"The League is in good hands with all of this young talent!" - I completely disagree

[BigShotBob]

Jayson Tatum - Not terribly impressed by him. Needs to up his defense playmaking and finishing. Settle far too often.

Ja Morant - Not too impressed though he's young so I'll wait and see.

Trae Young - Needs to play off-ball more. Needs to up his defense.

Luka - At this point he is who he is. He's gonna pound the ball into the ground and get his numbers but he's got a uphill battle to win anything. Good thing Kidd has everyone else playing team defense though.

All I can think of at the top of my head but there isn't any players with that "it" factor to me aside from Giannis. Embiid is still foul baiting and will always foul bait when the going gets tough, Harden has lost himself, Durant is great but he only has 2-3 great years left, Lebron is done....

Not a fan of Lamelo at all.

Jokic is good just wish he was more mobile and less lumbering.

Devin Booker has taken a good step-forward with his defense and playmaking. Needs to learn to be more poised though. Could win it all this year.

Main thing this comes down to though is that these players wouldn't fare to well if the year was 1992. Lamelo wouldn't be in the league, Jokic would be maybe Sabonis tier (but not prime Sabonis), Trae, Ja, Tatum and Luka would be roleplayers.

Rules need to revert back to making things harder so I can truly see if the league is "talented" or not. But when the refs held their whistles earlier in the year a lot of people's favorite players didn't look as good....

Discuss

[Real Men Wear Green]

You never thought Tatum would be good, don't think that he is any good and will never think that he is any good. He's averaging 27 and 8. There are ways he can get better but fundamentally he is the player that he's going to be for the next 8 to 10 years. So you can continue thinking that he should be a roleplayer while he makes the next 7 All-NBA teams. The problem with being unreasonable is that it renders your opinion worthless.

[Mask the Embiid]

The league is in good hands with Booker and Donovan Mitchell as the future... Most ppl you named on that list arent really the next generation anymore :oldlol:...its their time now

im high on trae
high on lamelo
super high on zion if he cares
mobley and barnes should be great too

[k0kakw0rld]

Jayson Tatum - Not terribly impressed by him. Needs to up his defense playmaking and finishing. Settle far too often.

Ja Morant - Not too impressed though he's young so I'll wait and see.

Trae Young - Needs to play off-ball more. Needs to up his defense.

Luka - At this point he is who he is. He's gonna pound the ball into the ground and get his numbers but he's got a uphill battle to win anything. Good thing Kidd has everyone else playing team defense though.

All I can think of at the top of my head but there isn't any players with that "it" factor to me aside from Giannis. Embiid is still foul baiting and will always foul bait when the going gets tough, Harden has lost himself, Durant is great but he only has 2-3 great years left, Lebron is done....

Not a fan of Lamelo at all.

Jokic is good just wish he was more mobile and less lumbering.

Devin Booker has taken a good step-forward with his defense and playmaking. Needs to learn to be more poised though. Could win it all this year.

Main thing this comes down to though is that these players wouldn't fare to well if the year was 1992. Lamelo wouldn't be in the league, Jokic would be maybe Sabonis tier (but not prime Sabonis), Trae, Ja, Tatum and Luka would be roleplayers.

Rules need to revert back to making things harder so I can truly see if the league is "talented" or not. But when the refs held their whistles earlier in the year a lot of people's favorite players didn't look as good....

Discuss
I completely disagree with your opinion, respectfully.

Giannis is 27 2 MVPs 1 DPOY 1 FMVP
Jokic is 25 1 MVP (back-2back MVP loading)
Luka is 23 (Led his team to their best record since 2010 and 4th seed)
Trae 23 (Conference Final appearance)
Ja 22 First playoff appearance this season (2nd in the west)

What I am saying is they will have time to develop all the crazy things you have mentioned about them that they are lacking.

They made things harder (Trae averages 28 ppg) LOL The man found a way to figure it out.The frauds you are referring to, are well known, trust me. James Frauden

Bruh! Players today are way more skilled than players in the past. Big men can shoot now. Good luck Mutumbo, Lakers Shaq, Ewing, guarding Jokic or KAT at the top of the three-point line. They may not be as physical but they are too quick for most 80s 90s bigs, I am sorry.

[BigShotBob]

You never thought Tatum would be good, don't think that he is any good and will never think that he is any good. He's averaging 27 and 8. There are ways he can get better but fundamentally he is the player that he's going to be for the next 8 to 10 years. So you can continue thinking that he should be a roleplayer while he makes the next 7 All-NBA teams. The problem with being unreasonable is that it renders your opinion worthless.

Don't be a homer and actually learn to address points before you get emotional.

Never said I thought he wasn't going to be any good. I'm just not impressed by him. You throwing stats at me in this era is worthless and you're arguing like an NPC. Would he be averaging 27 and 8 in 1992? No, he wouldn't, not unless he was on a bad team.

He shouldn't be the better that he's going to be moving forward if he wants to improve and play championship basketball. But my litmus test for impressing me isn't winning a championship, it's expending energy and effort on defending, rebounding, scoring and playmaking and doing it all very well.

Tatum doesn't dominate the game in enough facets. If he isn't scoring and getting hot he's rarely picking you apart with his passing or flying around the court on defense. He's not snagging boards or providing leadership. To me he and Jaylen Brown are cogs in the wheel for their team. You only really notice them when things go well and then they stand out. But when it doesn't they kind of fade into the background and watch Marcus Smart chuck up crazy three's.

Anyways I hope he proves me wrong but so far I just don't see it.

[1987_Lakers]

It will be hard for all of those guys to replicate the careers LeBron, Durant, and Curry had once they are gone or shot, but Jokic just had probably the GOAT offensive season for a big man, Embiid is playing at a level not many have seen from the C spot and Giannis will go probably down as a top 5 PF ever. These are the only things I'm certain about.

Who knows how good guys like Tatum, Doncic, Morant etc will eventually be.

The site will be in bad hands once LeBron retires, but the NBA itself I wouldn't worry too much about it. The NBA survived without MJ and it will continue to l do so without LeBron.

[BigShotBob]

I completely disagree with your opinion, respectfully.

Giannis is 27
Jokic is 25
Luka is 23
Trae 23
Ja 22

They made things harder (Trae averages 28 ppg) LOL The man found a way to figure it out.The frauds you are referring to, are well known, trust me. James Frauden

Bruh! Players today are way more skilled than players in the past. Big men can shoot now. Good luck Mutumbo, Lakers Shaq, Ewing, guarding Jokic or KAT at the top of the three-point line. They may not be as physical but they are too quick for most 80s 90s bigs, I am sorry.

Earlier in the season Trae wasn't averging 28..... and the refs softened up in like 2 months.

No. Kat guards himself if he chcuks a 3. They are not "quick" if Steven Adams can guard them just fine. Don't use hyperbole.

[Mask the Embiid]

I completely disagree with your opinion, respectfully.

Giannis is 27
Jokic is 25
Luka is 23
Trae 23
Ja 22

They made things harder (Trae averages 28 ppg) LOL The man found a way to figure it out.The frauds you are referring to, are well known, trust me. James Frauden

Bruh! Players today are way more skilled than players in the past. Big men can shoot now. Good luck Mutumbo, Lakers Shaq, Ewing, guarding Jokic or KAT at the top of the three-point line. They may not be as physical but they are too quick for most 80s 90s bigs, I am sorry.

kockworld youre an idiot.... If we took Ben Simmons from today and dropped him off in the 1960s with his same exact game you would all say after watching highlights of him "he couldn't play in today's game".... "A 6'10 pg who plays off the ball and never shoots.... Who thrives on defense only in a offensive era today wouldnt make....who cant run a pick and roll as the ball handler....he wouldnt even make the league...."

And he's an allstar in todays game....

Same if you dropped jokic or luka with the same exact game in the 80s....no one would believe they could play today...and they can....


Same way if u dropped Magic fking johnson in todays game....he would be draymond green but on steroids double or tripple all his offensive stats... He would still be the best passer in the league and would still get wherever the fk he wants on the court even though he doesnt have fancy handles....bob pettit would still be good today...Michael Jordan would still be good today...Moses Malone would still dominate today




2ldr: shut the **** up

[insight]

Jayson Tatum - Not terribly impressed by him. Needs to up his defense playmaking and finishing. Settle far too often.

Ja Morant - Not too impressed though he's young so I'll wait and see.

Trae Young - Needs to play off-ball more. Needs to up his defense.

Luka - At this point he is who he is. He's gonna pound the ball into the ground and get his numbers but he's got a uphill battle to win anything. Good thing Kidd has everyone else playing team defense though.

All I can think of at the top of my head but there isn't any players with that "it" factor to me aside from Giannis. Embiid is still foul baiting and will always foul bait when the going gets tough, Harden has lost himself, Durant is great but he only has 2-3 great years left, Lebron is done....

Not a fan of Lamelo at all.

Jokic is good just wish he was more mobile and less lumbering.

Devin Booker has taken a good step-forward with his defense and playmaking. Needs to learn to be more poised though. Could win it all this year.

Main thing this comes down to though is that these players wouldn't fare to well if the year was 1992. Lamelo wouldn't be in the league, Jokic would be maybe Sabonis tier (but not prime Sabonis), Trae, Ja, Tatum and Luka would be roleplayers.

Rules need to revert back to making things harder so I can truly see if the league is "talented" or not. But when the refs held their whistles earlier in the year a lot of people's favorite players didn't look as good....

Discuss

Did you think Giannis had the IT factor at 21-22 or 23 years of age?

Trae young is the 1st player since Tiny Archibald and only the 2nd player in NBA history to lead in total points and total assist in a season. What he is doing is literally historic, yet you claim he would be a role player? He has things to work on but that is true for every young player.


No role player in NBA history has EVER scored 60 points at age 24 like Jason Tatum, every young player has flaws what you want to see is growth from season to season and this crop of stars is doing that. .

Luka skills at his size translate to any era, not too many players in the history of the game have his court vision, passing ability and footwork at his size. Was he overhyped? YES but his numbers are undeniable.

Ja is one of the most exciting players to watch, my concern with him will be his ability to stay healthy with his style of play. With that said he still is not a role player and Memphis is the youngest team in the league and are #2 in the west.

It's hard to compare Era's because of the rule changes, and offensive /defensive scheme changes etc, but skill is skill.

[insight]

Earlier in the season Trae wasn't averging 28..... and the refs softened up in like 2 months.

No. Kat guards himself if he chcuks a 3. They are not "quick" if Steven Adams can guard them just fine. Don't use hyperbole.

Not True, Trae was top 3 in scorer at the beginning of the year, his scoring NEVER was affected by the REFS unlike other stars who's numbers really took a dip. PLUS he was more EFFICIENCT, he did it by using the midrange. Trae is an offensive Nuclear weapon, not to many players in the history of the NBA could pass and score like him.

[Kawhi_Why_Not]

I think you missed on a few of them.

Trae has already led his team to the east finals in his first playoff run and who knows what happens if he stays healthy. He's the type that will lead the league in points and assists pretty much every year of his prime. He's a generational talent and would be the best point guard of the 90s with only magic coming close.

Tatum is a 2 way beast 27/8/4 guy. I don't see a better SF in the 90s outside of maybe Pippen.

The rest I agree

[Real Men Wear Green]

Don't be a homer and actually learn to address points before you get emotional. For someone that has actually been watching Tatum you posted nothing that merited a serious reply. You said he doesn't defend. Completely wrong. He's one of the best two way players in the game. That's the opinion of coaches like Greg Popovich. He is part of the best defensive starting five in the league. You have no idea what you're talking about. Playmaking? One of the best at creating his own offense. He was to focused on his own scoring at the start of the year but had improved the last few months and currently averaged 4 assists.


Never said I thought he wasn't going to be any good. I'm just not impressed by him. You throwing stats at me in this era is worthless and you're arguing like an NPC. Would he be averaging 27 and 8 in 1992? No, he wouldn't, not unless he was on a bad team. what do you think the league would do with a 6'10 230lbs forward with the skills of a guard in 1992? People that assume stars of the past couldn't hang with modern talent are being disrespectful but the idea that players have somehow devolved and aren't as good is idiotic.


He shouldn't be the better that he's going to be moving forward if he wants to improve and play championship basketball. But my litmus test for impressing me isn't winning a championship, it's expending energy and effort on defending, rebounding, scoring and playmaking and doing it all very well. You are irrational so your litmus test doesn't matter. You want to argue that a perimeter player averaging 8 rebounds can't rebound? That one of the highest rated defenders can't defend? A 27 ppg scorer can't score well? At some point the problem isn't them, it's you.

[BigShotBob]

The league is in good hands with Booker and Donovan Mitchell as the future... Most ppl you named on that list arent really the next generation anymore :oldlol:...its their time now

im high on trae
high on lamelo
super high on zion if he cares
mobley and barnes should be great too


Not high on Mitchell. He peaked early to me. Hasn't improved in other facets enough.

I like Scottie Barnes I forgot about him. Mobley is good but not terribly impressed but he is young.

[k0kakw0rld]

Earlier in the season Trae wasn't averging 28..... and the refs softened up in like 2 months.

No. Kat guards himself if he chcuks a 3. They are not "quick" if Steven Adams can guard them just fine. Don't use hyperbole.


That's the reality of what you live in and no one can change that about you.

Guard them just fine? Are you kidding me? LOL

You base that off of a couple of possessions and you are talking about guarding them, please!

https://zupimages.net/up/22/15/sgev.jpg (https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=22/15/sgev.jpg)

https://zupimages.net/up/22/15/hrnb.jpg (https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=22/15/hrnb.jpg)

[k0kakw0rld]

kockworld youre an idiot.... If we took Ben Simmons from today and dropped him off in the 1960s with his same exact game you would all say after watching highlights of him "he couldn't play in today's game".... "A 6'10 pg who plays off the ball and never shoots.... Who thrives on defense only in a offensive era today wouldnt make....who cant run a pick and roll as the ball handler....he wouldnt even make the league...."

And he's an allstar in todays game....

Same if you dropped jokic or luka with the same exact game in the 80s....no one would believe they could play today...and they can....


Same way if u dropped Magic fking johnson in todays game....he would be draymond green but on steroids double or tripple all his offensive stats... He would still be the best passer in the league and would still get wherever the fk he wants on the court even though he doesnt have fancy handles....bob pettit would still be good today...Michael Jordan would still be good today...Moses Malone would still dominate today




2ldr: shut the **** up

The bigger idiot is you with your "ifs".
STFU will you.

What does Magic & Ben Simmons have to do with the conversation? We clearly see that Ben Simmons isn't an All-Star caliber player. He is considered because of his superior physicality and defensive prowess. If Ben can play here, obviously Magic can. He can defend but that was not the main topic.

[Kblaze8855]

If you’re gonna be that picky and unrealistic the issue is you not the players. Talking about Lamelo wouldn’t be in the league as if there weren't flashy guys who played no defense then. They just couldn’t shoot threes like he can.

And Jokic in 92 would be the best shooting big in the league, best passing big in the league, a top 5-6 back to the basket scorer, the best ball handling big most had ever seen and be an absolute star.

After the big 3 centers he’d have no real competition at the spot till Shaq and Zo got drafted.

Jokic would put Rony Seikaly, Kevin Willis, and all the other second tier centers of 1992 in the figure four right at half court for the clean submission win.

That guy is a star in every era.

[BigShotBob]

For someone that has actually been watching Tatum you posted nothing that merited a serious reply. You said he doesn't defend. Completely wrong. He's one of the best two way players in the game. That's the opinion of coaches like Greg Popovich. He is part of the best defensive starting five in the league. You have no idea what you're talking about. Playmaking? One of the best at creating his own offense. He was to focused on his own scoring at the start of the year but had improved the last few months and currently averaged 4 assists.

what do you think the league would do with a 6'10 230lbs forward with the skills of a guard in 1992? People that assume stars of the past couldn't hang with modern talent are being disrespectful but the idea that players have somehow devolved and aren't as good is idiotic.

You are irrational so your litmus test doesn't matter. You want to argue that a perimeter player averaging 8 rebounds can't rebound? That one of the highest rated defenders can't defend? A 27 ppg scorer can't score well? At some point the problem isn't them, it's you.

You use too much hyperbole. I was saying his defensive impact his limited by comparison to his own teammate Jaylen Brown. Earlier in the year they were slumping because he couldn't hit the side of a barn and he was playing too selfishly. Thankfully he and his team got it together but that tells me that this team is far too volatile - they can collapse at any moment if Tatum has tunnel vision and doesn't expend more energy getting others involved and doing more for the team.

They haven't "devolved" they are just beneficiaries to softer rules that makes offense easier than ever. It's stated in the rule changes why they were made - to promote more spacing scoring and offense.

He wouldn't be a 27ppg scorer 20 or 30 years ago.

You're funny. Yes Tatum would grab 8 boards a game when he jumps up against behemoths night in and night out. It's just a completely different game.

[Wally450]

Jayson Tatum - Not terribly impressed by him. Needs to up his defense playmaking and finishing. Settle far too often.


If you made these claims last year, I'd be agreeing with you. But this season he's taken a large step forward in the things you said he needs to up. He's become a better playmaker, putting his teammates in easy positions to score. He's also significantly gotten better at finishing. Very rarely do I see him settling for a step back 3 anymore.

[BigShotBob]

That's the reality of what you live in and no one can change that about you.

Guard them just fine? Are you kidding me? LOL

You base that off of a couple of possessions and you are talking about guarding them, please!

https://zupimages.net/up/22/15/sgev.jpg (https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=22/15/sgev.jpg)

https://zupimages.net/up/22/15/hrnb.jpg (https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=22/15/hrnb.jpg)

If Jokic and Kat both average 23-24 points against Steven Adams then I can't imagine what they'd average when there is no defensive 3 seconds and everyone packs the paint and forces them to shoot over the top consistently.

Although Jokic can shoot his impact defensively is limited and he will have to expend a lot of energy guarding the best centers.


Did you think Giannis had the IT factor at 21-22 or 23 years of age?

Trae young is the 1st player since Tiny Archibald and only the 2nd player in NBA history to lead in total points and total assist in a season. What he is doing is literally historic, yet you claim he would be a role player? He has things to work on but that is true for every young player.


No role player in NBA history has EVER scored 60 points at age 24 like Jason Tatum, every young player has flaws what you want to see is growth from season to season and this crop of stars is doing that. .

Luka skills at his size translate to any era, not too many players in the history of the game have his court vision, passing ability and footwork at his size. Was he overhyped? YES but his numbers are undeniable.

Ja is one of the most exciting players to watch, my concern with him will be his ability to stay healthy with his style of play. With that said he still is not a role player and Memphis is the youngest team in the league and are #2 in the west.

It's hard to compare Era's because of the rule changes, and offensive /defensive scheme changes etc, but skill is skill.

No and I wasn't a fan of his game until this year but I still believe his championship last year was a very lucky one.

Different rules and time period. By the numbers you could argue that Trae is a better player than Isiah Thomas, but you'd be dead wrong, and we both know why.

Numbers isn't a good way to assess them. Luka himself admitted that it was easier to score in the NBA than the Euroleague. He's benefiting from softer rules.

Across eras aside if you look at the best of the best across eras it's hard for me to be excited about the players in this era because I believe the game today doesn't encourage them to affect the game on multiple levels.



If you’re gonna be that picky and unrealistic the issue is you not the players. Talking about Lamelo wouldn’t be in the league as if there weren't flashy guys who played no defense then. They just couldn’t shoot threes like he can.

And Jokic in 92 would be the best shooting big in the league, best passing big in the league, a top 5-6 back to the basket scorer, the best ball handling big most had ever seen and be an absolute star.

After the big 3 centers he’d have no real competition at the spot till Shaq and Zo got drafted.

Jokic would put Rony Seikaly, Kevin Willis, and all the other second tier centers of 1992 in the figure four right at half court for the clean submission win.

That guy is a star in every era.

Not being picky just saying that I'm not excited to see certain players.

Not a better ball handler than Hakeem or David Robinson imo. Passing perhaps, would like to see how he'd do with less space and room to operate. Shooting sure I guess if he would be allowed to play that way.

Robinson, Ewing, and Hakeem I assume are the big three you were talking about. Don't sleep on Brad Daughtery though.

Rony and Kevin Willis were tough that's a hard sell.

Main point is that Jokic would be good just not "great" like he's considered now and he wouldn't be an MVP in the 90's like he is now.

[Real Men Wear Green]

You use too much hyperbole. I was saying his defensive impact his limited by comparison to his own teammate Jaylen Brown. Earlier in the year they were slumping because he couldn't hit the side of a barn and he was playing too selfishly. Thankfully he and his team got it together but that tells me that this team is far too volatile - they can collapse at any moment if Tatum has tunnel vision and doesn't expend more energy getting others involved and doing more for the team.

They haven't "devolved" they are just beneficiaries to softer rules that makes offense easier than ever. It's stated in the rule changes why they were made - to promote more spacing scoring and offense.

He wouldn't be a 27ppg scorer 20 or 30 years ago.

You're funny. Yes Tatum would grab 8 boards a game when he jumps up against behemoths night in and night out. It's just a completely different game.
You say things with no justification. How is his defensive impact limited compared to Brown? How would you even know who is the better defender between them? You clearly don't watch the Celtics or know anything about Tatum. Reality is they are both very good defenders that are often asked to guard the same set of players through the course of the game.


You say Tatum couldn't average 27 thirty years ago. Why? "Behemoths?" Average player size has increased over time not gotten smaller. You do realize this don't you? Well maybe you don't. There have been rule changes to help offense but the real change isn't about being unable to plant your foot beneath a jumpshooter, it's about the approach to offense. No one in the 90s is going to attempt 8 threes per game.

[Doomsday Dallas]

https://i.etsystatic.com/16969075/r/il/fb5e2e/2746395724/il_fullxfull.2746395724_3jxy.jpg



This is the new face of the NBA.

80's: Magic & Bird
90's: Jordan
2000's: Shaq & Kobe
2010's: Lebron
2020's: Luka

[NBAGOAT]

kat still gets so much disrespect it's ridiculous. He's one of the best scoring and shooting centers of all time and his defense is fine this year. If it wasnt for jokic, he get some best offensive center considerations but jokic is so absurd with the passing.

to respond to some others

-morant is basically prime rose 2.0 idk how that isnt impressive.
-for trae, dont remember people saying steve nash was unimpressive even though he didnt play too much offball and was a bad defender.
-Yea dallas' offense isnt impressive, you seen their roster right. They have 2 guys who can create their own shot in brunson and dinwiddie. Dont even have good shooting around doncic(shoot under 35% as team)

[Kblaze8855]

Not a better ball handler than Hakeem or David Robinson imo. Passing perhaps


Just that “perhaps” is evidence enough you’re trolling, too biased to really talk to, or downright don’t watch the nba right now so I’ll exit. For whatever reason you aren’t being real with me right now.

[RRR3]

Retarded ass OP said Brad Daugherty is comparable to Jokic lmfao what a dolt

[SATAN]

Main thing this comes down to though is that these players wouldn't fare to well if the year was 1992. Trae, Ja, Tatum and Luka would be roleplayers.



Yep they are Sherman Douglas, Mookie Blaylock, Blue Edwards & Anthony Bonner caliber players.

:facepalm

[1987_Lakers]

Retarded ass OP said Brad Daugherty is comparable to Jokic lmfao what a dolt

Ban if true

[SouBeachTalents]

Not being picky just saying that I'm not excited to see certain players.

Not a better ball handler than Hakeem or David Robinson imo. Passing perhaps, would like to see how he'd do with less space and room to operate. Shooting sure I guess if he would be allowed to play that way.

Robinson, Ewing, and Hakeem I assume are the big three you were talking about. Don't sleep on Brad Daughtery though.

Rony and Kevin Willis were tough that's a hard sell.

Main point is that Jokic would be good just not "great" like he's considered now and he wouldn't be an MVP in the 90's like he is now.
Easily the front runner for worst post of the year.

[RRR3]

Yep they are Sherman Douglas, Mookie Blaylock, Blue Edwards & Anthony Bonner caliber players.

:facepalm
OP is infamous for his stupidity, and the sad part is he isn't trolling.

[ShawkFactory]

Jayson Tatum - Not terribly impressed by him. Needs to up his defense playmaking and finishing. Settle far too often.

Ja Morant - Not too impressed though he's young so I'll wait and see.

Trae Young - Needs to play off-ball more. Needs to up his defense.

Luka - At this point he is who he is. He's gonna pound the ball into the ground and get his numbers but he's got a uphill battle to win anything. Good thing Kidd has everyone else playing team defense though.

All I can think of at the top of my head but there isn't any players with that "it" factor to me aside from Giannis. Embiid is still foul baiting and will always foul bait when the going gets tough, Harden has lost himself, Durant is great but he only has 2-3 great years left, Lebron is done....

Not a fan of Lamelo at all.

Jokic is good just wish he was more mobile and less lumbering.

Devin Booker has taken a good step-forward with his defense and playmaking. Needs to learn to be more poised though. Could win it all this year.

Main thing this comes down to though is that these players wouldn't fare to well if the year was 1992. Lamelo wouldn't be in the league, Jokic would be maybe Sabonis tier (but not prime Sabonis), Trae, Ja, Tatum and Luka would be roleplayers.

Rules need to revert back to making things harder so I can truly see if the league is "talented" or not. But when the refs held their whistles earlier in the year a lot of people's favorite players didn't look as good....

Discuss

I love when someone types a novel but their first point is stupid. Makes it easy so I don't have to read the rest.

Tatum is an excellent defender. Not a high level playmaker just yet but has improved massively in the last 8 months on that front. And he used to settle for 3 but again..in the last 8 months he's had a lightbulb moment there too. He attacks the rim pretty aggresively.

You seem like a narrative over watching basketball guy.

[1987_Lakers]

I love when someone types a novel but their first point is stupid. Makes it easy so I don't have to read the rest.

Tatum is an excellent defender. Not a high level playmaker just yet but has improved massively in the last 8 months on that front. And he used to settle for 3 but again..in the last 8 months he's had a lightbulb moment there too. He attacks the rim pretty aggresively.

You seem like a narrative over watching basketball guy.

Yea, Tatum has been a good defender for years, weird for him to say that.

[ShawkFactory]

Yea, Tatum has been a good defender for years, weird for him to say that.

I used to have the same gripes with Tatum in that he'd just settle and shoot a 27 footer but that hasn't been the case for the last several months. So OP clearly hasn't been watching. Mad about the young talent.

Players evolve and Tatum certainly has.

[Full Court]

There's tons of young talent in the league right now. The NBA is going to be just fine.

[paksat]

players today are very boring, zero style in their games compared to say AI vs vince carter vs tracy mcgrady vs kobe bryant

all SUPER stars that had very different and compelling to watch games.

The only player i've been remotely excited to watch in the last 10 years is kyrie irving. Steph curry is the best shooter ever, but he's still rather boring to watch. No one in the league now is even remotely smooth as prime wade/melo let alone even old man jordan or hakeem.

[90sgoat]

Rules need to revert back to making things harder so I can truly see if the league is "talented" or not.

This is true, but trust me they will, because if they don't then Luka will win like 5 in a row once he gets Gobert. In a league of no defense, there's no one better than Luka.

I feel like the NBA is in pretty good hands tho.

Besides Luka, my second favorite is probably Morant, who is an anti-thesis to Luka with his athleticism, so that's promising. Jokic and Giannis and Embiid will keep on battling it out to be the best big man for a good decade more. It's a Shaq, Duncan thing, with KG/Ben Wallace saying hi.

Then we have lesser players like Tatum and Booker, who while not top tier, will have their seasons when everything's clicking. I like Booker more than Tatum.

Overall, I feel the american talent is not as good as can be and hope the AAU system will be revamped, but from an entertainment point of view, we have plenty of matchups and teams to look out for.

[BarberSchool]

Jayson Tatum - Not terribly impressed by him. Needs to up his defense playmaking and finishing. Settle far too often.

Ja Morant - Not too impressed though he's young so I'll wait and see.

Trae Young - Needs to play off-ball more. Needs to up his defense.

Luka - At this point he is who he is. He's gonna pound the ball into the ground and get his numbers but he's got a uphill battle to win anything. Good thing Kidd has everyone else playing team defense though.

All I can think of at the top of my head but there isn't any players with that "it" factor to me aside from Giannis. Embiid is still foul baiting and will always foul bait when the going gets tough, Harden has lost himself, Durant is great but he only has 2-3 great years left, Lebron is done....

Not a fan of Lamelo at all.

Jokic is good just wish he was more mobile and less lumbering.

Devin Booker has taken a good step-forward with his defense and playmaking. Needs to learn to be more poised though. Could win it all this year.

Main thing this comes down to though is that these players wouldn't fare to well if the year was 1992. Lamelo wouldn't be in the league, Jokic would be maybe Sabonis tier (but not prime Sabonis), Trae, Ja, Tatum and Luka would be roleplayers.

Rules need to revert back to making things harder so I can truly see if the league is "talented" or not. But when the refs held their whistles earlier in the year a lot of people's favorite players didn't look as good....

DiscussWith this kind of specifically detailed critic’s post, from a frame of mind and linguistic perspective which would match Bob’s timeline of experience, there is a 1.8% chance you are actually Robert Horry lol.

[Spurs m8]

Op is a clown...thats all this deserves

Nba is in great hands

[ShawkFactory]

players today are very boring, zero style in their games compared to say AI vs vince carter vs tracy mcgrady vs kobe bryant

all SUPER stars that had very different and compelling to watch games.

The only player i've been remotely excited to watch in the last 10 years is kyrie irving. Steph curry is the best shooter ever, but he's still rather boring to watch. No one in the league now is even remotely smooth as prime wade/melo let alone even old man jordan or hakeem.

You sound like someone who hears a rap song and gets mad that it’s not Led Zeppelin. But you definitely enjoy Eminem going on Lose Yourself.

[BigShotBob]

This is true, but trust me they will, because if they don't then Luka will win like 5 in a row once he gets Gobert. In a league of no defense, there's no one better than Luka.

I feel like the NBA is in pretty good hands tho.

Besides Luka, my second favorite is probably Morant, who is an anti-thesis to Luka with his athleticism, so that's promising. Jokic and Giannis and Embiid will keep on battling it out to be the best big man for a good decade more. It's a Shaq, Duncan thing, with KG/Ben Wallace saying hi.

Then we have lesser players like Tatum and Booker, who while not top tier, will have their seasons when everything's clicking. I like Booker more than Tatum.

Overall, I feel the american talent is not as good as can be and hope the AAU system will be revamped, but from an entertainment point of view, we have plenty of matchups and teams to look out for.

Glad we have one reasonable poster that's not reacting emotionally.

Yes Luka makes it look too easy. The way he's defended night in and night out is migraine inducing. Pick and roll, switch, now a big is onto him, step-back three - good. Or pick and roll, switch, now a little guy is on him, drive and floater/layup/push shot - good + and-one more often than not. And he's big enough to take his own match up down too.

However, defensive intensity isn't there, so he's not dominant on that end. Playmaking is there but off-ball movement and play is almost non-existent. Barely cuts or move when the ball isn't in his hands. I don't want to sound nit-picky but if these are the young talent that the NBA wants to push to me then I'm going to become more and more critical.


With this kind of specifically detailed critic’s post, from a frame of mind and linguistic perspective which would match Bob’s timeline of experience, there is a 1.8% chance you are actually Robert Horry lol.

Lmao I honestly sound like Kenny Smith right now and I hate to come off that way

[BigShotBob]

Just that “perhaps” is evidence enough you’re trolling, too biased to really talk to, or downright don’t watch the nba right now so I’ll exit. For whatever reason you aren’t being real with me right now.

Circumstances won't be the same. He'd be playing a completely different game, that's why I said "perhaps." Not because he's not talented enough to be the best passer, but that the spacing and schemes would be different.

But sure I'm the troll.


Retarded ass OP said Brad Daugherty is comparable to Jokic lmfao what a dolt

You don't even know who he is.



I love when someone types a novel but their first point is stupid. Makes it easy so I don't have to read the rest.

Tatum is an excellent defender. Not a high level playmaker just yet but has improved massively in the last 8 months on that front. And he used to settle for 3 but again..in the last 8 months he's had a lightbulb moment there too. He attacks the rim pretty aggresively.

You seem like a narrative over watching basketball guy.

Love it when people assume that I don't watch players play when I've been watching most teams all year. I'm objective and I don't stan anyone.

See this is the hyperbole. He's not an "excellent" defender. He's serviceable, but he's not flying around the court making plays when his scoring impact is low. He's not shutting down passing lanes or taking the challenge one on one for a key stop - that's Marcus Smart's job or Robert Williams or Al Horford or even Jaylen Brown.

Again, tell me what facitate of the game other than scoring does Tatum dominate in. You can't give me more than that.


Yea, Tatum has been a good defender for years, weird for him to say that.

"Good" is relative but I'm not terribly impressed by him.


players today are very boring, zero style in their games compared to say AI vs vince carter vs tracy mcgrady vs kobe bryant

all SUPER stars that had very different and compelling to watch games.

The only player i've been remotely excited to watch in the last 10 years is kyrie irving. Steph curry is the best shooter ever, but he's still rather boring to watch. No one in the league now is even remotely smooth as prime wade/melo let alone even old man jordan or hakeem.

I don't really want to get into playstyles and aesthetic play but by far Kyrie and KD are the best ones to watch. And you're right the smoothness of a McGrady, Kobe and Wade/Melo are long gone.

Excitement aside I like to see my stars and superstars dominate in 4 or more areas of the game. I just don't see this young talent developing into that right now and it's due to the how the game is played and officiated.

[Axe]

players today are very boring, zero style in their games compared to say AI vs vince carter vs tracy mcgrady vs kobe bryant

all SUPER stars that had very different and compelling to watch games.

The only player i've been remotely excited to watch in the last 10 years is kyrie irving. Steph curry is the best shooter ever, but he's still rather boring to watch. No one in the league now is even remotely smooth as prime wade/melo let alone even old man jordan or hakeem.
'Because i miss muh nostalgia'. :(

Agreed with the bolded part tho.

[ShawkFactory]

Circumstances won't be the same. He'd be playing a completely different game, that's why I said "perhaps." Not because he's not talented enough to be the best passer, but that the spacing and schemes would be different.

But sure I'm the troll.



You don't even know who he is.




Love it when people assume that I don't watch players play when I've been watching most teams all year. I'm objective and I don't stan anyone.

See this is the hyperbole. He's not an "excellent" defender. He's serviceable, but he's not flying around the court making plays when his scoring impact is low. He's not shutting down passing lanes or taking the challenge one on one for a key stop - that's Marcus Smart's job or Robert Williams or Al Horford or even Jaylen Brown.

Again, tell me what facitate of the game other than scoring does Tatum dominate in. You can't give me more than that.



"Good" is relative but I'm not terribly impressed by him.



I don't really want to get into playstyles and aesthetic play but by far Kyrie and KD are the best ones to watch. And you're right the smoothness of a McGrady, Kobe and Wade/Melo are long gone.

Excitement aside I like to see my stars and superstars dominate in 4 or more areas of the game. I just don't see this young talent developing into that right now and it's due to the how the game is played and officiated.

Glad you mentioned that. No, Tatum isn’t excellent when you compare him to like a Rodman or Pippen type long SF defender but he plays that end more than serviceably. He’s long, smart, and he puts effort in there.

No one is going to mistake him for an all-defense guy but given the role he plays on the other end his defense is quite nice.

[BarberSchool]

Glad we have one reasonable poster that's not reacting emotionally.

Yes Luka makes it look too easy. The way he's defended night in and night out is migraine inducing. Pick and roll, switch, now a big is onto him, step-back three - good. Or pick and roll, switch, now a little guy is on him, drive and floater/layup/push shot - good + and-one more often than not. And he's big enough to take his own match up down too.

However, defensive intensity isn't there, so he's not dominant on that end. Playmaking is there but off-ball movement and play is almost non-existent. Barely cuts or move when the ball isn't in his hands. I don't want to sound nit-picky but if these are the young talent that the NBA wants to push to me then I'm going to become more and more critical.



Lmao I honestly sound like Kenny Smith right now and I hate to come off that wayGlad we both agree on the phony LeFrak Loudmouth, and his own excessive use of self-hyping hyperbole.

[BarberSchool]

On a serious note:

Some MAJOR things the league needs to do:

1. To increase fan excitement (read: increase “fast break dunk contest lite” highlights, is brutally punish take fouls.

A take foul, clear path foul, etc should be a tech, a personal, 3 shots and possession.


2. No calls on any and all offense-initiated contact. Let them b!tch.

3. Personal, tech, 2 shots and possession for unnatural arm movements which contact above the neck. Intended or not. Bran’s elbow to Siakam’s face counts. 25g’s and up for repeat offenses.

4. Offensive foul, tech, 2 shots and possession for offense hooking limbs on dribble drives. No calls are not enough embarrassment for these liars.

5. No calls for all baiting. Embiid, KD, Luka, whoever. Let them learn the hard way thru embarrassment & techs.

I’m ok with allowing all the slight carries and slight travels on step backs and hesi’s. We all do it on hesi’s in pickup games. But all this other sh!t needs to be run out of the league, even if it destroys some careers, and fanbases.

[Kblaze8855]

Circumstances won't be the same. He'd be playing a completely different game, that's why I said "perhaps." Not because he's not talented enough to be the best passer, but that the spacing and schemes would be different.

But sure I'm the troll.

A troll, dishonest, or too wrapped up in your point to concede the obvious yes. It’s like saying “Perhaps” when someone says Magic is a better passer than Sam Cassell. It’s good to pretty good vs probably the best ever. It’s only a “Perhaps” to a troll or someone just refusing to acknowledge facts out of not wanting to concede anything. That or just being ignorant of all the players involved….but I don’t think that’s the one. This is just you being what young people often think I am but never have been in reality. An old guy too nostalgic to be fair.

Forget Jokic. Trae Young would be a role player? In a league where Michael Adams was an all star while being smaller, as bad or an even worse defender, a worse passer, and a 32 percent shooter from 3 while taking 6-8 a game like modern players do. Hell Lamelo is better than Michael Adams too. But he’d be out of the league while Adams was an all star in 92.

I know all these guys games and I have more respect for the older players and what they had to do in order to thrive but some of this shit is just being an old hater.

So much so it blunts any legit point you may have…some of which I might agree with if they weren’t all blended up in a milkshake of denial and nostalgia.

Id accept some of your ingredients on their own but you mixed them up into some bullshit with a couple of these takes so I can’t swallow it. You’re as off as any of these younger people. Only they have an excuse. They don’t remember. You should know better than some of these takes and have the maturity to admit some are just emotion not reason.

[Shogon]

I skimmed this thread and saw a bunch of arguments I don't care about, lol.

But anyways... the NBA definitely, without question, does not have the next guy to carry the torch that has that "wow" factor. There doesn't seem to be anyone in the pipeline, either.

Going backwards here to the 80s...

Curry
LeBron
Kobe (I actually don't think he belongs on this list but he has to get mentioned due to the amazing career he had and starpower of being with the Lakers specifically)
Shaq
MJ
Bird/Magic

KD had a stretch there for at least a season that was absolutely must see but I would not say his career overall has been must see.

There are a ton of really good players in today's NBA and the overall talent level might be higher than ever and it certainly is with shooting, but... there is nobody in the league right now that is like "wow you've got to see this guy."

Some people will argue Morant & Luka but they aren't doing shit we haven't seen done before and better and in a more entertaining manner. Giannis is an amazing player but he's not head and shoulders above the rest of the league in terms of how good he is... he is an athletic freak but there's nothing about his game that is like "wow you have to see this guy play."


I guess, simply put, nobody has that star power. We'll know it when we see it, and right now... it's just not there. Hopefully soon, but given how guys are scouted in high school now, it looks doubtful.

[PP34Deuce]

There's no lebron or Kobe or mj but there's a huge collection of skillful talent though. 2 3 head superstar Teams aren't the thing. Teams are basically taking the golden state route with depth

[90sgoat]

Yes Luka makes it look too easy. The way he's defended night in and night out is migraine inducing. Pick and roll, switch, now a big is onto him, step-back three - good. Or pick and roll, switch, now a little guy is on him, drive and floater/layup/push shot - good + and-one more often than not. And he's big enough to take his own match up down too.

However, defensive intensity isn't there, so he's not dominant on that end. Playmaking is there but off-ball movement and play is almost non-existent. Barely cuts or move when the ball isn't in his hands. I don't want to sound nit-picky but if these are the young talent that the NBA wants to push to me then I'm going to become more and more critical.

I think Luka would adjust, his lack of success to begin with was mostly due to being fat and out of shape.

Luka is actually a very good post player, but has yet to learn to play off ball or shoot the midrange fade.

That's mostly because he doesn't have to.

We should probably give these guys the benefit of the doubt, some would be worse with stricter rules, but many would adjust.

[tpols]

The only players who would suffer in the 90s game are the ones who rely on rim running and or foul baiting ie harden giannis trae etc. Players like Luka Tatum Durant Jokic etc. would still be dominant because there were no stars that had their combination of size and outside shooting ability. If you rewatch 90s games a lot of times the defense would sag off guys who had the ball deep outside which makes the blow by harder. The threat of the long ball makes driving easier.

[bullettooth]

It will be hard for all of those guys to replicate the careers LeBron, Durant, and Curry had once they are gone or shot, but Jokic just had probably the GOAT offensive season for a big man, Embiid is playing at a level not many have seen from the C spot and Giannis will go probably down as a top 5 PF ever. These are the only things I'm certain about.

Who knows how good guys like Tatum, Doncic, Morant etc will eventually be.

The site will be in bad hands once LeBron retires, but the NBA itself I wouldn't worry too much about it. The NBA survived without MJ and it will continue to l do so without LeBron.

Top 3 players aren't American. I wonder what it will do to the NBA's popularity outside of USA.

[Charlie Sheen]

kat still gets so much disrespect it's ridiculous. He's one of the best scoring and shooting centers of all time and his defense is fine this year. If it wasnt for jokic, he get some best offensive center considerations but jokic is so absurd with the passing.

to respond to some others

-morant is basically prime rose 2.0 idk how that isnt impressive.
-for trae, dont remember people saying steve nash was unimpressive even though he didnt play too much offball and was a bad defender.
-Yea dallas' offense isnt impressive, you seen their roster right. They have 2 guys who can create their own shot in brunson and dinwiddie. Dont even have good shooting around doncic(shoot under 35% as team)

:applause:

A lot of people gonna look like fools for hanging onto that old narrative about KAT.

[insight]

The only players who would suffer in the 90s game are the ones who rely on rim running and or foul baiting ie harden giannis trae etc. Players like Luka Tatum Durant Jokic etc. would still be dominant because there were no stars that had their combination of size and outside shooting ability. If you rewatch 90s games a lot of times the defense would sag off guys who had the ball deep outside which makes the blow by harder. The threat of the long ball makes driving easier.

Low IQ post, Trae's efficiency was better this year, and he was one of the few stars not affected by the new rules. I guess it's easier to create a narrative than use facts.

[BigShotBob]

Glad you mentioned that. No, Tatum isn’t excellent when you compare him to like a Rodman or Pippen type long SF defender but he plays that end more than serviceably. He’s long, smart, and he puts effort in there.

No one is going to mistake him for an all-defense guy but given the role he plays on the other end his defense is quite nice.

I'm not even trying to compare him to Rodman or Pippen. Between Smart, Horford, Brown and Williams Tatum might be the worst defender in the starting line-up. Obviously those are good to very good defenders but I expected Tatum to be around Brown level of defense by now but it's debatable if he is though I say he's not.

Yes he's serviceable in his role but I'd like to see more.


A troll, dishonest, or too wrapped up in your point to concede the obvious yes. It’s like saying “Perhaps” when someone says Magic is a better passer than Sam Cassell. It’s good to pretty good vs probably the best ever. It’s only a “Perhaps” to a troll or someone just refusing to acknowledge facts out of not wanting to concede anything. That or just being ignorant of all the players involved….but I don’t think that’s the one. This is just you being what young people often think I am but never have been in reality. An old guy too nostalgic to be fair.

Forget Jokic. Trae Young would be a role player? In a league where Michael Adams was an all star while being smaller, as bad or an even worse defender, a worse passer, and a 32 percent shooter from 3 while taking 6-8 a game like modern players do. Hell Lamelo is better than Michael Adams too. But he’d be out of the league while Adams was an all star in 92.

I know all these guys games and I have more respect for the older players and what they had to do in order to thrive but some of this shit is just being an old hater.

So much so it blunts any legit point you may have…some of which I might agree with if they weren’t all blended up in a milkshake of denial and nostalgia.

Id accept some of your ingredients on their own but you mixed them up into some bullshit with a couple of these takes so I can’t swallow it. You’re as off as any of these younger people. Only they have an excuse. They don’t remember. You should know better than some of these takes and have the maturity to admit some are just emotion not reason.

Yes I am nostalgic and if you think I'm being unfair then we can talk actual basketball and have a real discussion or dance around the heart of the subject.

Why are you talking to me like I don't know who Michael Adams is or what team he played for? A lot of players had crazy stat lines that played for the Nuggets in the late 80's and early 90's, and Adams peaked at around 23/10 iirc, albeit on a bad Nuggets team. Fat Lever was better than him though. Is Trae Young a better playmaker than Lever? Rod Strickland? Kevin Johnson? It's hard for me to say that he's definitively better as a playmaker.

I questioned Jokic only due to the circumstances that he's in now is ideal to wrack up assists. The equivalent would be dropping him to a more grit and grind team, would he still be the passer he is now? There's a chance he could be, but there's a chance he couldn't be. He's a good passer but how much of that is based off of the big spacing era?

Too many people are reacting to my points emotionally and I've pissed off every other player stan with my takes but on closer inspection my points have some legitimacy.


I think Luka would adjust, his lack of success to begin with was mostly due to being fat and out of shape.

Luka is actually a very good post player, but has yet to learn to play off ball or shoot the midrange fade.

That's mostly because he doesn't have to.

We should probably give these guys the benefit of the doubt, some would be worse with stricter rules, but many would adjust.

I like him in the post but with a crowded paint he might find it harder.

I don't doubt that they would, but they wouldn't be who they are now.

[insight]

I'm not even trying to compare him to Rodman or Pippen. Between Smart, Horford, Brown and Williams Tatum might be the worst defender in the starting line-up. Obviously those are good to very good defenders but I expected Tatum to be around Brown level of defense by now but it's debatable if he is though I say he's not.

Yes he's serviceable in his role but I'd like to see more.



Yes I am nostalgic and if you think I'm being unfair then we can talk actual basketball and have a real discussion or dance around the heart of the subject.

Why are you talking to me like I don't know who Michael Adams is or what team he played for? A lot of players had crazy stat lines that played for the Nuggets in the late 80's and early 90's, and Adams peaked at around 23/10 iirc, albeit on a bad Nuggets team. Fat Lever was better than him though. Is Trae Young a better playmaker than Lever? Rod Strickland? Kevin Johnson? It's hard for me to say that he's definitively better as a playmaker.

I questioned Jokic only due to the circumstances that he's in now is ideal to wrack up assists. The equivalent would be dropping him to a more grit and grind team, would he still be the passer he is now? There's a chance he could be, but there's a chance he couldn't be. He's a good passer but how much of that is based off of the big spacing era?

Too many people are reacting to my points emotionally and I've pissed off every other player stan with my takes but on closer inspection my points have some legitimacy.
Trae Young is different, and he is doing things that only Hall of Famers have accomplished.


I like him in the post but with a crowded paint he might find it harder.

I don't doubt that they would, but they wouldn't be who they are now.

I loved Strickland and KJ they were both very good players but neither one had the court vision and passing ability of Trae young. Trae literal can make any pass with either hand with pinpoint accuracy. He is a 3 level scorer who has incredible range, he is shooting 38% from 30-34 feet.
Kevin Johnson was more like Ja Morant with incredible quickness and leaping ability for his size. Strickland modern day equivalent is Mike Conley both are underrated.

[WhiteKyrie]

There's tons of young talent in the league right now. The NBA is going to be just fine.
Seriously, OP is smoking rock

[ZionDunks]

Jayson Tatum - Not terribly impressed by him. Needs to up his defense playmaking and finishing. Settle far too often.

Ja Morant - Not too impressed though he's young so I'll wait and see.

Trae Young - Needs to play off-ball more. Needs to up his defense.

Luka - At this point he is who he is. He's gonna pound the ball into the ground and get his numbers but he's got a uphill battle to win anything. Good thing Kidd has everyone else playing team defense though.

All I can think of at the top of my head but there isn't any players with that "it" factor to me aside from Giannis. Embiid is still foul baiting and will always foul bait when the going gets tough, Harden has lost himself, Durant is great but he only has 2-3 great years left, Lebron is done....

Not a fan of Lamelo at all.

Jokic is good just wish he was more mobile and less lumbering.

Devin Booker has taken a good step-forward with his defense and playmaking. Needs to learn to be more poised though. Could win it all this year.

Main thing this comes down to though is that these players wouldn't fare to well if the year was 1992. Lamelo wouldn't be in the league, Jokic would be maybe Sabonis tier (but not prime Sabonis), Trae, Ja, Tatum and Luka would be roleplayers.

Rules need to revert back to making things harder so I can truly see if the league is "talented" or not. But when the refs held their whistles earlier in the year a lot of people's favorite players didn't look as good....

Discuss

Morant is like Iverson was.

Tatum , not much more I think you can ask for. He does defend. Great scorer, closest thing we ever see to Kobe on this planet again.

Trae doesn’t defend a ton but is exciting as hell. Like a curry in my eyes.

Jokic is a back to back mvp. Maybe the best passing big man ever.

What are you looking for?

[ImKobe]

The league is in great hands. We have 3 ATG players in their primes and who knows how great Doncic, Ja, Trae, LaMelo, Zion etc will be in a few years.

[Kblaze8855]

Yes I am nostalgic and if you think I'm being unfair then we can talk actual basketball and have a real discussion or dance around the heart of the subject.



I know for a fact you’re being unfair and probably just dishonest if you put any thought into some of this. There have always been no defense guards and most of them couldn’t touch Trae. Craig Hodges was in the league for years with literally nothing but a jumper but Trae who laps him skill wise and plays at least the same defense is out of the league…..it’s just being fake.





Why are you talking to me like I don't know who Michael Adams is or what team he played for? A lot of players had crazy stat lines that played for the Nuggets in the late 80's and early 90's, and Adams peaked at around 23/10 iirc, albeit on a bad Nuggets team. Fat Lever was better than him though. Is Trae Young a better playmaker than Lever? Rod Strickland? Kevin Johnson?


For one….it doesn’t matter if he is or isn’t when the claim is he wouldn’t even be in the nba. And Adams in 92 was an all star on the Bullets. He actually wasn’t when he was doing like 27/11 and contributing to the worst defense in basketball history. Out there giving up 131 points a night. The Celtics gave them I think 194 points in a preseason game. They gave up 173 I think to the Suns in a real game. Adams was smaller than Trae, a worse ball handler, a somewhat worse playmaker, a much worse shooter, a worse total scorer, and the worst defender on easily the worse defense in history.

But he was an all star in a league you say Young couldn’t even make. It’s flat out ridiculous and your refusal to acknowledge it shows you are more nostalgic about it than rational.


I questioned Jokic only due to the circumstances that he's in now is ideal to wrack up assists. The equivalent would be dropping him to a more grit and grind team, would he still be the passer he is now? There's a chance he could be, but there's a chance he couldn't be. He's a good passer but how much of that is based off of the big spacing era?


And Magic played in a run and gun conference of a run and gun era that is the only time players averaged over 13 assists(several of them) and all the assist records come from. Sam peaked during one of the slowest eras and easily the best defensive era in history. Means absolutely nothing to anyone with eyes. Magic made plays Sam couldn’t and Jokic is absolutely the Magic Johnson of centers. The closest true centers from the past are largely stationary guys like Walton, Wilt, Divac, and Sabonis who rarely made a pass while dribbling in their best playmaking days. Wilt had the athleticism to do it but the 4 clips of it don’t show how he generally played. The only people really comparable are the skilled power forwards who slipped over to the 5 at times. Webber. KG. Maybe even Juwan Howard, Antione Walker, and Draymond. And 4 of them were part time small forwards.

No true center has ever moved the ball either stationary or off the dribble like Jokic and acting like it’s questionable if he was better at it than guys who took years to learn to pass out of a double team? Those were quick dump off passers…find the open shooter on a late double passers for the most part.

Jokic is coming down hitting guards with moving crossovers, going behind the back around the help, and throwing balls through keyholes to smack open teammates in the face who were in disbelief the ball even got there. He’s the greatest playmaking true center in history and if he isn’t he’s on a very short list Hakeem and David weren’t put on at the time.

This is like saying Hakeem and David are possibly better defenders than Clint Capela. It doesn’t matter they were in an era of defensive intensity, more physical play, and driving that resulted in more blocks. You use your eyes it’s a stupid comparison. There is no maybe. No possibly. No probably.

An honest fan knows they were factually better defenders than Jokic and and Jokic is a better passer. Not being able to face obvious truths like that is what ruins your credibility on the subject.





Too many people are reacting to my points emotionally and I've pissed off every other player stan with my takes but on closer inspection my points have some legitimacy.

Whatever truth there may have been was covered by a coating of bias too thick to taste it.

All this is? Treating those of us old enough to remember the 80s and 90s like we are stupid and lying to those too young to know better. It’s exactly the kinda shit that makes young people ignore the “old heads” like us to begin with.

[Axe]

The league is in great hands. We have 3 ATG players in their primes and who knows how great Doncic, Ja, Trae, LaMelo, Zion etc will be in a few years.
Zion? :yaohappy:

[Kblaze8855]

Off the top of my head Zion is the fourth number one pick to miss the entirely of one of his first few seasons since 2009. One of them missed most of the first 3. Of the 3….one is a borderline MVP and the other two have a combined 9 all star appearances I think. This isn’t the old days. They fix a lot of these guys and take great precautions. It will be a while before his story is complete barring something crazy.

[Im Still Ballin]

The '70s was the most defensive era IMO. It's actually why they introduced the Illegal Defense rules at the start of the '80s; to open up to paint.

[StrongLurk]

OP needs to accept that he has aged out of watching the NBA and just move on.

This isn't a shot at OP by the way, pretty much anyone over 30 is casually watching the NBA and anyone over 40 absolutely hates the current NBA. But this is what happens to all generations. Guys who watched the NBA in the 60's often hated the 90's NBA, etc.

As for me? I can't see myself watching the NBA in the next 5-10 years. Hell I barely watch now except for the playoffs.

[Wally450]

Jayson Tatum - Not terribly impressed by him. Needs to up his defense playmaking and finishing. Settle far too often.

Damn, what a game by Tatum today. Getting teammates involved, playing stellar defense, and the game winner.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Damn, what a game by Tatum today. Getting teammates involved, playing stellar defense, and the game winner.

I don't OP acknowledges what Tatum did today. After all he's been ignoring what Tatum he's been doing all season why stop now?

[FKAri]

OP needs to accept that he has aged out of watching the NBA and just move on.

This isn't a shot at OP by the way, pretty much anyone over 30 is casually watching the NBA and anyone over 40 absolutely hates the current NBA. But this is what happens to all generations. Guys who watched the NBA in the 60's often hated the 90's NBA, etc.

As for me? I can't see myself watching the NBA in the next 5-10 years. Hell I barely watch now except for the playoffs.

I am almost completely done with basketball after it being a big part of my life in school, the playground and in terms of watching. I've been slowly losing interest since around 2012. It's no longer my favorite sport.

[3ba11]

I think there's few good contested shotmakers in the league because the spacing doesn't require repeated contested shots every possession like previous eras

Kyrie, KD, Jokic, maybe Booker and Tatum

The wide open spacing lets everyone else get numbers without actually having elite shot-making capability.

[8Ball]

Giannis, Jokic, Luka have talent to make the top 10 all time.

League is in great hands.