Did Lebron drop out of anyone's Top 10 all-time now after this season?

[Shaquille O'Neal]

This thread is for people who started watching basketball earlier than 2014.

It's hard to calculate all the L's this year, but the highlights include:

Playoff extended permanently top 10 have a chance; Lakers only reach #11
Lakers record this year was 33-49, or 40.24%. That's still better than Lebron's finals record, which is 22/55, or .40%.
4 future hall of famers on his team - Westbook, Davis, Howard, Anthony. Only Davis was out more than he was in. 11th place?
Gunning for scoring title instead of trying to play winning basketball. Failed to even qualify and was not in the lead when he decided to sit at the end.
Got fans tossed at Indiana because...feelings.
Dumb tweet early season about "Keep talking about my squad" that he deleted.
Dumb promo video highlighting all the "superstars" on the team. Did not sniff playoffs.
Multiple commentators commenting about Lebron not running back past half court quite often in the games. Mark Jackson "And this is something that needs to be addressed"
15 or so games he could have closed but folded
*Only team (1985+) to have been picked as the favorite in their conference to not even make the playoffs. Ever.

So I've had him from 6-9 all-time, it varies. Can't put him above GOAT Jordan, Russell, Wilt, Shaq, Timmy, Bird, Magic, Kareem.

I think the only thing left is the Lebron vs. Kobe debate as LeGED has cemented himself now outside of the very best of the best. I'll take Kobe, because 5 beats 4. Also I value competition and effort more than just a big muscular linebacker dude with few skills, stiff-arm, crab dribble spin-moves and no clutch gene.

Also the 0 for 8 in Finals game winners - even the biggest LeHomers can't have that dude in their top 3 anymore, right? Poll reflected for this.

[SATAN]

Mods?

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Did I speak any untruths? I noticed you didn't vote. Sorry I didn't add a #20th all time or lower option. Next time, bud.

[John_Connor]

lebron is right behind kobe at 6 or 7th all time or he's right behind kobe at 3rd all time. both depends on how much you value how a guy dominated an inferior era. and in that case George mikan should also be above both if you have Russell ahead of them

I'm the most fair and honest guy on this board. always have been

[TheCorporation]

Hmm let me see here. I'll just check the Playoff ranking system and oh--


https://i.postimg.cc/j5xHFvqz/Le7631._Unbreakable.png




Yep, still unbreakable. Still top 1. Thanks for playing.

[3ba11]

His non-elite jumpshooting skill that can't defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load in Finals, aka needs juggernaut scoring help) and never learned how to win (brand of ball.. organic) was NEVER in my top 10 and everything I've ever said about Lebron got a big boost by this season and was confirmed by this season

[John_Connor]

Hmm let me see here. I'll just check the Playoff ranking system and oh--


https://i.postimg.cc/j5xHFvqz/Le7631._Unbreakable.png




Yep, still unbreakable. Still top 1. Thanks for playing.

you've only ever done a disservice to lebron with your all time playoff points shtick. it just makes lebron look weak


kobe beat 24 teams with 50+ wins to make 7 finals and win 5 titles with 5k points

jordan beat 20 teams with 50+ wins to make 6 finals and win 6 titles with 5k points

lebron beat 14 teams with 50+ wins to make 10 finals from a weak conference and luck out 4 titles from bail outs, colluding, suspensions and bubbles with 7k points from using steroids for more longevity


I have him right behind kobe because most of this shit is meaningless when you simply watch the games. the eye test will tell you that lebron was a notch below kobe and jordan but a notch above bird and magic

he was great. but not the best

[Manny98]

No I had him 2nd before the season started and he remains 2nd all time in my eyes

[Shaquille O'Neal]

lebron is right behind kobe at 6 or 7th all time or he's right behind kobe at 3rd all time. both depends on how much you value how a guy dominated an inferior era. and in that case George mikan should also be above both if you have Russell ahead of them

I'm the most fair and honest guy on this board. always have been

I would not argue that. However the question - did he slightly drop after this historically bad season? Reminder: No team picked as conference favorites pre-season has missed the playoffs. They missed the play-in too. Plus 5 total HOF on the team...

[red1]

best 37 year old of all-time


still toss-up 1a 1b status

[red1]

kareem still clinging to that 1b spot

[John_Connor]

I would not argue that. However the question - did he slightly drop after this historically bad season? Reminder: No team picked as conference favorites pre-season has missed the playoffs. They missed the play-in too. Plus 5 total HOF on the team...

I think lebron dropped from possibly ending his career as the goat or passing kobe in most people's minds. so he only lost what he had not yet attained.


had he won a 5th title and gotten that Kareem record there's no doubt people would put him ahead of kobe and then a 6th title with the Kareem record would give people serious consideration at putting him as their goat


but going out in the lottery when you're favored to win it all. nearly leading the league in scoring and not even making a play in tournament. possibly passing Kareem on a losing team next season. sticking at 4 rings. not a good look.


he didn't drop. but his goat case for the future definitely dropped

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Hmm let me see here. I'll just check the Playoff ranking system and oh--


https://i.postimg.cc/j5xHFvqz/Le7631._Unbreakable.png




Yep, still unbreakable. Still top 1. Thanks for playing.


No context here though. I'll provide some, since you don't seem particularly bright.

Fact: Lebron came straight ouf of high school. Kareem/Jordan played 3+ years of college (and won chips there too).
Fact: Some of the all-time greats didn't have 53 playoff rounds of 7 games. In 2003 they still had a best of 5 first round after Jordan retired, and no first round AT ALL before 1975. Think about that.
Fact: Requiring 7 games to get past juggernauts like the Raptors and Pacers will make someone pile up stats and points right?
Fact: They don't give the "scoring champ" the title from most points. It's ALWAYS per. 30PPG beats 27.
Fact: 0 buzzer beating / game tying shots in the finals out of 8 tries. ZERO POINT ZERO.

Also, thanks for proving my point for me. To have high playoff totals and still only 4 rings going into year 20 really means he stunk it up more than he won.
Much appreciated. Class is over now son.

[RRR3]

Anyone who thinks this season affects LeBron legacy didn’t have him top 10 anyways.

[3ba11]

Anyone who thinks this season affects LeBron legacy didn’t have him top 10 anyways.


A career of underachieving the expectation



* lost with homecourt in 09/10

* fell from preseason favorite to Finals underdog or loser for 6 straight years (11-16')

* 1st preseason favorite to miss Playoffs in 2022

* lottery out West without AD to lead scoring (better brand of ball)

[Shaquille O'Neal]

I think lebron dropped from possibly ending his career as the goat or passing kobe in most people's minds. so he only lost what he had not yet attained.


had he won a 5th title and gotten that Kareem record there's no doubt people would put him ahead of kobe and then a 6th title with the Kareem record would give people serious consideration at putting him as their goat


but going out in the lottery when you're favored to win it all. nearly leading the league in scoring and not even making a play in tournament. possibly passing Kareem on a losing team next season. sticking at 4 rings. not a good look.


he didn't drop. but his goat case for the future definitely dropped

That's a very fair analysis.
I look at this season as just another serious black mark on his resume - along with his utter choke job in 2011, Dwight beating him handily, him walking of the court before it's over, the fake hand cast, the "take my talents to SOUF beach" nonsense, the 2007 finals where he had 8 turnovers per game (probably) and shot way below his season average and got swept. Yeah he was young, but had FOUR full NBA seasons under his belt. Magic won FVMP @ 20 and Kawhi did at 22. Why couldn't LeGED? Also 2014 and the air conditioner and a record margin gentleman's sweep against a 37 year old Duncan (how ironic) doesn't help either.

[John_Connor]

Anyone who thinks this season affects LeBron legacy didn’t have him top 10 anyways.

so you think it didn't hurt his possible future goat case

you think him being an utter failure 3 of his last 4 seasons with only a bubble mickey practice covid tournament as his only success and sticking at 4 rings instead of winning a title to get 1 closer to MJ didn't hurt his legacy at all?

[Shaquille O'Neal]

A career of underachieving the expectation


* lost with homecourt in 09/10

* fell from preseason favorite to Finals underdog or loser for 6 straight years (11-16')

* 1st preseason favorite to miss Playoffs in 2022

* lottery out West without AD to lead scoring (better brand of ball)


4 rings, but he's missed the playoffs completely 4 times and bounced in the first round last year. So he's gotten knocked out of the first round or earlier more times than he's won the chip. And two of those were bailout shots by teammates; the other two were strike-shortened seasons.

And morons think he has a GOAT case. I don't have a top 5 case for him.

[HoopsNY]

best 37 year old of all-time


still toss-up 1a 1b status

What about Karl Malone? He put up 23/8/5/1/1 on 50% in arguably the greatest defensive year ever against elite competition at his position, leading his team to 53 wins in an insanely stacked conference.

7 teams won 50 or more games in the western conference that year. And Utah had the 3rd highest SRS that year. I'm taking 37 year old Malone over 37 year old LeBron, especially when Malone could play defense.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

So far it's a consensus #6-#10th in the voting. And he's still an active player. Imagine 20 years from now.

#Le14thbron.:lol

[Shaquille O'Neal]

What about Karl Malone? He put up 23/8/5/1/1 on 50% in arguably the greatest defensive year ever against elite competition at his position, leading his team to 53 wins in an insanely stacked conference.

7 teams won 50 or more games in the western conference that year. And Utah had the 3rd highest SRS that year. I'm taking 37 year old Malone over 37 year old LeBron, especially when Malone could play defense.

Malone was a beast. In 1997 & 98 I always rooted for that Jazz team because I got sick of Mike winning it every year. It's true.

[3ba11]

so you think it didn't hurt his possible future goat case

you think him being an utter failure 3 of his last 4 seasons with only a bubble mickey practice covid tournament as his only success and sticking at 4 rings instead of winning a title to get 1 closer to MJ didn't hurt his legacy at all?


Lebron prefers a 1-off ring that decimates a franchise.and rejects the pursuit of many rings (organic dynasty)

He pursues the 1-off because he's a talent-based winner (all-star team strategy) and never learned to win (brand of ball... organic)

[Full Court]

This season didn't change anything in how I rank Lebron. 7-10 are very, very close, and I have him somewhere in there. I do have him just slightly ahead of Kobe though.

[John_Connor]

This season didn't change anything in how I rank Lebron. 7-10 are very, very close, and I have him somewhere in there. I do have him just slightly ahead of Kobe though.

if you have him ahead of kobe then you would have to put him as 2nd all time at the very least cause the only logical reason to lower lebron to 7th is if you're taking into account his fragile mentality, beta tendencies, colluding, bail outs, lack of post game, lack of consistency on defense for most of his career, lack of footwork, lack of mid range, lack of leadership and lack of free throw shooting or confidence to close games


it's impossible to discredit lebron without putting him below kobe because if you gave him full credit for everything he's done he's logically top 2 all time behind MJ or 3rd behind Kareem

but that's for retards like 1987lakers

[Shaquille O'Neal]

This season didn't change anything in how I rank Lebron. 7-10 are very, very close, and I have him somewhere in there. I do have him just slightly ahead of Kobe though.

Very fair sir. Thanks.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

What about Karl Malone? He put up 23/8/5/1/1 on 50% in arguably the greatest defensive year ever against elite competition at his position, leading his team to 53 wins in an insanely stacked conference.

7 teams won 50 or more games in the western conference that year. And Utah had the 3rd highest SRS that year. I'm taking 37 year old Malone over 37 year old LeBron, especially when Malone could play defense.

He didn't have the best postseason, but played young Dirk to a statistical draw.

Might have played better if you're accounting for defense.

You make a good point either way. With context, Malone at 37 was just as impactful. If not more so.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

if you have him ahead of kobe then you would have to put him as 2nd all time at the very least cause the only logical reason to lower lebron to 7th is if you're taking into account his fragile mentality, beta tendencies, colluding, bail outs, lack of post game, lack of consistency on defense for most of his career, lack of footwork, lack of mid range, lack of leadership and lack of free throw shooting or confidence to close games


it's impossible to discredit lebron without putting him below kobe because if you gave him full credit for everything he's done he's logically top 2 all time behind MJ or 3rd behind Kareem

but that's for retards like 1987lakers

If both Kobe and Lebron were identical players in a vacuum, what you said is true. They didn't even play the same position, and while Kobe has more rings, he has a different entire set of reasons he's not #2 (obvious being the other players I mentioned earlier). The 2004 Finals chuckfest ruining Shaq's brilliant performances / domination. The 2008 40 pt loss to the Celtics with Pau. 2011 sweep from Dallas, waiving off Malone's screen in the 1998 all-star game started it for me. Plus he's just a poor man's Jordan clone, and about 80% of the player MJ was. One could have put AI, TMAC, or any other good 2 guard from 1999-2002 and won those 3 rings - Shaq was just that dominant. He wasn't "1A" like the revisionists like to say, and no one was saying that 22 years ago. Hell Austin Croshere outscored him in the 2000 finals for Christ's sake. But he was a killer. Hated the kid but respected him. I don't respect "take my talents to SOUF beach" at all.

[Full Court]

if you have him ahead of kobe then you would have to put him as 2nd all time at the very least cause the only logical reason to lower lebron to 7th is if you're taking into account his fragile mentality, beta tendencies, colluding, bail outs, lack of post game, lack of consistency on defense for most of his career, lack of footwork, lack of mid range, lack of leadership and lack of free throw shooting or confidence to close games


it's impossible to discredit lebron without putting him below kobe because if you gave him full credit for everything he's done he's logically top 2 all time behind MJ or 3rd behind Kareem

but that's for retards like 1987lakers

No, his accomplishments put him in the top ten. His epic chokes, beta tendencies, colluding, and lack of clutch make him closer to ten than closer to one.

Kobe wasn't even the alpha on his team for three of his five rings. I can't in good conscience rank him above Lebron.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

He didn't have the best postseason, but played young Dirk to a statistical draw.

Might have played better if you're accounting for defense.

You make a good point either way. With context, Malone at 37 was just as impactful. If not more so.

Agree 100%. Just making a playoff at all in a "top 8 get in" year is far better than 11th best in the Western conference. Hell by 2022 rules Jordan would've made the play-in in 2002/2003 - the Wizards were 10th both years. 0 teammate all-stars or future HOF players on those teams. But I digress.

[Full Court]

If both Kobe and Lebron were identical players in a vacuum, what you said is true. They didn't even play the same position, and while Kobe has more rings, he has a different entire set of reasons he's not #2 (obvious being the other players I mentioned earlier). The 2004 Finals chuckfest ruining Shaq's brilliant performances / domination. The 2008 40 pt loss to the Celtics with Pau. 2011 sweep from Dallas, waiving off Malone's screen in the 1998 all-star game started it for me. Plus he's just a poor man's Jordan clone, and about 80% of the player MJ was. One could have put AI, TMAC, or any other good 2 guard from 1999-2002 and won those 3 rings - Shaq was just that dominant. He wasn't "1A" like the revisionists like to say, and no one was saying that 22 years ago. Hell Austin Croshere outscored him in the 2000 finals for Christ's sake. But he was a killer. Hated the kid but respected him. I don't respect "take my talents to SOUF beach" at all.

And all this^

Spot on.

I don't see how there's a good argument for ranking Kobe ahead of Shaq.

[John_Connor]

No, his accomplishments put him in the top ten. His epic chokes, beta tendencies, colluding, and lack of clutch make him closer to ten than closer to one.

Kobe wasn't even the alpha on his team for three of his five rings. I can't in good conscience rank him above Lebron.

except kobe was the alpha for all 5 rings. because when the pressure was on vs Portland and shaq wet the bed in game 7 kobe had to save the day. then kobe had to carry shaq past Duncan the next 2 years because shaq can't beat the spurs as the lead dog. he never could


shaq was the alpha vs indy, jersey and Philly. big f*ckin deal lol

[sdot_thadon]

Agree 100%. Just making a playoff at all in a "top 8 get in" year is far better than 11th best in the Western conference. Hell by 2022 rules Jordan would've made the play-in in 2002/2003 - the Wizards were 10th both years. 0 teammate all-stars or future HOF players on those teams. But I digress.

Bro, Mj missed the playoffs in the worst Eastern conference ever. This shouldn't ever, ever, ever, ever be used in an argument you'd Iike to win.

And nah Lebron actually became goat for me due to this retard-a-thon of thread.

*just look at the post above mine :lol

[HoopsNY]

He didn't have the best postseason, but played young Dirk to a statistical draw.

Might have played better if you're accounting for defense.

You make a good point either way. With context, Malone at 37 was just as impactful. If not more so.

True, but the Lakers didn't even make the playoffs. Still and all, with bad efficiency, Malone was something like 28/9/4/1/1. Can't overlook a 50+ win season in an insanely stacked conference that had peak Shaq, Wallace, Webber, KG, Duncan, and Dirk. It's insane to think Malone even got that far.

[Full Court]

except kobe was the alpha for all 5 rings. because when the pressure was on vs Portland and shaq wet the bed in game 7 kobe had to save the day. then kobe had to carry shaq past Duncan the next 2 years because shaq can't beat the spurs as the lead dog. he never could


shaq was the alpha vs indy, jersey and Philly. big f*ckin deal lol

I disagree. But rankings are entirely subjective, so everyone's going to rack and stack differently.

[Spurs m8]

6-10 is the general consensus for LeBarry

Good to see this poll confirm that as well

[Baller789]

Bro, Mj missed the playoffs in the worst Eastern conference ever. This shouldn't ever, ever, ever, ever be used in an argument you'd Iike to win.

And nah Lebron actually became goat for me due to this retard-a-thon of thread.

*just look at the post above mine :lol

Terrible argument.

How many hall of famers does Lebron have?
How many did Jordan have?

Too easy. :pimp:

[Shaquille O'Neal]

https://twitter.com/NBAMemes/status/758852067481878528/photo/1

[sdot_thadon]

Terrible argument.

How many hall of famers does Lebron have?
How many did Jordan have?

Too easy. :pimp:

Guess one terrible argument deserves an even worse one?? Show me a post before he was Lebron's teammate where you say Russ was any kind of good and I'll take that point. But that still doesn't change the fact that Mj missed the playoffs in the weakest east ever.

[Baller789]

Guess one terrible argument deserves an even worse one?? Show me a post before he was Lebron's teammate where you say Russ was any kind of good and I'll take that point. But that still doesn't change the fact that Mj missed the playoffs in the weakest east ever.

Not really. Your take is terrible and disingeneous.

No one on that Bulls team is even as good as Westbrook, Melo, Howard and AD.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

except kobe was the alpha for all 5 rings. because when the pressure was on vs Portland and shaq wet the bed in game 7 kobe had to save the day. then kobe had to carry shaq past Duncan the next 2 years because shaq can't beat the spurs as the lead dog. he never could


shaq was the alpha vs indy, jersey and Philly. big f*ckin deal lol

Post Shaq's and Kobe's Finals numbers for 2000, 2001, 2002 please. Points, rebounds, assists, FG%.
Only someone not alive as an adult in 2000 (I was 27) would ever think now Kobe was the alpha in 2000-2002. He just wasn't.

Edit here's the finals numbers. And before you "doth protest too much" you scoff at Indiana and Jersey? Uhm, those were the final opponents from 2000-2002. So, kind of a silly argument, no?

Shaq 2000 Finals:
38.0 points, 16.7 rebounds and 2.7 blocks on 61.1%

Kobe 2000:
15.6 points, 4.6 rebounds and 4.2 assists on 36.7% FG.

Shaq 2001:
33.0 points, 15.8 rebounds and 4.8 assists, 57.3% FG.

Kobe 2001:
24.6 points, 7.8 rebounds and 5.8 assists on 41.5%

Shaq 2002:
36.3 points, 12.3 rebounds and 3.8 assists on 59.5%

Kobe 2002:
26.8 points, 5.8 rebounds and 5.3 assists on 51.4%

Some "alpha"! LOL

For fun, here's 2004:

Shaq: 26.6 points, 10.8 rebounds and 1.6 assists on 63.1%
Kobe: 22.6 points, 4.4 assists and 2.8 rebounds on 38.1%


LOL @ "1A/1B". Fugg outta here. It was Shaq's team, period.

"Except Kobe was the alpha for all 5 rings". Only on ISH. I watched every game of the playoffs and finals all 3 years live. No wait, I did have a Tivo series 1 in 2000.

[John_Connor]

Post Shaq's and Kobe's Finals numbers for 2000, 2001, 2002 please. Points, rebounds, assists, FG%.
Only someone not alive as an adult in 2000 (I was 27) would ever think now Kobe was the alpha in 2000-2002. He just wasn't.

Edit here's the finals numbers. And before you "doth protest too much" you scoff at Indiana and Jersey? Uhm, those were the final opponents from 2000-2002. So, kind of a silly argument, no?

Shaq 2000 Finals:
38.0 points, 16.7 rebounds and 2.7 blocks on 61.1%

Kobe 2000:
15.6 points, 4.6 rebounds and 4.2 assists on 36.7% FG.

Shaq 2001:
33.0 points, 15.8 rebounds and 4.8 assists, 57.3% FG.

Kobe 2001:
24.6 points, 7.8 rebounds and 5.8 assists on 41.5%

Shaq 2002:
36.3 points, 12.3 rebounds and 3.8 assists on 59.5%

Kobe 2002:
26.8 points, 5.8 rebounds and 5.3 assists on 51.4%

Some "alpha"! LOL

For fun, here's 2004:

Shaq: 26.6 points, 10.8 rebounds and 1.6 assists on 63.1%
Kobe: 22.6 points, 4.4 assists and 2.8 rebounds on 38.1%


LOL @ "1A/1B". Fugg outta here. It was Shaq's team, period.

"Except Kobe was the alpha for all 5 rings". Only one ISH. I watched every game of the playoffs and finals all 3 years live. No wait, I did have a Tivo series 1 in 2000.


the amazing "finals" stats shaq got weren't the real finals. the Pacers were the 2nd best team the Lakers faced in 2000. Kobe was the finals mvp for saving game 7


the sixers were the 3rd best team the Lakers faced in 2001 and only stole a game cause the Lakers didn't play for like 2 weeks

and the Nets were possibly the 4th best team the Lakers faced in 2002


kobe was the finals mvp in 2000 for saving shaqs ass

kobe was the finals mvp in 2001 for dominating the spurs and kings

and kobe was the finals mvp or at the very least co mvp for dominating the spurs and playing with food poisoning vs Sacramento and holding his own


shaq has always been a beta that got shook under high pressure moments. the 2006 finals cemented it. he averaged 13 points in those finals and Alonzo played more important minutes for the heat in 4th quarters


shaq shit the bed in 1995 too. he underachieved in 1996. he choked hard his first 3 years in LA. he admittedly got fat and stopped trying till the playoffs after his first title. he sabotaged the Lakers telling kobe he couldn't win without him. he's top 10 but no way is he ahead of kobe and no way would he have a single ring without Kobe and wade carrying him vs the best teams every single time

[John_Connor]

another thing. Derek Fisher coulda took the most shots vs new Jersey and the Lakers still sweep those bums.


and if they just gave kobe the green light vs the sixers they still win in 5 or 6.



shaqs finals were just them picking on inferior teams. they didn't NEED to feed shaq so much. it was less competitive than the covid bubble finals tbh

[1987_Lakers]

Post Shaq's and Kobe's Finals numbers for 2000, 2001, 2002 please. Points, rebounds, assists, FG%.
Only someone not alive as an adult in 2000 (I was 27) would ever think now Kobe was the alpha in 2000-2002. He just wasn't.

Edit here's the finals numbers. And before you "doth protest too much" you scoff at Indiana and Jersey? Uhm, those were the final opponents from 2000-2002. So, kind of a silly argument, no?

Shaq 2000 Finals:
38.0 points, 16.7 rebounds and 2.7 blocks on 61.1%

Kobe 2000:
15.6 points, 4.6 rebounds and 4.2 assists on 36.7% FG.

Shaq 2001:
33.0 points, 15.8 rebounds and 4.8 assists, 57.3% FG.

Kobe 2001:
24.6 points, 7.8 rebounds and 5.8 assists on 41.5%

Shaq 2002:
36.3 points, 12.3 rebounds and 3.8 assists on 59.5%

Kobe 2002:
26.8 points, 5.8 rebounds and 5.3 assists on 51.4%

Some "alpha"! LOL

For fun, here's 2004:

Shaq: 26.6 points, 10.8 rebounds and 1.6 assists on 63.1%
Kobe: 22.6 points, 4.4 assists and 2.8 rebounds on 38.1%


LOL @ "1A/1B". Fugg outta here. It was Shaq's team, period.

"Except Kobe was the alpha for all 5 rings". Only on ISH. I watched every game of the playoffs and finals all 3 years live. No wait, I did have a Tivo series 1 in 2000.


Well, your original topic is flat out dumb, but I 100% agree with this post.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Griffin being delusional as hell. :lol Nothing's changed there...well, except the new account.

[John_Connor]

Well, your original topic is flat out dumb, but I 100% agree with this post.

people rip on kobe for dropping 81 on the Raptors and say his 62 in 3 quarters was better. why? competition


shaq beating up on the Leastern conference finals rep that most of the time wouldn't even make the conference finals out west isn't impressive. it simply isn't. those finals mvps are worthless

kobe carried LA every time they faced the spurs .. even in 1999 he was better against them. even 2004 when kobe wasn't at his best he dominated the spurs. but especially in 2001 and 2002. and saved shaq vs Portland in gane 7. shaq goes down as the biggest choker of all time if the blazers won that game and went to the finals. kobe saved his legacy. period


stop acting like backdoor sweeping the 76ers and sweeping the Nets is impressive.


il say it again.. the Lakers bubble title over the heat was more competitive

[John_Connor]

Griffin being delusional as hell. :lol Nothing's changed there...well, except the new account.

shaq admitted kobe carried him to the finals in 2001 and 2002 in their sit down 1 on 1 interview. he literally said he didn't try after that first title and got fat and lazy. he dominated ONE SERIES each year for his 2nd and 3rd titles. why do people ignore that shit

derek fisher called kobe the real mvp of 2001

[Axe]

But that still doesn't change the fact that Mj missed the playoffs in the weakest east ever.
Looks like somebody thought jordan was still on the bulls when that happened. Thus, it's truly ironic when he calls your take 'terrible and disingenuous'. :lol

[red1]

What about Karl Malone? He put up 23/8/5/1/1 on 50% in arguably the greatest defensive year ever against elite competition at his position, leading his team to 53 wins in an insanely stacked conference.

7 teams won 50 or more games in the western conference that year. And Utah had the 3rd highest SRS that year. I'm taking 37 year old Malone over 37 year old LeBron, especially when Malone could play defense.

lebron was top-2 in scoring this year. you can blame him for agreeing to the westbrook trade you cant say he didnt ball. he had two 50-point games in the same week and would have had more chances to shine if his team wasnt down 20 points in the first quarter of every game.

[red1]

Not really. Your take is terrible and disingeneous.

No one on that Bulls team is even as good as Westbrook, Melo, Howard and AD.

how good were melo howard westbrook and non-playing AD this year? tell me about it. :oldlol:

[ImKobe]

shaq admitted kobe carried him to the finals in 2001 and 2002 in their sit down 1 on 1 interview. he literally said he didn't try after that first title and got fat and lazy. he dominated ONE SERIES each year for his 2nd and 3rd titles. why do people ignore that shit

derek fisher called kobe the real mvp of 2001

Shaq himself said that Kobe was the best player in the world in 2001.

https://twitter.com/kobehighlight/status/1439620230557233152?

Shaq was MDE, Kobe was the best all-around player at the time though because he ran the offense and was the closer and got them through the real NBA Finals (Spurs) in those seasons.

[John_Connor]

Shaq himself said that Kobe was the best player in the world in 2001.

https://twitter.com/kobehighlight/status/1439620230557233152?

Shaq was MDE, Kobe was the best all-around player at the time though because he ran the offense and was the closer and got them through the real NBA Finals (Spurs) in those seasons.

shaq was MDE as long as his mental state was ok. but had a beta mentality under high pressure situations. Phil called a timeout in game 7 vs Portland and told the team to literally "forget about shaq"


then they went on that run and came back to win

[1987_Lakers]

"But Shaq said this and Fisher said that" :oldlol:

Bunch of dummies not smart enough to realize it's just a bunch of teammates just being nice to each other.

Almost everybody knows Shaq was the best player on those teams.

[Axe]

"But Shaq said this and Fisher said that" :oldlol:

Bunch of dummies not smart enough to realize it's just a bunch of teammates just being nice to each other.

Almost everybody knows Shaq was the best player on those teams.
Even the zenmaster phil jackson can testify about this too.

[1987_Lakers]

Even the zenmaster phil jackson can testify about this too.

He basically wrote a book about it.

[ImKobe]

"But Shaq said this and Fisher said that" :oldlol:

Bunch of dummies not smart enough to realize it's just a bunch of teammates just being nice to each other.

Almost everybody knows Shaq was the best player on those teams.

Even Phil said that Kobe was the best all-around player he had coached in 2001. There's no doubt about Shaq's dominance in the paint but he was a very limited player who needed someone to get him the ball and close the games for him. Kobe being the best player in '01 isn't a stretch. Their stats were really close in the POs, and that's with the huge gap Shaq had in the Finals because of the favorable match-up. Kobe had the better RAPM/WS numbers and was the best clutch player in the league in '01 Playoffs.

This is what ESPN was reporting in 2001


So who's the better all-around player, Kobe Bryant or Michael Jordan?

One might want to ask Phil Jackson since he's the only one to coach both players.
Comparing the two players, the current Lakers and former Chicago Bulls coach said Saturday that Bryant has demonstrated a better all-around game than any other player he has coached -- including Michael Jordan.
"Kobe's become the floor leader of a basketball team that was kind of looking for that nature of a player, who could not only be a scorer, but also be a playmaker or consistently make big plays at critical times," Jackson said. "So it was very important for Kobe to step into that role that he was envisioned at. I've always held the bar up very high for Kobe, and he's not only reached that bar, but he's jumping over the top of it right now.
"And I think it's the best that I've ever seen a player of mine play with an overall court game. I'm asking him to do so much, and he's accomplishing it."
Jackson was quickly asked for a clarification. That includes Michael Jordan?
"I never asked Michael to be a playmaker," Jackson said. "That's the greatest player that I've ever had, that I could consider the greatest player in the game, and I never asked him to be a playmaker in those terms. I asked him to be playmaker when he was doubled or tripled. But Kobe has to set up the offense, to advance the ball, to read the defense, to make other players happy, and he's doing a great job of that."

[1987_Lakers]

Even Phil said that Kobe was the best all-around player he had coached in 2001. There's no doubt about Shaq's dominance in the paint but he was a very limited player who needed someone to get him the ball and close the games for him. Kobe being the best player in '01 isn't a stretch. Their stats were really close in the POs, and that's with the huge gap Shaq had in the Finals because of the favorable match-up. Kobe had the better RAPM/WS numbers and was the best clutch player in the league in '01 Playoffs.

This is what ESPN was reporting in 2001

This is what how he really felt...

“Kobe's defense, to be accurate, has faltered in recent years, despite his presence on the league's all-defensive team. The voters have been seduced by his remarkable athleticism and spectacular steals, but he hasn't played sound, fundamental defense. - Phil Jackson

[Axe]

He basically wrote a book about it.
Yep, i've read that one before. Even mentioned kobe never wanted to be a 'scottie pippen' by shaq's side.

[ImKobe]

This is what how he really felt...

“Kobe's defense, to be accurate, has faltered in recent years, despite his presence on the league's all-defensive team. The voters have been seduced by his remarkable athleticism and spectacular steals, but he hasn't played sound, fundamental defense. - Phil Jackson

That's in 2004, after Kobe played a whole season while hurt and clearly did not have the same impact on offense. Yes, he wasn't as good in '04 while in '03 he was clearly playing his best basketball while Shaq was already hurting the team on defense already.

[1987_Lakers]

Lakers record without Kobe in 2000-2004: 33-16
Lakers record without Shaq in 2000-2004: 25-31

:lol

[Axe]

That's in 2004, after Kobe played a whole season while hurt and clearly did not have the same impact on offense. Yes, he wasn't as good in '04 while in '03 he was clearly playing his best basketball while Shaq was already hurting the team on defense already.
Well, if he's really hurt, then why did he try to be the alpha of their team when he still got shaq by his side who was already a 3x finals mvp bt?

[ImKobe]

Well, if he's really hurt, then why did he try to be the alpha of their team when he still got shaq by his side who was already a 3x finals mvp bt?

Because he was the alpha on the team. Shaq was washed by '04, which is why he could barely get 20 points a game that year and he quickly declined to being a 13 ppg player in the Finals in Miami.

[ImKobe]

Lakers record without Kobe in 2000-2004: 33-16
Lakers record without Shaq in 2000-2004: 25-31

:lol

Shaq & Phil tell you that Kobe's the best player in '01

"but but what about the RS W/L records from 00-04!! here's what Phil said about Kobe after '04!!!"

What does that have to do with Kobe being the best player in the 2001 Playoffs? Didn't Phil run back to Kobe just 1 year after trashing him, despite KB being on a bad team? I wonder why.

[Axe]

Because he was the alpha on the team. Shaq was washed by '04, which is why he could barely get 20 points a game that year and he quickly declined to being a 13 ppg player in the Finals in Miami.
So it's ppg all over again rofl. :yaohappy:

And after shipping shaq to south beach after the 04 finals, the lakers suddenly missed the playoffs for the first time in a decade too.

[ImKobe]

So it's ppg all over again rofl :yaohappy:

Shaq was washed and Kobe was hurt, but that's not the point here. Argue against KB being the best player in the 2001 Playoffs or shut the **** up.

[Axe]

Shaq was washed and Kobe was hurt, but that's not the point here. Argue against KB being the best player in the 2001 Playoffs or shut the **** up.
Well, both men played a total of 16 games that time. But..

Shaq ppg average in 2001 playoffs: 30.4
Kobe ppg average in 2001 playoffs: 29.4

Oof shaq is still ahead by a mere 1.0 ppg that year. :roll:

[John_Connor]

Lakers record without Kobe in 2000-2004: 33-16
Lakers record without Shaq in 2000-2004: 25-31

:lol

you know we had this discussion a million times. it's not fair to replace shaq with Travis knight, Greg foster and jelani Mccoy. Shaq had great backups for Kobe and others who could step into his role in the starting lineup to be a really good team without him. Kobe is what put them over the top and saved shaq in tough times. they never planned on a backup for shaq

it's a low IQ argument.

[John_Connor]

Shaq ppg average in 2001 playoffs: 30.4
Kobe ppg average in 2001 playoffs: 29.4

Oof shaq is still ahead by a mere 1.0 ppg that year. :roll:

yeah because of shaqs finals vs a bubble quality finals team. what was their averages before that and who eviscerated the spurs and kings

shaq = 3 time bubble'esq finals mvp

[ImKobe]

Shaq ppg average in 2001 playoffs: 30.4
Kobe ppg average in 2001 playoffs: 29.4

Oof shaq is still ahead by a mere 1.0 ppg. :roll:

Kobe had the better RAPM, VORP & WS numbers in the POs and was the best clutch player and the best player in 3 of the 4 rounds and Shaq himself at the time said that Kobe was the best player on multiple occasions. Get mad. Oh, and by your argument AD was clearly the best player in 2020 then, since he scored more points than Bran in both RS & Playoffs. Ouch.

[John_Connor]

Kobe had the better RAPM, VORP & WS numbers in the POs and was the best clutch player and the best player in 3 of the 4 rounds and Shaq himself at the time said that Kobe was the best player on multiple occasions. Get mad.

I'd stack up kobes 2001 playoff run with most of Jordan's tbh

[Axe]

Kobe had the better RAPM, VORP & WS numbers in the POs and was the best clutch player and the best player in 3 of the 4 rounds and Shaq himself at the time said that Kobe was the best player on multiple occasions. Get mad.
But who do you think was more efficient during that run too?

Shaq: .555
Kobe: .469

;)

[1987_Lakers]

you know we had this discussion a million times. it's not fair to replace shaq with Travis knight, Greg foster and jelani Mccoy. Shaq had great backups for Kobe and others who could step into his role in the starting lineup to be a really good team without him. Kobe is what put them over the top and saved shaq in tough times. they never planned on a backup for shaq

it's a low IQ argument.

It's a great metric that shows Shaq was easily the most valuable player on the team. Even past prime Shaq made Miami instant title contenders when he joined them in 2005, prime Kobe on the other hand was having a losing season without him that same year.

[ImKobe]

I'd stack up kobes 2001 playoff run with most of Jordan's tbh

Definitely. 29/7/6 while being the best closer in the game in an era where it was even tougher for perimeter players is right up there with most of Jordan's runs.

[John_Connor]

It's a great metric that shows Shaq was easily the most valuable player on the team. Even past prime Shaq made Miami instant title contenders when he joined them in 2005, prime Kobe on the other hand was having a losing season without him that same year.

it's low IQ. stop it. Kobe showed what he could do with a basic soft 18ppg big man as shaqs replacement. nobodies doing shit with jelani Mccoy at starting center at a time when you needed a big man. maybe you could get away with Robert Horry at center in today's cream puff league but not in the early 2000s

[1987_Lakers]

Kobe had the better RAPM, VORP & WS numbers in the POs and was the best clutch player and the best player in 3 of the 4 rounds and Shaq himself at the time said that Kobe was the best player on multiple occasions. Get mad. Oh, and by your argument AD was clearly the best player in 2020 then, since he scored more points than Bran in both RS & Playoffs. Ouch.

WS?? Drexler had higher WS compared to Hakeem in the '95 postseason.

Ouch.

[1987_Lakers]

it's low IQ. stop it. Kobe showed what he could do with a basic soft 18ppg big man as shaqs replacement. nobodies doing shit with jelani Mccoy at starting center at a time when you needed a big man. maybe you could get away with Robert Horry at center in today's cream puff league but not in the early 2000s

Why not? MJ won without a dominant big.

But regardless, you just admitted that Shaq was more valuable than Kobe, which by definition makes him MVP.

[Axe]

yeah because of shaqs finals vs a bubble quality finals team. what was their averages before that and who eviscerated the spurs and kings

shaq = 3 time bubble'esq finals mvp
Lmao what 'bubble quality finals team' are you talking about? 2001 sixers had league mvp in allen iverson and were also the only team to give the lakers a loss during that title run.

[John_Connor]

Why not? MJ won without a dominant big.

But regardless, you just admitted that Shaq was more valuable than Kobe, which by definition makes him MVP.

MJ won with really good bigs. Cartwright and Longley were really talented quality players. and they won with historic team defense. Shaq and kobes Lakers were top heavy and relied on Shaq getting at least 20 even if kobe got 35 or 40. replacing shaqs 27 to 30 with jelani Mccoy or Travis knight wasn't gonna cut it. and the Lakers had a ton of inside/out specialists with no iso game or creative ball handling ability. so they at the very least needed an OK big as his replacement.

and btw. you were about 8-10 years old at the time this was going on so can you please leave this conversation. a child's brain can't comprehend anything. I sure can't remember much that went on with the bulls before the 2nd three peat

[John_Connor]

Lmao what 'bubble quality finals team' are you talking about? 2001 sixers had league mvp in allen iverson and were also the only team to give the lakers a loss during that title run.

that 1 loss was from the Lakers taking a 2 week vacation. stop it


this us a joke right. who wins a series between the sixers and spurs or kings. f*ck outa here lmao

[Axe]

that 1 loss was from the Lakers taking a 2 week vacation. stop it


this us a joke right. who wins a series between the sixers and spurs or kings. f*ck outa here lmao
Muh boi, are ya trying to say that their competition before was just a joke? Omfg...

[1987_Lakers]

MJ won with really good bigs. Cartwright and Longley were really talented quality players.

Wtf are you smoking? They were bottom tier starting centers.

[Baller789]

Didn't know Longley and Catwright were high quality and talented NBA centers.

Only in inside hoops.

[CountDracula]

https://i.ibb.co/s9TPBvz/A1-B366-CD-BDA3-4068-86-EE-9-D0-B7-F4-EB80-E.jpg (https://ibb.co/23z6b7H)

https://i.ibb.co/QFZNy3Z/D0-A67891-6-EF9-443-C-A329-790990-B091-FB.jpg (https://ibb.co/WWQym4Q)

https://i.ibb.co/b2ktK20/945290-F4-380-B-472-C-B536-5-DC7-B3-DC3-A72.gif (https://imgbb.com/)

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Well, both men played a total of 16 games that time. But..

Shaq ppg average in 2001 playoffs: 30.4
Kobe ppg average in 2001 playoffs: 29.4

Oof shaq is still ahead by a mere 1.0 ppg that year. :roll:

Yeah, doubt most of the people replying watched these games live as an adult; most are reading box scores or short Youtube clips. Do we not all forgot how Shaq was double and triple teamed? He'd have a guy hop on his arm during an up fake and take him to the rim and the damn ball. Again, stick any skilled 2-guard with those 2000-2002 Lakers and they win all 3. Take Shaq out? Nah bruh. There's a reason he had a much larger impact than a perimeter player - he demanded constant attention and foulded out the bigs on the other teams. He wasn't free to roam; had dudes all over him and still easily out "statted" Kobe through all 3 finals. I'll give you Kobe was the 2nd best player, but it's not a 1A / 1B revisionist history bullshit theory. NO ONE said that back then, and I've been online since '95. It's a false narrative the Kobe sycophants have introduced over the years. It's fine - we get it - Kobe was a tough competitor. I have him over Lebron too. But go back and watch some full games from 2000 & Shaq - I had whatever season pass NBA had even back then with DirecTV. It was almost just not fair.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

https://i.ibb.co/s9TPBvz/A1-B366-CD-BDA3-4068-86-EE-9-D0-B7-F4-EB80-E.jpg (https://ibb.co/23z6b7H)

https://i.ibb.co/QFZNy3Z/D0-A67891-6-EF9-443-C-A329-790990-B091-FB.jpg (https://ibb.co/WWQym4Q)

https://i.ibb.co/b2ktK20/945290-F4-380-B-472-C-B536-5-DC7-B3-DC3-A72.gif (https://imgbb.com/)

I don't know when Magic said this, but it's something Lebron will never have in his trophy case - 5 rings / 5 championship trophies.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

MJ won with really good bigs. Cartwright and Longley were really talented quality players.

Quoted for posterity. Stopped reading at this point. You clearly are smoking the good stuff. Puff puff pass, son. This is right up there with some of the dumbest shit I've ever read on here, and I've been here 16 years. Just...wow.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Well, your original topic is flat out dumb, but I 100% agree with this post.

Fair enough. I try to post things to rile people up. This season still has LeGED in my 8-10 spot all time, and didn't move the needle. I expect and quite frankly used to his shortcomings and letdowns at this point.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

"But Shaq said this and Fisher said that" :oldlol:

Bunch of dummies not smart enough to realize it's just a bunch of teammates just being nice to each other.

Almost everybody knows Shaq was the best player on those teams.

Anyone with connected brain cells know that. Shaq also said yesterday "No one EVER feared Lebron" which of course is true.
While we're on the topic, on Inside the NBA Shaq thought the distance from California to Miami was about the same "flight time" as flying to the moon.
So there's that....

[TheCorporation]

QUOTE: Hmm let me see here. I'll just check the Playoff ranking system and oh--


https://i.postimg.cc/j5xHFvqz/Le7631._Unbreakable.png




Yep, still unbreakable. Still top 1. Thanks for playing.

Guys? Are we done now?

[PeroAntic]

Lebron is cemented #2 or #3 of all time (interchangable with Karim). His rings were against tough teams and that includes the bubble ring which was a challenge on its own. However this is offset by the collusions and other factors (like finals losses), so he isn't and never will be #1 as bronsexuals claim

[Wally450]

Top 2 all time. At worst, top 3.

[Legend248]

you've only ever done a disservice to lebron with your all time playoff points shtick. it just makes lebron look weak


kobe beat 24 teams with 50+ wins to make 7 finals and win 5 titles with 5k points

jordan beat 20 teams with 50+ wins to make 6 finals and win 6 titles with 5k points

lebron beat 14 teams with 50+ wins to make 10 finals from a weak conference and luck out 4 titles from bail outs, colluding, suspensions and bubbles with 7k points from using steroids for more longevity


I have him right behind kobe because most of this shit is meaningless when you simply watch the games. the eye test will tell you that lebron was a notch below kobe and jordan but a notch above bird and magic

he was great. but not the best

This man speaks facts!!! :applause::applause::applause::applause:

[John8204]

MJ fans are weird...Lebron averaged 30PPG and had two hall of famers completely shit the bed this season.

1. MJ
2. Wilt
3. Lebron
4. Bird
5. Kareem
6. Bill Russell
7. Magic
8. Mikan
9. Kobe
10. Oscar
11. Duncan
12. West
13. Moses
14. Dr. J
15. Stockton
16. Curry
17. Hakeem
18. Dirk
19. CPIII
20. Havlicek
21. Pettit
22. Barkley
23. K. Malone
24. Garnett
25. Shaq
26. Baylor
27. Durant
28. Iverson
29. Barry
30. Giannis

It's crazy to me people rip Lebron for his teammates but then look over at Shaq and call the man a top ten player. Lebron won on three different teams with far less talent than Shaq had during his career. Shaq won with two teams and frankly it was a down period of time...he never beat a team as good as the Warriors. As for this season when talking all-timers I would go

1. Lebron
2. Curry
3. CPIII
4. Durant
5. Giannis
6. Leonard
7. Harden

[Axe]

MJ fans are weird...Lebron averaged 30PPG and had two hall of famers completely shit the bed this season.

1. MJ
2. Wilt
3. Lebron
4. Bird
5. Kareem
6. Bill Russell
7. Magic
8. Mikan
9. Kobe
10. Oscar
11. Duncan
12. West
13. Hakeem
14. Moses
15. Stockton
16. Curry
17. Dr. J
18. Dirk
19. CPIII
20. Havlicek
21. Pettit
22. Barkley
23. K. Malone
24. Garnett
25. Shaq
26. Baylor
27. Durant
28. Iverson
29. Barry
30. Giannis

It's crazy to me people rip Lebron for his teammates but then look over at Shaq and call the man a top ten player. Lebron won on three different teams with far less talent than Shaq had during his career. Shaq won with two teams and frankly it was a down period of time...he never beat a team as good as the Warriors. As for this season when talking all-timers I would go

1. Lebron
2. Curry
3. CPIII
4. Durant
5. Giannis
6. Leonard
7. Harden
Wilt a spot ahead of LeKong? Are you serious? :yaohappy:

[John8204]

Wilt a spot ahead of kong? Are you serious? :yaohappy:

Yes...Wilt is the best center and set more unbreakable records than anyone else. I would take Wilt over Jordan and Lebron if they played one on one

[TheMan]

6-10 is the general consensus for LeBarry

Good to see this poll confirm that as well

Some jackasses here a few months back said I shouldn't be taken seriously when I said LeBron was 7th on my list with a decent shot of maybe cracking top 5 when he retires. Obviously a big black mark like this season won't help but yeah, looks we're the consensus and those that have in out of the top 10 and those who have him as GOAT (lol) are the fringe.

:cheers:

[ClipperRevival]

Voted 3-5.

Recency bias. Plus the fact that past greats spent time in college which makes Bron's longevity numbers look much better. If KAJ goes straight to the pros right out of HS, Bron ain't close to sniffing the points totals. Not to mention, no other great got to pick his teams for 12 straight years. Still 4/19.

[kawhileonard2]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2021_preseason_odds.html (Lakers 1st) - lost in round 1
https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2022_preseason_odds.html (Lakers 2nd) - didn't make the playoffs

[BarberSchool]

As a profound critic of Raymone:

He’s top ten. Always will be.

He just has more embarrassing tasteless garbage cheating flopping and all manor of roastable bullsh!t than any other player in the top 25.

If LeBron hangs out in the same room as a dozen other top 25 players, he gets roasted the worst of all of them, and has to sit there and take it, or get a gang beat down from a dozen old men.

Believe that.

[Lebron23]

Still in my eyes the greatest player of all time

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Still in my eyes the greatest player of all time
How many seasons have you been watching basketball? What's he the greatest at exactly? He's only had a couple of years in the last 20 where you could safely argue he was the best in the league. Early on Kobe was clearly better, then you could debate years with Steph, KD, Kawhi, etc.
The best ever was hands down the best in the league from about 1987-1998. Most skilled, killer moves, grit, never lost in the championship round, best 2 way player. The best can't ever be a guy who lost 60% of the time in the finals. Don't confuse size and strength with actual basketball skills. Take away the steroids, the collusions, the stiff-arms / spin move and what do you have? Poor free throw, average 3 point shooter, poor rebounder for his size, late game scared of the GD basketball.

[RogueBorg]

How many seasons have you been watching basketball? What's he the greatest at exactly? He's only had a couple of years in the last 20 where you could safely argue he was the best in the league. Early on Kobe was clearly better, then you could debate years with Steph, KD, Kawhi, etc.
The best ever was hands down the best in the league from about 1987-1998. Most skilled, killer moves, grit, never lost in the championship round, best 2 way player. The best can't ever be a guy who lost 60% of the time in the finals. Don't confuse size and strength with actual basketball skills. Take away the steroids, the collusions, the stiff-arms / spin move and what do you have? Poor free throw, average 3 point shooter, poor rebounder for his size, late game scared of the GD basketball.
:applause::applause: well said

[OrlandoMagicGuy]

-2011 Finals Meltdown

-6 losses in the Finals

-Only won 1 championship for Cleveland

-Team hopped to other franchises when things weren't going his way leaving the team he was previously on in shambles

-Has been a very lazy defender since leaving Miami (Was literally pushed by Kyle Kuzma to play defense)

-A well known stat padder

-Played with the most hall of famers in NBA history

-An alleged PED user

-Never perfected his jumpshot/post game

-All 4 of his championships were bought

-Isn't a leader

-Weak eastern conference competition compared to Kobe's western conference competition

-Missed the playoffs 4 times

-Is a mental midget in the 4th quarter

-Got Draymond suspended for a game during the 2016 Finals

-Quit on his Lakers team and walked off the court during the playoffs

-Let the opposing small forward win finals MVP 4 times (Kawhi/Iguodala/Durant 2x)

-He isn't that competitive

He is no longer in the top 10!!

---------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd take any of these players to build a team around over LeFraud anyday

-Jordan
-Wilt
-Kareem
-Bird
-Hakeem
-Kobe
-Duncan
-Shaq
-Magic
-Dr.J
-Barkley

[Full Court]

Wilt a spot ahead of LeKong? Are you serious? :yaohappy:

Wilt is definitely ahead of Bronie on the all time list.

[Full Court]

Some jackasses here a few months back said I shouldn't be taken seriously when I said LeBron was 7th on my list with a decent shot of maybe cracking top 5 when he retires. Obviously a big black mark like this season won't help but yeah, looks we're the consensus and those that have in out of the top 10 and those who have him as GOAT (lol) are the fringe.

:cheers:

Yeah, I have him 7-10. Those in the 7-10 spots are so close they're almost interchangeable. So ranking him 7 is completely reasonable.


As a profound critic of Raymone:

He’s top ten. Always will be.

He just has more embarrassing tasteless garbage cheating flopping and all manor of roastable bullsh!t than any other player in the top 25.

If LeBron hangs out in the same room as a dozen other top 25 players, he gets roasted the worst of all of them, and has to sit there and take it, or get a gang beat down from a dozen old men.

Believe that.

I believe that.

[Spurs m8]

-2011 Finals Meltdown

-6 losses in the Finals

-Only won 1 championship for Cleveland

-Team hopped to other franchises when things weren't going his way leaving the team he was previously on in shambles

-Has been a very lazy defender since leaving Miami (Was literally pushed by Kyle Kuzma to play defense)

-A well known stat padder

-Played with the most hall of famers in NBA history

-An alleged PED user

-Never perfected his jumpshot/post game

-All 4 of his championships were bought

-Isn't a leader

-Weak eastern conference competition compared to Kobe's western conference competition

-Missed the playoffs 4 times

-Is a mental midget in the 4th quarter

-Got Draymond suspended for a game during the 2016 Finals

-Quit on his Lakers team and walked off the court during the playoffs

-Let the opposing small forward win finals MVP 4 times (Kawhi/Iguodala/Durant 2x)

-He isn't that competitive

He is no longer in the top 10!!

---------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd take any of these players to build a team around over LeFraud anyday

-Jordan
-Wilt
-Kareem
-Bird
-Hakeem
-Kobe
-Duncan
-Shaq
-Magic
-Dr.J
-Barkley

And not a word of a lie and no lack of context.

Nothing but cold hard truth...a bron stans worst enemy.

[LeGoat4Life]

Lebron was never in the Top 10 to begin with anyways

The general consensus and people in the real world always have him around top 15.

Only on forum and media that's when Lebron gets talked about top 10