so lebrons been a lesser player than prime jordan and kobe for really really long

[John_Connor]

and? he's still a net negative that never had a positive impact on his teams and has a -86 in finals series and is a complete failure out west aside from a cheap bubble run in 4 years. he's 1 game out of missing the play in tournament. if he wins the scoring title then you can't say it's age. he's better than ever offensively. he has no leadership qualities period. half a players value is bringing the best out of teammates and guys seemingly always degrade playing with lebron. how is that valuable. he doesn't inspire guys to play defense like kobe did during his prime. he completely changed the makeup and culture of team USA. before kobe got there lebron had shown them how to win bronze medals and just give up defensively. in the 2008 tournament everyone locked in like it was a college tournament atmosphere. that's leadership. kobe got the best out of guys. lebron brings the worst out of teammates.

the end.

[1987_Lakers]

Kobe at age 37

2016 Lakers: 17-65

Kobe: 18/4/3 on 36 fg%

The end.

[John_Connor]

Kobe at age 37

2016 Lakers: 17-65

Kobe: 18/4/3 on 36 fg%

The end.

congrats. lebrons better than age 37 kobe. and I agree he's the best offensive player in the nba like you said the other day in a thread.

so lebron at his best = possibly the 11th seed. missing the play in? while healthy all year?

kobe with Luke walton, kwame and smush could at least make the 7th seed.

is lebron really this dependent on AD?

[John_Connor]

we all saw that dunk on Kevin love. them roids got lebron playing his best basketball and having his highest vertical leap ever.

:roll:


no excuses

[Westbrook_Fan]

OP posting from an ottawa jail cell

[SouBeachTalents]

Bro, seriously, LeBron surpassed Kobe two presidential administrations ago. You can believe whatever you like, but you are arguing for an extremely fringe opinion at this point, one that virtually no metric or criteria would support.

There's obviously nothing anyone can do at this point to convince you otherwise, and it doesn't you personally can't like and respect Kobe more, but in terms of who's better, you are on the losing side of this debate by a substantial margin. Jordan & LeBron are considered by the majority to be the top two players to ever do it, this is also backed by production, accolades, advanced metrics, resume etc, while Kobe's ranked at the lower end of the top 10 at best. It is what it is.

[John_Connor]

Bro, seriously, LeBron surpassed Kobe two presidential administrations ago. You can believe whatever you like, but you are arguing for an extremely fringe opinion at this point, one that virtually no metric or criteria would support.

There's obviously nothing anyone can do at this point to convince you otherwise, and it doesn't you personally can't like and respect Kobe more, but in terms of who's better, you are on the losing side of this debate by a substantial margin. Jordan & LeBron are considered by the majority to be the top two players to ever do it, this is also backed by production, accolades, advanced metrics, resume etc, while Kobe's ranked at the lower end of the top 10 at best. It is what it is.

longevity just means you've been a lesser player for longer than the other guy was a superior player

sorry I don't buy it. the stats have always lied and all his success was due to playing in the leastern conference. he's proven he has almost no positive impact since going to the Lakers. AD had a fluke year where analytics and advanced metrics had him as the best player in the nba or top 3. certainly best on the Lakers. that's why they fluked that bubble ring. lebron as lead dog however = 3 disastrous seasons.

hes never been a better leader than Kobe. he doesn't inspire others. he's all stats and never cares about accountability. his leadership style is trash. whenever he loses he ducks out like Isiah Thomas. it's embarrassing.. he walks around on defense then slams the ball and yells at guys for not doing his job for him. pathetic

[3ba11]

Bro, seriously, LeBron surpassed Kobe two presidential administrations ago. You can believe whatever you like, but you are arguing for an extremely fringe opinion at this point, one that virtually no metric or criteria would support.

There's obviously nothing anyone can do at this point to convince you otherwise, and it doesn't you personally can't like and respect Kobe more, but in terms of who's better, you are on the losing side of this debate by a substantial margin. Jordan & LeBron are considered by the majority to be the top two players to ever do it, this is also backed by production, accolades, advanced metrics, resume etc, while Kobe's ranked at the lower end of the top 10 at best. It is what it is.


Lebron won with a talent-based approach (all-star team strategy) and doesn't really know how to win (brand of ball).. Developing the best brand in the league is required to win organically

So Kobe knows how to win, while Lebron's brand of ball is literally worst-ever, and Kobe also can defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load in Finals)

Knowing how to win and defeat maximum defensive attention are 2 massive criteria that separate Kobe from Lebron... And these things stem from a skill deficit - Lebron's high scoring is too abnormally-ball-dominant to beat good teams (weak brand) and he lacks the elite jumpshooting skill to defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load).

[ShawkFactory]

never had a positive impact on his teams

No?

[John_Connor]

No?

LeEmpty $tats

if kobe ever won the scoring title and missed the playoffs including a bonus 9th and 10th seed play in tournament he would get absolutely demolished by the media. instead they just pick on his teammates

no talk about how his stat chasing has destroyed their chemistry. lebron should be the primary distributor and demand Westbrook come off the bench. instead he encourages Westbrook to keep getting his and they just take turns padding stats in defeat for future contracts. thwyre the kevin nash and Scott hall of their time. only in it for personal agendas

[ImKobe]

Kobe at age 37

2016 Lakers: 17-65

Kobe: 18/4/3 on 36 fg%

The end.

That's a solid argument right there. Not like Kobe wasn't in year 20 after 3 season-ending injuries (achilles, knee & rotator cuff).. nope.

[ShawkFactory]

LeEmpty $tats

if kobe ever won the scoring title and missed the playoffs including a bonus 9th and 10th seed play in tournament he would get absolutely demolished by the media. instead they just pick on his teammates

no talk about how his stat chasing has destroyed their chemistry. lebron should be the primary distributor and demand Westbrook come off the bench. instead he encourages Westbrook to keep getting his and they just take turns padding stats in defeat for future contracts. thwyre the kevin nash and Scott hall of their time. only in it for personal agendas

You didn't say this year. You initially said "never had a positive impact on his teams".

[AirBonner]

Kobe

[3ba11]

You didn't say this year. You initially said "never had a positive impact on his teams".


Lebron needed 3 years to develop his team into a favored, high seed before entering the 06' Playoffs - this development included becoming an all-star along with Zydrunas in 05', and acquiring a 22/5/5 all-defender in 06'.. So he never should've gotten credit for "carrying" anything - he had a veteran, high seed in a conference that 1-star teams were winning most years (01', 02', 03', 07', 09').

Despite having several years to develop his team, Lebron had a bummy, 45-win loser in 2008 untill Mo Williams taught everyone that Lebron needs shooters and added 21 wins.. Then they added Jamison/Shaq to a 66-win league favorite

Ultimately, Lebron failed to win a weak East with homecourt in 09/10, so he formed super-teams.. These super-teams fell from preseason favorite to Finals underdog or loser for 6 straight years (11-16') - that's the DEFINITION of underachieving the expectation.. And currently, Lebron is lottery out West without AD to lead in scoring....

So Lebron's big man ball-dominance is simply the worst brand of all-time that yields horrific teammate fits with every player type except elite shooters and guys that can make him the "pippen" (lower scorer) Iike AD did in 2020.

[ShawkFactory]

Lebron needed 3 years to develop his team into a favored, high seed before entering the 06' Playoffs - this development included becoming an all-star along with Zydrunas in 05', and acquiring a 22/5/5 all-defender in 06'.. So he never should've gotten credit for "carrying" anything - he had a veteran, high seed in a conference that 1-star teams were winning most years (01', 02', 03', 07', 09').

Despite having several years to develop his team, Lebron had a bummy, 45-win loser in 2008 untill Mo Williams taught everyone that Lebron needs shooters and added 21 wins.. Then they added Jamison/Shaq to a 66-win league favorite

Ultimately, Lebron failed to win a weak East with homecourt in 09/10, so he formed super-teams.. These super-teams fell from preseason favorite to Finals underdog or loser for 6 straight years (11-16') - that's the DEFINITION of underachieving the expectation.. And currently, Lebron is lottery out West without AD to lead in scoring....

So Lebron's big man ball-dominance is simply the worst brand of all-time that yields horrific teammate fits with every player type except elite shooters and guys that can make him the "pippen" (lower scorer) Iike AD did in 2020.

No too bad for an 18-year-old drafted to a 17 win team, no?

The discussion wasn't about Lebron carrying anything. It was in response to:
that never had a positive impact on his teams

[3ba11]

No too bad for an 18-year-old drafted to a 17 win team, no?

The discussion wasn't about Lebron carrying anything. It was in response to:


His impact wasn't above expectation and he actually underachieved the expectation for nearly his entire career.

He failed to win a weak East with homecourt in 09/10, so he formed super-teams.. These super-teams fell from preseason favorite to Finals underdog or loser for 6 straight years (11-16') - that's the DEFINITION of underachieving the expectation.. And currently, Lebron is lottery out West without AD to lead in scoring....

So Lebron's big man ball-dominance is simply the worst brand of all-time that yields horrific teammate fits with every player type except elite shooters and guys that can make him the "pippen" (lower scorer) Iike AD did in 2020.

[Johnny32]

Lebron's better at 37 than kobe's peak lol. Must be hard to accept.

[3ba11]

No too bad for an 18-year-old drafted to a 17 win team, no?





It's completely standard

It isn't "carrying" anything to need 3 years to make playoffs.

and the impact isn't above expectation.. he underachieved the expectation nearly his entire career.. Missing the playoffs with the East all-star center isn't carrying anything or exceeding expectation (impact).... And on throughout his career (see previous posts) - he always underachieved the expectation