example Bam is far quicker than Durant but it is hard for him to get to the rim because defenders give him space letting him shoot.

No defender wants to give an open jumper to Durant.

That's Bullshit. I can pull up the tape or anybody can just watch it on YouTube. Defenders absolutely close out hard on Bam he's a good shooter at the 4 or 5. He just doesn't have Durants blow by ability or length for finishing around the rim.

[tontoz]

That's Bullshit. I can pull up the tape or anybody can just watch it on YouTube. Defenders absolutely close out hard on Bam he's a good shooter at the 4 or 5. He just doesn't have Durants blow by ability or length for finishing around the rim.

This season Bam is shooting 38.5% from 10-16 feet, 30.5% from 16 - 3pg and 14% from 3 yet somehow you think he is a good shooter? What would you consider a bad shooter?

[tpols]

This season Bam is shooting 38.5% from 10-16 feet, 30.5% from 16 - 3pg and 14% from 3 yet somehow you think he is a good shooter? What would you consider a bad shooter?

Bam shot 46% 10-16 ft and 39% 16-3pt last year. Those are very good splits. I think Dirk used to shoot like high 40s from midrange so that is very good actually. You haven't watched the Heat if you think defenders give him any room or sag. He gets defenders right in his shirt. But Bam doesn't have as quick a first step or last step and doesn't have additional freak length for finishing at the rim as KD.

[tontoz]

Bam shot 46% 10-16 ft and 39% 16-3pt last year. Those are very good splits. I think Dirk used to shoot like high 40s from midrange so that is very good actually. You haven't watched the Heat if you think defenders give him any room or sag. He gets defenders right in his shirt. But Bam doesn't have as quick a first step or last step and doesn't have additional freak length for finishing at the rim as KD.

Ever heard of YouTube? :lol

Guys play off him all the time and this was last year, his career best as a shooter.




https://youtu.be/n14LaQlAizc

[tpols]

The video shows that defenders contest his midrange but not on 3s. His jumpshooting splits were still elite.

And that footage only reaffirmed the fact that Durant is far faster with the ball in his hand slashing than Bam is.

https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/fetch/c_fill,g_auto,f_auto,h_315,w_546/https%3A%2F%2Ffansided.com%2Fwp-content%2Fblogs.dir%2F229%2Ffiles%2F2013%2F11%2Fke vindurantvincecarter.gif

Its not really close. Bam can't move like that with the ball in his hands. I don't care what his cone time is.

[Shogon]

Yea I don't think people understand how rare it is for a 7 foot long player to move with elite guard fluidity. Imagine a stiff like say Porzingis if he could move how KD moves. That's a special type of athleticism.

Even if he was a below average shooter Durant could be a 15 ppg player just driving the rim and running in transition. I remember with the warriors he was unreal in transition and on the thunder he used to just posterize centers.


https://youtu.be/X1J3nZH8RRs

Bro it's not just "rare." That's severely underselling it.

There is nobody else in league history at 6'11"+ that can move AND handle the ball AND shoot like that.

NOBODY.

Shaq and Wilt are probably the two biggest athletic freaks in league history and neither one of them could even come close to moving their bodies like that and handling the ball with that level of coordination.

[John_Connor]

durant. duh.


next

[3ba11]

https://i.makeagif.com/media/2-23-2022/ko7RJp.gif

[tpols]

Bro it's not just "rare." That's severely underselling it.

There is nobody else in league history at 6'11"+ that can move AND handle the ball AND shoot like that.

NOBODY.

Shaq and Wilt are probably the two biggest athletic freaks in league history and neither one of them could even come close to moving their bodies like that and handling the ball with that level of coordination.

I know it was only number 10 but look at that first play. He hunts down the chase down block, rebounds the ball and dribbles smoothly coast to coast past nearly everybody and takes off from behind the 2nd semi circle.

The only athlete I've ever seen that could do some shit like that is Giannis and LeBron. Maybe David Robinson too.

[Kblaze8855]

I feel like it’s just weird to throw out the size and frame of people when we have these rankings. Like….Ralph Sampson. If he’s 6’6” is he considered a special athlete? Probably not. Ok maybe. Not exceptional. He’s got like a 33 inch vertical and a bird chest I can’t imagine benched much. But moving like this at 7”2-4?





https://thumbs.gfycat.com/IdioticColorlessCutworm-size_restricted.gif




https://thumbs.gfycat.com/OblongOrdinaryFrog-size_restricted.gif





Now he’s the most valuable prospect in history.

This feels like tossing out that a lineman is 360 when he runs a 4.8 40 because some guys run 4.3. People of some frames aren’t supposed to do some things.

I don’t think Durant is all skills. It’s skills plus a really uncommon mobility for a 7 footer. I never heard anyone dispute that till now. ISH surprises me at times. A discrepancy as wide as this is unusual. Bad athlete to elite. Not bad to ok. Some saying elite. One saying downright bad. Average at the very best.

We are a weird group. And by “we” I kinda just mean humans. Being this far apart on such a thing is funny to me. We all see the same guy for 15 years and come to such opposite conclusions.

[tontoz]

From the video.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20220328-115039.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20220328-115141.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20220328-115233.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20220328-115346.jpg

[tontoz]

I think I see a pattern here

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20220328-115423(1).jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20220328-115511.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20220328-115523.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20220328-115556.jpg

[3ba11]

Durant's uniqueness is his quickness with a live dribble at that size - complete unprecedented

That's what separates him from anyone else his size that tries to dribble, like say Chet Holmgren - everyone is a wannabe because they lack Durant's goat talent.. Durant was on his way to being the next MJ by winning with Westbrook in 2012, but he was robbed by a colluder

[tontoz]

I feel like it’s just weird to throw out the size and frame of people when we have these rankings. Like….Ralph Sampson. If he’s 6’6” is he considered a special athlete? Probably not. Ok maybe. Not exceptional. He’s got like a 33 inch vertical and a bird chest I can’t imagine benched much. But moving like this at 7”2-4?





https://thumbs.gfycat.com/IdioticColorlessCutworm-size_restricted.gif




https://thumbs.gfycat.com/OblongOrdinaryFrog-size_restricted.gif





Now he’s the most valuable prospect in history.

This feels like tossing out that a lineman is 360 when he runs a 4.8 40 because some guys run 4.3. People of some frames aren’t supposed to do some things.

I don’t think Durant is all skills. It’s skills plus a really uncommon mobility for a 7 footer. I never heard anyone dispute that till now. ISH surprises me at times. A discrepancy as wide as this is unusual. Bad athlete to elite. Not bad to ok. Some saying elite. One saying downright bad. Average at the very best.

We are a weird group. And by “we” I kinda just mean humans. Being this far apart on such a thing is funny to me. We all see the same guy for 15 years and come to such opposite conclusions.


Do you think Durant is faster than Bam/Horford/Allen/Capella/Wood?

I don't.

Do you think he jumps higher than any of them? I don't.

Is he stronger thany any of them? Nope

But he is better than all of them because of his skills.

[HoopsNY]

Bro it's not just "rare." That's severely underselling it.

There is nobody else in league history at 6'11"+ that can move AND handle the ball AND shoot like that.

NOBODY.

Shaq and Wilt are probably the two biggest athletic freaks in league history and neither one of them could even come close to moving their bodies like that and handling the ball with that level of coordination.

Right, but dribbling and shooting are not part of athleticism. Sure, KD has the ability to move, but that's just a small part of athleticism. tontoz has a point, his strength, speed, leaping abilities, etc are not great. Above average? Sure if we're talking in totality. Too many people are conflating skills with athleticism here.

[Shogon]

Right, but dribbling and shooting are not part of athleticism. Sure, KD has the ability to move, but that's just a small part of athleticism. tontoz has a point, his strength, speed, leaping abilities, etc are not great. Above average? Sure if we're talking in totality. Too many people are conflating skills with athleticism here.


Yes, they are. Your problem is you think athleticism only consists of strength, speed and vertical leap. This is false.

Look it up.


www.google.com

[red1]

Ray Allen and Vince Carter


Carter is very underrated as a shooter. Hit 9 threes in a big playoff game against the sixers before players were even attempting that many threes.

[tontoz]

Yes, they are. Your problem is you think athleticism only consists of strength, speed and vertical leap. This is false.

Look it up.


www.google.com

No the problem is that you dont understand a guy can't be an elite athlete if he is weak and has only average speed/jumping ability.

[iamgine]

One guy itt think dribbling and shooting is part of athleticism. :lol

Explains a lot.

[FultzNationRISE]

The video shows that defenders contest his midrange but not on 3s. His jumpshooting splits were still elite.

And that footage only reaffirmed the fact that Durant is far faster with the ball in his hand slashing than Bam is.

https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/fetch/c_fill,g_auto,f_auto,h_315,w_546/https%3A%2F%2Ffansided.com%2Fwp-content%2Fblogs.dir%2F229%2Ffiles%2F2013%2F11%2Fke vindurantvincecarter.gif

Its not really close. Bam can't move like that with the ball in his hands. I don't care what his cone time is.

I think thats the whole point.

Moving like that WITH the ball in your hands is considered a skill, rather than “pure athleticism.”

Nobody is debating Durant having the superior skill. And shooting is also a skill. So if we’re taking athleticism to include the totality of skills, which IS one feasible way to interpret it, then OPs question would make no sense. Youd just ask who the best shooter is, since shooting is also an athletic skill so the greatest shooter would be an elite athlete.

The wording of OPs question clearly IMPLIES we’re talking about raw, olympic-wrestler type athleticism, combined with shooting.

Thats how I see it anyway. But obviously everything about this whole discussion is widely subjective.

[Kblaze8855]

Do you think Durant is faster than Bam/Horford/Allen/Capella/Wood?

I don't.

Do you think he jumps higher than any of them? I don't.

Is he stronger thany any of them? Nope

But he is better than all of them because of his skills.

Feel like we might be able to make this simple. Do you differentiate between basketball skills and athletic coordination? Do you think being a giant stiff is purely a matter of skill? That if you take someone like Nuggets Mutombo and make them dribble all day for two years they could move like Kevin Durant?

[Pointguard]

Ray Allen and Vince Carter


Carter is very underrated as a shooter. Hit 9 threes in a big playoff game against the sixers before players were even attempting that many threes.

Yes. This. Vince more the athlete while Allen was more the shooter. Allen at the college level it seemed like he was going to be a 20 ppg athletic slasher. I was really shocked when I saw him live in Uconn. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uo0Kvj8rN2I .

[FultzNationRISE]

Feel like we might be able to make this simple. Do you differentiate between basketball skills and athletic coordination? Do you think being a giant stiff is purely a matter of skill? That if you take someone like Nuggets Mutombo and make them dribble all day for two years they could move like Kevin Durant?

A few months ago we had a very similar discussion and I was arguing that guys like Nash and CP3 are great athletes because I consider anything physically coordinated to be part of athleticism. Which is the same case many are making for Durant here. Personally I consider things like being a strong golfer to be a type of athleticism, even tho some differentiate it purely as a “skill.”

But based on the wording of your question, SEPARATING shooting (a skill) from athleticism, I interpreted this to mean “raw” athleticism that you can judge by watching guys run, jump, and move. And I do not consider Durant to be an elite NBA player in that regard, even for his height.

[tontoz]

Feel like we might be able to make this simple. Do you differentiate between basketball skills and athletic coordination? Do you think being a giant stiff is purely a matter of skill? That if you take someone like Nuggets Mutombo and make them dribble all day for two years they could move like Kevin Durant?


Deke is actually a great example. He was my favorite player with the Hawks and I watched him for years.

With the ball in his hands he was shackled. He was a slow, plodding goof. It was painful to watch at times.

On defense he was a different guy, covering the paint with surprisingly quickness to contest shots. He could go from one block to the other so quickly it really looked like a different person.

His ball skills just sucked and I doubt any amount of work would make him good.

I would say flexibility is part of athleticism, just not as important in bball as it is in other sports like football or MMA.

[tpols]

Right, but dribbling and shooting are not part of athleticism. Sure, KD has the ability to move, but that's just a small part of athleticism. tontoz has a point, his strength, speed, leaping abilities, etc are not great. Above average? Sure if we're talking in totality. Too many people are conflating skills with athleticism here.

Theres a certain thing to be said for having as long strides and steps as Durant has and his crossover speed. How do you measure that? Upper body speed. Bam and Horford look downright clunky and slow dribbling the ball while Durant is taller longer, and still moves like water. Quicker longer strides and moves by a lot. You can't capture that running cone drills. Anyone who thinks Kevin Durant is a below average athlete automatically gets their basketball card revoked. Its just beyond ridiculous.


https://youtu.be/QsjBV9kO2ls

Below average athlete. Yup.

[tontoz]

Theres a certain thing to be said for having as long strides and steps as Durant has and his crossover speed. How do you measure that? Upper body speed. Bam and Horford look downright clunky and slow dribbling the ball while Durant is taller longer, and still moves like water. Quicker longer strides and moves by a lot. You can't capture that running cone drills. Anyone who thinks Kevin Durant is a below average athlete automatically gets their basketball card revoked. Its just beyond ridiculous.


https://youtu.be/QsjBV9kO2ls

Below average athlete. Yup.

The key issue in that vid is something you don't even notice. The defender is literally outside the 3 point line to contest a possible jumper.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20220328-123516.jpg


Compare that to the defense on Bam

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20220328-115346.jpg

[HoopsNY]

Yes, they are. Your problem is you think athleticism only consists of strength, speed and vertical leap. This is false.

Look it up.


www.google.com

Well, no. Agility is part of it too, which I guess KD has to a greater extent. However, that doesn't undo everything else. And no, shooting and dribbling aren't athleticism. Maybe the definition has changed, but certainly wasn't part of it for as long as I've known it.

[tpols]

I think thats the whole point.

Moving like that WITH the ball in your hands is considered a skill, rather than “pure athleticism.”

Nobody is debating Durant having the superior skill. And shooting is also a skill. So if we’re taking athleticism to include the totality of skills, which IS one feasible way to interpret it, then OPs question would make no sense. Youd just ask who the best shooter is, since shooting is also an athletic skill so the greatest shooter would be an elite athlete.

The wording of OPs question clearly IMPLIES we’re talking about raw, olympic-wrestler type athleticism, combined with shooting.

Thats how I see it anyway. But obviously everything about this whole discussion is widely subjective.

Durant isn't a fancy dribbler dude. He's got a super quick crossover most 7 footers don't have and has a crazy first step and long strides after it. He's not And1'ing dudes down kyrie style with a sick handle. Hes simply running right past them lol.

[HoopsNY]

Theres a certain thing to be said for having as long strides and steps as Durant has and his crossover speed. How do you measure that? Upper body speed. Bam and Horford look downright clunky and slow dribbling the ball while Durant is taller longer, and still moves like water. Quicker longer strides and moves by a lot. You can't capture that running cone drills. Anyone who thinks Kevin Durant is a below average athlete automatically gets their basketball card revoked. Its just beyond ridiculous.


https://youtu.be/QsjBV9kO2ls

Below average athlete. Yup.

I agree with you, but that just speaks to agility. I don't think it trumps everything else. This is basically turning into what do you weigh more in the athletic discussion.

[Kblaze8855]

I’d say a skill is something you can learn. I don’t think Dikembe Mutombo could just learn to move like Kevin Durant moves.


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/BravePitifulKusimanse-size_restricted.gif





I don’t think there’s a drill or workout that gives a 7 foot stiff his mobility.

You can learn to shoot. You can learn to handle the ball. You can’t learn to move can you? Either you can or you cant. You can train speed and hops…but natural fluidity and coordination?

I don’t know about that….


Are coordination and agility mental to you?

[tpols]

I agree with you, but that just speaks to agility. I don't think it trumps everything else. This is basically turning into what do you weigh more in the athletic discussion.

When somebody has that freakish of a combo of agility and quickness at 7 feet long wingspan it becomes unfair. Agility and quickness and height are the most important athletic / physical attributes in basketball. Strength is probably the least important when your dealing with a largely finesse game. In the 80s there was debate that too much weight training and bulk is actually bad for your game. Where as in football strength would be perhaps the most important. If were talking for basketball Durant definitely checks off the elite box.

[FultzNationRISE]

Durant isn't a fancy dribbler dude. He's got a super quick crossover most 7 footers don't have and has a crazy first step and long strides after it. He's not And1'ing dudes down kyrie style with a sick handle. Hes simply running right past them lol.

Which I concede is nice and Im not saying Durant is an unathletic person. Compared to the general pop he’s elite.

But so is Dirk (as shown in a recent kblaze gif):

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/SmartRespectfulBackswimmer-size_restricted.gif

Kendrick Perkins sure aint backing Bruce Bowen down off the dribble then finishing with his left in traffic. And Perkins was an NBA player. By that standard, Dirk is also an elite athlete. So maybe he’s the answer here?

But we all know that if youre talking “elite athleticism” you have guys like Bron, Shaq, Jordan, Wilt etc. plus guys like Adrian Peterson, Gronk, and other freaks of nature.

Kevin Durant is relatively average as an athletic specimen, by PROFESSIONAL standards. Hes honestly not much different from Dirk. His main advantages are height, a solid handle, and a deadly shot. Not some broadly applicable freakish athleticism.

[tontoz]

I’d say a skill is something you can learn. I don’t think Dikembe Mutombo could just learn to move like Kevin Durant moves.


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/BravePitifulKusimanse-size_restricted.gif





I don’t think there’s a drill or workout that gives a 7 foot stiff his mobility.

You can learn to shoot. You can learn to handle the ball. You can’t learn to move can you? Either you can or you cant. You can train speed and hops…but natural fluidity and coordination?

I don’t know about that….


Are coordination and agility mental to you?


Coordination and agility are part of athleticism but when talking about elite athletes they have that in addition to strength/speed/hops. You cant say that someone is so agile that it doesn't matter he is weak.

The key part of that vid is missing. It is the part where the defender is up tightly on KD to try to contest a possible 3.

It is amusing to see you guys keep posting dunking vids as if that is noteworthy for a guy whose standing reach is only 10" below the rim.

[Shogon]

So KD is an average athlete right?

So by this thought process, anyone his height and above should be able to move like he does and shoot like he does with enough hard work, right?

That's the thought now? That's the contention... glad to see this thread is progressing in a sensible direction.

[FultzNationRISE]

Coordination and agility are part of athleticism but when talking about elite athletes they have that in addition to strength/speed/hops. You cant say that someone is so agile that it doesn't matter he is weak.

The key part of that vid is missing. It is the part where the defender is up tightly on KD to try to contest a possible 3.

It is amusing to see you guys keep posting dunking vids as if that is noteworthy for a guy whose standing reach is only 10" below the rim.


Not to mention blowing by Peja Stojakovic is hardly a feat worth celebrating.

[FultzNationRISE]

So KD is an average athlete right?

So by this thought process, anyone his height and above should be able to move like he does and shoot like he does with enough hard work, right?

That's the thought now? That's the contention... glad to see this thread is progressing in a sensible direction.

By NBA standards, yeah.

NBA players are already elite athletes.

KD is not elite among the elite.

That would be Lebron James, and even some guys who suck like Westbrook and others, are better GENERAL ATHLETES than Kevin Durant.

He’s not an elite athlete within the NBA based on the implied definition of this question.

[tpols]

Which I concede is nice and Im not saying Durant is an unathletic person. Compared to the general pop he’s elite.

But so is Dirk (as shown in a recent kblaze gif):

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/SmartRespectfulBackswimmer-size_restricted.gif

Kendrick Perkins sure aint backing Bruce Bowen down off the dribble then finishing with his left in traffic. And Perkins was an NBA player. By that standard, Dirk is also an elite athlete. So maybe he’s the answer here?

But we all know that if youre talking “elite athleticism” you have guys like Bron, Shaq, Jordan, Wilt etc. plus guys like Adrian Peterson, Gronk, and other freaks of nature.

Kevin Durant is relatively average as an athletic specimen, by PROFESSIONAL standards. Hes honestly not much different from Dirk. His main advantages are height, a solid handle, and a deadly shot. Not some broadly applicable freakish athleticism.

Bro if you think Dirk and Durant have the same level of athleticism I dont know what to tell you. Look at all the gifs posted in here of Durant s top dunks and floor running plays. Dirk just didn't do that. He doesn't even come close. Even in your gif... like bro... THAT gif of Dirk was your athleticism argument?

:biggums:

[tontoz]

So KD is an average athlete right?

So by this thought process, anyone his height and above should be able to move like he does and shoot like he does with enough hard work, right?

That's the thought now? That's the contention... glad to see this thread is progressing in a sensible direction.


It is ironic to see a take that dumb from someone who is constantly insulting everyone's intelligence.

We are comparing KD's athleticism to other NBA players not the general population.

[tontoz]

Not to mention blowing by Peja Stojakovic is hardly a feat worth celebrating.

:oldlol:

I didn't even notice that.

[Kblaze8855]

It’s 10 inches below the rim for a lot of people who can’t or don’t do it. Guys that size tend to be stiffs and I’m not sure they can skill themselves out of it. Durant with the coordination of Mutombo can’t be what he is. His coordination and agility do more for him than bigger muscles would. It’s such a big part of his game I’m not sure how we downplay it. If he could jump higher but his body moved like the Tinman stiffs we have all seen he’d look a lot less athletic.

[tontoz]

It’s 10 inches below the rim for a lot of people who can’t or don’t do it. Guys that size tend to be stiffs and I’m not sure they can skill themselves out of it. Durant with the coordination of Mutombo can’t be what he is. His coordination and agility do more for him than bigger muscles would. It’s such a big part of his game I’m not sure how we downplay it. If he could jump higher but his body moved like the Tinman stiffs we have all seen he’d look a lot less athletic.


His coordination and agility wouldnt amount to a hill of beans without his jumper. If guys played off him the way they play off Bam he would be a nobody. He would struggle beating anyone off the dribble if they didn't have to worry about his jumper.

[Round Mound]

Jordan, Kobe and Durant...probably

[Kblaze8855]

His coordination and agility wouldnt amount to a hill of beans without his jumper. If guys played off him the way they play off Bam he would be a nobody. He would struggle beating anyone off the dribble if they didn't have to worry about his jumper.


Kevin Durant with a normal jumper would be something like Lamar Odom. Lamar shot under 30% from 3 in his best scoring season and 74% from the line. Should be sufficiently bad for you. He was still a somebody. Being that size and that coordinated makes you probably 1 in a hundred million?

How many have there ever really been?

Durant, Odom, Kukoc maybe….

And by all accounts he’s actually the tallest of them despite your insistence on using combine heights that contradict proven reports of people still growing at 18. Giannis is taller than his combine size too. And like most who train for years is larger, stronger, and possibly faster. KD is obviously no Giannis but he’s also obviously a much more refined athlete than he was at 18-19 as a college freshman.

Id be surprised if there have been 10 people his height as coordinated and agile as he is and that’s always been a factor in these things. You wanna bottom line it and throw out usual body type limitations a lot of people have to come off the list. But we don’t. We marvel as Shaq because he looked like a mountain tap dancing when most his size move like a sky scraper with legs.

Its a factor. A giant one. It always has been.

[tontoz]

Kevin Durant with a normal jumper would be something like Lamar Odom. Lamar shot under 30% from 3 in his best scoring season and 74% from the line. Should be sufficiently bad for you. He was still a somebody. Being that size and that coordinated makes you probably 1 in a hundred million?

How many have there ever really been?

Durant, Odom, Kukoc maybe….

And by all accounts he’s actually the tallest of them despite your insistence on using combine heights that contradict proven reports of people still growing at 18. Giannis is taller than his combine size too. And like most who train for years is larger, stronger, and possibly faster. KD is obviously no Giannis but he’s also obviously a much more refined athlete than he was at 18-19 as a college freshman.

Id be surprised if there have been 10 people his height as coordinated and agile as he is and that’s always been a factor in these things. You wanna bottom line it and throw out usual body type limitations a lot of people have to come off the list. But we don’t. We marvel as Shaq because he looked like a mountain tap dancing when most his size move like a sky scraper with legs.

Its a factor. A giant one. It always has been.


I obviously exaggerated about him being a nobody. Right now he is an ATG. without a jumper he is just a guy. Kukoc is a good comparison. Odom isn't because Odom wasnt weak af.

What would happen if Durant tried to defend Giannis for an entire game? His agility and fluidity would mean absolutely nothing as Giannis dunked on him over and over and over. There is literally nothing Durant could do to stop Giannis from dunking other than scream for help from his teammates. Giannis would destroy him because he is so superior athletically.

[Kblaze8855]

So Giannis can dunk on him at will but chooses to take all these fadeaways and hooks?



https://youtu.be/rOEhtFGPdAU

Even if he could hypothetically dunk every time it’s clear he wouldn’t….when he already doesn’t. Durant would guard him like anyone else it would just be stupid to expose him to that much potential foul trouble.

Not that it matters. Two freaks not being able to guard each other doesn’t make either one of them a normal human.

And you obviously have not put an end to anything. KDs name keeps coming up from new posters in here. Seems people have been watching him for too long to be much swayed by your thoughts.

[warriorfan]

If you're 7 feet tall your pretty much excluded from football, baseball, hockey and soccer. Has there ever been a 7 foot player in any of those leagues in history? Not that I know of.

But for basketball height matters a ton. Is height a skill? Not to me... Its a physical trait tied to athleticism. If you're 7 feet tall and have super mobility that's going to put you at a distinct advantage over everybody you go at. Durant blinks by people from a stand still position in a way other 7 footers can't. How do you accurately measure in game first step quickness? Never seen a 7 footer with that quickness.

Randy Johnson wasn’t 7 feet but was very close. Your point still stands though.

[Shogon]

By NBA standards, yeah.

NBA players are already elite athletes.

KD is not elite among the elite.

That would be Lebron James, and even some guys who suck like Westbrook and others, are better GENERAL ATHLETES than Kevin Durant.

He’s not an elite athlete within the NBA based on the implied definition of this question.

Right so anyone in the NBA that is 6'11" and above should be able to handle the ball and shoot the ball like KD, given enough practice, right? Right. Yeah, glad to see we're making some progress here.

[Shogon]

So Giannis can dunk on him at will but chooses to take all these fadeaways and hooks?



https://youtu.be/rOEhtFGPdAU

Even if he could hypothetically dunk every time it’s clear he wouldn’t….when he already doesn’t. Durant would guard him like anyone else it would just be stupid to expose him to that much potential foul trouble.

Not that it matters. Two freaks not being able to guard each other doesn’t make either one of them a normal human.

And you obviously have not put an end to anything. KDs name keeps coming up from new posters in here. Seems people have been watching him for too long to be much swayed by your thoughts.

I watched half of the video you linked and I saw Durant drive past Giannis quite a few times and yet Giannis was not able to cleanly get around Durant not even once... I guess that makes sense since Durant is just an average athlete and Giannis is such an incredible one. That's a logical outcome, right? The average athlete getting past the elite one and the elite one not getting past the average one. Yes. Makes sense.

[tontoz]

So Giannis can dunk on him at will but chooses to take all these fadeaways and hooks?



https://youtu.be/rOEhtFGPdAU

Even if he could hypothetically dunk every time it’s clear he wouldn’t….when he already doesn’t. Durant would guard him like anyone else it would just be stupid to expose him to that much potential foul trouble.

Not that it matters. Two freaks not being able to guard each other doesn’t make either one of them a normal human.

And you obviously have not put an end to anything. KDs name keeps coming up from new posters in here. Seems people have been watching him for too long to be much swayed by your thoughts.

SMH

The only reason Giannis doesnt dunk on him literally every time is because KD has help. Giannis knows that other defenders will converge whenever he gets close to the rim. There is nothing KD can to do stop him from dunking but obviously the team can do something about it.

If they played 1 on 1 what could KD possibly do to stop Giannis from dunking? Absolutely nothing. KD would score with his array of moves because of his greater skills but Giannis would dunk on him routinely because of his superior athleticism.

Strength is a big part of athleticism. One of the weakest players in the league isn't an elite athlete no matter how good he is with the ball in his hands.

[Kblaze8855]

Oh so when you said he’d dunk every time if he guarded him in a game you wanted me not to consider what happened when he guarded him in games. You just keep sounding more and more reasonable I must say.

[tontoz]

Oh so when you said he’d dunk every time if he guarded him in a game you wanted me not to consider what happened when he guarded him in games. You just keep sounding more and more reasonable I must say.

Yeah i was thinking of them going 1 on 1. Obviously that isn't going to happen in a game. In a game what happens is this....

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20220329-091658.jpg


because Durant's team knows what will happen if they don't help.

[GimmeThat]

Oh so when you said he’d dunk every time if he guarded him in a game you wanted me not to consider what happened when he guarded him in games. You just keep sounding more and more reasonable I must say.

when you see a bird, you just see them chirp and make noises, that's what's happening here.

[Akeem34TheDream]

Oh so when you said he’d dunk every time if he guarded him in a game you wanted me not to consider what happened when he guarded him in games. You just keep sounding more and more reasonable I must say.

:roll:

[bizil]

For me, I think KD and Ray Allen fit the bill. When u look at the all time great shooter-scorer type guys you got KD, Ray, Steph, Bird, Price, Nash, Dirk, Reggie, and Klay for example. Ray and KD are the ONLY ONES of that group I would call an elite athlete. I wouldn't call EITHER a freak athlete. But they qualify for AT LEAST being an elite-very good athlete.

[bizil]

A player we haven't seen come down the pike yet is a Steph-Ja Morant type of hybrid. The best shooter at the PG COMBINED with ultimate freak athletic ability. Or back in the day, we NEVER saw anything close to a MJ-Reggie hybrid scoring wise. Or a Bird-Nique type of thing. Or a KD-Giannis hybrid at that size. So basically we've NEVER seem a true legendary sharpshooter scorer type who was ALSO legendary for his freak athletic ability.

So it comes down to the LEGENDARY sharpshooter like Ray and KD. Who are very athletic (basketball wise) in general. BUT not freakish athletes. OR u gotta pick from the legendary freak athletes like MJ, Kobe, Nique, Drexler, Vince, Wade, T Mac, etc. And realize NONE OF THEM were noted for legendary sharpshooting from downtown. So for me, I'll go the KD-Ray route.

[Baller789]

A player we haven't seen come down the pike yet is a Steph-Ja Morant type of hybrid. The best shooter at the PG COMBINED with ultimate freak athletic ability. Or back in the day, we NEVER saw anything close to a MJ-Reggie hybrid scoring wise. Or a Bird-Nique type of thing. Or a KD-Giannis hybrid at that size. So basically we've NEVER seem a true legendary sharpshooter scorer type who was ALSO legendary for his freak athletic ability.

So it comes down to the LEGENDARY sharpshooter like Ray and KD. Who are very athletic (basketball wise) in general. BUT not freakish athletes. OR u gotta pick from the legendary freak athletes like MJ, Kobe, Nique, Drexler, Vince, Wade, T Mac, etc. And realize NONE OF THEM were noted for legendary sharpshooting from downtown. So for me, I'll go the KD-Ray route.

Well it depends if you would require the shooter to be a 3 point shooter.

[FKAri]

Well it depends if you would require the shooter to be a 3 point shooter.

If not then the answer is easily MJ.

[MannyO]

Dame DOLLA

[bizil]

If not then the answer is easily MJ.

Right! If you take out the three ball aspect, it's EASILY MJ as the answer. The ultimate freak athlete COMBINED the best midrange game EVER!

[bizil]

Well it depends if you would require the shooter to be a 3 point shooter.

When I hear the term SHOOTER, I think of guys who are shooter-scorer types. So guys who are KNOWN to be long range snipers. If three point shooting ISN'T a factor at all, then MJ is the EASY ANSWER for this thread. SO MUCH SO it wouldn't even be WORTH making a thread.

[Baller789]

When I hear the term SHOOTER, I think of guys who are shooter-scorer types. So guys who are KNOWN to be long range snipers. If three point shooting ISN'T a factor at all, then MJ is the EASY ANSWER for this thread. SO MUCH SO it wouldn't even be WORTH making a thread.

I hear ya.

But there's also the issue of the player is a good 3 point shooter but a bad/subpar free throw shooter. Because they do exist. Of the top of my head, Bruce Bowen.

Or if the the player is pretty good at 3's but meh at mids like Harden I think, or at least isn't really part of their games.

Not saying that they qualify for the freak athlete part. but just the shooter part.

[sbw19]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPkHlUJLqBE

Not the best, but often overlooked. Would absolutely dominate in today's league.

[Round Mound]

Kawhi Leonard also? Wasn't he one of the best mid range shooters in the league? He also has elite athleticism.

[j3lademaster]

I think op was trying to look for inspiration for his next myplayer when he made this thread, and then it got derailed into defining what athleticism means.

[FultzNationRISE]

Most skilled ever AND elite athlete.

Damn.

He must be carrying hard on the way to a first round win right now.

[Kblaze8855]

Looking at his numbers this season…is the answer now Ant? Anyone disputing his status as elite at either?

[Wardell Curry]

LeBon James

[ILLsmak]

Looking at his numbers this season…is the answer now Ant? Anyone disputing his status as elite at either?

Shooting, maybe. He is dumb at athletics. He needs that 40% 3.

Ray is an elite athlete because I have visions of him with his shirt off (no homo!) running to spots and wetting jumpers with someone passing him the ball... for like 5 hours straight.

I need more ant before I can say that he is better, tho if you mean truly explosive athlete, Ray falls off a bit. But to me stamina is really a big part of it. Only a few really good athletes had that kinda stamina.

-Smak

[Full Court]

Austin Reaves.

[eliteballer]

T-Mac?

[BarberSchool]

Who’s the best dunker 3 point shooter combo? Has there been anyone who was in the dunk and 3 point shooting contest?
LaVine, easily.

Just never put it all together with elite playmaking & defense.

[BarberSchool]

T-Mac?

T-Mac could have been a top 8-10 player all time if he stayed healthy.

[Im Still Ballin]

This was a fascinating thread: a semantic discussion on athleticism and sport-specific skills. Both sides had good points. All I'll add is that genetics aren't static; they're always being influenced by environmental factors. Great dexterity, coordination, and fluidity may be innate or from early exposure to specific physical stressors.

Durant may have been born with it. He may have also exposed his young, impressionable body to the right activities and movements. Dirk did gymnastics, as did David Robinson. I have no doubt that it played a factor in their physical development and maturation.

You can't truly separate anthropometry, athleticism, and sport-specific skill. And you can't separate genetics and environment.

[Im Still Ballin]

Carlos Boozer's dad had him eat his cereal with his off-hand from a young age, among other dexterous activities. Was it a surprise he was so good finishing with either hand?

[Im Still Ballin]

Same goes for Hakeem playing handball and soccer growing up. Good hands and feet! Nash was another who benefitted from soccer.

[imdaman99]

I feel like Jason Richardson was great at dunking, he won dunk contests and a really good 3pt shooter. Am I wrong?

[Meticode]

The answer is Paul George to me if you're talking in terms of shooting (percentage wise) from deep and athleticism in his prime.

He's a career 38%+ shooter from deep and I'm pretty sure he's also the only one with that shooting percentage or higher that's done a 360 windmill in a game. Also he's #9 all time in made threes.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aMs6khRYPM

[ralph_i_el]

After careful consideration....doesn't it have to be Kobe?

[Axe]

LaVine, easily.

Just never put it all together with elite playmaking & defense.
He's quite talented but didn't really make good impact for his team. Still remains true up to this day. Those who disagree can check this by taking a look at his postseason appearances. (https://i.ibb.co/JmpGnKz/IMG-20230528-095117.jpg)

[Meticode]

After careful consideration....doesn't it have to be Kobe?

No for me. Kobe was an average three point shooter at best for his whole career. Even sub-average some years (sub 27% several seasons). From deep even LeBron is better than Kobe stastically. Everything else? Yes. Elite defender and elite athletically, elite shot maker, elite defender. But George is my pick as of right now in terms of shooting, athleticism and defense combined. Him and Jimmy Butler for several years were the best two-way players in the league, but George could actually shoot the ball lights out from deep.

Also, I don't want to say in anyway would I pick George over Kobe if I had to pick one. Obviously Kobe has bigger upside.

[warriorfan]

I remember this thread. When I saw it again the first name that came to mind was Vince Carter.

Paul George is a good mention too.

I don’t know his splits off the top of my head but I imagine Leonard is up there?


My sleeper who deserves an honorable mention is Alan Houston

[bizil]

I guess the UTLTIMATE BLEND would be a 50-40-90 guy, who is a freakish athletic, and is a very good to great scorer. If you could give KD Giannis level ahtletic ability OR Ray Allen MJ level athletic ability, there's your answer. But that's damn near impossible! LOL So the CLOSEST to this is indeed Ant Man up in Minnesota. Not an EXACT MATCH because he's not a 50-40-90 guy. BUT he lead the league in 3PM on basically 40% 3PG (39.5 to be exact). And he's a great scorer averaging 27.5 PPG this season. He's a 45-40-80 guys for all intents and purposes. That'a GOOD CLIP for sure. And for me COULD BE THE ANSWER for a freakish type of athlete who is also FLAT OUT an alpha dog scorer who can stroke if from three. If the criteria is elite athletic ability (but not freakish athletic ability), then I look at KD or Ray Allen as the answer.

[Meticode]

I guess the UTLTIMATE BLEND would be a 50-40-90 guy, who is a freakish athletic, and is a very good to great scorer. If you could give KD Giannis level ahtletic ability OR Ray Allen MJ level athletic ability, there's your answer. But that's damn near impossible! LOL So the CLOSEST to this is indeed Ant Man up in Minnesota. Not an EXACT MATCH because he's not a 50-40-90 guy. BUT he lead the league in 3PM on basically 40% 3PG (39.5 to be exact). And he's a great scorer averaging 27.5 PPG this season. He's a 45-40-80 guys for all intents and purposes. That'a GOOD CLIP for sure. And for me COULD BE THE ANSWER for a freakish type of athlete who is also FLAT OUT an alpha dog scorer who can stroke if from three. If the criteria is elite athletic ability (but not freakish athletic ability), then I look at KD or Ray Allen as the answer.

Ant Man is a good pick. Especially after this year leading the league in made-threes and almost clipping that 40% mark.