Dirks all time European in the nba teams. Jokic fans prepare to be annoyed.

[Kblaze8855]

https://www.hostpic.org/images/2204091659540356.jpeg

[ralph_i_el]

No Dirk?

[RRR3]

Jokic is better than Dirk, maybe he’s salty about it. Then again Giannis is better than him too and he ranked him on the first team.

[nayte]

He is obviously not including himself and not totally unreasonable to put pau above jokic considering his accomplishments. Dont really agree with that one but it's his opinion who are we to judge

[iamgine]

I don't think that this is a list that's been thought of very very carefully. Just something Dirk casually came up with. Regular people don't really think about this stuff like some people in forums.

[PeroAntic]

I see nothing wrong here, nor any agenda that conspiracists are immediately looking for.

[Shogon]

Pau was damn good and definitely underrated but he wasn't better than Jokic.

Looks like Dirk just threw shit to the wall and probably answered this question off the cuff without much thought, if I had to guess.

He has two legitimate, they aren't any other position... centers... on the second team... so that throws out the idea that he's just going by positions... there's no real rhyme or reason to this list.

If he sat there and put 5 to 10 minutes of thought into this, well it's just once again proof that most NBA players would make incredibly shitty GMs and talent evaluators.

[Kblaze8855]

I assume he left himself out. That’s what people usually do in those situations.


Far as him vs Jokic and Giannis….it just shows how hard it is to rank Dirk. In theory his lack of total game(relative to them…Jokic being a goat tier passing big and Giannis a DPOY) puts him a notch below….but his downright insane shot making makes up for it. In theory it makes him much easier to win with because he can operate in any situation, close teams out, and make you more dangerous in the playoffs. But on the other hand he lost in 20 of 21 seasons including a couple all time collapses/chokes. If he twists an ankle in 2011 does that prove his style isn’t as effective as one would assume?

It just feels like he would be very easy to win with even though reality didn’t always go along with it.

Do you think Nash, Finley, Jamison, Antione and Jokic would do better than a first round exit? I think maybe they do. But I also think it’s hard to replicate 2011. Do I think Jokic gets shut down like Dirk did vs the Warriors and go out as the mvp largely guarded by wings shooting like 2-11 to lose to an 8 seed? No. But do I think he wins 67 with that team to begin with? Also no. Just hard to make a final ruling. Do I think Dirk drops 50 to closeout a finals while he also made amazing defensive plays look routine? No. I’m sure he wouldn’t.

I don’t know that I’d argue he’s better at basketball than either of them but I don’t know that I would trade him for either of them all in their primes.

Hes just tricky. A better than the sum of his parts type it’s hard to argue about skill by skill. Jokic is better than Dirk at virtually everything but contested jumpers and he’s hard to handle there too.

I might have to conclude Jokic is better skill wise….but Dirks greatest skill is such an amazing fallback plan for an offense to have….I might rather have him.

I say that while also acknowledging that skill also had I suppose the second most seasons ever….not winning(second to Vince).

Like I said it’s just hard. I feeeeeel like Dirk might be better but have a hard time arguing it.

[Shogon]

I assume he left himself out.

Of course he left himself out. He's better than most of that list in terms of career and in terms of peak.


If he twists an ankle in 2011 does that prove his style isn’t as effective as one would assume?

No but that's exactly how people view things because they're stupid and it's a lot easier to just say "you won? you're better. you lost? you're worse" than it is to come up with any type of consistently coherent thought when trying to figure out who the "best" really is, if there even is such a thing as best.


Jokic is without question a better floor raiser than Dirk. I don't even see how this could possibly be a debate.

Is Jokic a better ceiling raiser as well? Maybe time will tell if he ever gets a good team around him, but I personally suspect that he is not. Dirk is probably the better ceiling raiser.

So that begs the question... if they're split on these questions, who is better? What does better mean? There is no clear answer when you're splitting hairs of players that have reached MVP level, often times. That's not to say there aren't clear hierarchies within the MVP winners, I am just saying... in this situation it's not clear.

[nayte]

Your probably right but can see why he would pick Drazen and sabonis etc.its a mix from who he grew up watching then played against then some new generation

[Kblaze8855]

Of course he left himself out. He's better than most of that list in terms of career and in terms of peak.



No but that's exactly how people view things because they're stupid and it's a lot easier to just say "you won? you're better. you lost? you're worse" than it is to come up with any type of consistently coherent thought when trying to figure out who the "best" really is, if there even is such a thing as best.


Jokic is without question a better floor raiser than Dirk. I don't even see how this could possibly be a debate.

Is Jokic a better ceiling raiser as well? Maybe time will tell if he ever gets a good team around him, but I personally suspect that he is not. Dirk is probably the better ceiling raiser.

So that begs the question... if they're split on these questions, who is better? What does better mean? There is no clear answer when you're splitting hairs of players that have reached MVP level, often times. That's not to say there aren't clear hierarchies within the MVP winners, I am just saying... in this situation it's not clear.


Ill put it this way….


If I have to pick one in the real world to be my long-term franchise player id absolutely consider Dirk.

If I have to pick one of them to have an argument about being better than the other? Give me Jokic as my guy in the argument. I could probably make the Dirk argument look really ****ing stupid with Jokic in my pocket even as the other side had a title to wield.

Jokic is the easier argument to win. Dirk might be the pick of my heart.

[Phoenix]

He is obviously not including himself and not totally unreasonable to put pau above jokic considering his accomplishments. Dont really agree with that one but it's his opinion who are we to judge

It's unreasonable to put Drazen above him, as great as he was in a vacuum his career tragically got cut short right in his prime. Joker is literally the MVP of the league right now, there's no way he shouldn't be on the first team. Parker has the more 'accomplished' career but he's obviously several tiers lower than Jokic as far as on-court play.

[nayte]

It's unreasonable to put Drazen above him, as great as he was in a vacuum his career tragically got cut short right in his prime. Joker is literally the MVP of the league right now, there's no way he shouldn't be on the first team. Parker has the more 'accomplished' career but he's obviously several tiers lower than Jokic as far as on-court play.

I'm guessing he was trying to do positions. Don't get me wrong jokic is the second best player out of all them. I'm putting giannis ahead of him but that's imo

[Phoenix]

I'm guessing he was trying to do positions. Don't get me wrong jokic is the second best player out of all them. I'm putting giannis ahead of him but that's imo

That may be more applicable to the first team, but the 2nd team are all front-court guys. If he's doing it in terms of back and frontcourt, based on his picks the first team backcourt should Parker and Luka. The front court should be Joker, Giannis and Dirk( who obviously didn't want to include himself).

[nayte]

That may be more applicable to the first team, but the 2nd team are all front-court guys. If he's doing it in terms of back and frontcourt, based on his picks the first team backcourt should Parker and Luka. The front court should be Joker, Giannis and Dirk( who obviously didn't want to include himself).

Yeah your right on the 2nd team. Dunno lol. I'm not gonna try to guess anymore.

[ImKobe]

Jokic is like two tiers above Pau, lol.

[r0drig0lac]

Nice list, and Dirk > Jokic

[ShawkFactory]

Jokic is like two tiers above Pau, lol.

But not Tony Parker and Drazen?

[Kblaze8855]

I realize now what it is. It’s Dirks selection from the vote on nba Europe:

https://nba75.jebbit.io/euroteamuk


You can vote too if you lie on the country selection and say you’re European. It doesn’t make you do it by position it’s just picking 5 then 5 more. So he just didn’t have Jokic in his top 5 but didn’t do it by position.

[Shogon]

I realize now what it is. It’s Dirks selection from the vote on nba Europe:

https://nba75.jebbit.io/euroteamuk


You can vote too if you lie on the country selection and say you’re European. It doesn’t make you do it by position it’s just picking 5 then 5 more. So he just didn’t have Jokic in his top 5 but didn’t do it by position.

That makes the list substantially worse.

He would be an abhorrent GM. Beyond bad. **** that shit. Brain dead.

[tpols]

Team 2 would probably beat team 1. Awkward fit with luka, Giannis, and parker all needing the ball to operate. Team 2 doesn't have any ball dominators and better spacing. Every player is a threat to shoot and Jokic / Sabonis would own the paint. Pau would get bullied he can't hang in their weight class.

[post]

https://pic4.zhimg.com/50/v2-1039a212bbb8b0d7a825daa316396ece_720w.gif?source=1 940ef5c

https://i.imgflip.com/211qze.jpg

[John_Connor]

if sabonis is on there then why not include spanoulis since its obviously not about their nba achievements

[Kblaze8855]

You could argue first 2-3 blazers years Sabonis was better than Kukoc was in the nba.

[1987_Lakers]

Jokic 2nd team, lol.

This is why we can't take players opinions serious.

[1987_Lakers]

I realize now what it is. It’s Dirks selection from the vote on nba Europe:

https://nba75.jebbit.io/euroteamuk


You can vote too if you lie on the country selection and say you’re European. It doesn’t make you do it by position it’s just picking 5 then 5 more. So he just didn’t have Jokic in his top 5 but didn’t do it by position.

Off the link, my team was..

1st team: Jokic, Giannis, Luka, Dirk, Pau
2nd team: Parker, Schrempf, Peja, Marc, Petrovic

[Kblaze8855]

I wish we could see Drazen in this spaced out ultimate green light league. Reggie had him as a better shooter than he was but back then even shooters of his caliber played inside and drove a lot:

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/GreatDelayedBobcat-size_restricted.gif


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/GiftedEmbarrassedHoneycreeper-size_restricted.gif



https://thumbs.gfycat.com/FragrantReflectingBufflehead-size_restricted.gif




He might be scoring Luka totals. He’s a much better pure shooter and didn’t mind driving at all. Give him the easier game(as Luka said it was compared to Europe) and modern pace and nobody batting an eye if he took 12 threes?

Drazen would be a problem.

[post]

...

[SouBeachTalents]

I wish we could see Drazen in this spaced out ultimate green light league. Reggie had him as a better shooter than he was but back then even shooters of his caliber played inside and drove a lot:

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/GreatDelayedBobcat-size_restricted.gif


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/GiftedEmbarrassedHoneycreeper-size_restricted.gif



https://thumbs.gfycat.com/FragrantReflectingBufflehead-size_restricted.gif




He might be scoring Luka totals. He’s a much better pure shooter and didn’t mind driving at all. Give him the easier game(as Luka said it was compared to Europe) and modern pace and nobody batting an eye if he took 12 threes?

Drazen would be a problem.
I feel like so many Euro's from the past would thrive in this era; Schrempf, Peja, AK47, Kukoc, Hedo

[post]

https://nba75.jebbit.io/euroteamuk

https://media3.giphy.com/media/eEjf3t9MeTXZM0d91u/giphy.gif?cid=790b76115e304cc65ec3ef6bea737a257fa6 2fc517700c38&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g

[Kblaze8855]

I feel like so many Euro's from the past would thrive in this era; Schrempf, Peja, AK47, Kukoc, Hedo

Detlef was nice as **** and nobody seems to remember:


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/SlimyFrighteningBluemorphobutterfly-size_restricted.gif

[post]

https://nba75.jebbit.io/euroteamuk

https://media3.giphy.com/media/eEjf3t9MeTXZM0d91u/giphy.gif?cid=790b76115e304cc65ec3ef6bea737a257fa6 2fc517700c38&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g

https://i.chzbgr.com/full/3895154176/h5B25E4E8/nothing-but-nyet

[PeroAntic]

Jokic is like two tiers above Pau, lol.

Pau has two rings though

[97 bulls]

I assume he left himself out. That’s what people usually do in those situations.


Far as him vs Jokic and Giannis….it just shows how hard it is to rank Dirk. In theory his lack of total game(relative to them…Jokic being a goat tier passing big and Giannis a DPOY) puts him a notch below….but his downright insane shot making makes up for it. In theory it makes him much easier to win with because he can operate in any situation, close teams out, and make you more dangerous in the playoffs. But on the other hand he lost in 20 of 21 seasons including a couple all time collapses/chokes. If he twists an ankle in 2011 does that prove his style isn’t as effective as one would assume?

It just feels like he would be very easy to win with even though reality didn’t always go along with it.

Do you think Nash, Finley, Jamison, Antione and Jokic would do better than a first round exit? I think maybe they do. But I also think it’s hard to replicate 2011. Do I think Jokic gets shut down like Dirk did vs the Warriors and go out as the mvp largely guarded by wings shooting like 2-11 to lose to an 8 seed? No. But do I think he wins 67 with that team to begin with? Also no. Just hard to make a final ruling. Do I think Dirk drops 50 to closeout a finals while he also made amazing defensive plays look routine? No. I’m sure he wouldn’t.

I don’t know that I’d argue he’s better at basketball than either of them but I don’t know that I would trade him for either of them all in their primes.

Hes just tricky. A better than the sum of his parts type it’s hard to argue about skill by skill. Jokic is better than Dirk at virtually everything but contested jumpers and he’s hard to handle there too.

I might have to conclude Jokic is better skill wise….but Dirks greatest skill is such an amazing fallback plan for an offense to have….I might rather have him.

I say that while also acknowledging that skill also had I suppose the second most seasons ever….not winning(second to Vince).

Like I said it’s just hard. I feeeeeel like Dirk might be better but have a hard time arguing it.

Dirk while great is hard to rank. Where would he rank without 2011? One year has catapulted him into many people's top 20. I've always felt he overrated.

[Chuckbe]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYiubAE5F1Y


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eb6crg2QBrU

[Spuddywebby]

It’s crazy to me how Sarunas Marciulionis is rarely if ever mentioned when speaking on Euro players. He’s in the Hall of Fame, has Olympic gold and probably his greatest legacy, he brought the cot damn euro step to the NBA!! And in the beginning the refs were calling it a walk everytime. He set the table for the Manu’s and Harden’s of the world

[Kawhi_Why_Not]

Jokic is better than Dirk, maybe he’s salty about it. Then again Giannis is better than him too and he ranked him on the first team.

Right now dirk has two playoff runs (06 and 11) that are better then any jokic playoff run. I don't see how jokic is better. Dirk also never played with a player as good as bubble murray

[BigShotBob]

Detlef was nice as **** and nobody seems to remember:


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/SlimyFrighteningBluemorphobutterfly-size_restricted.gif

Literally everyone who watches basketball remembers

[post]

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51S9iBFeWFL._AC_.jpg

https://onmilwaukee.com/images/articles/mk/mkelionstories/mkelionstories_fullsize_story1.jpg

https://pisces.bbystatic.com/image2/BestBuy_US/images/products/3415/34156896_sa.jpg;maxHeight=640;maxWidth=550

[Kblaze8855]

Literally everyone who watches basketball remembers


Nah. I don’t think many think of him at all beyond a weird haircut guy on the Payton kemp Sonics. Prime Detlef?

He rarely gets the credit he should as a pioneer both as a euro and a big do it all forward.

[post]

You could argue first 2-3 blazers years Sabonis was better than Kukoc was in the nba.

considering sabonis was playing handicapped in the nba and put up a 6.7 bpm as a 31 year old rookie

and was doing this when he was younger

https://i.imgflip.com/19jxfn.gif

he'd probably give the clown prince of crime a run for his money

[zeerghit]

considering sabonis was playing handicapped in the nba and put up a 6.7 bpm as a 31 year old rookie

and was doing this when he was younger

https://i.imgflip.com/19jxfn.gif

he'd probably give the clown prince of crime a run for his money

btw in this clip he come in this olympics as tourist they f*cing forced him to play

[Phoenix]

Pau has two rings though

I mean.....are you saying current Joker on the 2009 and 2010 Lakers couldn't duplicate that feat with Kobe? We should be more evolved in basketball discussions by this point. Jokic is clearly better than Pau ever was, multiple times better.

[Phoenix]

Right now dirk has two playoff runs (06 and 11) that are better then any jokic playoff run. I don't see how jokic is better. Dirk also never played with a player as good as bubble murray

And it took him how long to get to those runs? 8 years by 2006 and 13 years by 2011. Joker is in year 7, 27 years old and just become an All-NBA/MVP level talent the last 3 years. For all we know he could have a '2006 or 2011 playoff' Dirk run over the next couple of years.

[90sgoat]

It’s crazy to me how Sarunas Marciulionis is rarely if ever mentioned when speaking on Euro players. He’s in the Hall of Fame, has Olympic gold and probably his greatest legacy, he brought the cot damn euro step to the NBA!! And in the beginning the refs were calling it a walk everytime. He set the table for the Manu’s and Harden’s of the world

Right.

My "play to win" team of euros would be:

PG: Doncic / Sarunas
SG: Drazen / Peja
SF: Schrempf / Giannis
PF: Dirk / Kukoc
C: Sabonis / Jokic

Long, tall, 3 point shooting from every position.

[Kblaze8855]

That team would have to start Giannis to play any defense at all. Sabonis could clog up the lane and block shots of course but Giannis is the only one to put on any opposing star. Especially since he wouldn’t need to worry about foul trouble as much since he wouldn’t be as important to a super team like that as he is to a regular nba one.

The 3 best man to man perimeter defenders there are probably all off the bench.

[Kblaze8855]

Well 2 best. Peja only played D about 10% of the time but when he did he was better than he got credit for.

Really that team needs AK47 more than Kukoc.

[90sgoat]

Well, Luka doesn't need a lot of good defenders to win.

That team would rain 3s for days based on the pick and roll with Sabonis.

Dirk and Drazen would light it up, two of the best 3 point shooters ever, and both Schrempf and Sabonis would be capable of hitting around 40%.

You would literally not be able to stop Doncic doing whatever he wants on the floor.

If you needed some defense, you would bring in Giannis and Sarunas, but having Giannis on the floor would mess up the spacing for Luka.