The "comp" argument weaponizes having weaker teams than expected.... [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

3ba11

04-13-2022, 01:37 PM

if you're the preseason favorite

i.e. you were expected to have the best team but now you're complaining about another team being better.

Klay/Dray weren't even all-stars heading into the 15' season, while Kyrie/Love were perennial all-stars - that's why Lebron had the preseason favorite from 2011-2016 and the only super-team in the league (3 perennial all-stars & 1st options) until KD joined Warriors.

Btw, only a weak brand of ball causes favored talent to fall to underdog or loser like when Lebron's preseason favorites fell to Finals underdog or loser for 6 straight years (11-16'), except the Ray Allen miracle.

SouBeachTalents

04-13-2022, 01:44 PM

So you’ve said.

Hey Yo

04-13-2022, 01:45 PM

All lies as usual

Nothing to see here folks.

bison

04-13-2022, 01:46 PM

When are you gonna tell us the secret key that would have saved the lakers season? You said you’d tell us once the lakers were eliminated. Well?

3ba11

04-13-2022, 01:46 PM

So you’ve said.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ConcernedClumsyIndigowingedparrot-max-1mb.gif

3ba11

04-13-2022, 01:48 PM

When are you gonna tell us the secret key that would have saved the lakers season? You said you’d tell us once the lakers were eliminated. Well?

You can't have a 2 point guard lineup - eliminate that, and you'll maximize the Lakers' talent.

So only 1 guy can play PG - Lebron or Westbrook - I choose Lebron because that's how they won in 2020

Or you could put Lebron off-ball in a Karl Malone roll - yeah that isn't his game but the triangle wasn't Jordan's game so it's called COACHING - vogel was paid big bucks to do it... and putting bron off-ball wouldn't be worse than what happened this season (no play-in)

1987_Lakers

04-13-2022, 01:50 PM

Magic and Norm Nixon

Johnny32

04-13-2022, 01:50 PM

The autistic window licker has no clue how betting odds work. She also has never heard of injuries, the buyout market, or the trade deadline.

Hey Yo

04-13-2022, 02:05 PM

3ba11

04-13-2022, 02:14 PM

I see the OP must have gotten his ass handed to him by changing his criteria from one ball dominant PG to 2.

Not long ago he also changed what he defined as an organic built team.

When he has to constantly change his views and definitions..... you know he's gotten his ass handed to him numerous of times.

My first posts on ISH were about Lebron's suboptimal 2 point guard lineups

And yes, ball-dominators and PG's win less than off-ball players and need far more help

Both statements are true - point guards win less and 2 point guard lineups are the worst brand ever that needs the most help

3ba11

04-13-2022, 02:21 PM

Magic and Norm Nixon

Time of possession (hold-time) is the math that drives and confirms this theory

We don't have hold-time stats for Magic and Norm, so we don't know if they were infact 2 guys with a point guard hold-time.

Otoh, we have the hold-time stats for today's 2 point guard lineups like Harden/CP3 or Luka/DSJ or Lebron's lineups - they're all horrifically low in team assists - this is magnified in the Finals where Lebron's 2 point guard lineups are the only team in Finals history to get MASSIVELY out-assisted by the opponent regularly

Btw, I think there's something about having an all-time center leading the team that affects the Lakers' assist numbers, and also the fact that Magic is the goat passer, which includes being the goat QUICK passer (upon the catch).. His goat passing (quick passing) trickled down to teammates - the whole team was diming

Phoenix

04-13-2022, 02:42 PM

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b2/79/66/b27966140db68d0621628f2309f8a443.gif
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b2/79/66/b27966140db68d0621628f2309f8a443.gif
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b2/79/66/b27966140db68d0621628f2309f8a443.gif
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b2/79/66/b27966140db68d0621628f2309f8a443.gif

3ba11

04-13-2022, 02:54 PM

Phoenix

04-13-2022, 02:54 PM

Wally450

04-13-2022, 03:00 PM

OP said he dunked on Zach Randolph...

3ba11

04-13-2022, 03:05 PM

OP said he dunked on Zach Randolph...

I did

4 times

in a row

in 1-on-1

when he was a sophomore HS all-american

I also played with his older brother who was our starting PG - a natural leader that everyone and Zach looked up to

SpaceJam

04-13-2022, 07:20 PM

I did

4 times

in a row

in 1-on-1

when he was a sophomore HS all-american

I also played with his older brother who was our starting PG - a natural leader that everyone and Zach looked up to

Roger? The one who was killed in a shooting?

3ba11

04-13-2022, 10:01 PM

Roger? The one who was killed in a shooting?

No his older brother Hilton ("Hippy")

RIP Roger . He was good dude and had crazy hops in 6th grade.. super smooth & easy

Axe

04-14-2022, 01:07 AM

Stfu andrew

Ne 1

04-14-2022, 09:56 AM

Being a preseason favorite means nothing, being an allstar years before or even the prior year before means nothing, being a former MVP means nothing. The only thing that matters in the season you are in is the season you are in. Being a perennial all star means nothing if your riding the bench for 56 games or a shadow of your former self.

Ne 1

04-14-2022, 10:05 AM

Btw Kyrie Irving wasn't a "perennial All-Star" yet either and both of those "perennial All-Stars" were injured in the 2015 finals

tpols

04-14-2022, 11:01 AM

Magic and Norm Nixon

The 1982 Lakers were the #1 ranked assist team. In fact, they averaged just as many assists as the GOAT assist team ~ the 2016 Warriors. So their chemistry was totally dominant. What you don't get is that Magic was a true GOAT passer and teammate elevator. LeBron uses his teammates to set himself up. Magic worked in an opposite manner. He was clearly way better at making others better and feeding guys according to their strengths which is why he fielded dynasty teams.

1987_Lakers

04-14-2022, 11:16 AM

The 1982 Lakers were the #1 ranked assist team. In fact, they averaged just as many assists as the GOAT assist team ~ the 2016 Warriors. So their chemistry was totally dominant. What you don't get is that Magic was a true GOAT passer and teammate elevator. LeBron uses his teammates to set himself up. Magic worked in an opposite manner. He was clearly way better at making others better and feeding guys according to their strengths which is why he fielded dynasty teams.

We fielded dynasty teams because we had more talent than any other team in the NBA most years. The fact that we were 62-42 in the games without Magic Johnson from '80-'89 shows how much talent we had.

And going by 3ball's retarded logic, McAdoo went from a 20 ppg player to a 12 ppg player with the Lakers, I'm sure Magic diminished McAdoo. :lol

tpols

04-14-2022, 11:21 AM

We fielded dynasty teams because we had more talent than any other team in the NBA most years. The fact that we were 62-42 in the games without Magic Johnson from '80-'89 shows how much talent we had.

And going by 3ball's retarded logic, McAdoo went from a 20 ppg player to a 12 ppg player with the Lakers, I'm sure Magic diminished McAdoo. :lol

The Lakers were great even in the late 80s when Kareem wasn't Kareem anymore. So that doesnt check out. Everybody knows Magic was a GOAT teammate elevator. Except you apparently. Where as LeBron craters star talent more often than not.

1987_Lakers

04-14-2022, 11:27 AM

The Lakers were great even in the late 80s when Kareem wasn't Kareem anymore. So that doesnt check out. Everybody knows Magic was a GOAT teammate elevator. Except you apparently. Where as LeBron craters star talent more often than not.

Of course he made teammates better, but are you really gonna disregard the fact that that we also had Kareem, Worthy, Cooper, Nixon, McAdoo, Scott, & Wilkes throughout the 80's? 4 of those guys are in the hall of fame, Cooper is one of the best defensive guards ever, Nixon was all-star level & Scott in his prime was dropping 20 points a game.

Nobody had our talent throughout the 80's.

tpols

04-14-2022, 12:02 PM

Of course he made teammates better, but are you really gonna disregard the fact that that we also had Kareem, Worthy, Cooper, Nixon, McAdoo, Scott, & Wilkes throughout the 80's? 4 of those guys are in the hall of fame, Cooper is one of the best defensive guards ever, Nixon was all-star level & Scott in his prime was dropping 20 points a game.

Nobody had our talent throughout the 80's.

Im not disregarding it, but Magic was leading Finals teams without some of those guys while he had AIDS in the 90s. The guy was simply an awesome leader and teammate elevator. Sometimes I feel like all his laughing and smiling is contrived but if I were in his presence I feel like it would even elevate me.

1987_Lakers

04-14-2022, 12:17 PM

Im not disregarding it, but Magic was leading Finals teams without some of those guys while he had AIDS in the 90s. The guy was simply an awesome leader and teammate elevator. Sometimes I feel like all his laughing and smiling is contrived but if I were in his presence I feel like it would even elevate me.

AIDS? lol

3ba11

04-15-2022, 05:51 PM

The Lakers were great even in the late 80s when Kareem wasn't Kareem anymore. So that doesnt check out. Everybody knows Magic was a GOAT teammate elevator. Except you apparently. Where as LeBron craters star talent more often than not.

Lebron's only way to get elite assist levels is through sheer ball-dominance and predictable/exploitable "1-4" basketball (1 ball-dominator and 4 standing teammates), while Magic could get elite assist levels wherever you put him (post, off-ball) - this matters because when Magic started in the frontcourt and didn't start at PG (like the 80' Finals), he didn't dominate the ball - he would actually play forward, so there was no 2 PG lineup and low assist team... Magic was playing a lower hold-time, Draymond role on those early Lakers, not a high-hold-time PG role like Lebron