2022 is a massive stain on Lebron's legacy. Is 2022 worse than 2011?

[RogueBorg]

This Lakers team was one of the pre-season favorites. 5 Hall of Famers, 4 75th Anniversary teammates (should have been 5, Dwight got screwed). To go from title contender to not even make the playoffs is a huge black stain on Lebron's legacy.

Honest question, is 2022 worse than 2011? It might be.

2022
2011
-86
4/10
all-time regular season turnover leader
all-time post-season turnover leader
bronze medals
No MVP's in his 30's
No All-Defensive Teams in his 30's

No excuses accepted. This is part of his legacy.

:confusedshrug:

[FultzNationRISE]

No, there is no ****ing stain.

I will tear you apart with an axe and feed the pieces to starved piranhas.

There is no ****ing stain on Lebrons legacy.

[Airupthere]

For me, nothing tops 2011 for any player. 2022 is quite a revelation by itself exposing how Lebron has operated throughout the years and what he is all about though.

[ShawkFactory]

It’s not possible for a career to be stained based on something that happens in their 19th season.

[expansionera]

Most players are either completely irrelevant or no longer playing by their 19th year, LeBron (when healthy) is one of the best offensive players in the league. The fact AD and Russ couldn’t carry the load for the old veteran who is contributing at the highest level offensively is nothing but a stain on their individual legacies.

Weak broken Davis and mentally touched Westbrick cost LeBron another year

[Hey Yo]

OP acting like he's never said that Jordan's Washington years don't count.


:oldlol:

[RogueBorg]

It's alright
There comes a time
Got no patience to search
For peace of mind
Layin' low
Want to take it slow
No more hiding or
Disguising truths I've sold
Everyday it's something
Hits me all so cold
Find me sittin' by myself
No excuses, then I know
It's okay
Had a bad day
Hands are bruised from
Breaking rocks all day
Drained and blue
I bleed for you
You think it's funny, well
You're drowning in it too
Everyday it's something
Hits me all so cold
Find me sittin' by myself
No excuses, then I know

[RogueBorg]

OP acting like he's never said that Jordan's Washington years don't count.


:oldlol:

No excuses, Jordan 2x missing the playoffs
Lebron is 3x about to be 4x

TWICE AS MANY SUCKA

[MadDog]

Massive? I disagree. Its not a popular opinion, but it is sort of a ding on LeBron. It also exposes the narrative that LeBron A) makes everyone around him better and B) can take ANY team to the playoffs. I know. I know. I know. He's 37 in his 19th season. Well, he's also leading the league in scoring. I'm just matching that same energy. :confusedshrug:

[theman93]

It might be. And that's saying something.

Let's revisit the 2011 Finals real quick: Not only did Miami have homecourt advantage, but they also had 3 All-Stars (2 of which were All-NBA in Wade and Lebron) to Dallas' 1. Dirk didn't even shoot particularly well that series (41.6%) and Wade gave Lebron 27/7/5/2/2 on 55% which might be the greatest performance by a robin in NBA Finals history. All this, and Dallas didn't even need 7 games to close out Lebron's Heat. That's pretty hard to top for me.

Yet, his 2022 stain might just be worse. The 2022 Lakers were expected to make the playoffs and were title favorites out West. That was the expectation heading in to the season and we have the receipts. The play-in tournament wasn't even a thought. Missing the playoffs entirely though? Absolutely nobody saw that coming. And it wasn't even like when Lebron was on the court he elevated the Lakers to a good squad. Sure his numbers on basketball-reference.com look impressive, but those of us who watched the games each night know his stats are boosted by garbage time baskets when the game was far out of reach. Kind of like the QB who couldn't get anything going all game who throws for 150+ in the 4th because the defense switched to prevent defense.

Ultimately, and I never thought it could be done, but his 2022 season is a bigger stain on his legacy than 2011.

[expansionera]

Massive? I disagree. Its not a popular opinion, but it is sort of a ding on LeBron. It also exposes the narrative that LeBron A) makes everyone around him better and B) can take ANY team to the playoffs. I know. I know. I know. He's 37 in his 19th season. Well, he's also leading the league in scoring. I'm just matching that same energy. :confusedshrug:

I don’t get people crucifying Bron for “keep that same energy.” I agree he’s corny as hell at times but if an athlete doesn’t have that confidence he’s not getting close to LeBron’s level as a player.

What was he supposed to say? “You’re right guys, I’m washed as shit and AD keeps getting hurt”
:facepalm the yin of Lebron’s greatness is the yang that he’s expected to be perfect even in szn 19

Will Smith type situation

[theman93]

I don’t get people crucifying Bron for “keep that same energy.” I agree he’s corny as hell at times but if an athlete doesn’t have that confidence he’s not getting close to LeBron’s level as a player.

What was he supposed to say? “You’re right guys, I’m washed as shit and AD keeps getting hurt”
:facepalm the yin of Lebron’s greatness is the yang that he’s expected to be perfect even in szn 19

Will Smith type situation
Why was he "supposed" to say anything? He put his foot in his mouth and now he gets roasted properly.

[Hey Yo]

No excuses, Jordan 2x missing the playoffs
Lebron is 3x about to be 4x

TWICE AS MANY SUCKA
Now all of a sudden his Washington years count :oldlol:

Needed 19yrs to play 15 seasons.

LA has more wins now than the 86 playoff bound Bulls :oldlol:

[expansionera]

Now all of a sudden his Washington years count :oldlol:

Needed 19yrs to play 15 seasons.

LA has more wins now than the 86 playoff bound Bulls :oldlol:

Jordan played in the weakest era as well

[dankok8]

Not even close. 2011 is an abomination but 2022 is a bit of stain.

[MadDog]

I don’t get people crucifying Bron for “keep that same energy.” I agree he’s corny as hell at times but if an athlete doesn’t have that confidence he’s not getting close to LeBron’s level as a player.

What was he supposed to say? “You’re right guys, I’m washed as shit and AD keeps getting hurt”
:facepalm the yin of Lebron’s greatness is the yang that he’s expected to be perfect even in szn 19

Will Smith type situation

I wasn't even quoting LeBron there. That comment was me critiquing LeBron based on his level of play. He's putting up the points, so I think its fair to bring up defense and the other narratives.

That is pretty ironic though. Suppose you could say I am keeping that same energy lol


Not even close. 2011 is an abomination but 2022 is a bit of stain.

Yep

[RogueBorg]

Now all of a sudden his Washington years count :oldlol:

Needed 19yrs to play 15 seasons.

LA has more wins now than the 86 playoff bound Bulls :oldlol:

No excuses accepted, it is what it is.

[Airupthere]

I don’t get people crucifying Bron for “keep that same energy.” I agree he’s corny as hell at times but if an athlete doesn’t have that confidence he’s not getting close to LeBron’s level as a player.

What was he supposed to say? “You’re right guys, I’m washed as shit and AD keeps getting hurt”
:facepalm the yin of Lebron’s greatness is the yang that he’s expected to be perfect even in szn 19

Will Smith type situation

I don't know. Maybe something less cringe like, "We understand the perceptions of us and we are going to take it as a challenge and try to go as far as we can as a team this season."

[theman93]

Not even close. 2011 is an abomination but 2022 is a bit of stain.

A bit of a stain is an understatement, don't you think? From title favorites out West, to not even making the playoffs OR play-in tournament? That's an abomination as well. But I don't fault you for saying 2011 was worse. It was definitely all-time bad.

[Airupthere]

A bit of a stain is an understatement, don't you think? From title favorites out West, to not even making the playoffs OR play-in tournament? That's an abomination as well. But I don't fault you for saying 2011 was worse. It was definitely all-time bad.

Add the fact that Lebron showed that he can still play based on the numbers he put up means he had the capacity to still significantly contribute to the success of this team, he just misallocated it all to himself to the detriment of the team.

[RRR3]

Are Jordan’s Wizards years a stain? LeBron gets held to a higher standard than anyone ever lol

[RogueBorg]

Are Jordan’s Wizards years a stain? LeBron gets held to a higher standard than anyone ever lol

There are no excuses. You shmucks have been pounding your chests for years about Jordan's Wizard's years. It's time to eat crow. I told you all that Lebron will get old one day and it's going to be painful to watch. I don't want to hear any of you :cry: about Lebron Lakers this year. You guys didn't want to give any slack to a 38-40 year old Jordan...no quarter given to Lebron.

[FultzNationRISE]

Are Jordan’s Wizards years a stain? LeBron gets held to a higher standard than anyone ever lol


Immensely so.

Jordan never won them a playoff series, let alone a championship.

It makes his Bulls run look like more of a flukey coincidence than anything.

Lebron has won a first-option chip with three different organizations. That in itself coats his legacy with a stain-proof sealant. Nothing can mitigate his GOAT status at this point. He is the supreme GOAT for all of time.

MJ is meanwhile fading into the past as a guy that people hear was pretty good but otherwise arent taking seriously as a GOAT type of player.

MJ is basically Bob Cousy at this point.

[MadDog]

Immensely so.

Jordan never won them a playoff series, let alone a championship.

It makes his Bulls run look like more of a flukey coincidence than anything.

Lebron has won a first-option chip with three different organizations. That in itself coats his legacy with a stain-proof sealant. Nothing can mitigate his GOAT status at this point. He is the supreme GOAT for all of time.

MJ is meanwhile fading into the past as a guy that people hear was pretty good but otherwise arent taking seriously as a GOAT type of player.

MJ is basically Bob Cousy at this point.

I get this is a troll, but how do you "fluke" two 3-peats? lol

[tpols]

Has a scoring title winner ever led his team to such a losing record? I can't find another instance in history. This is proof of the greatest stat padding of all time.

[1987_Lakers]

Has a scoring title winner ever led his team to such a losing record? I can't find another instance in history. This is proof of the greatest stat padding of all time.

Wilt in 1963. Know your history.

[Phoenix]

Has a scoring title winner ever led his team to such a losing record? I can't find another instance in history. This is proof of the greatest stat padding of all time.

Without even googling it, the 2004 Magic( Tmac) off the top of my head. They barely won 20 games if memory serves.

[tpols]

Wilt in 1963. Know your history.

You had to go back 60 years to find an example. :roll:

That's even more proof.

[1987_Lakers]

You had to go back 60 years to find an example. :roll:

That's even more proof.

I don't even have to go back 60 years. Adrian Dantley led the league in scoring with his team losing 50+ games. MJ also led the league in scoring with his team having a losing record.

Do better.

[1987_Lakers]

Without even googling it, the 2004 Magic( Tmac) off the top of my head. They barely won 20 games if memory serves.

That's right. They lost 60+ games.

Tpols really thought he was onto something. Lol

[Phoenix]

The 2004 Magic won 21 games. At one point I think they lost like 18 games in a row or something.

EDIT^ @1987_Lakers yep. 21-61....

[tpols]

I don't even have to go back 60 years. Adrian Dantley led the league in scoring with his team losing 50+ games. MJ also led the league in scoring with his team having a losing record.

Do better.

MJs team went 40-42 in 1987. The Lakers right now are 31-47. Hardly comparable.

[1987_Lakers]

MJs team went 40-42 in 1987. The Lakers right now are 31-47. Hardly comparable.

It is if you factor in the Lakers record without LeBron.

Bulls would have missed the playoffs if 66% of teams didn't make the playoffs back then.

[tpols]

Wilt, Tmac and Dantley seem to be the only ones. And they all had far less help looking at rosters. Wilt averaged 45 ppg and his 2nd option averaged 13.

[Phoenix]

77 Jazz 35-47, Pistol Pete 31.1

[SouBeachTalents]

The craziest part about tpols is how he continuously and confidently states incorrect information after being proven wrong on so many occasions :lol

[tpols]

77 Jazz 35-47, Pistol Pete 31.1

That's a better record than what the Lakers will have this year by quite a bit.

[Bronbron23]

This Lakers team was one of the pre-season favorites. 5 Hall of Famers, 4 75th Anniversary teammates (should have been 5, Dwight got screwed). To go from title contender to not even make the playoffs is a huge black stain on Lebron's legacy.

Honest question, is 2022 worse than 2011? It might be.

2022
2011
-86
4/10
all-time regular season turnover leader
all-time post-season turnover leader
bronze medals
No MVP's in his 30's
No All-Defensive Teams in his 30's

No excuses accepted. This is part of his legacy.

:confusedshrug:

It's not a great year but i Wouldn't say it's a stain. At brons age anything he does from here on in can only add to his legacy.

[Phoenix]

That's a better record than what the Lakers will have this year by quite a bit.

The Lakers have 31 wins to the Jazz 35. That's already too close to call the gap 'quite a bit' and we don't know how their last 4 games will go. I dropped that as just one of the notable examples of guys who won a scoring title on a team that was 'quite a bit' under .500.

[RRR3]

The Lakers have 31 wins to the Jazz 35. That's already too close to call the gap 'quite a bit' and we don't know how their last 4 games will go. In any case, I dropped that as just one of the notable examples of guys who won a scoring title on a team that was 'quite a bit' under .500.
Also the Lakers win at a roughly 37 game pace when LeBron plays so...


Does ttrolls ever make good points?

[Phoenix]

Does ttrolls ever make good points?

Nope.

[SouBeachTalents]

Nope.
Tbf, he did say Kidd > LeBron

[Phoenix]

Tbf, he did say Kidd > LeBron

I stand corrected. :oldlol:

[tpols]

The Lakers have 31 wins to the Jazz 35. That's already too close to call the gap 'quite a bit' and we don't know how their last 4 games will go. I dropped that as just one of the notable examples of guys who won a scoring title on a team that was 'quite a bit' under .500.

Well if you look at their schedule its not looking too promising. This is one of the worst records a scoring champ has led in the history of the NBA. You can't refute that.

[Phoenix]

Well if you look at their schedule its not looking too promising. This is one of the worst records a scoring champ has led in the history of the NBA. You can't refute that.

I wasn't trying to, though. I'm merely saying that this isn't the only case of a scoring champion( if Lebron ends up winning it) playing on a team with a futile record. Instead of accepting the other examples and calling it a day, you're committed to trying to bob and weave around it. Yes, this is one of the worst scoring champion team records. Just saying that in clear english in case you think I'm arguing that point( obviously I'm not, but whatever).

[tpols]

I wasn't trying to, though. I'm merely saying that this isn't the only case of a scoring champion( if Lebron ends up winning it) playing on a team with a futile record. Instead of accepting the other examples and calling it a day, you're committed to trying to bob and weave around it. Yes, this is one of the worst scoring champion team records. Just saying that in clear english in case you think I'm arguing that point( obviously I'm not, but whatever).

Alright then that means the initial point is basically true. So like... 2 or 3 other seasons in the history of basketball were worse? And of those teams we know, they had horrible preseason odds at a championship. Lakers were 2nd behind the Nets at +425. Tmacs magic were +2000. So no matter how many semantics you or others want to play, the point is still standing.

[1987_Lakers]

The craziest part about tpols is how he continuously and confidently states incorrect information after being proven wrong on so many occasions :lol

Everytime I see him post. Like 99% of the time I already know it's incorrect info without even looking.

[Phoenix]

Alright then that means the initial point is basically true. So like... 2 or 3 other seasons in the history of basketball were worse? And of those teams we know, they had horrible preseason odds at a championship. Lakers were 2nd behind the Nets at +425. Tmacs magic were +2000. So no matter how many semantics you or others want to play, the point us still standing.

Still bobbing and weaving. You're the only one dragging semantics into it. Your initial point was this:


Has a scoring title winner ever led his team to such a losing record? I can't find another instance in history. This is proof of the greatest stat padding of all time.

Your initial point said nothing about team odds. You've added those 'well actualllly' semantics to the discussion after your question was answered as it was asked. Your first reply to Wilt's name was to say 'haha you had to go back 50 years!'. Right then and there you showed you had zero intent to accept any other names.

[RRR3]

ttrolls lowkey gets destroyed just as often as 3ball or kenny, just with less fanfare.

[SouBeachTalents]

Still bobbing and weaving. You're the only one dragging semantics into it. Your initial point was this:



Your initial point said nothing about team odds. You've added those 'well actualllly' semantics to the discussion after your question was answered as it was asked. Your first reply to Wilt's name was to say 'haha you had to go back 50 years!'. Right then and there you showed you had zero intent to accept any other names.
100%, He brought in timeframe and preseason odds when they're completely irrelevant to his original question.

[Phoenix]

100%, He brought in timeframe and preseason odds when they're completely irrelevant to his original question.

And right on brand for Tpols, his next retort will be to say its on us for not getting that this was *obviously* his point from the get-go. Stay tuned.....

[Spurs m8]

Imagine pretending to be a Lakers fan and spending your life defending this clown, after he punked you all season, for his own accolades :roll::roll::roll:

[tpols]

I mean... I accepted the names. Tmac in 2004 is the only recent case. Dantley and Wilt go back 40-60 years ago. And yes help matters. Tmac didn't have as much help. The Magic totally sucked and were huge league underdogs. Looking at Wilts roster his team was horrible too by comparison. Pointing out that this is one of if not the greatest underachievements by a scoring champ isn't an erroneous claim. I've yet to see anyone here argue an effective counter point to that.

[SouBeachTalents]

Imagine pretending to be a Lakers fan and spending your life defending this clown, after he punked you all season, for his own accolades :roll::roll::roll:
Is it any worse than pretending to be a Spurs fan and devoting 99.9% of your posts to a player on the Lakers.

[3ba11]

I mean... I accepted the names. Tmac in 2004 is the only recent case. Dantley and Wilt go back 40-60 years ago. And yes help matters. Tmac didn't have as much help. The Magic totally sucked and were huge league underdogs. Looking at Wilts roster his team was horrible too by comparison. Pointing out that this is one of if not the greatest underachievements by a scoring champ isn't an erroneous claim. I've yet to see anyone here argue an effective counter point to that.


This season is arguably the greatest season of stat-padding ever (a lottery scoring champion)

It's undoubtedly the greatest stat-padding ever when we consider expectation

[Phoenix]

I mean... I accepted the names. Tmac in 2004 is the only recent case. Dantley and Wilt go back 40-60 years ago. And yes help matters. Tmac didn't have as much help. The Magic totally sucked and were huge league underdogs. Looking at Wilts roster his team was horrible too by comparison. Pointing out that this is one of if not the greatest underachievements by a scoring champ isn't an erroneous claim. I've yet to see anyone here argue an effective counter point to that.

None of that is being argued though. If your original question was 'has a scoring champion failed so badly on an expected contender' then its an entirely different conversation. Yeah, the 2004 Magic absolutely sucked ass but I'd argue Tmac alone should have been good enough to at least get 30 wins out of that team in the mid 2000s east.

End of the day, your question was answered in the same vein it was asked.

[RRR3]

None of that is being argued though. If your original question was 'has a scoring champion failed so badly on an expected contender' then its an entirely different conversation. Yeah, the 2004 Magic absolutely sucked ass but I'd argue Tmac alone should have been good enough to at least get 30 wins out of that team in the mid 2000s east.

End of the day, your question was answered in the same vein it was asked.
T-Mac didn’t give a shit that year it was well known. He had led similar casts to more wins before. This Lakers roster without AD is absolutely comparable to that magic team unless you’re stupid enough to think Westbrook hasn’t been one of the worst players in the league.

[Phoenix]

T-Mac didn’t give a shit that year it was well known. He had led similar casts to more wins before.

The immediate preceding years, to be exact. With Grant Hill injured he was pretty much dragging the likes of Pat Garrity, Darrell Armstrong, and Andrew Declerq to 40+ wins on those early 2000s Magic squads.

[RRR3]

The immediate preceding years, to be exact. With Grant Hill injured he was pretty much dragging the likes of Pat Garrity, Darrell Armstrong, and Andrew Declerq to 40+ wins on those early 2000s Magic squads.
Yes he was, what a ****ing beast. My favorite NBA player when I was a little kid. Of course I barely watched back then lol

[NBAGOAT]

i mean no because of bron's age. He had best in the world expectations in 11. he wont or shouldnt right now. Also as RRR said, the lakers are truly shit around him though denver is pretty awful too and they have a nice record.

[Phoenix]

Yes he was, what a ****ing beast. My favorite NBA player when I was a little kid. Of course I barely watched back then lol

He was mine too back then, then I kind of transitioned to D-Wade after his rookie season.