2010 Shaq vs 1997 Rodman

[3ba11]

Shaq destroys him across the board in regular season and playoffs (BPM, WS/48, VORP, PER)

Rodman averaged 3/8 for the entire 97' Playoffs and wasn't the starter for the 98' Playoffs

Shaq was favored to win the title in 2010 and had homecourt advantage - Jordan would win a title or 2 with 2010 Shaq

[ShawkFactory]

Shaq probably.

Rodman was still a high level defensive player and "energy guy" willing to dive for 50/50 balls and in general muck things up. Plus he could give you more minutes. But wasn't he kind of hurt?

[3ba11]

Shaq probably.

Rodman was still a high level defensive player and "energy guy" willing to dive for 50/50 balls and in general muck things up. Plus he could give you more minutes. But wasn't he kind of hurt?


By 97' and 98', Rodman was the same trash that he was for the 99' Lakers but no be noticed because Da Bulls (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=trCPqTGhGjg).

[ShawkFactory]

By 97' and 98', Rodman was the same trash that he was for the 99' Lakers but no be noticed because Da Bulls (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=trCPqTGhGjg).

Shaq retired in 2011

[3ba11]

Shaq retired in 2011


Shaq was still a starter but didn't need the money

Rodman wasn't the starter in the 98' Playoffs but had to trudge forward because he was broke.. literally (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H4ECzWg-flc)

[97 bulls]

Dennis Rodman Led the league in rebounds in 97 and 98, while shutting down Karl Malone in 98.

[Norcaliblunt]

Both are overrated because of their personalities. Yea they are great players but they wouldn’t be as remembered if it wasn’t for the movies, commercials, and shenanigans. Giannis, Embid, and Jokic are all going to need to dye their hair, and sell out to Hollywood if they ever wanna get any real credit and long lasting hype.

[Axe]

No rodman, no 2nd three-peat.

No shaq, no three-peat.

[Baller789]

No rodman, no 2nd three-peat.

No shaq, no three-peat.

And water is wet.

[ImKobe]

Put 2010 Shaq with Jordan and he's a ****ing weapon. Shaq (a big man with 0 range) is the worst fit for a player like Bran, who relies on spacing and who can't play off the ball himself.

[3ba11]

No rodman, no 2nd three-peat.





Jordan already 3-peated with Horace Grant (11/8)

So the historical record confirms that he won with role players at PF that others failed to win with - Shaq & Penny were swept with Ho Grant and Robinson was demolished with Rodman in 95'..

No one wanted Rodman after 95' - he was an outcast and "problem player".. but Jordan said it was okay and gave him a 2nd chance.. it's all common knowledge and well-documented historical record

[Axe]

But i said second three-peat :facepalm

[3ba11]

But i said second three-peat :facepalm


If he won with Horace, he can win with the majority of PF's or bums that average 3/8 on 35% for the entire run

the historical record confirms that he won with role players at PF that others failed to win with - Shaq & Penny were swept with Ho Grant and Robinson was demolished with Rodman in 95'..

No one wanted Rodman after 95' - he was an outcast and "problem player".. but Jordan said it was okay and gave him a 2nd chance.. it's all common knowledge and well-documented historical record

[Shaquille O'Neal]

if it wasn’t for the movies
I dare you to download and watch "Simon Sez" with Rodman and Dane Cook. I did about 15 years ago. Still mad about the time wasted.

[ImKobe]

Jordan already 3-peated with Horace Grant (11/8)

So the historical record confirms that he won with role players at PF that others failed to win with - Shaq & Penny were swept with Ho Grant and Robinson was demolished with Rodman in 95'..

No one wanted Rodman after 95' - he was an outcast and "problem player".. but Jordan said it was okay and gave him a 2nd chance.. it's all common knowledge and well-documented historical record

Yep. And Rodman wasn't even that committed to playing winning basketball after that '96 run. It's all documented and we all watched The Last Dance. Rodman was still a headcase in Chicago and far from his prime self by '97 & '98. He turned 37 years old in that last Playoff run as well and his career was basically over after that team broke up. He averaged less than 5 points a game on 37% shooting in the last two Playoff runs while playing 28-34 ppg and Jordan still 3-Peated.

[ShawkFactory]

Yep. And Rodman wasn't even that committed to playing winning basketball after that '96 run. It's all documented and we all watched The Last Dance. Rodman was still a headcase in Chicago and far from his prime self by '97 & '98. He turned 37 years old in that last Playoff run as well and his career was basically over after that team broke up. He averaged less than 5 points a game on 37% shooting in the last two Playoff runs while playing 28-34 ppg and Jordan still 3-Peated.

Why even mention scoring when talking about Rodman? You guys are talking about documentation of shit...Rodman has stated plenty of times that his objective wasn't to score. He often took pride in the fact that he could impact a game without shooting at all. That was literally his thing.

Talking about ppg with him makes absolutely no sense.

[ImKobe]

Why even mention scoring when talking about Rodman? You guys are talking about documentation of shit...Rodman has stated plenty of times that his objective wasn't to score. He often took pride in the fact that he could impact a game without shooting at all. That was literally his thing.

Talking about ppg with him makes absolutely no sense.

So MJ had a below-average 2nd scoring option and another player who didn't score on top of mediocre help at the 5? And he 3-Peated with that?? That's some GOAT shit right there.

It's not just the ppg, but I wanted to highlight how useless he was as a scoring option, and obviously his rebounding numbers took a hit as well and he was OLD. He played a key role on D but he wasn't a star-level player. You kind of have to take all of that into account when talking about the quality of help MJ had on his teams. Yes, he had solid defenders around him but no other star's ever carried an offense the way he did with the help that he had.

[ShawkFactory]

So MJ had a below-average 2nd scoring option and another player who didn't score on top of mediocre help at the 5? And he 3-Peated with that?? That's some GOAT shit right there.

It's not just the ppg, but I wanted to highlight how useless he was as a scoring option, and obviously his rebounding numbers took a huge hit as well and he was OLD. He played a key role on D but he wasn't a star-level player.

I mean I think that MJ is the GOAT so I'm not sure what the point of this post was. You don't need to troll when you get called out on being dishonest and/or stupid.

[ImKobe]

I mean I think that MJ is the GOAT so I'm not sure what the point of this post was. You don't need to troll when you get called out on being dishonest and/or stupid.

I'm responding in the context of this thread.


If he won with Horace, he can win with the majority of PF's or bums that average 3/8 on 35% for the entire run

the historical record confirms that he won with role players at PF that others failed to win with - Shaq & Penny were swept with Ho Grant and Robinson was demolished with Rodman in 95'..

No one wanted Rodman after 95' - he was an outcast and "problem player".. but Jordan said it was okay and gave him a 2nd chance.. it's all common knowledge and well-documented historical record

[ShawkFactory]

I'm responding in the context of this thread.

Why..

[Axe]

Why even mention scoring when talking about Rodman? You guys are talking about documentation of shit...Rodman has stated plenty of times that his objective wasn't to score. He often took pride in the fact that he could impact a game without shooting at all. That was literally his thing.

Talking about ppg with him makes absolutely no sense.
The bulls were successful during rodman's three-consecutive season stay rt (otherwise they wouldn't even three-peat at all) but despite that, it's hella funny that other users here think he's one of the scapegoats for not being a renowned selfish offensive player. :oldlol:

I swear it's hilarious how they think this way by valuing ppg too much.

[3ba11]

The bulls were successful during rodman's three-consecutive season stay rt (otherwise they wouldn't even three-peat at all) but despite that, it's hella funny that other users here think he's one of the scapegoats for not being a renowned selfish offensive player. :oldlol:

I swear it's hilarious how they think this way by valuing ppg too much.


Old Rodman wouldn't be playable in most lineups - teams can't win a title playing 4 on 5 with old rodman

Only MJ could win multiple chips without juggernaut scoring help - everyone else needed all-time elite scorers at sidekick and 3rd/4th scoring options, whereas MJ was the only go-to player on his team.

Heck, even Hakeem needed a boss like Drexler to get multiple chips

[97 bulls]

Old Rodman wouldn't be playable in most lineups - teams can't win a title playing 4 on 5 with old rodman

Only MJ could win multiple chips without juggernaut scoring help - everyone else needed all-time elite scorers at sidekick and 3rd/4th scoring options, whereas MJ was the only go-to player on his team.

Heck, even Hakeem needed a boss like Drexler to get multiple chips

Rodman won two other titles without MJ playing thr same way. In fact, his team beat MJs Bulls to get those titles. SMDH.

[3ba11]

Rodman won two other titles without MJ. In fact, his team beat MJs Bulls to get those titles. SMDH.


That was peak Rodman that averaged double figures over a 3-year period (88-90')

Otherwise, Rodman made teams play 4 on 5 offensively and only MJ could win with that Rodman.. MVP Robinson couldn't win with Rodman in 95', while Shaq couldn't win with Horace Grant that year too, so only MJ could win with these low-scoring bigs

[Axe]

Old Rodman wouldn't be playable in most lineups - teams can't win a title playing 4 on 5 with old rodman

Only MJ could win multiple chips without juggernaut scoring help - everyone else needed all-time elite scorers at sidekick and 3rd/4th scoring options, whereas MJ was the only go-to player on his team.

Heck, even Hakeem needed a boss like Drexler to get multiple chips
At least rodman won more rings for a team that drafted him than kobe ever did in their careers. Let that sink in for a while, andrew. :roll:

[3ba11]

At least rodman won more rings for a team that drafted him than kobe ever did in their careers. Let that sink in for a while, andrew. :roll:


It's kind of amazing that Shaq lucked out and got Kobe - the triangle requires non-ball-dominant bailouts throughout the game (goat quick-iso ability)... So Shaq got the 1 guy that successfully copied the quick-iso footwork MJ invented to win with the triangle

Who knew that Shaq/Phil were getting the one guy they could win with (MJ or his clone Kobe)

[Hey Yo]

That was peak Rodman that averaged double figures over a 3-year period (88-90')

Otherwise, Rodman made teams play 4 on 5 offensively and only MJ could win with that Rodman.. MVP Robinson couldn't win with Rodman in 95', while Shaq couldn't win with Horace Grant that year too, so only MJ could win with these low-scoring bigs

If 88-90 was peak Rodman ..... then what's it say about the state of the league itself when he still led in rebounding 96-98?

[3ba11]

If 88-90 was peak Rodman ..... then what's it say about the state of the league itself when he still led in rebounding 96-98?


Drummond led the league in rebounding a bunch - probably the best rebounder of today's era

Lebron couldn't do shit with Drummond, while KD is about to go to war with him as a primary contributor

It's called brand of ball - Lebron's skillset disengages bigs like Drummond or Love and reduces their rebounding, or traps other teammates in spot-up roles

[Hey Yo]

Yep, dodge the question cause you know the league was watered down bullshit then.

[Axe]

It's kind of amazing that Shaq lucked out and got Kobe - the triangle requires non-ball-dominant bailouts throughout the game (goat quick-iso ability)... So Shaq got the 1 guy that successfully copied the quick-iso footwork MJ invented to win with the triangle

Who knew that Shaq/Phil were getting the one guy they could win with (MJ or his clone Kobe)
Kobe also never led the original team that drafted him to the finals. At least shaq did once with the magic during his third year in the league.

[3ba11]

Yep, dodge the question cause you know the league was watered down bullshit then.


Based on your logic, today's league is watered down because Drummond is the best rebounder of the era

[3ba11]

Kobe also never led the original team that drafted him to the finals. At least shaq did once with the magic during his third year in the league.


Kobe cut his teeth and learned brand of ball with Shaq from 97-99'

After learning the best brand of ball (required of organic winners), they started winning in 2000

So Kobe knows how to win (brand of ball... organic), and also has the elite jumpshooting skill needed to defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load in playoffs and Finals of title run).. For these reasons (knowing how to win and defeating max defensive attention) Kobe is superior to Lebron

[Axe]

Kobe cut his teeth and learned brand of ball with Shaq from 97-99'

After learning the best brand of ball (required of organic winners), they started winning in 2000

So Kobe knows how to win (brand of ball... organic), and also has the elite jumpshooting skill needed to defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load in playoffs and Finals of title run).. For these reasons (knowing how to win and defeating max defensive attention) Kobe is superior to Lebron
So you mean to say that kobe had help too right? Ah ok.

[97 bulls]

That was peak Rodman that averaged double figures over a 3-year period (88-90')

Otherwise, Rodman made teams play 4 on 5 offensively and only MJ could win with that Rodman.. MVP Robinson couldn't win with Rodman in 95', while Shaq couldn't win with Horace Grant that year too, so only MJ could win with these low-scoring bigs

Rodman has never been a scorer lol. He an alltime great defender and rebounder. He didn't score more with the Bulls because it wasn’t needed.

[Baller789]

Watching the Bronies gang up on 3ball whilst being OT is :lol