ONLY lebron misses the playoffs with Westbrook.. ONLY lebron's 3rd options become bum

[3ba11]

Klay averaged 20+ at 3rd option.. Jrue is averaging 19 this year and can dominate whenever needed.

Manu and Ray Allen averaged 19-20 for various playoff runs or Finals, along with other 3rd options like Worthy or Parish.

ONLY Lebron's 3rd options become role-playing bums, and ONLY lebron can't fit with Westbrook (can't make playoffs).. His skillset of big man ball-dominance has the worst teammate fits...... Ever

If you're ranked #2 all-time but can't fit with teammates and never learned how to win (brand of ball, organic), then you're a massive fraud.. You're the goat sports fraud that never evolved beyond the AAU brand you played at 10 years old (big man ball-dominance where everyone else must stand in corner)

Now if Lebron had elite jumpshooting skill and could shoot or quick-iso off screens, then he could fit with more player-types, but he lacks the skills to play an entire branch of basketball (ball movement, off-ball, movement), aka FRAUD

[Shogon]

Yes, LeBron sucks. He's bad at basketball. His career is a fraud. He's a liar, a cheat, he's on steroids, he's not athletic, he can't shoot, he's not clutch, he's bald, he can't drive past anyone, he's slow, he's not smart, he's just bad.

Bad, bad, bad.

We understand.

Now **** off.

[ShawkFactory]

What do Klay, Ray Allen, Manu, and Jrue Holiday have that Westbrook doesn't? You should be able to figure that one out.

[3ba11]

What do Klay, Ray Allen, Manu, and Jrue Holiday have that Westbrook doesn't? You should be able to figure that one out.


Lebron cratered Bosh, Love, Kuzma, Ingram, Hughes, Jamison, Rose, Clarkson, Wade and more

The only player type that doesn't get cratered are elite shooters - everyone else gets cratered, so his big man ball-dominance skillset has the worst teammate fits EVER

That's why he needs more help regardless of cast, aka fraud

[ShawkFactory]

Lebron cratered Bosh, Love, Kuzma, Ingram, Hughes, Jamison, Rose, Clarkson, Wade and more

The only player type that doesn't get cratered are elite shooters - everyone else gets cratered, so his big man ball-dominance skillset has the worst teammate fits EVER

That's why he needs more help regardless of cast, aka fraud

Correct. That goes for 3rd options across the board, regardless of who the first 2 are.

The guys you listed in the OP are all elite shooters, and thus weren't cratered by a 3rd option role.

Glad we're on the same page.

[GimmeThat]

sports is not a business, sports is sports. the business of sports is just broadcasting right, and OP is right, Lebron winning, making the playoff with Westbrook are all things that are bad for the league total deflation not adjusted broadcasting $$

[3ba11]

Correct. That goes for 3rd options across the board, regardless of who the first 2 are.

The guys you listed in the OP are all elite shooters, and thus weren't cratered by a 3rd option role.

Glad we're on the same page.


Bosh, Love, Wade, Rose, Ingram, Kuzma, Jamison - everyone played great except when next to Lebron

The #2 player all-time must be able to fit with more player-types than elite shooters, so he isn't #2

[ShawkFactory]

Bosh, Love, Wade, Rose, Ingram, Kuzma, Jamison - everyone played great except when next to Lebron

As 3rd options? Wasn't that the entire point of your thread..that 3rd options excel in that role except with Lebron?

This is untrue. Only elite shooters have the ability to score 20 or so as 3rd options. The historical record proves this.

It seems as though we're on the same page with this. Evidence:
The only player type that doesn't get cratered are elite shooters

[Full Court]

OP is speaking pure facts.

KD made the playoffs with Westbrook.

Harden made the playoffs with Westbrook.

Bronie..........No AD, no playoffs.

[John8204]

LOL...yes it's the PPG leader's fault. Hey how many playoff series has Westbrook won without Durant? And how did Bosh, Kuzma, Ingram, Love, Wade...all do in the playoffs before Lebron took them in. I believe Wade was the only one who made the playoffs and he was a first round exit guy without Shaq.

[3ba11]

As 3rd options?


Jrue, Klay, Allen, Manu, Harden, Worthy, Parish - every 3rd option could produce and still dominate except Lebron's

[Full Court]

sports is not a business, sports is sports. the business of sports is just broadcasting right, and OP is right, Lebron winning, making the playoff with Westbrook are all things that are bad for the league total deflation not adjusted broadcasting $$

In the business of sports, people tune in to watch Bronie. Some to cheer for him to win, some to cheer for him to lose. He's the NBA's second biggest cash cow behind Curry. Bronie missing the playoffs is NOT good for business. If he keeps this up, he's going to lose leverage with businessmen who run the NBA.

[ShawkFactory]

Jrue, Klay, Allen, Manu, Harden, Worthy, Parish - every 3rd option could produce and still dominate except Lebron's

Yes, because they are elite shooters. As you previously stated by:
The only player type that doesn't get cratered are elite shooters

I'm in agreement with this. So listing a bunch of elite shooters is contradictory.

[GimmeThat]

In the business of sports, people tune in to watch Bronie. Some to cheer for him to win, some to cheer for him to lose. He's the NBA's second biggest cash cow behind Curry. Bronie missing the playoffs is NOT good for business. If he keeps this up, he's going to lose leverage with businessmen who run the NBA.

more like the NBA is going to lose leverage against the people who watch it

[3ba11]

LOL...yes it's the PPG leader's fault. Hey how many playoff series has Westbrook won without Durant? And how did Bosh, Kuzma, Ingram, Love, Wade...all do in the playoffs before Lebron took them in. I believe Wade was the only one who made the playoffs and he was a first round exit guy without Shaq.


Wade was FMVP champion before joining Lebron and he taught Lebron how to win and perform under pressure..

Lebron was a 45-win bum in 2008 before Mo taught everyone that Lebron needs shooters and added 21 wins.

Lebron simply amassed enough talent to win (all-star team strategy) - he never brought anyone titles anymore then them bringing him titles..

[3ba11]

Yes, because they are elite shooters. As you previously stated by:

I'm in agreement with this. So listing a bunch of elite shooters is contradictory.


Harden, Worthy, Parish, Manu, and Jrue aren't elite shooters

So looks like you're wrong again and have been taught another lesson by 3ball..

You're welcome

[ShawkFactory]

Harden, Worthy, Parish, Manu, and Jrue aren't elite shooters

So looks like you're wrong again and have been taught another lesson by 3ball..

You're welcome

Harden, Manu, and Jrue have all had multiple seasons of 40% from 3. Jrue has been 42% on 5 attempts a game the last 2 years since becoming a 3rd option.

Worthy was not a 3rd option.

Parish averaged 15ppg in the playoffs from 83-88.

Whoops..

[3ba11]

Harden, Manu, and Jrue have all had multiple seasons of 40% from 3. Jrue has been 42% on 5 attempts a game the last 2 years since becoming a 3rd option.

Worthy was not a 3rd option.

Parish averaged 15ppg in the playoffs from 83-88.

Whoops..


No one would consider Jrue or Manu elite shooters and Worthy/Parish were 3rd option that led their team in scoring for various runs - every sidekick led their team in scoring except Pippen - that's what you forget - it's standard for sidekicks to lead the scoring, except Pippen.. Only MJ didn't need elite scoring help

We can look back n history and see that only Lebron turned star players into 3rd option low-producing bums... ONLY lebron did that to 3rd options

[ShawkFactory]

No one would consider Jrue or Manu elite shooters and Worthy was 3rd option that led the Lakers in scoring sometimes - every sidekick led their team in scoring except Pippen - that's what you forget - it's standard for sidekicks to lead the scoring, except Pippen.. Only MJ didn't need elite scoring help

We can look back n history and see that only Lebron turned star players into 3rd option low-producing bums... ONLY lebron did that to 3rd options

It doesn't matter who considers them elite shooters. The numbers show that they were.

And you said previously: The only player type that doesn't get cratered are elite shooters

I agree. Spotty-shooting, ball handlers ALWAYS have their numbers cratered when they move down the pecking order. That's just how basketball works.

[SouBeachTalents]

No one would consider Jrue or Manu elite shooters and Worthy/Parish were 3rd option that led their team in scoring for various runs - every sidekick led their team in scoring except Pippen - that's what you forget - it's standard for sidekicks to lead the scoring, except Pippen.. Only MJ didn't need elite scoring help

We can look back n history and see that only Lebron turned star players into 3rd option low-producing bums... ONLY lebron did that to 3rd options
But you always bring up how Bosh outplayed MVP Rose in 2011, so another example of you arguing both sides like a clown :lol

[3ba11]

It's crazy because Parish averaged 18 in the 87' Playoffs as 4th option

ONLY lebron craters superstars to low-producing bums

[RogueBorg]

3ba11 raises an interesting question. Westbrook was able to make the playoffs with Washington and Houston, comes to LA with Lebron and now he can't make the playoffs?

[3ba11]

But you always bring up how Bosh outplayed MVP Rose in 2011, so another example of you arguing both sides like a clown :lol


Kuzma, Mo and others saw a brief honeymoon period initially alongside Lebron, but the issue is DEVELOPMENT - they can't develop and become low-producing spot-up shooters

It's like these guys are so happy to show Lebron how good they are at first - he smiles and points to the corner.. Eventually, they're destroyed

Ultimately, Lebron's skillset of big man ball-dominance imposes spot-up roles that stall young players, thereby needing ready-made stars to win (team-hopping)

[tpols]

Correct. That goes for 3rd options across the board, regardless of who the first 2 are.

The guys you listed in the OP are all elite shooters, and thus weren't cratered by a 3rd option role.

Glad we're on the same page.

Love and Bosh were very good jumpshooters and they got cratered as well so that's not really an excuse.

[3ba11]

Love and Bosh were very good jumpshooters and they got cratered as well so that's not really an excuse.


Manu, Jrue, Harden, Worthy, Parish - none of these 3rd options were elite shooters

Heck, Parish was 4th option and averaged 18 in the 87' Playoffs... DJ/Parish averaged 17 in the 85' Playoffs as 4th option

Only Lebron turns stars into low-producing bums

[tpols]

Imagine acting like jrue holiday is an elite shooter but Kevin love isn't. Holiday has never been known for his shooting.

[3ba11]

Imagine acting like jrue holiday is an elite shooter but Kevin love isn't. Holiday has never been known for his shooting.


Good point..

I give Shawk some credit for making an actual basketball argument that wasn't a bad, just wrong (Jrue and other 3rd options aren't elite shooters)

[3ba11]

.
Thread Cliffs


How can someone that has the worst teammate fits ever and is known to employ an inferior, low team-assist brand be considered a smart or all-round player?

Teammate fits and brand of ball are the measures of IQ and all-round ability, and Lebron fails drastically at both (teammate fits and brand).

[tpols]

But you always bring up how Bosh outplayed MVP Rose in 2011, so another example of you arguing both sides like a clown :lol

In 2011 Bosh barely took 3pt shots... He was allowed to play in the midrange and his game flourished. Then over the next few years his 3pt volume exploded to give LeBron and wade some additional spacing, and his production tanked. That's a fit issue. We know Bosh was capable of much more because he proved it in the 2011 ECF a against the number 1 defense.

[GimmeThat]

.
Thread Cliffs


How can someone that has the worst teammate fits ever and is known to employ an inferior, low team-assist brand be considered a smart or all-round player?

Teammate fits and brand of ball are the measures of IQ and all-round ability, and Lebron fails drastically at both (teammate fits and brand).

try writing more concrete statements instead of asking questions and your problem will solve itself

[ShawkFactory]

Imagine acting like jrue holiday is an elite shooter but Kevin love isn't. Holiday has never been known for his shooting.

Holiday has shot 42% from 3 on almost 5 attempts a game the last 2 years as his teams 3rd option.

Regardless of whether or not you knew about that, that's elite 3pt shooting.

[ShawkFactory]

It's crazy because Parish averaged 18 in the 87' Playoffs as 4th option

ONLY lebron craters superstars to low-producing bums

Bosh averaged 19 in 2011 :lol

And the 87 Celtics averaged a 96 pace in the playoffs over the four series. 2011 Heat? 85.

Whoops again..

[GimmeThat]

Holiday has shot 42% from 3 on almost 5 attempts a game the last 2 years as his teams 3rd option.

Regardless of whether or not you knew about that, that's elite 3pt shooting.

facts do nothing to the pessimist and those that are negative, you're filling their void to be proven wrong while they don't care.

“Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Alfred Pennyworth

[tpols]

Bosh averaged 19 in 2011 :lol

And the 87 Celtics averaged a 96 pace in the playoffs over the four series. 2011 Heat? 85.

Whoops again..

Youre making the point here. What happened when Bosh was allowed to play his midrange game? LeBron and Wades fit melted down in one of the biggest upsets ever. Then they made Bosh a spot up 3pt shooter in the years upcoming and everyone complained that Bosh sucks, when Bosh was still Bosh... he just wasn't allowed to play his game anymore so it was a chemistry issue.

The Big 3 Heat had a losing record in the Finals when they were expected and self proclaimed to become a bill Russell dynasty, which they couldn't achieve due to poor chemistry between their stars.

Bosh was an All Star, All NBA, Olympian based on his midrange face up game.


https://youtu.be/d3Z7ZR1zcMM

But all of the LeBron fans would say he was a bum. Raptors Bosh was better than Klay. The Heat cratered him.

[GimmeThat]

Youre making the point here. What happened when Bosh was allowed to play his midrange game? LeBron and Wades fit melted down in one of the biggest upsets ever. Then they made Bosh a spot up 3pt shooter in the years upcoming and everyone complained that Bosh sucks, when Bosh was still Bosh... he just wasn't allowed to play his game anymore so it was a chemistry issue.

The Big 3 Heat had a losing record in the Finals when they were expected and self proclaimed to become a bill Russell dynasty, which they couldn't achieve due to poor chemistry between their stars.

Bosh was an All Star, All NBA, Olympian based on his midrange face up game.


https://youtu.be/d3Z7ZR1zcMM

But all of the LeBron fans would say he was a bum. Raptors Bosh was better than Klay. The Heat cratered him.

did not know those were Bosh's own words

[John8204]

And Bosh's record in Toronto

2009-2010 - 40-42
2008-2009 - 33-49
2007-2008 - 41-41
2006-2007 - 47-35(first round exit)
2005-2006 - 27-55
2004-2005 - 33-49

People act like Chris Bosh was a hall of famer before Lebron got to him. His stats might have dropped but being a "big three player" and making four trips to the finals put him in the Hall and gave him 2 rings.

[tpols]

Name the best player on Boshs raptors team. He had joke help. Even Cleveland LeBron had way more help than Raptors Bosh. Big Z, Jamison, Hughes, Mo Williams, Anderson Varejao, and Delonte West were all arguably better than anybody Raptors Bosh played with.

[ShawkFactory]

Youre making the point here. What happened when Bosh was allowed to play his midrange game? LeBron and Wades fit melted down in one of the biggest upsets ever. Then they made Bosh a spot up 3pt shooter in the years upcoming and everyone complained that Bosh sucks, when Bosh was still Bosh... he just wasn't allowed to play his game anymore so it was a chemistry issue.

The Big 3 Heat had a losing record in the Finals when they were expected and self proclaimed to become a bill Russell dynasty, which they couldn't achieve due to poor chemistry between their stars.

Bosh was an All Star, All NBA, Olympian based on his midrange face up game.


https://youtu.be/d3Z7ZR1zcMM

But all of the LeBron fans would say he was a bum. Raptors Bosh was better than Klay. The Heat cratered him.



Bosh has literally stated, out of his own mouth, that he become a smarter and better all-around basketball player when playing with Miami.

Being the #1 option on a mediocre team and putting up numbers doesn't mean anything and he knows that.

[John8204]

Name the best player on Boshs raptors team. He had joke help. Even Cleveland LeBron had way more help than Raptors Bosh. Big Z, Jamison, Hughes, Mo Williams, Anderson Varejao, and Delonte West were all arguably better than anybody Raptors Bosh played with.

Current MVP candidate Demar Derozan, 4 time All-Star Shawn Marion and #1 Draft Pick Andrea Bargnani

If Chris Bosh doesn't "crater" his career to play with Lebron he becomes a league pariah.

[GimmeThat]

Name the best player on Boshs raptors team. He had joke help. Even Cleveland LeBron had way more help than Raptors Bosh. Big Z, Jamison, Hughes, Mo Williams, Anderson Varejao, and Delonte West were all arguably better than anybody Raptors Bosh played with.

So Bosh had joke help, Lebron had way more help, Bosh turns into a 3rd option on Lebron's team.

can you at least use words that accurately describes the situation

[Spurs m8]

OP is speaking pure facts.

KD made the playoffs with Westbrook.

Harden made the playoffs with Westbrook.

Bronie..........No AD, no playoffs.

Even Beal and scrubs, made it with WB

[GimmeThat]

Even Beal and scrubs, made it with WB

Lebron's all star team won this year though

[FKAri]

If Westbrook's the 3rd option, who's the 2nd option?

[RRR3]

If Westbrook's the 3rd option, who's the 2nd option?
Malik “MJ” Monk