Players that could elevate any team into the Playoffs

[Duderonomy]

How many players in their prime do you put in that category?

[j3lademaster]

No one can do that in the literal sense of op's statement, but Lebron, David Robinson, and Jokic come the closest. Maybe Shaq, I feel you can just put a bunch of mediocre shooters around him and be a decent team.

[Duderonomy]

No one can do that in the literal sense of op's statement, but Lebron, David Robinson, and Jokic come the closest. Maybe Shaq, I feel you can just put a bunch of mediocre shooters around him and be a decent team.
Bottom 3 NBA teams from the era to be more specific.

[3ba11]

.
The all-star duo of Lebron/Zydrunas needed to add a 22/5/5 all-defender to make 06' Playoffs:


https://i.makeagif.com/media/10-15-2021/t3TEzx.gif

https://i.makeagif.com/media/10-15-2021/LIlDOj.gif


Lebron needed 3 years to develop a veteran, high seed and one of the best teams in the conference before entering the 06' Playoffs

He never abnormally-carried teams

[tpols]

Maybe Larry Bird, Magic and Jokic. It would have to be a GOAT teammate elevator.

[Kawhi_Why_Not]

Won the title with role players:

Hakeem, dirk, kawhi are the main three

[ImKobe]

It's a long list. Making the Playoffs isn't that hard, especially with the new Play-In format.

[SouBeachTalents]

Won the title with role players:

Hakeem, dirk, kawhi are the main three
You can’t “elevate” teams to the playoffs when they make it consistently without you.

[Kawhi_Why_Not]

You can’t “elevate” teams to the playoffs when they make it consistently without you.


I mis read the question. I thought he meant elevate your team in the playoffs what real legends do.

Any bum like Westbrook could carry a team to the playoffs.

Raptors also had Lowry siakam and vanvleet last season and won 27 games

[FultzNationRISE]

Basically, if you put the worst 11 players in the league on a team and ask “who can you add that will take them to the playoffs”

The only answer is King Lebron Raymone James I.

[Duderonomy]

No one can do that in the literal sense of op's statement, but Lebron, David Robinson, and Jokic come the closest. Maybe Shaq, I feel you can just put a bunch of mediocre shooters around him and be a decent team.

What about rookie Melo leading the Nuggets to the playoffs. They did add Andre Miller in that off-season.

Cp3 & Westbrook with the Thunder.

Shaq from 94-01 if healthy could've pushed any franchise into the playoffs.
Kobe 2006-07 those teams were bottom feeders without him.

[John_Connor]

kobe, Wilt and jordan are the only 3 guys that can generate enough offense on any given night to steal 42-45 wins with ymca scrubs as their teammates

[FKAri]

Floor raisers. Guys like CP3, Lebron, Kobe and Harden from the last couple decades. Maybe a guy like Nash with the right pieces. Guys who can command an entire offense. The surest way of making bad teams, at least average. I'm not convinced a big after Shaq could do it in today's NBA. Even a unique guy like Jokic would need the other guys on the court(at least 2) to be at least average. And if they were average then they were on the verge of the playoffs already without him. Paul and Harden just need 1 big who can give them something in the pick and roll. Kobe and Lebron would need either that or some floor spacers.

Defense is more of a team effort on the NBA level as opposed to offense. It's not going to be helped much adding 1 guy and requires fixing a team's weakest links moreso than offense(rare cases like Roberson on the OKC notwithstanding).

[Axe]

Not stephen curry, that's for sure. Maybe andre iguodala.

[Manny98]

LeBron, CP3, Prime KG, Jokic, maybe MJ and peak Westbrook as well

Haven't seen enough of guys like Bird and Magic on bad teams to include them

[k0kakw0rld]

I've witnessed LeBron James leading the Cavs to a final having Boobie Gibson Cole as his running mate.

[k0kakw0rld]

LeBron, CP3, Prime KG, Jokic, maybe MJ and peak Westbrook as well

Haven't seen enough of guys like Bird and Magic on bad teams to include them
Durant? How? When?

[colts19]

LeBron, CP3, Prime KG, Jokic, maybe MJ and peak Westbrook as well

Haven't seen enough of guys like Bird and Magic on bad teams to include them

2 things, How many teams did Prime KG elevate to the playoffs in Miny. Next is maybe there is a correlation to why you never saw Magic and Bird elevate teams because that's what they always did. Magic and Bird would never when healthy lead a team to 32 wins. Ever.

[90sgoat]

Luka, Jokic

[John8204]

based on decades...

50's - George Mikan
60's - Bill Russell
70's - Jerry West
80's - Magic Johnson
90's - John Stockton
00's - Tim Duncan
10's - Lebron James
20's - Chris Paul

[John_Connor]

based on decades...

50's - George Mikan
60's - Bill Russell
70's - Jerry West
80's - Magic Johnson
90's - John Stockton
00's - Tim Duncan
10's - Lebron James
20's - Chris Paul

more like

60s - Wilt
70s - Barry
80s - Moses
90s - Jordan
00s - Kobe
10s - Durant
20s - Luka

[Manny98]

2 things, How many teams did Prime KG elevate to the playoffs in Miny. Next is maybe there is a correlation to why you never saw Magic and Bird elevate teams because that's what they always did. Magic and Bird would never when healthy lead a team to 32 wins. Ever.
Those early 2000s Timberwolves teams were absolute garbage outside of KG and he got them to the playoffs and won 50+ games with them

We never saw Magic elevate a bad team because he never played on a bad team, he literally got to play with the greatest center in NBA history the second he came into the league

[GimmeThat]

any player that can remain mentally healthy after taking a pay-cut

[HoopsNY]

LeBron, CP3, Prime KG, Jokic, maybe MJ and peak Westbrook as well

Haven't seen enough of guys like Bird and Magic on bad teams to include them

Dunno about KG. Peak KG missed the playoffs 3 years in a row from 2005-07. KG is massively overrated.

[iamgine]

"Could" is the operative word. Every single superstar technically 'could' eek out that 8th seed, since you only need 35-40 wins in some years.

So it just depends on how strong the conference is that year and how strong the bottom 3 teams are.

[John8204]

more like

60s - Wilt
70s - Barry
80s - Moses
90s - Jordan
00s - Kobe
10s - Durant
20s - Luka

60's - Wilt (9/10) good pick but when talking about the 60's Bill was more of a facilitator
70's - Barry (7/10) I went with West because he went (4/4) and then (3/3) as a coach
80's - Malone (9/10) with 1 title vs (10/10) with 5, I love Moses Malone rank him higher than most people but Magic really ran the 80's.
90's - Jordan (7/10) vs Stockton (10/10) Jordan clearly just wanted to play in the 90's if he was going to win a title, Stockton made everybody better on his team.
00's - Bryant (9/10) vs Duncan(9/10) tough call but while Shaq should take most of the blame for the breakup Kobe couldn't play with his best teamate so Tim gets the edge
10's - James (9/10) vs Durant (9/10) you gotta give this to Lebron, Durant played for 3 MVP's and only won a title when he joined a 73 win team
00's - Paul (3/3) vs LuKa (3/3) - Chris Paul likely wins this category for bring an OKC team which might be the worst playoff roster I've ever seen to a 7 game series, Luka meanwhile still needs to get out of the first round.

[LeCola]

Lebron already proved he is not.

The list could be very long and contain those:

Jordan
Bird
Magic
Hakeem
Wilt
Kareem
Shaq
Kobe
Durant
Jokic
Doncic
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Westbrook

[Mask the Embiid]

No one.... wait maybe magic johnson????..... uhhhhh nahhhh uhhhh idk maybe magic? thats it... Its almost impossible to overcome shit teammates....and i mean real shit teammates....where they are a negative on the court....not ppl like will barton/aaron gordon who bring something to the table....i mean real bottom-dweller players like nickiel alexander and isiah stewart

[97 bulls]

Any player that you'd be willing yo build a team around should be good enough to get a mediocre team to the playoffs.

[97 bulls]

No one.... wait maybe magic johnson????..... uhhhhh nahhhh uhhhh idk maybe magic? thats it... Its almost impossible to overcome shit teammates....and i mean real shit teammates....where they are a negative on the court....not ppl like will barton/aaron gordon who bring something to the table....i mean real bottom-dweller players like nickiel alexander and isiah stewart

When did Magic ever play with bad teammates? He's always played with hall of fame caliber teammates.

[Mask the Embiid]

When did Magic ever play with bad teammates? He's always played with hall of fame caliber teammates.

He has the skillset and size and vision and scoring too...im guessing here just like everyone else why did u quote me out of all the ppl in here??? Why are u mj stans so sensitive :oldlol:?

What u wanted me to say ur boy....well no im not ...he cant

[Pointguard]

Duncan always had winning ways.
How is it that people are saying Westbrook and not Giannis, who is more impressive than any current player.
I seen J Kidd go to a last place team and take them to the championship round within a year without big roster changes.

[Pointguard]

When did Magic ever play with bad teammates? He's always played with hall of fame caliber teammates.

When he played Jordan in the championship his team was garbage. It was Worthy's worst year in both seasons. He wasn't HOF caliber.

[HoopsNY]

When he played Jordan in the championship his team was garbage. It was Worthy's worst year in both seasons. He wasn't HOF caliber.

That's a bit of a stretch. Worthy was an All-Star, All-NBA 3rd Team, and received MVP votes in 1991.

[Micku]

Every superstar could drag a team to the playoffs I feel in their prime/peak.

[Pointguard]

That's a bit of a stretch. Worthy was an All-Star, All-NBA 3rd Team, and received MVP votes in 1991.

You know full well that the Allstar team was due to Magic being his teammate and them winning without Kareem. He was a 21 and 4.6 rebound guy that year which is very low for a guy being featured by Magic and who got 4 to six points a game running on the break with him. He got that all NBA spot over Tom Chambers, Otis Thorpe, Derrick Coleman, Mchale and Pippen, who thoroughly outplayed him in the finals that year. Their numbers and play was just better than Worthy. If they had Magic on their teams its not close. And hahahaha at him getting serious MVP votes.

[Duderonomy]

Any player that you'd be willing yo build a team around should be good enough to get a mediocre team to the playoffs.
Let's take prime Shaq, you put him on the current Kings or Pistons and people are talking about how good they are.

[TheGoatest]

Are we talking about a normal era, where a 42-40 record might not be enough for a playoff spot, or an era where a 30-52 record is plenty?

[3ba11]

Floor raisers. Guys like CP3, Lebron, Kobe and Harden from the last couple decades. Maybe a guy like Nash with the right pieces. Guys who can command an entire offense. The surest way of making bad teams, at least average. I'm not convinced a big after Shaq could do it in today's NBA. Even a unique guy like Jokic would need the other guys on the court(at least 2) to be at least average. And if they were average then they were on the verge of the playoffs already without him. Paul and Harden just need 1 big who can give them something in the pick and roll. Kobe and Lebron would need either that or some floor spacers.

Defense is more of a team effort on the NBA level as opposed to offense. It's not going to be helped much adding 1 guy and requires fixing a team's weakest links moreso than offense(rare cases like Roberson on the OKC notwithstanding).


Lebron literally never had a bad team in the playoffs because he had 3 years to develop his team into a veteran high seed before entering the 06: Playoffs.

The all-star duo of Lebron/Zydrunas added a 22/5/5 all-defender and the future COY to make the 06' Playoffs as a 50-win high seed, so when did Lebron carry a bad team that only won like 35 games in the playoffs?..

He never did - his bad teams were fortunate to miss the playoffs in 04', 05', 19', and 22', so he never had to carry a bad team with low wins in the playoffs

You guys just watch too much tv and lap up the false narratives and bullshit from Stephen A or Nick Wright and the like

[ShawkFactory]

Lebron literally never had a bad team in the playoffs because he had 3 years to develop his team into a veteran high seed before entering the 06: Playoffs.

The all-star duo of Lebron/Zydrunas added a 22/5/5 all-defender and the future COY to make the 06' Playoffs as a 50-win high seed, so when did Lebron carry a bad team that only won like 35 games in the playoffs?..

He never did - his bad teams were fortunate to miss the playoffs in 04', 05', 19', and 22', so he never had to carry a bad team with low wins in the playoffs

You guys just watch too much tv and lap up the false narratives and bullshit from Stephen A or Nick Wright and the like

The 2008 Cavs were a bad team.

[3ba11]

The 2008 Cavs were a bad team.


The 08' Cavs only won 45 games because Zydrunas was getting old and I think Hughes was gone or effectively buried by Bron-ball..

Lebron couldn't handle the extra defensive attention and averaged 26 on 35% against the Celtics... The Cavs' reputed defense took the series 7 games despite Lebron wetting the bed.

So that means Mo Williams didn't join a good team... :confusedshrug:... :applause:

he MADE that team good by providing the missing link (shooting), and getting superior PER, BPM, VORP, WS/48, scoring and efficiency than 90' Pippen

So the 09' Cavs had far greater offensive help than the 90' Bulls, while also having the #3 defense (#19 for Bulls)... aka Lebron had a better team on both sides of the ball, yet Jordan still beat him to titles - Jordan won the next year in 91', while Lebron lost again in 10' despite adding Jamison/Shaq to a 66-win league favorite

[HoopsNY]

You know full well that the Allstar team was due to Magic being his teammate and them winning without Kareem. He was a 21 and 4.6 rebound guy that year which is very low for a guy being featured by Magic and who got 4 to six points a game running on the break with him. He got that all NBA spot over Tom Chambers, Otis Thorpe, Derrick Coleman, Mchale and Pippen, who thoroughly outplayed him in the finals that year. Their numbers and play was just better than Worthy. If they had Magic on their teams its not close. And hahahaha at him getting serious MVP votes.

Worthy had a career high in PPG in '91. His efficiency dropped off as he shot the ball more, which is understandable. In the 3 series before playing Chicago, he put up 22/4/4/1 on 46%.

If you're going to say he wasn't as productive as previous years, then sure, I agree, but those years also had Kareem or Byron Scott putting up better numbers. It kinda helps with less defensive attention and more outlet players available on a transition play for Magic to pass the ball.

I'm not sure what you're expecting people to say here? "It was his worst year"...I don't know if he was worst than his first few seasons, but I definitely don't think he was at his peak. He wasn't. He was still very much in his prime, though.

Given that fact, now what? If Worthy was still in his peak and plays healthy in the finals, the outcome still remains the same. Chicago was too dominant in that postseason.

Chicago had its highest playoff Net Rating that year (+13.2), which was far higher than any of their other championship years. By comparison, the 2017 Warriors had a +13.5 Net Rating, the 2001 Lakers +13.8, and they're the only teams that have been better historically.

So yea, '91 Worthy wasn't as good as '89 Worthy, or '86 Worthy. So what?

[ShawkFactory]

The 08' Cavs only won 45 games because Zydrunas was getting old and I think Hughes was gone or effectively buried by Bron-ball

So that means Mo Williams didn't join a good team... confusedshrug:

he MADE that team good by providing the missing link (shooting), and getting superior PER, BPM, VORP, WS/48, scoring and efficiency than 90' Pippen

So the 09' Cavs had far greater offensive help than the 90' Bulls, while also having the #3 defense (#19 for Bulls)... aka Lebron had a better team on both sides of the ball, yet Jordan still beat him to titles - Jordan won the next year in 91', while Lebron lost again in 10' despite adding Jamison/Shaq to a 66-win league favorite

Hughes was there for half the year but he was hurt. Only played like 30 games and wasn't as effective. He was never the same after the surgery on his finger (shooting hand) early in 2006.

[3ba11]

Worthy was 1st option with averaged 24 on 57% in the 87' Playoffs, including 30 on 62% in the WCF to carry the Lakers to the Finals

Worthy led the Lakers in playoff scoring every year from 87-91

In his first Playoffs (84'), he averaged 22 on 62% in the Finals

Worthy was also good right away - he didn't need to be developed

[hateraid]

The indicator is how successful a team is when the player either leaves or has a prolonged injury. Shaq, Magic, LeBron, and Wilt all fit the checkbox.

[HoopsNY]

The indicator is how successful a team is when the player either leaves or has a prolonged injury. Shaq, Magic, LeBron, and Wilt all fit the checkbox.

I hear this a lot but does it really stand up to scrutiny? Take a look at each of the players...

'96 ORL w/Shaq: 40-14 (.740%)
'96 ORL w/o Shaq: 20-8 (.714%)

Shaq then leaves and Orlando wins 45 games. The win total is deceiving, though, because Penny missed 23 games.

'97 ORL w/Penny: 38-21 (.644%)
'97 ORL w/o Penny: 7-16 (.304%)

Orlando had a 53 win pace in '97 with Penny and no Shaq, and a 59 win pace in '96 with Penny and no Shaq, combined between the two years, that's a 55 win pace. I really feel Penny gets underrated in this regard because he was their primary playmaker, best transition player, good defender, second best scorer, etc.

Some point towards the 2005 Lakers, but conveniently forget that the Lakers were a completely different team in 2005 than they were in 2004. They lost Payton, Malone, Fisher, Fox, Shaq, and Phil.

Then in 2008, the Heat had Shaq for 33 games. They were 8-25 during that time. He ends up being traded to Phoenix.

Wilt also gets a bit overrated in this respect too. SFW were 10-28 with Wilt in '65 and 7-35 without him. Then he got traded from the Sixers to the Lakers. The Sixers won 55 games the next season. One might argue that Clark and Imhoff were good players, which they were, but Clark scored 9.2 PPG and 9.7 Rebs while Clark put up 13.5 PPG and 3.6 Assists.

With Jerry West playing just 31 games and Wilt sitting out the '74 season, the Lakers still won 47 games and made the playoffs.

LeBron is an interesting case, but even his value is overstated. Both Mo Williams and Varajeo missed the majority of the 2011 season, in addition to losing LeBron, they also lost Shaq, Ilgauskas, and Delonte West. Not to mention, they fired Mike Brown and brought in Byron Scott. It was a complete makeover, much like 2018.

The 2015 Heat get bashed a lot but the talk of the town then was that the Heat had so many injuries and variations in their lineup that they had played something like less than 5 games together with their original starting lineup. Once those guys got back healthy somewhat and established some chemistry, they won 48 games and a second round playoff bout.

Magic is honestly no different. The Lakers still won 43 games and made the playoffs. Both Scott and Worthy were declining at that point. But Worthy had also missed 28 games. Vlade Divac had also missed 46 games. The Lakers couldn't really establish any synergy without both of those guys on the floor. They only played 11 games together, but were 8-3 in those games.

[Duderonomy]

What about 2000-05 Jason Kidd? Put him on current Orlando or OKC and they get the 8th seed easily. I hope they get rid of that play-in garbage.

[Jasper]

giannis every day any day.

[3ba11]

.
This is what Lebron needed to make the 06' Playoffs


https://i.makeagif.com/media/10-15-2021/t3TEzx.gif

https://i.makeagif.com/media/10-15-2021/LIlDOj.gif


The all-star duo of Lebron/Zydrunas added a 22/5/5 all-defender to make the 06' Playoffs.

Lebron needed 3 years to develop a veteran, high seed and one of the best teams in the conference before entering the 06' Playoffs

[ShawkFactory]

With a terrible cast I think that Giannis, Jokic, and Embiid are the only ones who could do that right now.

Prime KD and prime Lebron certainly could. Probably Steph as well but that one is a little tougher. Wade did it in 2009 and 2010.

[3ba11]

With a terrible cast I think that Giannis, Jokic, and Embiid are the only ones who could do that right now.

Prime KD and prime Lebron certainly could. Probably Steph as well but that one is a little tougher. Wade did it in 2009 and 2010.


Except Lebron never carried a bad team that barely win 30 or 40 games in the playoffs - he was lucky that those teams missed the playoffs (04', 05', 19', 22')

Instead, Lebron always had veteran high seeds in the playoffs - the all-star duo of Lebron/Zydrunas added a 22/5/5 all-defender and the future COY to make the 06' Playoffs as a favored high seed and one of the best teams in the conference

So keep believing the crap and entertainment on cable TV... But you'll find that the entertainment is better if you actually acknowledge what's going on or what happened, rather than lap up false narrative from the media

[ShawkFactory]

Except Lebron never carried a bad team that barely win 30 or 40 games in the playoffs - he was lucky that those teams missed the playoffs (04', 05', 19', 22')

Instead, Lebron always had veteran high seeds in the playoffs - the all-star duo of Lebron/Zydrunas added a 22/5/5 all-defender and the future COY to make the 06' Playoffs as a favored high seed and one of the best teams in the conference

So keep believing the crap and entertainment on cable TV... But you'll find that the entertainment is better if you actually acknowledge what's going on or what happened, rather than lap up false narrative from the media
I said...


prime Lebron

Not 19 or 35 year old Lebron.

[Pointguard]

Worthy had a career high in PPG in '91. His efficiency dropped off as he shot the ball more, which is understandable. In the 3 series before playing Chicago, he put up 22/4/4/1 on 46%.

If you're going to say he wasn't as productive as previous years, then sure, I agree, but those years also had Kareem or Byron Scott putting up better numbers. It kinda helps with less defensive attention and more outlet players available on a transition play for Magic to pass the ball.

oh no! you are missing a very big key point. He is suppoosed to get better numbers moving up from third option to first to the best PG ever. He was supposed to be first option with more production and numbers. He always a great 3rd option. pretty good first option.


I'm not sure what you're expecting people to say here? "It was his worst year"...I don't know if he was worst than his first few seasons, but I definitely don't think he was at his peak. He wasn't. He was still very much in his prime, though.

You couldn't really depend on him. He was nolonger great down low. He was supposed to step up. Kersey Was the better player in the WC finals. This was Worthy's time to shine. But i Think he was injured. But he never played like he was ready for the 1 spot.

[HoopsNY]

oh no! you are missing a very big key point. He is suppoosed to get better numbers moving up from third option to first to the best PG ever. He was supposed to be first option with more production and numbers. He always a great 3rd option. pretty good first option.


You couldn't really depend on him. He was nolonger great down low. He was supposed to step up. Kersey Was the better player in the WC finals. This was Worthy's time to shine. But i Think he was injured. But he never played like he was ready for the 1 spot.

That's fair.